Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby michellesings » Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:40 pm

In this article:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/knoxs-mom-s ... got-along/

Edda, Amanda's Mom states that Amanda was stunned by the death of someone who she...

"had considered her friend." The article then goes on to say "This contrasted with previous testimony by other witnesses that Kercher had complained about Knox's bathroom habits and had expressed surprise at her apparent promiscuity."

This is a gross exaggeration. And it's certainly no motive for murder!

If this is correct, did people simply accepted this without pause or question?

Did the roommates believe that Meredith complained enough about Amanda to give to murder her own friend? They were completely manipulated by Giuliani Mignini. Why would he have met with them outside of town?
I do NOT believe for one minute that Meredith complained all that much about Amanda!

Shouldn't Mignini have have met with them in the Police Department? This was extremely serious in that it becme "the" motive from the Prosecution, that Amanda murdered Meredith Kercher?

his is what they used to convict Amanda. Are they, too,
filled with so much hate that they simply cannot see what is real and what is true? Add this to the list of wrongs done by the Prosecution.

Do certain types of people just so desperately desire to hate,
that they joyfully deny any common sense or even logic?
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby Mafiabuster » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:02 pm

But why would they lie under oath? What did they have against Amanda? Were they jealous of her perhaps?
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby Francisco » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:24 pm

Mafiabuster wrote:But why would they lie under oath? What did they have against Amanda? Were they jealous of her perhaps?

By the time they testified Amanda was already created as a very evil person who savagely murdered their friend Meredith. Why did they lie? ...perhaps not lying, but gross embellishment of minor details that grew like the one pound bass that becomes a 20 pounder over time and multiple retelling of the story.

But perhaps more importantly -- it is Amanda who supposedly murdered Meredith. So shouldn't they have been looking for a reason for Amanda to be upset with Meredith and not the other way around.

So should we assume Amanda grabbed a ridiculously large kitchen knife and convinced her boyfriend of one week to accompany her to the cottage to murder Meredith because Meredith wasn't happy Amanda wasn't properly cleaning the toilet? :facepalm:
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby michellesings » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:33 am

The Italian flatmates testified that they (meaning that the two of them) seemed to be doing the cleaning. This meant that the younger flatmates did less. Who cares one way or another except tht.... This is no it points to how ridiculous the cleaning theory is. One of many.

The British friends of Meredith trusted Mignini. He was supposed to be the man in authority, who had a high respected position to be the good guy. They thought he was helping them find justice for their friend. They trusted someone scary. This man cared for no one except himself.
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby Annella » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:01 am

I cannot remember which, but either Laura or Filomena was not happy with the way BOTH of the girls did the cleaning. I shall find that testimony.
'The Italian concept of judicial truth does not trouble itself with reality; it controls the narrative by controlling the past"
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby Mafiabuster » Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:56 am

Annella wrote:I cannot remember which, but either Laura or Filomena was not happy with the way BOTH of the girls did the cleaning. I shall find that testimony.


Did you manage to find this? I'd be really interested to see it. Somebody should tweet it at 'Hairy Rag' repeatedly until his head explodes! :lol:
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby Hans » Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:46 am

Mafiabuster wrote:
Annella wrote:I cannot remember which, but either Laura or Filomena was not happy with the way BOTH of the girls did the cleaning. I shall find that testimony.


Did you manage to find this? I'd be really interested to see it. Somebody should tweet it at 'Hairy Rag' repeatedly until his head explodes! :lol:


