Italian court cases newsfeed

Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:48 am

After 2006 Sonia Marra vanished we have had one of the once per year hearings today, still in the first stage. So far we know she disappeared, but how want "they" know the time of death?
http://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca/marr ... embre.html
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby Grayhawker » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:19 am

european neighbour wrote:After 2006 Sonia Marra vanished we have had one of the once per year hearings today, still in the first stage. So far we know she disappeared, but how want "they" know the time of death?
http://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca/marr ... embre.html


Why couldn't the police pull the tower information to know what area the calls were received near and focus a search in those areas? Also, seems to be a lot of video around town, couldn't they look and see if their suspect was walking in those areas?
Paolo Micheli stated with regard to Amanda and Raffaele: "We do not need evidence, common sense and logic tell us that they dated each other to commit this crime."
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:54 am

A miracle!! Someone (a GUP) is doing his work! No trial without evidence, it shouldn't be a request concert of the prosecution:
http://www.ansa.it/toscana/notizie/2015 ... d145c.html
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby Flipp » Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:40 pm

european neighbour wrote:A miracle!! Someone (a GUP) is doing his work! No trial without evidence, it shouldn't be a request concert of the prosecution:
http://www.ansa.it/toscana/notizie/2015 ... d145c.html

Just like Alberto Stasi. :roll eyes:
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:06 am

Massimo Prati's sarcasm about another miscarriage of justice:
http://albatros-volandocontrovento.blog ... -anni.html
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:42 am

Unfortunately "googliano" doesn't work properly regarding a quarrel between Renzi and ANM, but Renzi mentions also "prescrizione" and a police reform(!):
http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/politic ... 8bb36.html
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:57 am

About prescrizione: "Oltre un milione e mezzo di processi sono finiti in nulla per prescrizione negli ultimi dieci anni."
http://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2014/11 ... i/1241375/
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:35 am

Still about "Diaz" , ECHR just for the record:
http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/cronaca ... 71294.html
How the "criminals" were promoted within the law enforcement:
http://www.umbrialeft.it/notizie/genova ... z%E2%80%9D
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby Flipp » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:24 am

european neighbour wrote:Still about "Diaz" , ECHR just for the record:
http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/cronaca ... 71294.html
How the "criminals" were promoted within the law enforcement:
http://www.umbrialeft.it/notizie/genova ... z%E2%80%9D


From the ECHR English press release:

As regards the investigation, the Court observed that the police officers who had attacked Mr
Cestaro in the Diaz-Pertini school had never been identified. They had not been the subject of an
investigation and had remained unpunished. The Court noted that the failure to identify the actual
perpetrators of the ill-treatment could partly be explained by the objective difficulty of the public
prosecutor’s office in establishing definite identifications but also by a lack of police cooperation.
The Court deplored the fact that the Italian police had refused, with impunity, to provide the
competent authorities with the cooperation necessary for the identification of officers that might
have been involved in acts of torture.


That's it then, if even the judiciary can't control the police, we know who's really in charge.
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby Sarah » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:16 pm

I moved a bunch a posts over to a separate Yara thread. If I missed any please report the posts and I'll move them also.
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:06 am

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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby Grayhawker » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:47 am

Another leap in assumptions that will result in wrong accusations and damage to a person's reputation.

Also back to square one looking for true suspects.

Police should look at friends and family, but there has to be a discernable issue with the person's makeup to suggest they would be a killer. What do those around them say - "impossible" - then strong chance it is impossible.
Paolo Micheli stated with regard to Amanda and Raffaele: "We do not need evidence, common sense and logic tell us that they dated each other to commit this crime."
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby MichaelB » Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:16 pm

.
The stupid things Ergon says - THE BEST OF NASEER AHMAD: "Curatolo's testimony is one of the bedrock foundations of my beliefs in this case."
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Tue May 26, 2015 2:08 am

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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Tue May 26, 2015 5:58 am

Parolisi's "passaggio" in Perugia before going to Strasbourg:
http://www.umbrialeft.it/notizie/omicid ... a-parolisi
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Wed May 27, 2015 9:09 am

european neighbour wrote:Parolisi's "passaggio" in Perugia before going to Strasbourg:
http://www.umbrialeft.it/notizie/omicid ... a-parolisi

Next stage: Cassazione 2
http://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca/paro ... -pena.html
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby roteoctober » Thu May 28, 2015 10:37 am

Just to clarify: the 20 years sentence has been handed down by the Court of Appeal of Perugia, entrusted by Cassation of redetermining the sentence after the ISC, while upholding Parolisi's conviction, had ruled out the aggravating circumstance of cruelty.

