Filomena's Computer

Filomena's Computer

Postby MichaelB » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:39 pm

Testimony Excerpts: Romanelli http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Trascrizioni-2009-Feb-7-Romanelli-Battistelli-v-Altieri-Altieri-v-Grande.pdf

p 26

QUESTION - Is not it go away? In her room she left the obviously room in order?
ANSWER - If I'm not mistaken I left just a t-shirt on bed.
QUESTION - And then there were valuables?
ANSWER - Yes, I had jewelry, a laptop computer and then okay, if you can call them value, effects however personal brand, from sunglasses, bags, however items that cost.
QUESTION - Is the computer where it held?
ANSWER - The computer leaned, was inside the enclosure that Also the coast, is a case in fact leads padded computer because the computer sometimes I needed to take it to work, so if I'm not mistaken it ... The I laid up, not lying down.
QUESTION - Always in the room?
ANSWER - Yes, in my room.
QUESTION - And then the jewelry kept them where?
ANSWER - In a nightstand brings joys in the nightstand.


p40-41

ANSWER - Clothes, everything a mess, it was all ruffled, more ...
QUESTION - She said she had left a shirt on bed?
ANSWER - No, no, there was the disaster, there were clothes ...
APPLICATION - For the earth?
ANSWER - Yes, all spread out, there was an open closet, on the desk a mess, it was all out of place.
QUESTION - There were glasses?
ANSWER - Yes.
QUESTION - Li looked good glasses?
ANSWER: - Look beyond the immediacy of a fright I I immediately went to check if there were things valuable.
QUESTION - Yes, of course.
ANSWER - So the first thing was to check that there were the jewels and there and then I said Paola "At least in this if they are not taken," then I tried the computer and I could see from below, then There were sunglasses, as they are branded, and
were on the desk, brand bags were on the ground, but there were so much as I was, frankly I arrived home that already shaking and as I was very nervous As I calmed down and said "Oh my God, however, maybe they have not had time to take anything, because at least these things that are more valuable we are." Taking the computer I realized that raising the I raised my computer glasses, in the sense that the glasses were over things, that was a mixed bag, and then there and then
If I did not pay immediately.
PRESIDENT - I'm sorry that means a mixture?
ANSWER - It was a mixture of glass, clothes, glasses ...
PRESIDENT - So they were also under the glass?
ANSWER - Yes, they were also down, but they were also above.
PRESIDENT - So a mixed bag in this regard.
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
QUESTION - So ...
ANSWER - were also above.
QUESTION - So the glasses were also on clothes, she says also below, also below anand also above, then means that were also under ...
THE PRESIDENT - No, they are two different things, however, remains the registration and then the evaluation of the responses is available to everyone. I pray we can proceed.
APPLICATION - These glasses were on clothes?
ANSWER - I remember them well above the bag computer because I was careful to pull it off because it was all covered with glass, and in fact there and then did not think case immediately, but then we are also talking with Marco commented by saying "It was a surprise addition to the thief the fact that you have not taken anything glasses are also on top of things "is a thief abnormal, but I was there and then still pretty upset, but I said, "Okay, the important thing is that now things are there, things There are important, but what took you wrote, however there are jewels, the computer there, which are the the most important things, then we see the rest, I do not know now if I have to warn immediately before Laura or the lady of the home for the broken window. "


p63-64

QUESTION - Another thing: when she came into this room, I understand, obviously upset because you This was, however, of their own room, all objects in upside down, he said before it was a mixture of glass, glass below and glasses on, she has touched everything, had so to make sure these glasses under glass and above, as we can describe it in detail where these glasses were they?
ANSWER - Then I remember that under the window there was good most of my clothes and my personal effects, piled all over, one above the other, a great deal of confusion, there was a lot of stuff and I overlapped I remember well that there were at the top of the glasses, little ones. I remember lots of windows, over the computer bag and then all the rest on the ground.
QUESTION - There were windows on the ground and above ... Above we realized that there were these glasses, clothing, under the garments were glass?
ANSWER - Yes, because at 18 December 2007 there were returned some personal effects, on some clothes I still got the glasses.
QUESTION - I was interested in a particular course, if you do not has been able to ensure, just to clarify, that there they were glasses on the clothes, she has this satisfied or not?
ANSWER - I remember the glasses on the clothes, I did not investigation, that just are not given to touch them all and how to move them, not that. But I remember well just to the right of the pile that was on the ground were glass, on many computer bag that unless mistake, however, was on the left side of this great pile and many other glass on the ground, the strangeness was that the windows could not stand over the pile in high, that is, they had to be more of everything to the
ground.