Laura Mezzetti pg 11-12
DOMANDA - Avevano ucciso Meredith. Senta si ricorda con che cosa, quali erano i prodotti della pulizia di casa, quante volte facevate la pulizia, come vi organizzavate se c'era un turno?
RISPOSTA - Non ricordo i prodotti che utilizzavamo per casa e per quanto riguarda le pulizie era un motivo un po' di screzio con le ragazze, c'è da dire che io sono molto precisa da questo punto di vista, un po' quasi fissata e le ragazze non è che pulissero molto, tanto è vero che io gli ultimi giorni di ottobre avevo fatto, avevo scritto un turno per le pulizie e l'avevo appeso nel portone di casa nel quale addirittura prevedevo una sorta di multa di 5 Euro per chi non avesse rispettato il turno delle pulizie e quindi gran parte delle volte lo facevo io o Filomena.
DOMANDA - Ecco, lei o Filomena grosso modo che facevate ...
RISPOSTA - Sì, maggiormente noi.
[...]
DOMANDA - E lei ha detto delle pulizie vi occupavate generalmente voi.
RISPOSTA - Maggiormente sì, io e Filomena.
DOMANDA - Ha visto qualche volta Amanda e Meredith pulire, in quale occasioni?
RISPOSTA - Sì, alcune volte si, raramente ma sì.
DOMANDA - E che usavano?
RISPOSTA - La scopa, il mocio, ma i prodotti che avevamo erano tipo, ora non posso dire il nome esattamente, ma tipo fabuloso, questi saponi liquidi, profumati.

google:
QUESTION - They had killed Meredith. Senta is remembered with what, what were the products of cleaning house, how many times did you clean as you organizzavate if there was a shift?
ANSWER - I do not recall the products that we used for home and as for housekeeping was a reason a little 'disagreement with the girls, we have to say that I am very clear from this point of view, a little' almost fixed and girls is not cleaned in that much, so much so that the last days of October I had done, I had written a turn for cleaning and I had hung in the door of the house in which even foresaw a kind of fine of 5 euros for those had not complied with the round of cleaning and therefore most of the time I did I or Filomena.
QUESTION - Here, she or Filomena roughly you did ...
ANSWER - Yes, most of us.
[...]
QUESTION - And she said cleaning will generally occupancy of you.
ANSWER - Mostly yes, me and Filomena.
QUESTION - Have you seen any time Amanda and Meredith clean, in what occasions?
ANSWER - Yes, it sometimes, but rarely does.
QUESTION - And they used?
ANSWER - The broom, mop, but the products that we had were like, now I can not say the name exactly, but kind fabuloso, these liquid soaps, perfumed.

:clue:
He [Raffaele] is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque caricature that is “Foxy Knoxy”
~ Amanda Knox
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby Mafiabuster » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:29 pm

Thanks Hans. I think it's time to review the testimony of the english girls.
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby Mafiabuster » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:53 am

So, I've been reading through the testimony of Meredith's English friends and I still have more transcripts to reread, but one thing is obvious. They really didn't like Amanda. Were they jealous of her? Why?

This really puzzles me.
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby Alex_K » Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:57 am

Mafiabuster wrote:So, I've been reading through the testimony of Meredith's English friends and I still have more transcripts to reread, but one thing is obvious. They really didn't like Amanda. Were they jealous of her? Why?

This really puzzles me.


They were brainwashed, first of all, and possibly jealous. Nina Burleigh writes about the role of girl-on-girl rivalry in the witchhunt that ensued. Female hatred for women who are effortlessly attractive to men is indescribably strong. There was a lot of that in the Knox case.

At the heart of the vitriol was Knox's fundamental innocence, not only of the crime but of a more general character. Her brief trysts were a journey of sexual self-discovery, necessary stages in the education of a serious, self-conscious American woman in the 21st century. She would never accept sex out of convenience or profit; there was a certain high-mindedness in what her philistine pseudo-friends and the hater coterie branded as promiscuity. It's something they must be dreaming of in their dirty little minds but incapable of achieving, lacking the charms and the innocence that Nature showered on the object of their poisonous envy.
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby erasmus44 » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:59 am

Mafiabuster wrote:So, I've been reading through the testimony of Meredith's English friends and I still have more transcripts to reread, but one thing is obvious. They really didn't like Amanda. Were they jealous of her? Why?

This really puzzles me.