Now Parolisi may appeal again to Cassation, even if it will just be a required step before appealing to the ECHR.
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:14 am

Caso Yara: Bossetti was under surveillance two months before his arrest:
http://www.oggi.it/attualita/notizie/20 ... esclusiva/
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby roteoctober » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:54 am

And perhaps from well before then, but only at trial this issue wiil be (again perhaps) clarified.
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:54 am

Alfano about G8/Diaz: "Caso chiuso!", Manconi: "E' tutt'altro che un capitolo chiuso. Non è un mistero che la Corte europea dei diritti umani emetterà altre sentenze simili...."
http://www.today.it/cronaca/alfano-diaz ... 1432045183
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:31 am

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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby roteoctober » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:54 am

They are asking for a reduction of the possibility of appealing to Cassation, a bit like it happens with other SCs around the world.
The first problem is that the Constitution itself should be modified and that is a time consuming and politically not banal task.
The second is that the limitation of appeals to Cassation to cases in which it is necessary to formulate principles of law of general value is vague on the one end and probably too restrictive on the other: it's approximately what is done today by the United Sections.
But if the role of Cassation should be reduced in that way, the number of SC judges should also be shrinked accordingly, and this is surely going to create some issue.

There will probably be some change, but much less upsetting.
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby Grayhawker » Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:00 pm

european neighbour wrote:Cassazione paralysed:
http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/cronaca ... 91b15.html

Maybe Italy could just hire outside companies to handle their court system. Privatise the process. :lol:

Not serious but if the politicians cannot figure it out, maybe turn it all over to a private firm to manage the sitting prosecutors and judges. Reward or penalize them based on the number of EcHR violations or wrongful conviction cases?

Obviously it ain't working and ain't changing anytime soon.

Maybe the EU should assign cases to other countries. The Netherland courts get all the Italian cases. Let the Italians get all the Greek cases until Greece pays back their debt. Yeah, have Italy handle the cases for the nation with the worse economy/national debt. That would scare them to clean house!
Paolo Micheli stated with regard to Amanda and Raffaele: "We do not need evidence, common sense and logic tell us that they dated each other to commit this crime."
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:41 am

Just any case, and I'm not interested in any details but in the proceedings: First acquitted (il fatto non sussiste), now convicted, not yet before Cassazione, but a case from 2008!! The whole system is insane and of big malfunction:
http://www.giornaledellumbria.it/articl ... 29943.html
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby roteoctober » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:36 pm

Given the type of crime and the sentences involved it is possible it ends in prescrizione before Cassation confirms, if they go on with the same speed.

If Cassation confirms at all, since this is really funny.

On first grade they were acquitted because the crime did not exist, now they appear to have been convicted because ... the crime was going to exist but they were caught just a moment before perpetrating it.

Or so it seems from the very concise article.
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:00 am

After two acquittals now ergastolo, 41 anni di indagini e processi:
http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/cronaca ... 7de83.html
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby roteoctober » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:14 am

That has always been a very controversial case, where what we would usually call "evidence" is just part of the picture: the rest is politics and dietrology.

I seriously doubt anyone can be convicted beyond a reasonable doubt in this case, simply because any type of evidence has been muddled since the beginning and often by those who should have collected it.

To think to be able to reach the "truth" more than 40 years later one has to really be pretentious.
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:04 pm

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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby roteoctober » Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:29 am

"The system is falling apart from foundations", that's the point.

Individual cases are just random displays of a deeper, structural deficiency.

But this has not yet been understood enough: we must support the indiduals who are victims of this systemic failures, because they suffer as individuals and for them and their families those "random displays" are the tragedy of a life, however there will be no end to those tragedies if nothing is done to fix the system.
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby Grayhawker » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:57 pm

roteoctober wrote:"The system is falling apart from foundations", that's the point.

Individual cases are just random displays of a deeper, structural deficiency.

But this has not yet been understood enough: we must support the indiduals who are victims of this systemic failures, because they suffer as individuals and for them and their families those "random displays" are the tragedy of a life, however there will be no end to those tragedies if nothing is done to fix the system.

This most be very saddening for you. There are so many tragic cases in the US but we often don't know what happens in our neighboring states, for you, the whole nation knows what is happening.