p75-76

QUESTION - Okay thank you. She first spoke, when which came into his room, he saw that they were move many things.
ANSWER - Yes.
QUESTION - He also spoke of the computer.
ANSWER - Yes.
APPLICATION - The computer had been moved?
ANSWER - Yes, and moreover, had also been beaten because there took about a year to try to recover the data and back to full operation.
QUESTION - Slammed in what sense?
ANSWER - Slammed that the hard disk was burned, this me said about 5 technicians whom I consulted for try to fix it.
QUESTION - But because he had beaten ...
ANSWER - I was told the hard disk is burned and links, now I do not remember the technical name, you are burned because it is obvious that it has received a shot, they told me that jargon is called a schicchera, that the shot did go in short everything the hard disk.
PRESIDENT - where she had left the computer?
ANSWER - It was near the bed.
PRESIDENT - Top or bottom?
ANSWER - No, I was standing at the bottom, since that was inside a bag rounded, reinforced this beautiful bag computer I had leaning against the bed, the wardrobe.
PRESIDENT - So it was already ...
QUESTION - And compared to the broken glass that she has seen, computer where it was?
ANSWER - I think from the left side, on the left side.
QUESTION - It was far from broken glass?
ANSWER - No, it was in the chaos of the heap, that is in the pile I place it to the left, as for example in the pile I place a blanket on the right.
QUESTION - There were also other objects moved?
ANSWER - My closet was almost completely empty.
QUESTION - I think the camera.
ANSWER - I do not remember if he was on the bedside table or on desk, everything was moved.
QUESTION - This is in reference to the fact that she has returned to His resume these objects, found these objects moved?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, the bag was on the floor ...
QUESTION - Do local mind when she comes November 2, and these items (off microphone) and then I think back to December 19 ...
ANSWER - 18.
QUESTION - December 18 to resume the same.
REPLY - I'm not into the house on December 18, were the men of the police that they gave me, which I gave new things.
QUESTION - Okay thank you.
The stupid things Ergon says - THE BEST OF NASEER AHMAD: "Curatolo's testimony is one of the bedrock foundations of my beliefs in this case."
User avatar
MichaelB
 
Posts: 6172
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:07 pm
Location: Perryville Prison

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby MichaelB » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:44 pm

p77-78

DEFENSE - AVV. THE WIDOW

QUESTION - Carlo Dalla Vedova Defence Knox in crossexamination on all issues that you just reported. I would like to start right from the latter, by the computer, as she knew that the computer had this injury?
ANSWER - So then, when they told us to go away, that we should go to the police station I wanted to recover at least the computer because it was working.
QUESTION - What day are we talking about?
ANSWER - On the 2nd, then I worked in the computer memory There were many acts, I practice in a law firm, then I had done many acts, plans, there was thesis, however, I had all the documents that interested and wanted to take him away from the computer and then I took him in the car if I'm not mistaken Marco Zaroli. But once we got to the police station in I do not know, I do not remember now how it turned out that my computer was in the car of Mark, however, when the police saw it told me that I had to absolutely not leave me there and that I could take. I think it was already evening when I handed, tried to open the computer, do not turn it on and the coach of the Police Headquarters said ...
QUESTION - Are you talking about the evening of 2?
ANSWER - Yes, I had already taken the computer in Marco's car while we were in the police station was I had brought out via the computer and told me that I could not do it, that the computer was seized as it was impounded all the rest of the house and then I had to leave the computer delivery I was returned December 18 along with other personal effects.
QUESTION - He had a record seizure of this item, when you say seizure, it has been verbalized?
ANSWER - I have several instances of dissequestro face, then I suppose there is the minutes of seizure.
QUESTION - But she has been notified?
ANSWER - How?
QUESTION - Have you been notified of a report of seizure?
ANSWER - No.
QUESTION - Look only for clarification, she said that immediately open the door you're all out?
ANSWER - Yes.
QUESTION - And then later, however, she took the computer and put it in the car?
ANSWER - Yes.
QUESTION - So therefore she returned home?
ANSWER - I think I had the computer taken away ... No, I took away the computer before going to the police station, yes, I came back ... Because I felt that I could not do it take away the computer, but I wanted to take away the itself, and then I came back in the room and I started.
QUESTION - But sorry, I understand, because I knew that all were invited to come out and the house was immediately placed under sequestration, are attended the Postal Police and all other ...
ANSWER - Yes, however in the living room for example, there remained the bag, when we entered we had supported jackets things, so we had to go in anyway take them back, such as the bag I had on the couch, I had a moment to take it back.
QUESTION - So you're back with the others to resume personal property and even your computer.
ANSWER - I definitely.
APPLICATION - The others remember if they get in?
ANSWER - I will definitely here some do not.
PRESIDENT - You're sorry ...
ANSWER - I do not remember.
QUESTION - The other I speak of Zaroli, Grande, on the other policeman, Amanda and Sollecito.
ANSWER - I speak for myself, I do not remember.