I chalk this up to confirmation bias. The girls were told by the police that there was overwhelming evidence that AK was guilty of a horrendous murder and that she had, in fact, confessed to the murder and that the case was a slam dunk with no doubt about its outcome. Bearing this in mind, the girls were asked - in retrospect - whether they remembered anything which could possibly be a motive for the murder or anything strange about Amanda. Looking at the past through the window of Amanda's presumed guilt of a brutal crime, they exhibited the normal human tendency to remember details and exaggerate those details which confirmed what they already "knew" (that Amanda was some kind of nut job who - the police said - had murdered Meredith in a brutal way). If any of us were to be told that an acquaintance or coworker was a serial killer (and had in fact confessed) and then were asked whether we could remember anything at all strange about the individual, most of us would produce a long string of idiosyncratic behavior items that, in retrospect, were evidence of mental illness. This is the way confirmation bias works. It is absolutely the most perverse distortion in the way the human mind works. I have seen it in the investment world where people have every incentive to avoid it and it is alive and well and has accounted for trillions of dollars in financial losses - just think of the Madoff situation.
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby Mafiabuster » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:03 pm

Alex_K wrote:
Mafiabuster wrote:So, I've been reading through the testimony of Meredith's English friends and I still have more transcripts to reread, but one thing is obvious. They really didn't like Amanda. Were they jealous of her? Why?

This really puzzles me.


They were brainwashed, first of all, and possibly jealous. Nina Burleigh writes about the role of girl-on-girl rivalry in the witchhunt that ensued. Female hatred for women who are effortlessly attractive to men is indescribably strong. There was a lot of that in the Knox case.

At the heart of the vitriol was Knox's fundamental innocence, not only of the crime but of a more general character. Her brief trysts were a journey of sexual self-discovery, necessary stages in the education of a serious, self-conscious American woman in the 21st century. She would never accept sex out of convenience or profit; there was a certain high-mindedness in what her philistine pseudo-friends and the hater coterie branded as promiscuity. It's something they must be dreaming of in their dirty little minds but incapable of achieving, lacking the charms and the innocence that Nature showered on the object of their poisonous envy.


This could indeed be the case, having read the testimonies of the girls the last few days it's clear they exagerated details and completely made up some others because they really had something against Amanda. I've been thinking about this a lot and didn't Amanda say that other girls at her school thought she was a lesbian? I wonder if this is the reason Meredith's friends didn't like Amanda. Amanda has some traits that people normally associate with lesbians: she was into sports, she has said that she was a tomboy at heart, she was happy to hang out with male friends and be 'one of the boys' and her carefree Seatle personality might be interpreted as being a friend of Sapho. The uptight British girls may well have been victims of their own homophobia and interpreted this incorrectly.

One thing is certain: There stories are too uniform, too perfect... How fishy is that?
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby KayPea » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:30 pm

Mafiabuster wrote:
Alex_K wrote:
Mafiabuster wrote:So, I've been reading through the testimony of Meredith's English friends and I still have more transcripts to reread, but one thing is obvious. They really didn't like Amanda. Were they jealous of her? Why?

This really puzzles me.


They were brainwashed, first of all, and possibly jealous. Nina Burleigh writes about the role of girl-on-girl rivalry in the witchhunt that ensued. Female hatred for women who are effortlessly attractive to men is indescribably strong. There was a lot of that in the Knox case.

At the heart of the vitriol was Knox's fundamental innocence, not only of the crime but of a more general character. Her brief trysts were a journey of sexual self-discovery, necessary stages in the education of a serious, self-conscious American woman in the 21st century. She would never accept sex out of convenience or profit; there was a certain high-mindedness in what her philistine pseudo-friends and the hater coterie branded as promiscuity. It's something they must be dreaming of in their dirty little minds but incapable of achieving, lacking the charms and the innocence that Nature showered on the object of their poisonous envy.


This could indeed be the case, having read the testimonies of the girls the last few days it's clear they exagerated details and completely made up some others because they really had something against Amanda. I've been thinking about this a lot and didn't Amanda say that other girls at her school thought she was a lesbian? I wonder if this is the reason Meredith's friends didn't like Amanda. Amanda has some traits that people normally associate with lesbians: she was into sports, she has said that she was a tomboy at heart, she was happy to hang out with male friends and be 'one of the boys' and her carefree Seatle personality might be interpreted as being a friend of Sapho. The uptight British girls may well have been victims of their own homophobia and interpreted this incorrectly.