Keep your hope that a national movement can be birthed.
Paolo Micheli stated with regard to Amanda and Raffaele: "We do not need evidence, common sense and logic tell us that they dated each other to commit this crime."
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:51 am

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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:08 am

Caso Sonja Marra, first verdict sometime:
http://www.umbria24.it/caso-sonia-marra ... 78487.html
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:22 am

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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:19 am

The new president of ANM (Associazione nazionale magistrati) is the "presumption of guilt" guy, Piercamillo Davigo:
http://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2016/04 ... o/2622013/
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby roteoctober » Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:04 am

Not much of a surprise ... the usual names, the usual characters ...
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Fri May 06, 2016 1:38 am

Within Italy Umbria's courts are bad:
http://www.umbria24.it/umbria-processi- ... 98351.html
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby Annella » Fri May 06, 2016 3:27 am

european neighbour wrote:Within Italy Umbria's courts are bad:
http://www.umbria24.it/umbria-processi- ... 98351.html


The page linked google translated....reads OK. https://goo.gl/H5CUQ6
'The Italian concept of judicial truth does not trouble itself with reality; it controls the narrative by controlling the past"
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:02 am

Femminicidio, a reiterated problem of misogyny:
http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/politic ... babfc.html
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:52 am

european neighbour wrote:
european neighbour wrote:Parolisi's "passaggio" in Perugia before going to Strasbourg:
http://www.umbrialeft.it/notizie/omicid ... a-parolisi

Next stage: Cassazione 2
http://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca/paro ... -pena.html

Cassazione confirmed:
http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/topnews ... a2a98.html
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby roteoctober » Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:01 am

The case was briefly treated yesterday evening at the Italian true crime TV show Quarto Grado.

Besides the division between pro innocence and pro guilt commentators, two interconnected things of interest were said:

1) since he has been sentenced to 20 years he will start to go out of prison on leave after having served about 10 years, and since he was jailed in 2011, that will happen in 5 years or so;

2) this may be an application of the Italian informal judicial rule "poca prova, poca pena" ("little evidence, little sentence").
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:29 am

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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:10 am

european neighbour wrote:After 2006 Sonia Marra vanished we have had one of the once per year hearings today, still in the first stage. So far we know she disappeared, but how want "they" know the time of death?
http://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca/marr ... embre.html

More than 5 years of first trial, verdict end of October:
http://www.umbria24.it/finito-il-proces ... 08277.html
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby Numbers » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:42 am

european neighbour wrote:A film about errori giudiziari:
http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/cronaca ... dca88.html


Google translation of the article:

Miscarriages of justice and the history of those who remain victims are the focus of a documentary film entitled "Do not Look Back", born from the idea of two journalists, Benedict Lattanzi and Valentino Maimone, who has been working on this issue and have given life errorigiudiziari.com site, which lists 700 cases. The documentary film, presented at the Pesaro festival and that of Ischia, is directed by Francesco Del Grosso, and revolves around the story of five people who lived through the prison and the process to be innocent, then seeing themselves perform. It investigates the consequences of this experience, which every year in Italy involving hundreds of people over the last 24 years - as is also remembered in the film - over 24,000 ended up in prison as innocent and to compensate the state spent more than 630 million euro.
Expert witness testimony must be the product of reliable principles and methods. {Paraphrase of Fed. Rules of Evidence 702c}
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:12 am

After 18 years in prison declared innocent:
http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2016/0 ... 144175963/
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:32 am

New investigations in the mostro di firenze case, in Tuscany and not in Perugia anymore:
http://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca/nuov ... ducci.html
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby Hans » Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:02 pm

Just for the record (Thanks, roteoctober):
Sent. 1-16 BOSSETTI Massimo-ocr.pdf
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He [Raffaele] is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque caricature that is “Foxy Knoxy”
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby Teddy » Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:47 am


Very worrying these 2 cases.

In the Sonia Marra murder (actually no, the disappearance, as her body was never found), with Bindella the accused, it reads "and despite no traces or specific evidence being found inside the house, it is inevitable that the murderer was the same man who had relations with Sonia. The murderer must be someone who frequented her and she only frequented Bindella". Truly horrifying that they can ruin a person's life based on such insignificant information. The other crime of Bindella is to not be recounting the exact things many years later than he did immediately after the disappearance. Let's see if they find him guilty or not after all these years of investigation and trial.

In the 2nd article about the murder of Ilaria Alpi and Miran Hrovatin, Somalian Hasci Omar Hassan has been cleared after 16 years of imprisonment. It appears he was found guilty based on the testimony of one other Somalian named Gelle who later went on TV (Chi l'ha visto) and admitted he had lied. You can be found guilty based on one person's testimony. According to Wikipedia, the murder occurred in Somalia and Hassan was arrested while in Italy giving evidence on another trial.