p116-118

QUESTION - Another point, the last point: we can clarify what happened that day, on November 2 with the famous computer. She first questions, and then the subsequent questions Advocate Dalla Vedova said that this computer had been taken away from her at that day.
ANSWER - Yes.
QUESTION - Can you explain well, then she came?
ANSWER - I when we were told that we should go Police Headquarters, obviously to give our statements, I wanted to take away the computer due to the fact I used it on your hard drive and there were documents of interest to me, not only personal, basically it was because we say beyond file that contained the personal computer, there were also files related to issues of study and then I wanted take away.
QUESTION - So she entered the room?
ANSWER - Yes, and I took it.
QUESTION - How did you get, that she came?
ANSWER - I got it from ... Being that the computer was inside a computer bag door, I taken and put it in the car of Mark.
QUESTION - So she opened the door this computer?
ANSWER - No, I took the bag, I took the bag and I in the camera.
QUESTION - Then after this machine was delivered to someone?
ANSWER - Yes, because ... So he remained in the car of Mark I think for a good bit 'while we were at the police station make summary information, I do not remember exactly as it turned out that I had taken the computer, however, when the lords of the The Police realized, that they came to know of this What was asked to pick it up and subjected him, I said that it was subject to seizure as ...
QUESTION - It has been seized this computer?
ANSWER - Yes.
QUESTION - There is a report of seizure that they did?
THE CIVIL - Mr. Maresca - President has already responded, we are closing examination.
QUESTION - This is a cross-examination.
PRESIDENT - Yes, but let us not make the same questions already also placed on the window grates.
QUESTION - On the window I objected.
ANSWER - I was told that I could not take away the computer because it was impounded as well as all rest of the house, so I could not take him away and had to remain in their custody.
QUESTION - And then she gave to those who, Postal Police or Squad? The Police or the Police Post? A who gave it, in which office he brought?
ANSWER - The office of the third floor of the police station.
QUESTION - This led to the Flying Squad.
ANSWER - Yes.
QUESTION - Have you been back?
ANSWER - On the 18th of December.
QUESTION - She first told us that this computer was broken, had the hard drive crash, this hard drive has been broke into the police station or was broken before?
ANSWER - No, when the computer was brought to the police station we tried, we opened it and tried to turn it on, you do not lit, called a technician and he tried to use the internal operating system of the computer, the MS - DOS, and that way she could not even turn on the computer and told me it was broken, then later on, the On 18 December, I was handed back together, as I already mentioned, other personal effects, following instance dissequestro that we presented to the Public Ministry, and later took it to other technicians to try to recover data, at least, in however, as it was new, it was a new laptop and several technicians who have brought the most stubborn we say that he tried to retrieve it told me that the computer had suffered a big crash and that the hard drive had gone in schicchera.