One thing is certain: There stories are too uniform, too perfect... How fishy is that?


VERY Fishy. And have you noted how Mignini always leads the witnesses. Finishing sentences and "clarifying" what a witness "really means" ?????
“If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it.”-- Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby pmop57 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:41 am

KayPea
That is also why the Judges of the Court of Cassation should never rule about the merits of a case, a principle of law that was not respected in things case. This is also why the Nencini Court is a farce, a judgemental decision about the credibility of a witness cannot be taken by a Judge who never listened to a witness at Court, who could observe the verbal and non-verbal interaction between the parties. This is the main part, the corpse of why there are trials in Court. How can a Judge take a valid decision without this live experienced information. He cannot!
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby Alex_K » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:13 am

Mafiabuster wrote:Amanda has some traits that people normally associate with lesbians: she was into sports, she has said that she was a tomboy at heart, she was happy to hang out with male friends and be 'one of the boys' and her carefree Seatle personality might be interpreted as being a friend of Sapho. The uptight British girls may well have been victims of their own homophobia and interpreted this incorrectly.


I think that physically, Amanda developed later than most girls, who became non-platonically attracted to boys while she was still a teenage tomboy. (One thinks of Carson McCullers' Mick and Frankie.) When she came into bloom, she still didn't care much about her looks but men found something irresistible about them. Burleigh's book is aptly named.
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby KayPea » Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:58 am

I think one day, when they are much older, the British Girls (a few at least) will look back on this and be horrified that their snarky gossip was used to destroy an innocent life. At the time I know they believed Mignini and this was about all about revenge on Amanda, but when they finally come to the realization that they, along with many others, were duped .... well I hope they turn those sharp words loose on the people who put them in this situation.
“If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it.”-- Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby raven1955 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:52 am

I doubt it. It would be too hard for them emotionally, so they wll protect themselves by not questioning anything
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby Desert Fox » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:20 pm

raven1955 wrote:I doubt it. It would be too hard for them emotionally, so they wll protect themselves by not questioning anything


Several parents and siblings of the murdered boys with the WM3 case question the convictions.
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby KayPea » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:42 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
raven1955 wrote:I doubt it. It would be too hard for them emotionally, so they wll protect themselves by not questioning anything


Several parents and siblings of the murdered boys with the WM3 case question the convictions.


The same with the rape victim in "Picking Cotton." Some people have the courage to face their mistakes, I can only hope that a few of Meredith's friends are those people. For her sake and Amanda's.
“If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it.”-- Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby Niteangel » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:27 pm

Francisco wrote:
Mafiabuster wrote:But why would they lie under oath? What did they have against Amanda? Were they jealous of her perhaps?

By the time they testified Amanda was already created as a very evil person who savagely murdered their friend Meredith. Why did they lie? ...perhaps not lying, but gross embellishment of minor details that grew like the one pound bass that becomes a 20 pounder over time and multiple retelling of the story.

But perhaps more importantly -- it is Amanda who supposedly murdered Meredith. So shouldn't they have been looking for a reason for Amanda to be upset with Meredith and not the other way around.

So should we assume Amanda grabbed a ridiculously large kitchen knife and convinced her boyfriend of one week to accompany her to the cottage to murder Meredith because Meredith wasn't happy Amanda wasn't properly cleaning the toilet? :facepalm:


Exactly! While on the other hand no one has ever testified (nor said) that Amanda had anything bad to say about Meredith, she always said nice things about her.

When you try to explain this to haters/guilters, their reply is (at least the replies I got) that of course she didn't complain about Meredith, she (Amanda) was the bad one. Bunch of idiots these guilters I tell you.
'It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.' Sherlock Holmes
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby Ahimsa1 » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:36 pm

KayPea wrote:
Mafiabuster wrote:
Alex_K wrote:
Mafiabuster wrote:So, I've been reading through the testimony of Meredith's English friends and I still have more transcripts to reread, but one thing is obvious. They really didn't like Amanda. Were they jealous of her? Why?