Some prosecutors are so desperate to solve a crime that it seems they will go to extreme lengths of speculation to get a conviction. It appears that prosecutors like Mignini are not so rare.
Amanda Knox: "According to Mignini, we found Meredith at the villa and said, Hey, that stupid bitch. Let’s show Meredith. Let’s get her to play a sex game. I was horrified. Who thinks like that?".... indeed, who thinks like that?
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby roteoctober » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:51 am

I have always said is a systemic issue ...

My analysis of the first grade ruling convicting Massimo Bossetti for the murder of Yara Gambirasio:

Reasoning the ruling
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:26 pm

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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:21 am

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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:53 am

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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby roteoctober » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:20 pm

european neighbour wrote:Eleven years and no end in sight:
http://www.ansa.it/piemonte/notizie/201 ... 522dc.html


A paradoxical case of murder in a closed room without a culprit so far, fostered by the procedure followed.

Essentially a toddler is found dead with a strong blow in the back and in the house were present her mother and the fiancé of the latter (who wasn't the father).

A GIP (judge for preliminary investigation) rules that there is not enough evidence to justify a trial against the man but that there is evidence against the woman.

She is tried and definitively acquitted.

Then it is decided that evidence now is enough against the man, but he has now been acquitted on first grade.

There will surely be an appeal: we'll see what comes next.
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:10 am

Teddy wrote:
european neighbour wrote:senza parole:
http://www.umbria24.it/perugia-omicidio ... 18110.html


In the 2nd article about the murder of Ilaria Alpi and Miran Hrovatin, Somalian Hasci Omar Hassan has been cleared after 16 years of imprisonment. It appears he was found guilty based on the testimony of one other Somalian named Gelle who later went on TV (Chi l'ha visto) and admitted he had lied. You can be found guilty based on one person's testimony. According to Wikipedia, the murder occurred in Somalia and Hassan was arrested while in Italy giving evidence on another trial.


Look, Giancarlo Massei! "Sentenza corragiosa" (?!?!?)
http://www.umbria24.it/cronaca/ilaria-a ... sa-perugia
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:09 am

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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby Annella » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:18 am

european neighbour wrote:The next one:
http://www.ansa.it/puglia/notizie/2017/ ... b809d.html


Horrendous enough that someone has spent 20 years in prison for a crime he did not commit, but 10 times worse is that it was because a few words with his wife, in his dialect, were misunderstood!!

Only in Italy.

Totally disgusting.

From a google translation:

Massaro was released from prison yesterday, after the ruling, but has not yet reached his family. The lawyer showed that Massaro had been convicted of a word misunderstood. "A week after the murder, dialoguing with his wife - said the lawyer - had said, in dialect, 'I keep stu muert', but in reality he meant 'muers', that is a bulky material attached to the hook of a car and that was dragging. Then I found a certificate indicating that my client was at Sert when it disappeared Fersurella. in short, a whole series of elements that had not been taken into account. I'm glad to be able to prove the innocence of a person and it is a great satisfaction for him, for his family and for what has been done. "
'The Italian concept of judicial truth does not trouble itself with reality; it controls the narrative by controlling the past"
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:55 am

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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:17 am

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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:52 am

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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:47 am

Do I read correctly? An adopted son is less valuable?
http://www.ansa.it/friuliveneziagiulia/ ... 9753b.html
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:45 am

In addition to the AK main thread about the G8 decision of the ECHR:
http://www.ansa.it/europa/notizie/rubri ... d1bce.html
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:16 am

european neighbour wrote:Il caso Sonia Marra:
http://www.corrieresalentino.it/cronaca ... o-bindella

Bindella assolto. After more than 6 years of (first!) trial, why was there a trial at all:
http://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca/caso ... -2017.html
http://www.umbria24.it/cronaca/sonia-ma ... llomicidio
(The link above to corrieresalentino doesn't work anymore, because the entry I quote is already from 3rd January 2013, the trial began on 7th July 2011!)
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby roteoctober » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:25 pm

european neighbour wrote:Do I read correctly? An adopted son is less valuable?
http://www.ansa.it/friuliveneziagiulia/ ... 9753b.html


According to Cassation, yes.
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Re: Italian court cases newsfeed

Postby european neighbour » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:32 am

european neighbour wrote:Caso Marra,
Bindella assolto. After more than 6 years of (first!) trial, why was there a trial at all:

Enzo Beretta in umbria24: Bindella's lawyers: "...questo processo non doveva proprio iniziare…", and about other problems of the investigations:
http://www.umbria24.it/cronaca/caso-mar ... nquietante
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