p 124-130

QUESTION - Thank you. Look back to the question of the computer, I I just needed some clarification, she falls in home, it takes the computer, puts it in the car, then someone says that computer, however, must be made available ...
ANSWER - It is impounded, he said "Miss the computer is seized, not if it can bring, the she has to leave because he could not take away from house and the house is seized by this time, then we must consider it as if it were still inside the house, he never removed, it can not fall in possession. "
QUESTION - This is clear, however, she at one point she says I have turned on the computer to the police station.
ANSWER - Yes, it was evening, I speak afternoon - evening.
QUESTION - More or less, 8, 10?
ANSWER - I do not know I'm watching the first entry afternoon at the police station and I went out in the morning later.
QUESTION - And now the computer does not work.
ANSWER - It was evening.
QUESTION - Did not work.
ANSWER - No, no, we tried to turn it on at least out of curiosity.
QUESTION - When was the last time she remembers that this computer worked or who has used it?
ANSWER - So I used to work in the week same, I had brought from home study.
QUESTION - What worked?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
QUESTION - So when she brought the computer home work?
ANSWER - Yes.
QUESTION - Do you remember where you put it or where it normally put?
ANSWER - I changed the position, depending on which had use to work or to write, or to hear the poggiavo the music on your desk, but on that occasion I left it in the bag door closed because computer I knew that I would not have used, I had brought from work, then from work I had brought with her purse and I left it in the bag.
QUESTION - But at home then you used the computer?
ANSWER - All we had computers at home.
QUESTION - So you used the computer at home?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, but each had its staff.
QUESTION - is clear. There was free internet?
ANSWER - No.
QUESTION - How did you download your mail or surf the internet?
ANSWER - Everyone mending as he could, going in internet point.
QUESTION - Look I just wanted to come back to this assessment of failure.
ANSWER - Yes.
QUESTION - I mean she discovers the evening of 2 ...
ANSWER - That does not work anymore.
QUESTION - What your computer does not work. It is surprising because she was the last one that has used it before and worked, has set itself the problem, he says, "But why, someone has tampered with."
ANSWER - No, I tried to turn it on, because I said, "Well, at least we see and work, we have now. " I wanted to see Why ... because if that was not the position in which I had left ...
QUESTION - So the question should have been spontaneous "But how come you is broken," if he was at home, I used it the other day, I put it there, no one has used it.
ANSWER - I ...
PRESIDENT - I'm sorry, but he found himself in the same position where he had left it?
ANSWER - No, I found it moved.
PRESIDENT - He found it moved.
QUESTION - You found moved. Exactly can be more precise, what it means, stood on a table and then he has found on the ground or in a room or was in another room?
ANSWER - He was, I left it in the room and somewhere I found it in another place.
QUESTION - Can you be more precise?
THE PRESIDENT - That is where he had left and where he found it? On the bed ...
ANSWER - I left him near the bed and found him on the ground.
APPLICATION - For earth.
ANSWER - Yes.
QUESTION - Can be dropped from the bed?
ANSWER - Do not let him on the bed, maybe I explained evil, let him always placed inside the bag computer near the bed and then I found it on the ground, I asked as he was moved to turn it on to see if it still worked.
QUESTION - So she has placed on a surface higher than the floor?
PRESIDENT - Excuse me when he says near the bed that means, above the bed, beside the bed, on a chair near to bed? Where he was, where he had left?
ANSWER - You're a briefcase pictures, images briefcase, the case can stand by itself, so in standing upright next to the bed and found it lying down.
PRESIDENT - On the same side, near?
ANSWER - Still inside the room but no longer feet.
QUESTION - When then returned the PC on 18 December who has returned the Police or the Police Post?
ANSWER - There were the lords of the Postal Police.
QUESTION - Do you remember who?
ANSWER - All subjects, the majority?
QUESTION - If you remember the name, and if there were more people may say how many people too?
ANSWER - I remember Mrs. Monica Napoleoni, I Lorraine Zugarini remember, I remember the agent Stephen Gubbins, I remember another agent that I often seen but did not know the name, but since I've seen it so many times in my return to the police station.
QUESTION - Excuse me if I insist President on this subject, but she knows that there was an accident on the other evidentiary computer so this is a question for us we have learned today becomes the object ...
PRESIDENT - He is in fact responding.
QUESTION - Why I thought you were boring you with this classroom my insistence, but it is a novelty for us is new and we have to find out.
PRESIDENT - I pray.
QUESTION - When exactly did she have restored him then turn it on, tried to see if it worked?
ANSWER - Yes.
QUESTION - And what was the result?
ANSWER - That did not work.
QUESTION - And what the officials said, he says we
We did an investigation?
ANSWER - Yes, the technician said that it does not work.
QUESTION - There were signs of damage on the computer?
ANSWER - No, thank God, those not, because the bag being very thick and very big has to be protected.
QUESTION - Who is it that has made the diagnosis of the possible reason for the breakup, the failure so as ...
ANSWER - So the evening when the computer in the evening when I had to make the computer introduced me to the Police a technician, a computer expert, a technical computer.
QUESTION - Who presented it? The police station?
ANSWER - The Police Headquarters. They told me this is our Technical ...
QUESTION - This is our technician.
ANSWER - This is our computer technician, do try if he manages to turn it on.
QUESTION - Our computer technician, that the police has suggested that she would use an expert to ascertain the because ...
ANSWER - Because I could not turn it on.
QUESTION - But she had the computer sequestrated, he had
already been officially returned?
ANSWER - No, then perhaps we are doing because confusion I am referring to ... I would always be precise in I sense that I always refer to the period of time that I went to the police station from November 2 to November 3 in the morning.
At this time I am talking about the period of time there. Then when the computer came to me returned the day on December 18, I already knew from before that did not work, so I took him by other technicians.
QUESTION - is clear, so I wanted to understand, thank you. Look at her today it has lost all the data on that computer?
ANSWER - No, I was able to find a technician who is managed to fix me the hard disk and saved me the data, I replaced the hard drive ...
APPLICATION - The replaced the hard drive?
ANSWER - Yes, and I also expanded the Ram.
QUESTION - Did he say why there was the failure to operation, what was the reason for the technical part of this hypothesis of a blow that said she would take the computer. An electric shock said, you remember ...
ANSWER - No, because I tell the truth this man that I was adjusted the computer ...
THE PRESIDENT - What is your name, if you can tell.
ANSWER - No, I do not know him personally, he was a gentleman who knew one of the Lawyers in the studio where I am, I said "Let's try this gentleman maybe you can help, "he held about three months and three months after a
day he called me, he said "I have your data" and so ...
QUESTION - It has therefore confirmed that there was a problem the hard disk.
ANSWER - He said, yes, there was a problem with the circuit.
QUESTION - Electric, electronic?
ANSWER - Yes, however broadly confirm the fact of the schicchera.
PRESIDENT - of which he had said before?
ANSWER - Yes.
THE PRESIDENT - No return, please Lawyer.
QUESTION - but then I just wanted to conclude on this point ...
ANSWER - Now the computer works.
QUESTION - We're all happy. But she returned in the evening 2, as soon as she noticed that the computer does not worked, in the evening of 2, came the mind "Well, someone has tampered with, someone broke me "Deep she brought the computer in her room and the computer he resumed in the same room as never broke this computer? The came to mind ... perhaps
ANSWER - That night, no, that evening I sincerely other concerns.
QUESTION - I guess.
PRESIDENT - But still they are given the heads on the computer, objective data ...
ANSWER - Tonight sincerely computer was no longer my only problem.
PRESIDENT - I agree.
QUESTION - And also the coach has ever suggested a subsequent tampering?
ANSWER - No, I have always said that it was a hit.
The stupid things Ergon says - THE BEST OF NASEER AHMAD: "Curatolo's testimony is one of the bedrock foundations of my beliefs in this case."
User avatar
MichaelB
 