This really puzzles me.


They were brainwashed, first of all, and possibly jealous. Nina Burleigh writes about the role of girl-on-girl rivalry in the witchhunt that ensued. Female hatred for women who are effortlessly attractive to men is indescribably strong. There was a lot of that in the Knox case.

At the heart of the vitriol was Knox's fundamental innocence, not only of the crime but of a more general character. Her brief trysts were a journey of sexual self-discovery, necessary stages in the education of a serious, self-conscious American woman in the 21st century. She would never accept sex out of convenience or profit; there was a certain high-mindedness in what her philistine pseudo-friends and the hater coterie branded as promiscuity. It's something they must be dreaming of in their dirty little minds but incapable of achieving, lacking the charms and the innocence that Nature showered on the object of their poisonous envy.


This could indeed be the case, having read the testimonies of the girls the last few days it's clear they exagerated details and completely made up some others because they really had something against Amanda. I've been thinking about this a lot and didn't Amanda say that other girls at her school thought she was a lesbian? I wonder if this is the reason Meredith's friends didn't like Amanda. Amanda has some traits that people normally associate with lesbians: she was into sports, she has said that she was a tomboy at heart, she was happy to hang out with male friends and be 'one of the boys' and her carefree Seatle personality might be interpreted as being a friend of Sapho. The uptight British girls may well have been victims of their own homophobia and interpreted this incorrectly.

One thing is certain: There stories are too uniform, too perfect... How fishy is that?


VERY Fishy. And have you noted how Mignini always leads the witnesses. Finishing sentences and "clarifying" what a witness "really means" ?????


As a Brit ex-pat myself, I have always been disturbed by what these Brit friends of Meredith said. From my own life experience in England, the things they talked about, like the toilet cleaning and rabbit vibrator seemed inappropriate and unlikely for decent young educated British women to talk about. Perhaps things have changed since my day and girls are much cruder nowadays, but I took a good look at the picture of the seven and realized they what a rather plain, frumpy group of girls they were at the time. The jealousy aspect seemed obvious to me immediately, because nothing else made sense, because nobody normal would perceive these issues as an indication that someone was a murderer.

One of them stated she hoped Meredith didn't suffer and was upset when Amanda snapped her ridiculous statement. It was a rather silly thing to say under the circumstances, but it just goes to show we all do odd things at times of stress and yet only Amanda was attacked for her reactions. Based on text messages, outings and comments by Filomena and Laura, the actual room mates that Amanda and Meredith seemed to get on, I never believed that Meredith was being that two-faced and spiteful about Amanda behind her back, to the Brit girls, I got the impression she was very sweet and I noted from Stephanie Kercher's statement that Meredith didn't complain about Amanda. There is a definite disconnect here and it has always disturbed me that trivial malicious gossip was used in such a diabolical way.

Hard to say how much influence Mignini had, but Mr. Kercher did for sure, they were clearly deeply saddened for him and the family. Some of the girls have had some self published problems since, maybe guilt, who knows, the hardest hit seems to have been Natalie Haywood, but she self reported she found help at a retreat connected to a Kercher family member. I feel sorry for everyone concerned in this travesty of a case, it can't be easy to carry a guilty conscience for helping an innocent person be wrongfully convicted of a crime, but mostly for Amanda and Raffaele for the joy of youth that was stolen from them. I do believe they will overcome the negative and turn the poison into medicine in due course and wish them both the best for the future.

On a lighter note, I am reminded of something Winston Churchill is reported to have said to a rude woman at a party. "Madame you are ugly," to which she replied "sir you are drunk" and he replied "yes, but I will be sober in the morning!" We should never underestimate the impact self worth and esteem can have on our thinking!
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Re: Meredith Kercher's British Friends

Postby LarryK » Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:18 am

Hopefully the British girls will be reconciled to Amanda someday. I think she will forgive anyone who at least doesn't keep hanging on to her guilt.
The brain is not configured in a way that makes obedience through logical, language-based propositions possible during distress and suffering. -- James Wilder, "Neurotheology and the Life Model"
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