Posts: 6172
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:07 pm
Location: Perryville Prison

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby MichaelB » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:37 am

So there was a LOT of interest in this computer. She says:

  • it had been moved from where she left it;
  • it was originally on the bed then on the ground; (that part isn't clear)
  • it did start up at the police station and the technician tried to boot it using MS-DOS but that didn't work;
  • they seized it;
  • it was completely stuffed from an electrical shock when the Postal Police returned it to her on Dec 18.

I'll revisit this when we get a translation of Luca's statement on Nov 2 because he saw Marco checking the laptop. Yet Marco denied touching it.
The stupid things Ergon says - THE BEST OF NASEER AHMAD: "Curatolo's testimony is one of the bedrock foundations of my beliefs in this case."
User avatar
MichaelB
 
Posts: 6172
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:07 pm
Location: Perryville Prison

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby Clive Wismayer » Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:28 pm

Why does it matter?
Clive Wismayer
 

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby MichaelB » Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:55 pm

Clive Wismayer wrote:Why does it matter?


Well if the computer worked the last time she used it before the murder and then didn't work after the murder there has to be a reason why.

Either:

  • Rudy used it and broke it and put it back in the computer bag (seems unlikely);
  • Filomena tampered with it after she retrieved it;
  • It got knocked accidentally on November 2, possibly by Marco who Luca saw handling it;
  • Some other reason.....

If Filomena tampered with it then that's quite serious. Her first phone call on November 2 at 13.29 was to her boss, not Giacomo or Laura telling them Meredith had been murdered.

Regarding this part:

DOMANDA – Lei prima ci ha detto che questo computer era rotto, presentava l’hard disk rotto, questo hard disk è stato rotto in Questura o era rotto prima?
RISPOSTA – No, quando il computer fu portato in Questura cercammo, lo aprimmo e cercammo di accenderlo, non si accendeva, chiamarono un tecnico e provò a usare il sistema operativa interno del computer, il sistema MS – DOS e neanche in quel modo riusciva ad accendere il computer e mi disse che era rotto, poi in seguito, il giorno 18 dicembre mi fu riconsegnato insieme, come ho già detto, ad altri effetti personali, a seguito di istanza di dissequestro che avevamo presentato al
Pubblico Ministero, e in seguito lo portai da altri tecnici per cercare di recuperare dati, quanto meno, in quanto comunque era nuovo, era un portatile nuovo e diversi tecnici a cui l’ho portato il più caparbio diciamo che provò a recuperarlo mi disse che il computer aveva subito un grosso urto e che l’hard disk era andato in schicchera.


At the police station on November 2 she says it wouldn't turn on "non si accendeva" but most likely what she means is that when switching on it wouldn't boot up because the hard disk was broken.
The stupid things Ergon says - THE BEST OF NASEER AHMAD: "Curatolo's testimony is one of the bedrock foundations of my beliefs in this case."
User avatar
MichaelB
 
Posts: 6172
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:07 pm
Location: Perryville Prison

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby Clive Wismayer » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:28 am

I can't think of a reason that's relevant to this case.
Clive Wismayer
 

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby MichaelB » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:37 am

Clive Wismayer wrote:I can't think of a reason that's relevant to this case.


Ok.
The stupid things Ergon says - THE BEST OF NASEER AHMAD: "Curatolo's testimony is one of the bedrock foundations of my beliefs in this case."
User avatar
MichaelB
 
Posts: 6172
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:07 pm
Location: Perryville Prison

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby roteoctober » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:15 pm

Clive Wismayer wrote:Why does it matter?


To some it is important because in their view Filomena's computer's predicaments support the theory of Watergate-style burglaries aimed at snatching confidential informations from lawyers and their assistants.
roteoctober
Tech Director
 
Posts: 2433
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:01 pm
Location: Turin - Italy

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby Clive Wismayer » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:43 pm

roteoctober wrote:
Clive Wismayer wrote:Why does it matter?


To some it is important because in their view Filomena's computer's predicaments support the theory of Watergate-style burglaries aimed at snatching confidential informations from lawyers and their assistants.

Thanks. I am not sure I followed the translation. Did she remove it from her room, with permission, or was it returned to her at the police station?
Clive Wismayer
 

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby roteoctober » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:11 am

Clive Wismayer wrote:
roteoctober wrote:
Clive Wismayer wrote:Why does it matter?


To some it is important because in their view Filomena's computer's predicaments support the theory of Watergate-style burglaries aimed at snatching confidential informations from lawyers and their assistants.

Thanks. I am not sure I followed the translation. Did she remove it from her room, with permission, or was it returned to her at the police station?


She removed it from her room WITHOUT permission and then was ordered to surrend it at the police station. It was later (months later) returned to her, when various items collected at the crime scene were also officially de-seized.
roteoctober
Tech Director
 
Posts: 2433
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:01 pm
Location: Turin - Italy

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby Clive Wismayer » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:49 am

roteoctober wrote:
Clive Wismayer wrote:
roteoctober wrote:
Clive Wismayer wrote:Why does it matter?


To some it is important because in their view Filomena's computer's predicaments support the theory of Watergate-style burglaries aimed at snatching confidential informations from lawyers and their assistants.

Thanks. I am not sure I followed the translation. Did she remove it from her room, with permission, or was it returned to her at the police station?


She removed it from her room WITHOUT permission and then was ordered to surrend it at the police station. It was later (months later) returned to her, when various items collected at the crime scene were also officially de-seized.

Ah, OK. Thanks. I still fail to see what the big deal is with this. I suppose I am assuming such a high level of incompetence on the part of the Perugian cops that I am no longer shockable.
Clive Wismayer
 

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:55 pm

roteoctober wrote:
Clive Wismayer wrote:Thanks. I am not sure I followed the translation. Did she remove it from her room, with permission, or was it returned to her at the police station?


She removed it from her room WITHOUT permission and then was ordered to surrend it at the police station. It was later (months later) returned to her, when various items collected at the crime scene were also officially de-seized.

One of the authors - I think Dempsey - relates the story of Filomena going back into her room to retrieve it AFTER the cottage had been secured as a crime-scene. Whether Dempsey is relating that accurately or not (or her source for saying it) is unclear.

Yet the story is that she, accompanied by lawyer, took it to the Questura with the cops raising at least an eyebrow. I've not read anywhere that she was "ordered" to surrender it, but that she brought it in with the expectation of surrendering it. Still - isn't it a crime to tamper with a crime-scene?

There's plenty of room to conjure up a conspiracy surrounding the recruitment of petty second-storey men to go fetch lawyer assistant's computers for fishing trips by..... who? As the conspiracy goes, this would provide reason for going all-off on Knox and Sollecito once Lumumba is freed and Rudy is officially part of it all.
    “The only way I can pay back for what fate and society have handed me is to try, in minor totally useless ways, to make an angry sound against injustice.”
    Martha Gellhorn
Bill Williams
 
Posts: 8084
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby roteoctober » Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:02 am

Going "all-off"?

What do you mean and why?
roteoctober
Tech Director
 
Posts: 2433
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:01 pm
Location: Turin - Italy

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby Bill Williams » Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:35 pm

Bill Williams wrote:One of the authors - I think Dempsey - relates the story of Filomena going back into her room to retrieve it AFTER the cottage had been secured as a crime-scene. Whether Dempsey is relating that accurately or not (or her source for saying it) is unclear.

Yet the story is that she, accompanied by lawyer, took it to the Questura with the cops raising at least an eyebrow. I've not read anywhere that she was "ordered" to surrender it, but that she brought it in with the expectation of surrendering it. Still - isn't it a crime to tamper with a crime-scene?

There's plenty of room to conjure up a conspiracy surrounding the recruitment of petty second-storey men to go fetch lawyer assistant's computers for fishing trips by..... who? As the conspiracy goes, this would provide reason for going all-off on Knox and Sollecito once Lumumba is freed and Rudy is officially part of it all.


roteoctober wrote:Going "all-off"?

What do you mean and why?

Maybe "going all-off-on" is a Canadianism.

Translation:

There's plenty of room to conjure up a conspiracy surrounding the recruitment of petty second-storey men to go fetch lawyer assistant's computers for fishing trips by..... who? As the conspiracy goes, this would provide reason for going all-out to focus on and frame Knox/Sollectio once Lumumba is freed and Rudy is officially part of it all. Once Rudy cannot be ignored, they try to hide him under an avalanche of attention focussed on the other two, particularly Knox.
    “The only way I can pay back for what fate and society have handed me is to try, in minor totally useless ways, to make an angry sound against injustice.”
    Martha Gellhorn
Bill Williams
 
Posts: 8084
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby roteoctober » Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:00 am

Ok, right, now I understand, and the reasoning behind the hypothesis is indeed that one.
roteoctober
Tech Director
 
Posts: 2433
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:01 pm
Location: Turin - Italy

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby LondonSupporter » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:16 am

I believe that Filomena grabbed her computer within minutes of Meredith's body being discovered. The conspiracy is that Guede was stealing computers from lawyers on police/prosecution instruction because they wanted to know what the defence was up to in a specific case. Mignini's name was mentioned. Guede had broken into a lawyer's office before.

I forget the whole story of which case was involved. It is a conspiracy, but it would explain why Guede was not initially a suspect, but nevertheless the police were looking for an 'African'; it would explain his appearance at the nightclub after the murder (to give him an alibi for the later time of death that the prosecution always argued for); it would explain the bomb hoax which gave the cops an excuse to visit the Lanas and look for the dumped phones; it explains the prosecution's immediate rejection of the break-in as real and it explains the attempted framing Lumumba and of Amanda and Raffaele.

After the murder, Guede panicked and left, without the computer. He dumped the phones and called his handler (maybe). They came up with the plan to secure him an alibi and organise his trip to Germany, where he was visited by his lawyer Biscotti, even before the Italian cops got there to bring him home. Who hired Biscotti and when?

I am not persuaded - there is no evidence for it as far as I know, but it is an appealing theory.
"Life lived somehow for love is life never wasted." - Amanda Knox
User avatar
LondonSupporter
 
Posts: 567
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:31 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby Bill Williams » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:30 am

LondonSupporter wrote:I believe that Filomena grabbed her computer within minutes of Meredith's body being discovered. The conspiracy is that Guede was stealing computers from lawyers on police/prosecution instruction because they wanted to know what the defence was up to in a specific case. Mignini's name was mentioned. Guede had broken into a lawyer's office before.

I forget the whole story of which case was involved. It is a conspiracy, but it would explain why Guede was not initially a suspect, but nevertheless the police were looking for an 'African'; it would explain his appearance at the nightclub after the murder (to give him an alibi for the later time of death that the prosecution always argued for); it would explain the bomb hoax which gave the cops an excuse to visit the Lanas and look for the dumped phones; it explains the prosecution's immediate rejection of the break-in as real and it explains the attempted framing Lumumba and of Amanda and Raffaele.

After the murder, Guede panicked and left, without the computer. He dumped the phones and called his handler (maybe). They came up with the plan to secure him an alibi and organise his trip to Germany, where he was visited by his lawyer Biscotti, even before the Italian cops got there to bring him home. Who hired Biscotti and when?

I am not persuaded - there is no evidence for it as far as I know, but it is an appealing theory.

As a conspiracy theory that's where it sits. It answers a lot of lingering questions, but has precious little evidence to prove it.

"(I)t explains the prosecution's immediate rejection of the break-in as real". It not only explains it, it explains (negative evidence?) why the PLE did not bother gathering forensics - photos, a test climb like was done years' later by Channel 5. But negative evidence is not evidence, unless there is so much of it that the stench compels one to see the obvious.
    “The only way I can pay back for what fate and society have handed me is to try, in minor totally useless ways, to make an angry sound against injustice.”
    Martha Gellhorn
Bill Williams
 
Posts: 8084
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby Teddy » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:03 am

LondonSupporter wrote:I believe that Filomena grabbed her computer within minutes of Meredith's body being discovered. The conspiracy is that Guede was stealing computers from lawyers on police/prosecution instruction because they wanted to know what the defence was up to in a specific case. Mignini's name was mentioned. Guede had broken into a lawyer's office before.

I forget the whole story of which case was involved. It is a conspiracy, but it would explain why Guede was not initially a suspect, but nevertheless the police were looking for an 'African'; it would explain his appearance at the nightclub after the murder (to give him an alibi for the later time of death that the prosecution always argued for); it would explain the bomb hoax which gave the cops an excuse to visit the Lanas and look for the dumped phones; it explains the prosecution's immediate rejection of the break-in as real and it explains the attempted framing Lumumba and of Amanda and Raffaele.

After the murder, Guede panicked and left, without the computer. He dumped the phones and called his handler (maybe). They came up with the plan to secure him an alibi and organise his trip to Germany, where he was visited by his lawyer Biscotti, even before the Italian cops got there to bring him home. Who hired Biscotti and when?

I am not persuaded - there is no evidence for it as far as I know, but it is an appealing theory.

This CT was indicated to me by someone who I have exchanged info on-line with in Italy, and I posted it. However, since posting it, more documents have come forward which do not lend credence to this CT. For example, there is the deposition of the individual who made the prank call now in the on-line case files on www.amandaknoxcase.com - so either that was invented, or the bomb hoax was real. One oddity of that deposition, if I recall correctly, is that the prank call is reported to have occurred on Halloween instead of the night of 1st Nov, but that may have just been an error. Still, the probability of the prank call occurring the same evening as the murder and the phones being tossed into Lana's garden, does raise eyebrows.
Amanda Knox: "According to Mignini, we found Meredith at the villa and said, Hey, that stupid bitch. Let’s show Meredith. Let’s get her to play a sex game. I was horrified. Who thinks like that?".... indeed, who thinks like that?
User avatar
Teddy
 
Posts: 1774
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:17 am

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby Numbers » Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:28 pm

Teddy wrote:
LondonSupporter wrote:I believe that Filomena grabbed her computer within minutes of Meredith's body being discovered. The conspiracy is that Guede was stealing computers from lawyers on police/prosecution instruction because they wanted to know what the defence was up to in a specific case. Mignini's name was mentioned. Guede had broken into a lawyer's office before.

I forget the whole story of which case was involved. It is a conspiracy, but it would explain why Guede was not initially a suspect, but nevertheless the police were looking for an 'African'; it would explain his appearance at the nightclub after the murder (to give him an alibi for the later time of death that the prosecution always argued for); it would explain the bomb hoax which gave the cops an excuse to visit the Lanas and look for the dumped phones; it explains the prosecution's immediate rejection of the break-in as real and it explains the attempted framing Lumumba and of Amanda and Raffaele.

After the murder, Guede panicked and left, without the computer. He dumped the phones and called his handler (maybe). They came up with the plan to secure him an alibi and organise his trip to Germany, where he was visited by his lawyer Biscotti, even before the Italian cops got there to bring him home. Who hired Biscotti and when?

I am not persuaded - there is no evidence for it as far as I know, but it is an appealing theory.

This CT was indicated to me by someone who I have exchanged info on-line with in Italy, and I posted it. However, since posting it, more documents have come forward which do not lend credence to this CT. For example, there is the deposition of the individual who made the prank call now in the on-line case files on http://www.amandaknoxcase.com - so either that was invented, or the bomb hoax was real. One oddity of that deposition, if I recall correctly, is that the prank call is reported to have occurred on Halloween instead of the night of 1st Nov, but that may have just been an error. Still, the probability of the prank call occurring the same evening as the murder and the phones being tossed into Lana's garden, does raise eyebrows.[/quote

Regarding the phoned bomb hoax, the deposition explains that it was done as a Halloween prank, so the prank call having occurred on Oct. 31 makes sense. But then why were the police called to the Lana residence, and searching the garden, on the night of Nov. 1? One possibility - and this is of course a speculation - is that the Lana family heard or saw something related to Guede tossing Meredith's cell phones into the garden. This alarmed them, and the Lanas called the police. This speculation or hypothesis could be confirmed or invalidated by an investigation of relevant police records, which is possible in theory, if perhaps not in practice (unless done by someone with authority to do so in Italy). For this hypothesis, a corollary is that the police had the Lanas conflate the date of the prank call and the date of the phone toss by Guede to disguise the fact that the police were aware of an unusual occurrence on the night of Nov. 1.
Expert witness testimony must be the product of reliable principles and methods. {Paraphrase of Fed. Rules of Evidence 702c}
Numbers
 
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:29 pm

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby LondonSupporter » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:01 am

Whether there was a conspiracy or not, Mignini and the cops did strange things as soon as the body was discovered. Mignini prevented the temperature of the body from being taken, which is standard practice, to allow for maximium flexibility regarding time of death. Why would he do this if he was not organising a cover-up? The cops declared that the break-in was fake, without bothering to test this theory in any way.

As the UK Channel 5 TV doc showed years later, you can test glass to see the stress pattern and work out how it was broken. In any case, the rock was on the floor of the room, but the police theory was that the rock was thrown from the inside. This would have required the 'burglar' to go outside, find a rock, go inside, throw it out through the window, go back outside, recover the rock, bring it back in and place it on the floor, along with some glass, collected from outside (which is where most of the glass would have fallen). The cops did not examine the area below the window to check for glass and there would have been quite a lot there if their theory was correct. If anyone was really going to fake a break-in they would have thrown the rock from the outside, just as a real burglar would have done.

This 'mistake' caused them to believe and argue that the murder was an inside job. Any half competent cop would have tested the theory before running with it as a fact. I find it hard to believe that Mignini and the cops were that stupid, so I lean towards the theory that a decision was made to frame Amanda and/or Lumumba, possibly to protect Guede and minimise his role or remove him from the frame. The latter was not possible, but the framing of Lumumba was a step in that direction. If Guede's fingerprints had not been on file, they might have got away with it. Whether Guede was protected because he was working for the police, or whether his Caporeli 'family' connection was pulling strings on his behalf is unclear. I lean to the family connection. Who else would have arranged for Biscotti to head straight to Germany when Guede was arrested. How many small-time drifters/drug dealers/murderers have a lawyer on a string?
"Life lived somehow for love is life never wasted." - Amanda Knox
User avatar
LondonSupporter
 
Posts: 567
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:31 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Filomena's Computer

Postby european neighbour » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:24 am

LondonSupporter wrote:I forget the whole story of which case was involved.

One case was Comodi's brushwood disaster (Fabiani et al. as "baby terrorists"), because Brocchi was one of Fabiani's lawyers, whose laptop was stolen by Guede. I have no idea about the tasks of Romanelli's law office or if Mgnini was involved at all.
european neighbour
 
Posts: 935
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 9:28 am


Return to Injustice in Perugia Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests