Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:18 am

(The following is a synopsis of Michael Winterbottom's film, "The Face of an Angel," from a viewing at the Toronto International Film Festival, Sept 6, 2014. A review of the film will follow. Please note – Winterbottom uses pseudonyms for his characters, not the real names of those involved in the Perugian debacle. I in this piece DO use realnames to avoid confusion. here ar two fictional characters Winterbottom inserts into the narrative - Thomas, the filmmaker played by Daniel Bruhl, and Melanie who is an exchange student herself in town, who Thomas turns to to see the town in a way Barbie Nadeau could not show him. Melanie is a Meredith-substitute, who Thmas finally denotes as the "Angel" of the title.)

In the hands of Michael Winterbottom, this is not Barbie Nadeau’s original “The Face of an Angel: Student Killer Amanda Knox.” Winterbottom’s film even ends with the 2011 acquittal making no mention at all that the convictions are reinstated.

For Winterbottom, this is a film which addresses those who are obsessed with the details of a crime, and the notion that guilt or innocence can really be known; especially for a crime hopelessly distorted and defined by the tabloid world.

The scene where Daniel Bruhl’s filmmaker character goes up to his wall of headlines, “Student Killer” this, “Student Killer” that and simply tears them down is key.

Those headlines which focussed solely on Knox, completely erased the memory of the one who was killed. For all the demands in the film that Bruhl make a film inside this film about the details of the murder, the moral is: you cannot make a film about this case. It is hopelessly corrupted and the tabloids are at fault. There are many times when Bruhl is driven symbolically crazy trying to figure it out – even as the Frank Sfarzo character continually torments him – read my blog you stupid.

Even as a nod perhaps to original prosecutor Mignini’s Satanic fantasies, Winterbottom even has a fantasy scene where Sfarzo feeds a beating human heart to the young woman who symbolizes Meredith’s purity.

In another fantasy scene, Frank has the knife, the murder weapon that the incompetent police overlooked. Bruhl tries to steal it from Frank for forensic examination but it all backfires as Bruhl is driven crazy trying to track down the detail of the forensics. Bruhl finds his sanity by befriending a Meredith-like student.

The beginning of the film has all the guilter stuff which led to the first conviction. Amanda Knox is hit with a few of the film’s scripted hits about her morality. Raffaele is virtually ignorned, except for the interrogation scenes, where both Amanda and Raffaele look like they are having conversation over coffee with friends.

Innocentisti at that point go, “Aught-owe”.

But the more contact that Bruhl has with the real students of Sienna (Perugia), the more he falls for this Meredith substitute, and the more the forensic detail seems ludicrous.

Which is not to say it is lost. Winterbottom chronicles briefly but effectively how in the Hellmann trial, the DNA evidence simply fell apart.

At first Rudy Guede’s character looks like he’s going to be given a free ride. It shows his Skype call where he said Amanda had nothing to do with the crime, then switches to the courtroom where Rudy is telling about an argument over rent money. Stefanoni is shown briefly on the stand being grilled about the bra-clasp that moved around in 46 days of uncollection. She’s presented with her own video evidence that she’s not changed gloves or booties.

(As an aside,Winterbottom in the Q&A said he had total cooperation from the Italian judiciary. The lawyers in the court scenes cutting into Stefanoni’s character were real, life Sienna (Italy) lawyers!)

Beckinsale’s character (Simone Ford as Nadeau) is a complex one. She’s the one who brings Bruhl into the story and first introduces him to the world. But Beckinsale’s character looks incredibly flawed, with Frank saying to her one, “Why should you be the only one making money off of this.” And Nadeau looks every more as promiscuous as the students she criticizes… replying to Bruhl’s accusation that she’s sleeping with another journalist with, “Not tonight I’m not.” Then she ends up in bed with Bruhl!

I almost laughed out loud when Bruhl, in trying to experience the real-Sienna, the student-Sienna, asks the Meredith substitute if he can buy some coke from any of her contacts. She says, “Give me your mobile,” and she enters the number of a coke dealer into his phone.

In trying to start a script for a film about a murder; he begins with both Amanda and Meredith arriving in Sienna full of hopes for the year. Then Bruhl stops, because the next sentence is supposed to be, “what went wrong.” And, of course, Bruhl the filmmaker cannot see what went wrong between the two, especially why it would result in murder. This is the reason he eventually gives up writing about the murder, and chooses to write about the precious life lost; model with his relationship with the third student.

Someone even said to him, “Doesn’t it occur to you that Amanda could have charged in there all mad?” Bruhl’s response is, “How do we know that? What gives us the right to project our fantasies on to her.” This is key to understanding the “fundamentally we will never know what happened, perhaps because we’re too busy imposing our own fantasies on to it.

Bruhl says, “Does having sex really make her guilty of murder?”

Frank is central to understanding this. The police are corrupt and incompetent. In a dream sequence with Bruhl, Frank can pull knives out of drawers, some even with blood on them. Frank even claims to have gotten into the morgue to survey the wounds, and knows that the procesution theory is wrong simply from the wounds.

One of the scenes with a U.S. newsperson said she is hoping for an acquittal because they’d paid for Amanda’s family to go back and forth from the States. In a glaring factual error, they said that a blond hair was found in Meredith’s pubic area. They showed Mignini’s cartoon video – I had no way of telling if it was the real one, or one Winterbottom had made. Raffaele and Amanda are positively conversational during their interrogation – the scene is not set at all properly, and Amanda reads her own “confession” about Lumumba and “see you later” fairly calmly.

Winterbottom has Mignini saying that Amanda was suspected on the basis of her return to the cottage, and when he showed her the kitchen knives there she went hysterical. The Mignini character says that this was suspicious and caused them to tap her and Raffaele’s phones. When Barbie Nadeau shows Bruhl Amanda’s MySpace page, Amanda has a gun she’s pointing recklessly, saying, “mother **********, I’ll kill you.” Raffaele is shown with his butcher knife. (This is early stuff in the film, which is eclipsed later on by other facts.)

Barbie Nadeau has a cameo, being one of the reporters outside the cottage on Nov 2 as police go in and out of the place. The kissing scene between Amanda and Raffale is muted, hardly noticeable unless you knew what you were looking for.

The answer to the question of, “Who’s face is the face of an angel”, is perhaps Winterbottom’s greatest departure from Nadeau’s book. The angle face is alternately Bruhl’s own daughter Bea, estranged from him through divorce back in California, or the Meredith substitute that shows Bruhl the student life of Sienna, even entering a cocaine dealer’s number into his phone, or even Meredith herself, who gets a memorial dedication at the end of the film.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby MichaelB » Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:09 am

Great review. Thanks Bill.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Samson » Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:42 am

I read this synopsis a couple of times, did you write this from an actual viewing Bill? Fascinating.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Annella » Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:57 am

Samson wrote:I read this synopsis a couple of times, did you write this from an actual viewing Bill? Fascinating.


Bill is likely getting some shuteye but I can tell you that he did attend the film showing. Great to have his review and I want to ask him what his feelings about the film are now that he has had a couple of days to ponder. I mean not from a reviewers POV...but from a member of the viewing public. If someone not at all versed in the horrendous intricacies of case saw film....what would impressions be?
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Samson » Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:06 am

Annella wrote:
Samson wrote:I read this synopsis a couple of times, did you write this from an actual viewing Bill? Fascinating.


Bill is likely getting some shuteye but I can tell you that he did attend the film showing. Great to have his review and I want to ask him what his feelings about the film are now that he has had a couple of days to ponder. I mean not from a reviewers POV...but from a member of the viewing public. If someone not at all versed in the horrendous intricacies of case saw film....what would impressions be?

There is now a logical disconnect between Bill's synopsis/review and Lyle Kercher's approval of the film from his vantage point as a civil prosecutor. The plot thickens.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:10 am

Samson wrote:
Annella wrote:
Samson wrote:I read this synopsis a couple of times, did you write this from an actual viewing Bill? Fascinating.


Bill is likely getting some shuteye but I can tell you that he did attend the film showing. Great to have his review and I want to ask him what his feelings about the film are now that he has had a couple of days to ponder. I mean not from a reviewers POV...but from a member of the viewing public. If someone not at all versed in the horrendous intricacies of case saw film....what would impressions be?

There is now a logical disconnect between Bill's synopsis/review and Lyle Kercher's approval of the film from his vantage point as a civil prosecutor. The plot thickens.

Winterbottom was asked at the Q&A what role the Kercher's played in the film. He said they played none, except that it was important to get the family's permission for the touching memorial reference at the end.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby KayPea » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:02 am

Thanks so much Bill, very interesting.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby european neighbour » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:54 am

In Italy so far ANSA noticed the release, but got Winterbottom's intend wrong ("Amanda's" story). No report, only pictures:
http://www.ansa.it/sito/photogallery/sp ... 7d21c.html
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby moije2 » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:16 am

Thanks for the leg work Bill.

I would be interested in the general ambience at the showing. What type of people. Size of crowd. Tenor of questions directed to Winterbottom. Any of our known reporters. Etc.

Thanks in advance!
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby european neighbour » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:18 am

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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby carlofab » Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:46 am

Sincere thanks for this, Bill!

:)
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby halesha » Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:48 am

La Stampa misses the point as I understand it.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby carlofab » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:07 pm

Bill,

It occurs to me that Winterbottom apparently gives the police version of the interrogation for the same reason Amanda's attorney's refused to claim she was struck during interrogation -- the tape of the interrogation has gone missing.

Without the tape, both Amanda's attorney and Winterbottom could face imprisonment for slandering police.

Here is Mignini's version from his lawsuit against OGGI:

"Knox was brought in for information as a person informed about the facts, and was not required to have a lawyer which applies only to the persons suspected. She was like many other people that the police and I looked at several times during the investigation. Knox supposedly asked for a lawyer and my alleged reply was that there would be no need and that this would have made things worse for her. Instead, she never asked for a lawyer at all, she just wanted to talk. I did tell her that if she wanted to make a statement, I would be limited to writing it down like a notary without saying anything or asking her questions. Knox makes a defamatory statement when she writes [in Waiting to be Heard] that ‘he is a madman who considers his most important career over my freedom or the truth about Meredith's murder.’"

Even Hellmann does not say Knox was struck. He does write that Knox was in fact coerced -- her motive for signing the declarations was to bring an end to an intense and unpleasant interrogation. But since motive is irrelevant for this offense in Italy, he found her guilty anyway.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:13 pm

moije2 wrote:Thanks for the leg work Bill.

I would be interested in the general ambience at the showing. What type of people. Size of crowd. Tenor of questions directed to Winterbottom. Any of our known reporters. Etc.

Thanks in advance!

The theatre was full. Maybe 600-800. What's the capacity of Winter Garden Theatre? It was full with balconey.

Crowd applauded at end. The ending-coda as memorial to Meredith was very well received.

The questions to Winterbottom and cast were mainly production/technical for filmophiles.

When asked if they had an opinion on the case Beckinsale was first with a "no comment". Winterbottom then concurred. My wondering was that they'd been coached.

There was nervous laughter at the question from the crowd; the elephant in the room.

When asked about Kerchers, Winterbottom said they'd only been consulted about the concluding memorial to Meredith. That part was well done.

As mentioned, they were asked if they ran afoul of the law in Italy during production. Quite the contrary - the Siena court people cooperated fully, with real lawyers in real courtrooms, with a simulated panel of 2 professional and six popular judges. Those were real lawyers mocking Stefanoni's DNA and forensic work, albeit according to script.

There was no acknowledgement that the case is ongoing. Newcomers to this in the theatre would have assumed the pair have been acquitted and that's that.

Maybe that's why the cast/crew answered no comment.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:16 pm

carlofab wrote:Bill,

It occurs to me that Winterbottom apparently gives the police version of the interrogation for the same reason Amanda's attorney's refused to claim she was struck during interrogation -- the tape of the interrogation has gone missing.

Without the tape, both Amanda's attorney and Winterbottom could face imprisonment for slandering police.

Here is Mignini's version from his lawsuit against OGGI:

"Knox was brought in for information as a person informed about the facts, and was not required to have a lawyer which applies only to the persons suspected. She was like many other people that the police and I looked at several times during the investigation. Knox supposedly asked for a lawyer and my alleged reply was that there would be no need and that this would have made things worse for her. Instead, she never asked for a lawyer at all, she just wanted to talk. I did tell her that if she wanted to make a statement, I would be limited to writing it down like a notary without saying anything or asking her questions. Knox makes a defamatory statement when she writes [in Waiting to be Heard] that ‘he is a madman who considers his most important career over my freedom or the truth about Meredith's murder.’"

Even Hellmann does not say Knox was struck. He does write that Knox was in fact coerced -- her motive for signing the declarations was to bring an end to an intense and unpleasant interrogation. But since motive is irrelevant for this offense in Italy, he found her guilty anyway.

I had not thought of that.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:18 pm

Annella wrote:
Samson wrote:I read this synopsis a couple of times, did you write this from an actual viewing Bill? Fascinating.


Bill is likely getting some shuteye but I can tell you that he did attend the film showing. Great to have his review and I want to ask him what his feelings about the film are now that he has had a couple of days to ponder. I mean not from a reviewers POV...but from a member of the viewing public. If someone not at all versed in the horrendous intricacies of case saw film....what would impressions be?

I've got the ticket if anyone wants to see it.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby MichaelB » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:44 pm

Naseer Ahmad ‏@manfromatlan · 1m
I saw The Face Of An Angel at @TIFF_NET today. Disappointing on so many levels, will post review tomorrow. #CaraDelevingne was revelation!

If conman Naseer Ahmad doesn't like it...it's probably good.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby MichaelB » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:31 pm

FACE OF AN ANGEL Review | TIFF 2014

Read more at http://collider.com/face-of-an-angel-re ... fjgred8.99
The stupid things Ergon says - THE BEST OF NASEER AHMAD: "Curatolo's testimony is one of the bedrock foundations of my beliefs in this case."
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby MichaelB » Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:13 am

The Face of an Angel, film review: A sense of mystery, sex and the unanswered questions of Meredith Kercher's murder

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 16658.html
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:32 am

MichaelB wrote:Naseer Ahmad ‏@manfromatlan · 1m
I saw The Face Of An Angel at @TIFF_NET today. Disappointing on so many levels, will post review tomorrow. #CaraDelevingne was revelation!

If conman Naseer Ahmad doesn't like it...it's probably good.

The cheap bugger waited for the Monday showing.....
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:34 am

MichaelB wrote:The Face of an Angel, film review: A sense of mystery, sex and the unanswered questions of Meredith Kercher's murder

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 16658.html

This is essentially correct, but could have been a lot longer. As for the crime itself, this is not a whodunnit. Guede did it. All the rest is tabloid trash.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:31 pm

I've spent the early afternoon reading reviews from the TIFF screenings of "The Face of an Angel." Suffice it to say that from an artistic point of view the film is either being panned, or labelled as a well intentioned mess.

As far as the case itself is concerned - the reviews are all over the map. Some call Meredith "the American". One reviewer admits to having been a friend of Barbie Nadeau's in Rome and complains that the film goes off track when protagonist Thomas "discovers her genitals".

Others say the case has not been solved and there's no likely future candidate to pin the murder on. Others blame Knox herself for creating the media circus in the first place. There is only spotty mention at all I could find of the Frank Sfarzo character, Edoardo, who comes the closest to cracking the case in the film, citing police incompetence and brutality.

The most revealing duality in the film is Simone Ford/Edoardo. Simone (Nadeau) only wants to take the facts of the case to a level deep enough to monetize her writing about it. Edoardo actually knows why the cops screwed up so badly.

Even though I thought the film was good, and was a fitting eulogy to Meredith Kercher (in the final coda), film professionals seem to be panning it. It will be shown again in London in October. Who knows if it will make theatres.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Annella » Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:27 pm

Bill Williams wrote:I've spent the early afternoon reading reviews from the TIFF screenings of "The Face of an Angel." Suffice it to say that from an artistic point of view the film is either being panned, or labelled as a well intentioned mess.

As far as the case itself is concerned - the reviews are all over the map. Some call Meredith "the American". One reviewer admits to having been a friend of Barbie Nadeau's in Rome and complains that the film goes off track when protagonist Thomas "discovers her genitals".

Others say the case has not been solved and there's no likely future candidate to pin the murder on. Others blame Knox herself for creating the media circus in the first place. There is only spotty mention at all I could find of the Frank Sfarzo character, Edoardo, who comes the closest to cracking the case in the film, citing police incompetence and brutality.

The most revealing duality in the film is Simone Ford/Edoardo. Simone (Nadeau) only wants to take the facts of the case to a level deep enough to monetize her writing about it. Edoardo actually knows why the cops screwed up so badly.

Even though I thought the film was good, and was a fitting eulogy to Meredith Kercher (in the final coda), film professionals seem to be panning it. It will be shown again in London in October. Who knows if it will make theatres.



Oh dear!!! Were Simone and Edoardo friends in this movie? Even bedmates?? If that's the case, will not go down well with the pro guilt peeps. One little bit. :lol:
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:45 pm

Annella wrote:Oh dear!!! Were Simone and Edoardo friends in this movie? Even bedmates?? If that's the case, will not go down well with the pro guilt peeps. One little bit. :lol:

No, no, no, no, no. If I left that impression about bedmates, that is wrong.

It is the fictional Thomas and Simone Ford who are bedmates.

Edoardo and Simone are part of the circle of journalists (with people like Nick Pisa) who freely associated with one another during the trials, argued about minutiae and had various successes in monetizing their writing. They were friends; but for the purposes of the film combative colleagues. When Edoardo hears that Thomas is in town to do a film, Edoardo writes up a script for the movie.

Simone bristles at the attempt, and Edoardo says (with full-on Sfarzo sarcasm): "Why should you be the only one to make money off of this?"

Edoardo is also a real estate owner and blogger, so is not exactly a parallel to Frank Sfarzo. But, no, there was no implied or actual physical relationship between Simone and Edoardo.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Annella » Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:39 pm

'The Italian concept of judicial truth does not trouble itself with reality; it controls the narrative by controlling the past"
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:50 pm

Annella wrote:A new and interesting review..... http://www.biography.com/news/face-of-a ... ew-trailer

Yes, this was one in the survey. A few mistakes.... TFOAA makes no mention at all of the 2014 reconviction, this reviewer thinks it does (did he see the film?). People leaving the theatre not knowing any better would have thought the case over with the acquittals.

The biggest mistake is that this reviewer completely ignores Edoardo, the Frank Sfarzo character.

Then there's this.... "The case is infamous, though Kercher's name isn't immediately recognizable." The reviewer fails to mention that one of the goals of the film is to memorialize Meredith and make her name known. Winterbottom succeeds very well on that score, and unlike others does it without having to degrade Amanda.

The final coda is a very nice and appropriate memorial to Meredith which stands on its own.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Teddy » Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:28 pm

So basically Barbie Latza Nadeau has sold herself again. Would any honest author allow her book to be distorted to this extent, and bask in the media coverage of it? I even wonder why Winterbottom credited Nadeau at all - he could have made this film without any reference to her at all.
Amanda Knox: "According to Mignini, we found Meredith at the villa and said, Hey, that stupid bitch. Let’s show Meredith. Let’s get her to play a sex game. I was horrified. Who thinks like that?".... indeed, who thinks like that?
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:23 pm

Teddy wrote:So basically Barbie Latza Nadeau has sold herself again. Would any honest author allow her book to be distorted to this extent, and bask in the media coverage of it? I even wonder why Winterbottom credited Nadeau at all - he could have made this film without any reference to her at all.


An executive likely bought the rights initially. They then looked for a writer, director, and producer. They probably did not like the book but was stuck with what they had. As such, they decided to change things as they saw fit but wanted to cover their butts. I have this happens a fair amount with movies based on books.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:53 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Teddy wrote:So basically Barbie Latza Nadeau has sold herself again. Would any honest author allow her book to be distorted to this extent, and bask in the media coverage of it? I even wonder why Winterbottom credited Nadeau at all - he could have made this film without any reference to her at all.


An executive likely bought the rights initially. They then looked for a writer, director, and producer. They probably did not like the book but was stuck with what they had. As such, they decided to change things as they saw fit but wanted to cover their butts. I have this happens a fair amount with movies based on books.

The point being, Barbie Latza Nadeau now has what she wants. Of all the original journalists, she's been by far the most successful in monetizing this.

As even mentioned in the film itself, when Edoardo says to Simone Ford, "Why should you be the only one making any money off this case?" Meow!!!!
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:19 pm

She certainly does not have the class of Mara Leveritt
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby KayPea » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:23 pm

Interesting how Cara was "played" as Amanda and ends up being not her, what a bait and switch. Instead, Cara is a British student having sex and using drugs, sorta like a British Virgin. hmmmmmmm
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:02 pm

KayPea wrote:Interesting how Cara was "played" as Amanda and ends up being not her, what a bait and switch. Instead, Cara is a British student having sex and using drugs, sorta like a British Virgin. hmmmmmmm

I missed this "bait and switch". Where was it?

But yes, that is the ultimate irony Winterbottom exposes. Remember, Nadeau's slutty little book was all about how Amanda had been turned by the drug-fueled, threesome oriented sex of Perugian student life. Nadeau meant it to explain how a naive, virtual teenager with an Angel Face, could within weeks be turned into a killer.

Winterbottom rejects the very thesis of the book he bought the rights to. It's not until Thomas encounters Edoardo (Farnk Sfarzo) and Melanie (a fictional Meredith-like student) that he begins to understand what had happened.

And, yes, when Thomas searches out Melanie at the bar at which she works, he says, "Do you know where I can get some cocaine?" Melanie, the Meredith-muse, says, "Give me your phone," and she enters the name/number of a cocaine dealer into it.

Remember the latest slur against Amanda, that she perhaps had the name/number of a cocaine dealer in HER phone? According to Winterbottom the only student in Perugia who was proven NOT to have such a number was Amanda, or the PLE would have exposed it long, long ago.

It was so common among the students that fictional Melanie had the information at her fingertips, and the PLE did not find one in Amanda's.

Ok, let's back up. This is only a film. But it is telling that Winterbottom needs to throw Nadeau's book into the proverbial trash to begin to understand what went on in Nov 2007. He also redefines who the "Angel Face" is.

Meredith. Since she was the first victim of this horrible saga, what's wrong with that?
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby KayPea » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:40 pm

Bill Williams wrote:
KayPea wrote:Interesting how Cara was "played" as Amanda and ends up being not her, what a bait and switch. Instead, Cara is a British student having sex and using drugs, sorta like a British Virgin. hmmmmmmm

I missed this "bait and switch". Where was it?

But yes, that is the ultimate irony Winterbottom exposes. Remember, Nadeau's slutty little book was all about how Amanda had been turned by the drug-fueled, threesome oriented sex of Perugian student life. Nadeau meant it to explain how a naive, virtual teenager with an Angel Face, could within weeks be turned into a killer.

Winterbottom rejects the very thesis of the book he bought the rights to. It's not until Thomas encounters Edoardo (Farnk Sfarzo) and Melanie (a fictional Meredith-like student) that he begins to understand what had happened.

And, yes, when Thomas searches out Melanie at the bar at which she works, he says, "Do you know where I can get some cocaine?" Melanie, the Meredith-muse, says, "Give me your phone," and she enters the name/number of a cocaine dealer into it.

Remember the latest slur against Amanda, that she perhaps had the name/number of a cocaine dealer in HER phone? According to Winterbottom the only student in Perugia who was proven NOT to have such a number was Amanda, or the PLE would have exposed it long, long ago.

It was so common among the students that fictional Melanie had the information at her fingertips, and the PLE did not find one in Amanda's.

Ok, let's back up. This is only a film. But it is telling that Winterbottom needs to throw Nadeau's book into the proverbial trash to begin to understand what went on in Nov 2007. He also redefines who the "Angel Face" is.

Meredith. Since she was the first victim of this horrible saga, what's wrong with that?



I meant "bait and switch" as in the references to Cara looking like Amanda, many thought she was playing Amanda at first glance. It seems that she was purposely used to that end with no clear reference to her has Melanie until the movie came out.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:51 am

KayPea wrote:I meant "bait and switch" as in the references to Cara looking like Amanda, many thought she was playing Amanda at first glance. It seems that she was purposely used to that end with no clear reference to her has Melanie until the movie came out.

I must be dull, because it took me a few minutes to realize that the Melanie character was fictional.

For those who think that Melanie is a sexual-muse for the equally fictional Thomas (a Winterbottom substitute inserted into the film) there is nothing in the film which backs that up.

So there we have it, the best way to get behind the real story of Perugia, acc. to Winterbottom, is to ignore the original journalists (save for Frank Sfarzo) and create two fictional characters to reply things.

Strangely this means tossing Nadeau's book into the trash, which is what happens essentially halfway through the film.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby carlofab » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:01 pm

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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:44 pm

carlofab wrote:PLAYLIST pegs it for a dog --

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/ ... e-20140911


Strangely, as cinema goes, there is perhaps little to disagree with in Kevin Jagernauth's review. It certainly explains why of the 350+ films screened at TIFF, Winterbottom's effort is generously allocated to the bottom third of what was in Toronto. Acc. to those who know more than me, there simply is no buzz at all on King Street about "The Face of an Angel". It's completely off the radar.

Still, Jagernauth misses a lot about the film, if the film is taken as a commentary on the trials that have plagued this case since 2009.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby roteoctober » Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:29 pm

From the quoted article:

There is indeed a streak of moralizing in "The Face Of An Angel" that's hard to stomach. Winterbottom clearly disdains the overheated media coverage of the trial ... However, Winterbottom's criticisms are somewhat shallow and don't acknowledge that the cross-continental nature of the crime and the superficially sexy aspects of it helped generate interest


due to the film's auntish indictment of tabloid culture, Winterbottom's message is tedious


It reads as a corporativistic defense of exactly that tabloid culture: if you dare to criticize them (and please notice they "helped generate interest") you are "shallow", "tedious", "auntish".

Bunch of bastards.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:05 pm

roteoctober wrote:From the quoted article:

There is indeed a streak of moralizing in "The Face Of An Angel" that's hard to stomach. Winterbottom clearly disdains the overheated media coverage of the trial ... However, Winterbottom's criticisms are somewhat shallow and don't acknowledge that the cross-continental nature of the crime and the superficially sexy aspects of it helped generate interest


due to the film's auntish indictment of tabloid culture, Winterbottom's message is tedious


It reads as a corporativistic defense of exactly that tabloid culture: if you dare to criticize them (and please notice they "helped generate interest") you are "shallow", "tedious", "auntish".

Bunch of bastards.

If accurate, then Winterbottom is losing this war.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby roteoctober » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:11 pm

I expect positive reviews in European circles of sophisticated movie goers ("cinefili") who dislike tabloid as a black plague (and also any form of popular, mass "culture"), but usually they don't get much following.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:27 pm

roteoctober wrote:I expect positive reviews in European circles of sophisticated movie goers ("cinefili") who dislike tabloid as a black plague (and also any form of popular, mass "culture"), but usually they don't get much following.

The premier in Toronto at the Winter Garden theatre had perhaps 600-800 people in the seats. Judging from the vast majority of questions, these viewers were Winterbottom-aficionados, well versed with his work.

Who knows, these may have been the sum total of his fans, all 800 of them!!!!! Judging by the "buzz" at TIFF, though, there could not have been many more!

The questions at the Q&A were perhaps in a ratio of 3/1 with regard to questions about his work and the techniques used in this film, vs. the case itself. These also included questions aimed at Beckinsale and Bruhl, with only one aimed at Cara Delevingne - what was it about this script which made you choose the film?
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby lonepinealex » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:01 am

I'm a fan of some of Winterbottom's work - sometimes I think he takes the meta-theatrical stuff a bit too far and it becomes tedious. I'd like to see this film if I ever get the chance.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:56 am

lonepinealex wrote:I'm a fan of some of Winterbottom's work - sometimes I think he takes the meta-theatrical stuff a bit too far and it becomes tedious. I'd like to see this film if I ever get the chance.

https://whatson.bfi.org.uk/lff/Online/default.asp?doWork::WScontent::loadArticle=Load&BOparam::WScontent::loadArticle::article_id=BF05D786-5673-4801-8215-531E6F558857&BOparam::WScontent::loadArticle::context_id=8C5D05B0-0290-4011-93EE-16101316176A

The Face of an Angel

A filmmaker struggles to turn a notorious real-life crime into a feature film in Michael Winterbottom’s moving new drama.

Oct 18, 2014 6:00 PM
Odeon West End, Screen 1
Goes on sale: 18-09-2014 10:00 AM

Oct 19, 2014 12:30 PM
Odeon West End, Screen 2
Goes on sale: 18-09-2014 10:00 AM
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:01 pm

Bill Williams wrote:
MichaelB wrote:Naseer Ahmad ‏@manfromatlan · 1m
I saw The Face Of An Angel at @TIFF_NET today. Disappointing on so many levels, will post review tomorrow. #CaraDelevingne was revelation!

If conman Naseer Ahmad doesn't like it...it's probably good.

The cheap bugger waited for the Monday showing.....

Did Ergon ever post a "review"?
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:42 am

Manohla Dargis of the NY Times:

"The festival’s generic organizational rubrics (Discovery, Special Presentations) don’t help. Michael Winterbottom was slotted into the Masters section with his godawful “The Face of an Angel,” about a director, Thomas (Daniel Brühl), trying to figure out how to make a movie about a young American in Italy (a stand-in for Amanda Knox) who’s been accused of murdering her roommate. In between drinking, drugging, spelling out the movie’s themes (journalists are parasites, etc.) and hanging out in Siena with friendly lovelies (Kate Beckinsale, Cara Delevingne), Thomas broods. He also pines — as does a man in Mr. Winterbottom’s “Trip to Italy” — about the child he’s left behind. In other words, it is all about a director’s struggle to make a self-indulgent work surely no one wants to see."
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby katy_did » Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:03 am

BBC video review: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-29128418.

One of the critics said "not perfect" but "I loved it", the other that the film is "hit and miss". They say the film has "made quite an impact" at the festival and describe it as "a pretty damning critique of a media culture in which journalists would rather speculate on what they don't know, rather than write about what they do".

I'm looking forward to seeing it, Winterbottom's work is always interesting if nothing else. Totally agree with roteoctober about there being an element of the media 'getting their own back' in some of their reviews (especially the one which describes the film as "auntish"!!). Another BBC review:

The Face of an Angel, directed by Michael Winterbottom, is a thought provoking film which looks not just at the antics of the media, but also explores the struggles of a filmmaker to find an honest narrative of a murder case as he reassess his own personal priorities. It’s a film inspired by crime, which ends up touching on love. It doesn’t totally work but it’s nicely ambitious and well worth watching.

Knowing other Winterbottom films, I suspect "doesn't totally work but it's nicely ambitious and well worth watching" is likely to be an accurate review!
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:00 am

katy_did wrote:BBC video review: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-29128418.

One of the critics said "not perfect" but "I loved it", the other that the film is "hit and miss". They say the film has "made quite an impact" at the festival and describe it as "a pretty damning critique of a media culture in which journalists would rather speculate on what they don't know, rather than write about what they do".

I'm looking forward to seeing it, Winterbottom's work is always interesting if nothing else. Totally agree with roteoctober about there being an element of the media 'getting their own back' in some of their reviews (especially the one which describes the film as "auntish"!!). Another BBC review:

The Face of an Angel, directed by Michael Winterbottom, is a thought provoking film which looks not just at the antics of the media, but also explores the struggles of a filmmaker to find an honest narrative of a murder case as he reassess his own personal priorities. It’s a film inspired by crime, which ends up touching on love. It doesn’t totally work but it’s nicely ambitious and well worth watching.

Knowing other Winterbottom films, I suspect "doesn't totally work but it's nicely ambitious and well worth watching" is likely to be an accurate review!

That sums it up nicely.

Here we are almost 7 years later waiting for the Italian courts to come up with an honest narrative, rather than speculation. Who knows, maybe Hellmann's verdict will be reconfirmed.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:58 am

Samson wrote:I read this synopsis a couple of times, did you write this from an actual viewing Bill? Fascinating.

Yes, Sept 6, 8 pm, Winter Garden Theatre, Toronto International Film Festival.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:06 pm

Bill Williams wrote:
MichaelB wrote:Naseer Ahmad ‏@manfromatlan · 1m
I saw The Face Of An Angel at @TIFF_NET today. Disappointing on so many levels, will post review tomorrow. #CaraDelevingne was revelation!

If conman Naseer Ahmad doesn't like it...it's probably good.

The cheap bugger waited for the Monday showing.....

Did Ergon ever post a "review"?
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Annella » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:26 pm

Bill Williams wrote:
Bill Williams wrote:
MichaelB wrote:Naseer Ahmad ‏@manfromatlan · 1m
I saw The Face Of An Angel at @TIFF_NET today. Disappointing on so many levels, will post review tomorrow. #CaraDelevingne was revelation!

If conman Naseer Ahmad doesn't like it...it's probably good.

The cheap bugger waited for the Monday showing.....

Did Ergon ever post a "review"?


Not seen one, and he hasn't put one up on Gill's book like he promised either! Oh wait....he did. At at the comments section of some blog. :lol:
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:09 pm

Annella wrote:Not seen one, and he hasn't put one up on Gill's book like he promised either! Oh wait....he did. At at the comments section of some blog. :lol:

Has **any** guilter/hater tried a review of the film?
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Samson » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:29 am

It is good to see an unbiased detailed and objective review of the film.

Daniel Bruhl is a filmmaker trying to make sense of a situation made unknowable by the media feeding frenzy,Italy's corrupt and unreliable justice system, rumour, ambiguity, and his own midlife crisis.

http://www.straight.com/movies/742186/v ... e-too-wide

Actually I exagerate for effect, but nevertheless, this line would not emanate from the fanatically devoted, Mr Peter Quennell.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby roteoctober » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:34 pm

From the article linked above:

It's ultimately a little unsatisfying, and the shots at tabloid culture are barely worth making


HA, woe to those who dare to touch the tabloids!

Too much money involved?
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:24 pm

roteoctober wrote:From the article linked above:

It's ultimately a little unsatisfying, and the shots at tabloid culture are barely worth making


HA, woe to those who dare to touch the tabloids!

Too much money involved?

I took this comment to mean the opposite.

Truly, the shots Winterbottom is taking at tabloid culture is hardly worth making - in the sense that it is hardly worth making the point that French and Russian Olympic Ice Dance judges are corrupt. Why is it surprising or controversial to make the claim, much less make a whole film about it? It is simply a given, that French and Russian judges will collude.

Still - the point needs making, apparently. The Barbie Latza Nadeau's of the world, the Nick Pisa's of the world, and the Andrea Vogt's of the world are representative of the tabloid trash - indeed, they are the reason (acc. to Winterbottom) that it is now impossible to get at the truth of the murder. They are the reason why it is impossible to make a film about the murder.

Indeed: Nadeau, Pisa, and Vogt are the reason, ultimately, why Meredith has been forgotten through it all. This is a point Winterbottom wishes to make - and make it so much, that his concluding coda for the film is the memorial to Meredith that the tabloid trash-journalists denied her.

All this is with the exception of the way Frank Sfarzo is depicted in the film, as per my tag-line below. If one's interest is solving this crime, then don't go and see Winterbottom's film - so says even Michael Winterbottom.

Read Frank Sfarzo.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Screen Name Pending » Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:02 pm

The screenplay of this movie is a work of fiction.
If they made a movie about what really happened, it would be a comedy.
However, it's about a real girl and her real death, so that would be in poor taste.
If I wrote the screenplay and I could install some fictional elements based on what I assume happened, I could write a way better story than this movie.
In the fictional Italy everyone owes each other favors.
When Rudy got arrested in Germany, There were some people in Perugia who must have owed him some really big favors.
While he could not avoid doing time, they could make his sentence shorter.
The plan was knock off a few years by opting for a fast track trial, and knock off a few more by ratting out the other people with whom he committed the crime.
Rudy killed her alone, so to find his accomplices they had to use their imagination.
Amanda's DNA was all over that apartment ( except for Meredith's room.) She and her boyfriend were the only people they could blame it on.
Now Mignini and his friends did not need to prove that Amanda did it or was even there, they just needed her and Raffael to be on trial, so Rudy could roll over on them and get his sentence reduction. This would get him out of prison while he was still a young man.
In an attempt to make the trial something someone would take seriously he called in a few favors owed to him by some news reporters. They would print a story about AK & RS really did the murder, he would make it into a sex game gone wrong. This would make it something interesting to entertain the newspaper's readers.
I suppose the plan was that Rudy would get his sentence reduction, then AK & RS would not be needed. However after reading about the case in the papers, the jury assumed that it would not have gotten printed if it wasn't true.
During deliberations the consensus of opinion was that they wouldn't do this now, but back when they were crazy kids they probably would. And the verdict was guilty.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:48 pm

The Face of an Angel has been seen in South Korea and Brazil.

Canada 6 September 2014 (Toronto International Film Festival)
Brazil 3 October 2014 (Rio de Janeiro International Film Festival)
South Korea 3 October 2014 (Busan International Film Festival)
UK 18 October 2014 (London Film Festival)
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby LondonSupporter » Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:04 am

Screen Name Pending wrote:The screenplay of this movie is a work of fiction.
If they made a movie about what really happened, it would be a comedy.
However, it's about a real girl and her real death, so that would be in poor taste.
If I wrote the screenplay and I could install some fictional elements based on what I assume happened, I could write a way better story than this movie.
In the fictional Italy everyone owes each other favors.
When Rudy got arrested in Germany, There were some people in Perugia who must have owed him some really big favors.
While he could not avoid doing time, they could make his sentence shorter.
The plan was knock off a few years by opting for a fast track trial, and knock off a few more by ratting out the other people with whom he committed the crime.
Rudy killed her alone, so to find his accomplices they had to use their imagination.
Amanda's DNA was all over that apartment ( except for Meredith's room.) She and her boyfriend were the only people they could blame it on.
Now Mignini and his friends did not need to prove that Amanda did it or was even there, they just needed her and Raffael to be on trial, so Rudy could roll over on them and get his sentence reduction. This would get him out of prison while he was still a young man.
In an attempt to make the trial something someone would take seriously he called in a few favors owed to him by some news reporters. They would print a story about AK & RS really did the murder, he would make it into a sex game gone wrong. This would make it something interesting to entertain the newspaper's readers.
I suppose the plan was that Rudy would get his sentence reduction, then AK & RS would not be needed. However after reading about the case in the papers, the jury assumed that it would not have gotten printed if it wasn't true.
During deliberations the consensus of opinion was that they wouldn't do this now, but back when they were crazy kids they probably would. And the verdict was guilty.


This is a pretty good summary of what happened up to the point where you say that AK and RS would not be needed. In Italy, once you are in the frame, you are in for keeps and Mignini would have known this. What he underestimated was the level of international interest in the case, obviously from the USA and the UK in particular.

This kind of thing is routine in Italy. It happens all the time. It is lazy, arrogant, careless and sloppy. It shows that there is little interest in truth and justice in that country and that few people in crime detection and prosecution are ever held accountable for their actions. If Amanda had not been American and Meredith had not been British, few people outside Italy would have noticed the case. It would still be going on but there would not be movies about it. It is business as usual for the Italians.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:54 am

carlofab wrote:Screen Media Films is reported to have acquired U.S. distribution rights for "Face of an Angel". Curiously their website does not yet confirm this.

Here are some of their new releases:

Derby Dogs
Dude's where's my Dog
Evil Feed
Green Card Warriors
Live Nude Girls
Bring me the Head of the Machine Gun Woman
Battle of the Undead.

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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:04 am

Bill Williams wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Teddy wrote:So basically Barbie Latza Nadeau has sold herself again. Would any honest author allow her book to be distorted to this extent, and bask in the media coverage of it? I even wonder why Winterbottom credited Nadeau at all - he could have made this film without any reference to her at all.


An executive likely bought the rights initially. They then looked for a writer, director, and producer. They probably did not like the book but was stuck with what they had. As such, they decided to change things as they saw fit but wanted to cover their butts. I have this happens a fair amount with movies based on books.

The point being, Barbie Latza Nadeau now has what she wants. Of all the original journalists, she's been by far the most successful in monetizing this.

As even mentioned in the film itself, when Edoardo says to Simone Ford, "Why should you be the only one making any money off this case?" Meow!!!!

I have no way of knowing if Dan O. has this right, but the film has now been seen in London. Out of all the questions a U.K. audience would have about the film, this seems to be a biggie. Why'd they even need Barbie Latza Nadeau's book? Just so that Nadeau could get a cameo in the scene as reporters are reporting on the murder on Nov 2 outside the cottage? Just so that Nadeau could pal-around with Beckinsale in Rome during filming and eat overpriced salads with her?

Judging by Italy's defamation laws, it is possible that Nadeau might even have an action against Winterbottom and Co. based on the way she is portrayed.

As TomG would say: Hoots!
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby pmop57 » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:29 am

My problem with films about this case is that the fictional part (or call it tragic comedy) was already written by the Prosution and the Judges.
The problem with introducing "somebody owed RG something" would only be of value if the result would be an answer to the questions, who owed what to RG of such importance to ruin two lives. Of cause I could invent anything but I do not see any evidence to backup such a story.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:28 pm

Are there any **new** reviews from the U.K. press, following last weekend's showing at the London Film Fest?

I get the feeling that the theatre I was in in Toronto six weeks ago was filled with Winterbottom-a-philes. And why not, there were 350+ titles to choose from at the Toronto Festival, and to get into that theatre one must have really wanted to be there. And it being primarily a Canadian audience, the subject matter was not at the top of the list for attendance....

The Q&A afterwards was 1/3 about the case, but 2/3 about Winterbottom's filmography, and where this film fit. I'm not a follower of Winterbottom's and that's not why I was there to begin with.

I am getting the sensation that I am perhaps the only person in the world (outside of that viewing) who actually liked it as a film - leaving aside the subject matter for a minute. That audience of 900+ gave it warm applause at the end - perhaps because of the touching memorial to Meredith.

What some are calling a muddled sequence of scenes, I thought was appropriate.... which is where it weds back into the subject matter. The first load of tabloid journalists made a muddle of the whole thing!
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:34 pm

It's now listed on the Screen Media Films page. I probably missed it....

http://www.screenmedia.net/project/the-face-of-an-angel/
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:45 pm

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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:20 pm

It had not occurred to me how misleading Winterbottom's film portrayal of the Nov 5/6 interrogations was, until reading Nigel Scott's review.

And **specifically** misleading it was. There was probably a good reason why Winterbottom was forced to mislead his audience, or else he'd have to leave out any reference to the interrogation all together.

Truly the interrogation scene had both Knox and Sollecito very emotionally flat, but with just enough intensity, as if they were having a serious discussion with a friend at Starbucks over some pressing issue. But at base, it does not portray a scene which even Anna Donnino, the translator, said she walked into at 12:30 am. She said it was a chaotic scene where she was forced to act as a mediator between Ficarra and Knox. This was the chaos of communication breakdown, Winterbottom completely ignores this.

But more than this, the ONLY visible character in the interrogation, and the ONLY one with any dialogue in the film is at one point Amanda, then Raffaele.

There is no one else shown in the interrogation scenes. Both Raffaele and Amanda are talking to someone off camera, someone who never speaks. It's basically a shoulder and head shot of each in their turn, there is no dialogue from off screen - just Raffaele and Amanda in a soliloquy. It has been suggested that Winterbottom became minimalist because of potential for his own fears of defamation from Perugia. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall during re-writes of the screen-play around that issue alone.

I had not thought of it until now, but the way that was handled lends credence to Mignini claiming these were "spontaneous declarations". Winterbottom is forced to play into Mignini's hand. But how else does Winterbottom include the content, while at the same time avoiding defamation lawsuits from Perugia?

It suddenly becomes clear the genius of Mignini wedding the calunnia charge with the murder charge at trial. Even filmmakers cannot take Mignini on with the conduct of the interrogation, lest defamation come hammering down. I'll say one thing about Mignini, he is a skilled prosecutorial strategist.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby pmop57 » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:28 pm

Bill Williams wrote:It had not occurred to me how misleading Winterbottom's film portrayal of the Nov 5/6 interrogations was, until reading Nigel Scott's review.

And **specifically** misleading it was. There was probably a good reason why Winterbottom was forced to mislead his audience, or else he'd have to leave out any reference to the interrogation all together.

Truly the interrogation scene had both Knox and Sollecito very emotionally flat, but with just enough intensity, as if they were having a serious discussion with a friend at Starbucks over some pressing issue. But at base, it does not portray a scene which even Anna Donnino, the translator, said she walked into at 12:30 am. She said it was a chaotic scene where she was forced to act as a mediator between Ficarra and Knox. This was the chaos of communication breakdown, Winterbottom completely ignores this.

But more than this, the ONLY visible character in the interrogation, and the ONLY one with any dialogue in the film is at one point Amanda, then Raffaele.

There is no one else shown in the interrogation scenes. Both Raffaele and Amanda are talking to someone off camera, someone who never speaks. It's basically a shoulder and head shot of each in their turn, there is no dialogue from off screen - just Raffaele and Amanda in a soliloquy. It has been suggested that Winterbottom became minimalist because of potential for his own fears of defamation from Perugia. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall during re-writes of the screen-play around that issue alone.

I had not thought of it until now, but the way that was handled lends credence to Mignini claiming these were "spontaneous declarations". Winterbottom is forced to play into Mignini's hand. But how else does Winterbottom include the content, while at the same time avoiding defamation lawsuits from Perugia?

It suddenly becomes clear the genius of Mignini wedding the calunnia charge with the murder charge at trial. Even filmmakers cannot take Mignini on with the conduct of the interrogation, lest defamation come hammering down. I'll say one thing about Mignini, he is a skilled prosecutorial strategist.


But how would you define the character of such a "strategist"? And what does the strategist know and what is the driving "force" when he starts his "strategic" game?
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby roteoctober » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:03 pm

Watch out, I should personally watch the movie to be sure, but a statement uttered in a cold, detached soliloquy (with everything silent around) may also point to its unreality, to something unnatural and hence not true or not genuine ... sometimes it is not easy to "read" great directors as it's not easy to read great writers, as for example with the many "levels of meaning" of Dante's Divine Comedy.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby LondonSupporter » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:30 am

UK London Metro review pretty much concurs with mine apart from the interpretation of the Delvingne seaside episode.

http://metro.co.uk/2014/10/18/cara-dele ... s-4910914/
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:19 am

roteoctober wrote:Watch out, I should personally watch the movie to be sure, but a statement uttered in a cold, detached soliloquy (with everything silent around) may also point to its unreality, to something unnatural and hence not true or not genuine ... sometimes it is not easy to "read" great directors as it's not easy to read great writers, as for example with the many "levels of meaning" of Dante's Divine Comedy.

This is a stretch. This would mean that Winterbottom purposely crafted a scene so nuanced and deeply imbued with hidden meaning that it was missed by all. Judging by his use of dream sequences and outright fantasy-scenes I doubt that subtlety was his intention.....

Dante he is not. And I like him!
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby LondonSupporter » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:28 am

Winterbottom doesn't really do subtle.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:06 am

LondonSupporter:

One of the things picked up at the first Toronto screening of"The Face of An Angel", was that Winterbottom was in essence, defaming the Perugian authorities.

Was this picked up upon in London? In Toronto the Q&A was focussed mainly about Winterbottom and his filmmaking.....

.... but for those who asked about the case itself, there seemed to be general agreement that Winterbottom was calling the cops (and Stefanoni in her brief court appearance) complete fools and boobs.

?????
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby LondonSupporter » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:22 am

In London, nobody raised the subject of the case except me. Other questions were about the concept and directing. One person asked about the 'ghost' figure that appears in one scene. Apparently this was an accidental effect that was left in. One asked the women ('Amanda' and 'Meredith' were on stage) how they approached their roles. One question was about how Winterbottom and the writer came up with the plot and how the structure took shape. (What structure?)
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:50 am

LondonSupporter wrote:In London, nobody raised the subject of the case except me. Other questions were about the concept and directing. One person asked about the 'ghost' figure that appears in one scene. Apparently this was an accidental effect that was left in. One asked the women ('Amanda' and 'Meredith' were on stage) how they approached their roles. One question was about how Winterbottom and the writer came up with the plot and how the structure took shape. (What structure?)

This may be where you and I differ.

I thought the structure was like this:

Thomas meets Simone and is introduced to her book.

Thomas tries to understand the "Siena" (Perugia) that the foreign students would have experienced, acc. to Simone's book.

Thomas tries to engage the murder case acc.to all this.

This goes nowhere.

Thomas is introduced to the journalists.

Thomas tries to understand the case, as it is reported by the tabloid money-grubbers.

This goes nowhere.

Thomas now engages Frederico (Edoardo?) who is one of the reporters, a local blogger.

Thomas is exposed to the corrupt ineptness of the police and prosecution.

This goes nowhere, mainly because the case now-muddued by an inept PLE and money-grubbing stringers has turned this into a Dante-esque Italian drama.

If anything, this is where Winterbottom "goes off the rails", casting aside the case for his own Dante-esque decent into hell, and then pulled back into his tour through paradise by Melanie'sintervention (Dante's Beatrice, and the name of his daughter who he's alienated from).

The conclusion comes when Thomas finally casts off Simone's book (Barbie Latza Nadeau's, "Angel Face: Sex, Murder and the Inside Story of Student Killer Amanda Knox.") and embraces Dante's Beatrice for a tour of the paradise Melanie, Meredith and Amanda came for from overseas.

Then there's a concluding memorial to Meredith, including touching homilies from her father.

There - that's the structure. I thought it worked. Winterbottom has slain at least one dragon with the film and it is this:

Guilters say that it is Knox and her mythical PR machine which has purposely erased Meredith's memory from this tragedy.

Winterbottom puts the blame for forgetting Meredith, squarely on the tabloids. It's a given that the major news outlets were not going to pay for A-list journalists to camp out in Perugia for 4 years to cover this. So they were content with paying stringers, clamouring for a paycheque. As Egan from the NYTimes found out when he eventually went to Perugia, he discovered the pressure on these C-list stringers to sluttify their news copy for the tabloids back home; what was at stake was their pay.

And through all that, Meredith was forgotten.

I don't think this film is going to win any awards, and might last a week in theatres upon release. It might run three weeks in Seattle.

But there is structure here, and I believe the structure actually mirrors the confusing content as pushed out from PLE, law enforcement in Perugia. You can only go so far into the crap Mignini et al. "leaked" to the media, when you discover it doesn't go anywhere.

As Thomas says at the end of the journalists' segment, "Are you saying that she's guilty because she had sex?"

And then......... Simone (Nadeau) ends up in Thomas's room because it just so happens that night she's not sleeping with one of the other journalists! As you yourself said, Winterbottom exposes the guilter heroes as being morally two levels below anything they heaped on Knox.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby LondonSupporter » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:10 pm

That's a plausible structure, though I got no sense that Thomas was doing any of this logically and he was not communicating this to his backers. You are right about the journalists (though as an aside, your comments should not apply to Follain, who was not in the film and is not a stringer but is full time Italy correspondent for the Sunday Times. That is why his book is so disappointing. He swallowed Mignini hook, line and sinker when there is a real story of police and judicial corruption that the Sunday Times would have exposed back in the 1970s when it was a real investigative newspaper.)

Winterbottom might think he has made an art film but he is just portraying a director stumbling around and failing to get to grips with a project, just as he was doing in real life. I don't think you can use a real murder trial in this way because the facts (or confusion) about the real case is always going to be more important than whatever everyone else gets up to while living off the case and their stories are inevitably trivial by comparison. Lifetime made a film that implied guilt. This one does not. Maybe somebody will do it properly when it is all over but that will be at least five years hence or maybe never. It will have to explain the corruption and dishonesty of the cops and lawyers and how the Kerchers were misled. I don't know if the public will ever be ready for that.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:10 pm

LondonSupporter wrote:That's a plausible structure, though I got no sense that Thomas was doing any of this logically and he was not communicating this to his backers. You are right about the journalists (though as an aside, your comments should not apply to Follain, who was not in the film and is not a stringer but is full time Italy correspondent for the Sunday Times. That is why his book is so disappointing. He swallowed Mignini hook, line and sinker when there is a real story of police and judicial corruption that the Sunday Times would have exposed back in the 1970s when it was a real investigative newspaper.)

Winterbottom might think he has made an art film but he is just portraying a director stumbling around and failing to get to grips with a project, just as he was doing in real life. I don't think you can use a real murder trial in this way because the facts (or confusion) about the real case is always going to be more important than whatever everyone else gets up to while living off the case and their stories are inevitably trivial by comparison. Lifetime made a film that implied guilt. This one does not. Maybe somebody will do it properly when it is all over but that will be at least five years hence or maybe never. It will have to explain the corruption and dishonesty of the cops and lawyers and how the Kerchers were misled. I don't know if the public will ever be ready for that.

This is what makes the human race so intriguing. We can say the same thing and draw differing conclusions.

"....a director stumbling around and failing to get to grips with a project, just as he was doing in real life."

So..... once the rights are bought, and the leads cast, Paul Viragh (screenwriter) calls Winterbottom in and says, "Y'know if you want to make this a whodunnit, that is not going to be very interesting. Guede did it. Obviously. If you want to make this an exposé about Italian judicial corruption, you'd better hire a lawyer because the crazy prosecutor is still around suing everyone he can. Besides, that's not news. They charge seismologists with crimes for not being able to predict earthquakes in Italy."

"But I think I can save it, Michael, so listen...."

"This is bloody hard to write. But we've spent all that money. So let's make a film about how bloody hard it is to write this film..... no, stay with me on this....."

"We'll throw in some Dante, name the fictional filmmaker's estranged daughter 'Beatrice' for the Dantephiles out there.... and then let another Beatrice-like young waif save the filmmaker from the hell of having to have read Nedeau's slutty book."

"This Beatrice can also be a stand-in for the girl who was murdered, and can save us from having to follow Nadeau's trashy narrative. Hell, we'll call this girl 'Melanie', and she can lead the filmmaker through Perugia.... ah, er, Siena....."

"But the kicker will be we'll make Nadeau look as trashy as possible... both as a journalist and as a sleep-around."

"Deal?"

Me, I thought he came to grips with this project in the only way possible, since it really isn't a whodunnit. Guede did it. And it was a tragically ordinary murder (which does not make it any less devastating for those who are close).
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby LondonSupporter » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:56 am

I think we are agreed that it is a rubbish film. Maybe he did the best he could in the circumstances. Maybe he should not have made the film at all.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:28 am

LondonSupporter wrote:I think we are agreed that it is a rubbish film. Maybe he did the best he could in the circumstances. Maybe he should not have made the film at all.

Not agreed at all. It has many redeeming features. Very definitely some other film should be made. They may have got off to a bad start on this one by buying Barbie Latza Nadeau's book, and then finding that they needed to write a screenplay against the grain of the book.

They even needed to make Barbie look like a bit of a ****, both journalistically as well as using the criteria she herself used to judge Knox - sex and drugs. But what does Nadeau care, she's out "montetized" every other original journalist.

Will Beckinsale be on the podium at Oscar time? No. Will Winterbottom? He doesn't even need to rent a tux.

I may have been in the only theatre where the gathered actually warmly applauded the film. Granted, they may have been the only 900 people on the planet to call themselves Winterbottomphiles.

You'll have to say more why you think the film is rubbish. It definitely has a structure which it delivers on.....
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Mafiabuster » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:44 pm

I think in about 100 years time we will get a proper film showing what 'really' happened.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby LarryK » Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:15 am

LondonSupporter wrote:I think we are agreed that it is a rubbish film. Maybe he did the best he could in the circumstances. Maybe he should not have made the film at all.

At least it can't possibly be as bad as the Lifetime film (though I haven't seen either one.)

Mafiabuster wrote:I think in about 100 years time we will get a proper film showing what 'really' happened.

Hopefully much less than 100 years!
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby LondonSupporter » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:02 am

Bill Williams wrote:
LondonSupporter wrote:I think we are agreed that it is a rubbish film. Maybe he did the best he could in the circumstances. Maybe he should not have made the film at all.

Not agreed at all. It has many redeeming features. Very definitely some other film should be made. They may have got off to a bad start on this one by buying Barbie Latza Nadeau's book, and then finding that they needed to write a screenplay against the grain of the book.

They even needed to make Barbie look like a bit of a ****, both journalistically as well as using the criteria she herself used to judge Knox - sex and drugs. But what does Nadeau care, she's out "montetized" every other original journalist.

Will Beckinsale be on the podium at Oscar time? No. Will Winterbottom? He doesn't even need to rent a tux.

I may have been in the only theatre where the gathered actually warmly applauded the film. Granted, they may have been the only 900 people on the planet to call themselves Winterbottomphiles.

You'll have to say more why you think the film is rubbish. It definitely has a structure which it delivers on.....[/

A film can have redeeming features and still be a rubbish film. There may be good acting, some good scenes, it may even succeed in conveying some insight but the director needs to know where it is starting, where it finishes and how is is going to get there. It may be a simple thriller with facts set out in a logical sequence so that we can follow the plot, or it may be philosophocal and layered with messages about the meaning of life and troubled characters who are trying to understand themselves. Winterbottom tries for the latter but fails because his project is not thought through. There was a murder and there is a trial that is being reported. There is a director whose life has disintegrated. That's it. There are some images thrown in - stabbing and being stabbed and the monster in the alley scene. They seem gratuitous - designed to cause an instant response without adding insight beyond underlining that Thomas is disturbed and should probably lay off the coke.

Why exploit Meredith Kercher, Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito to do this? Why bring the case into a movie if the director has nothing to say except 'Meredith has been forgotten?'. Damned if I know.

I would like to see an objective review from someone who has never heard of the Kercher murder. I doubt that this is possible. Everyone who sees the film will arrive at it with some prior knowledge of the case. The film should work regardless of the device (criminal case) that is used to bring the characters together. I don't think it does. If the murder is just the backdrop, Winterbottom is exploiting real people and a real tragedy merely because he thinks that this will get customers into the cinema. This is about as cynical as you can get.

Thanks for your input Bill. It has made me think about the film in more depth and question my reasons for dismissing it. This has made me even more critical of it.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby LondonSupporter » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:08 am

LondonSupporter wrote:
Bill Williams wrote:
LondonSupporter wrote:I think we are agreed that it is a rubbish film. Maybe he did the best he could in the circumstances. Maybe he should not have made the film at all.

Not agreed at all. It has many redeeming features. Very definitely some other film should be made. They may have got off to a bad start on this one by buying Barbie Latza Nadeau's book, and then finding that they needed to write a screenplay against the grain of the book.

They even needed to make Barbie look like a bit of a ****, both journalistically as well as using the criteria she herself used to judge Knox - sex and drugs. But what does Nadeau care, she's out "montetized" every other original journalist.

Will Beckinsale be on the podium at Oscar time? No. Will Winterbottom? He doesn't even need to rent a tux.

I may have been in the only theatre where the gathered actually warmly applauded the film. Granted, they may have been the only 900 people on the planet to call themselves Winterbottomphiles.

You'll have to say more why you think the film is rubbish. It definitely has a structure which it delivers on....


A film can have redeeming features and still be a rubbish film. There may be good acting, some good scenes, it may even succeed in conveying some insight but the director needs to know where it is starting, where it finishes and how is is going to get there. It may be a simple thriller with facts set out in a logical sequence so that we can follow the plot, or it may be philosophocal and layered with messages about the meaning of life and troubled characters who are trying to understand themselves. Winterbottom tries for the latter but fails because his project is not thought through. There was a murder and there is a trial that is being reported. There is a director whose life has disintegrated. That's it. There are some images thrown in - stabbing and being stabbed and the monster in the alley scene. They seem gratuitous - designed to cause an instant response without adding insight beyond underlining that Thomas is disturbed and should probably lay off the coke.

Why exploit Meredith Kercher, Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito to do this? Why bring the case into a movie if the director has nothing to say except 'Meredith has been forgotten?'. Damned if I know.

I would like to see an objective review from someone who has never heard of the Kercher murder. I doubt that this is possible. Everyone who sees the film will arrive at it with some prior knowledge of the case. The film should work regardless of the device (criminal case) that is used to bring the characters together. I don't think it does. If the murder is just the backdrop, Winterbottom is exploiting real people and a real tragedy merely because he thinks that this will get customers into the cinema. This is about as cynical as you can get.

Thanks for your input Bill. It has made me think about the film in more depth and question my reasons for dismissing it. This has made me even more critical of it.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Mafiabuster » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:50 am

LarryK wrote:
Mafiabuster wrote:I think in about 100 years time we will get a proper film showing what 'really' happened.

Hopefully much less than 100 years!


Yes, 30? 50? Only once Mignini and Stefanoni have died will it be safe for the truth to come out. Hopefully preasure from the US government and a full and complete interview with Amanda exposing what really happened on the night of 5th Nov 2007 will uncover the corruption before then.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:02 am

LondonSupporter wrote:A film can have redeeming features and still be a rubbish film. There may be good acting, some good scenes, it may even succeed in conveying some insight but the director needs to know where it is starting, where it finishes and how is is going to get there. It may be a simple thriller with facts set out in a logical sequence so that we can follow the plot, or it may be philosophocal and layered with messages about the meaning of life and troubled characters who are trying to understand themselves. Winterbottom tries for the latter but fails because his project is not thought through. There was a murder and there is a trial that is being reported. There is a director whose life has disintegrated. That's it. There are some images thrown in - stabbing and being stabbed and the monster in the alley scene. They seem gratuitous - designed to cause an instant response without adding insight beyond underlining that Thomas is disturbed and should probably lay off the coke.

Why exploit Meredith Kercher, Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito to do this? Why bring the case into a movie if the director has nothing to say except 'Meredith has been forgotten?'. Damned if I know.

I would like to see an objective review from someone who has never heard of the Kercher murder. I doubt that this is possible. Everyone who sees the film will arrive at it with some prior knowledge of the case. The film should work regardless of the device (criminal case) that is used to bring the characters together. I don't think it does. If the murder is just the backdrop, Winterbottom is exploiting real people and a real tragedy merely because he thinks that this will get customers into the cinema. This is about as cynical as you can get.

Thanks for your input Bill. It has made me think about the film in more depth and question my reasons for dismissing it. This has made me even more critical of it.

Of all the agendas that have been generated by this case, the one highlighted is the one which is the fire in the belly of many people. It's actually not a bad agenda! I have a buddy in the UK completely unconnected with this, where he and I occasionally get into it with this. He's quite articulate that the highlighted part is is sole reason for even commenting. Me being me, I slip in something like, "Yeah, ok, but does that justify sending away two innocents?" His response is that the "crime" part of it has nothing to do with him - solving the crime won't bring Meredith back, so he's actually not interested. He's not interested in either vilifying the accused or in defending them.

So our own gripe with one another is at what level and in what circumstances can a filmmaker take a tragicly public event (made public through no fault of the Kerchers, AK or RS) and make comment on it?

I've just discovered that Winterbottom's ex-wife has also written a roman à clef novel, which is a fictionalized accounting of their marriage.


In relation to Descent, (ex-spouse Sabrina) Broadbent said, "I didn't really set out to write a novel... I was writing about a woman who gets to that point in her life that everything seems to be collapsing."


Maybe the two of them will spend the next few years of their creative lives dealing with cathartic projects - although, I think this will only add to your distaste for Winterbottom!

So perhaps this is another reason to dislike this film, because of this peculiar "layer" of a multilayered piece. I don't know how much more I can say, really, except to say that taken on its own I thought TFOAA was a moderate success, in that for me, W. actually did hold together the layers, and came out with a semi-satisfying conclusion. (I hope I am not overplaying my "like" of the film, for argument's sake!)
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Samson » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:47 pm

Mafiabuster wrote:
LarryK wrote:
Mafiabuster wrote:I think in about 100 years time we will get a proper film showing what 'really' happened.

Hopefully much less than 100 years!


Yes, 30? 50? Only once Mignini and Stefanoni have died will it be safe for the truth to come out. Hopefully preasure from the US government and a full and complete interview with Amanda exposing what really happened on the night of 5th Nov 2007 will uncover the corruption before then.

I see no reason to wait at all. The screenplay is written, with great detail from the two autobiographical books particularly, written at times when there was an illusion of safety, and no reason to essay anything but the unvarnished truth. There are 60 minutes that need careful scripting, from when Rudy climbed in the window till he left with the phones, money, housekeys and the murder weapon. Much can be deduced from his skype call. The greatest indictment of Italy is that any one should be fearful. A film is too short, the full narrative requires at least 6 hours. It clearly can not be made in Italy, but that in no way precludes the full truth being delivered.
Justice is an issue not a word. Find one issue that isn't fair and change that, and that's justice.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby LondonSupporter » Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:16 pm

Samson wrote:
Mafiabuster wrote:
LarryK wrote:
Mafiabuster wrote:I think in about 100 years time we will get a proper film showing what 'really' happened.

Hopefully much less than 100 years!


Yes, 30? 50? Only once Mignini and Stefanoni have died will it be safe for the truth to come out. Hopefully preasure from the US government and a full and complete interview with Amanda exposing what really happened on the night of 5th Nov 2007 will uncover the corruption before then.

I see no reason to wait at all. The screenplay is written, with great detail from the two autobiographical books particularly, written at times when there was an illusion of safety, and no reason to essay anything but the unvarnished truth. There are 60 minutes that need careful scripting, from when Rudy climbed in the window till he left with the phones, money, housekeys and the murder weapon. Much can be deduced from his skype call. The greatest indictment of Italy is that any one should be fearful. A film is too short, the full narrative requires at least 6 hours. It clearly can not be made in Italy, but that in no way precludes the full truth being delivered.


A television series would be needed to tell the whole story. Guede's connections and the real story of why the framing occurred and who made the key decisions in the police/prosecution team has not come out yet and maybe never will. Did Guede have support in the criminal community or law enforcement? This is more than likely. Who is paying Biscotti? Who sent him to Germany before Guede got back to Italy? How far does the influence of the Caporeli family reach?
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Winterbottom's 2006 A Mighty Heart

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:20 pm

I just saw Winterbottom's 2006 film, A Mighty Heart, about Daniel Pearl's death in Pakistan. It features Angelina Jolie as Pearl's pregnant wife, Mariane Pearl.

I'm not exactly a Winterbottom-phile, and I have seen this film before - was just not aware it was his film until today. My guess is that W. could be accused of similarly "making money' off of this senseless tragedy, too.... but what struck me was that the style of the narrative was somewhat similar to the style of The Face of an Angel.

It seemed to be a bit of a mess, story-telling wise. Handy-cams to give the docudrama feel to it, with lots of hard-to-follow conversational dialogue amongst many in the room. But, I liked it as a film.

Winterbottom also showed a bit of disdain for the way the press handled the Pearl murder, esp. in his depiction of how they pursued Mariane for a story.... and one scene where a journalist asks Mariane if she'd seen the video of the beheading. W. is clear his point of view, as Jolie responds with a fierce, "You would ask me this? Have you no decency?"

There were plenty of those zingers in TFOAA aimed at the real life Barbie Latza Nadeau and Nick Pisa.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby european neighbour » Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:17 pm

The screening two days after 25th May is noticed:
http://www.umbria24.it/meredith-nuovo-f ... 46004.html
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby european neighbour » Fri May 22, 2015 6:44 am

Our main TV-station reports about the film: Amanda Knox as a movie-booster, boring film, but brilliant Cara Delevigne.
http://orf.at/stories/2279486/2279312/
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby LarryK » Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:29 am

A fascinating take by Luca Cheli on this film. His position is that to understand the film you need a background in Dante's Divine Comedy, beyond the reach of most film critics. Winterbottom is making a Dante-esque analogy with the people and events in Perugia. Even though I don't know Dante and haven't seen the film, this review completely changes my impressions compared to what has already been stated here. This would be valuable for all to read.

http://www.groundreport.com/an-interpre ... terbottom/

BTW, 8 years now, RIP Meredith, may full justice be done for you and for the innocents who were drawn into your tragedy.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby kermit the frog » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:20 am

I won't watch it. It was my suspicion from the start that this was initially planned to be just another best selling sex-crime movie with a reality background. After the book story rights were already bought and the title announced the "real" story got lost somewhere in the course of the trial. So the options were to cancel the project with the cost of investment and reputation or just carry on without a story. After all it is more important to hire some impressing actors/actresses, isn't it? :D
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:08 am

Places in The Face of An Angel, where Michael Winterbottom slams Barbie Nadeau, known as "Simone" in the film.
*****************************
Simone: If you're going to tell the story, make it a fiction. The only way to tell the truth is to make it a fiction. "There were so many things I couldn't put in my book that were true."

Film alleges that Simone (Nadeau) ran into Knox and Sollecito the day after the murder; has Simone regretting she'd missed a world exclusive, putting only in her notes, "She's a dud, he's boring." She later regrets missing a world exclusive.

Nick Pisa is introduced as an asshole, badgering Thomas about his ex-wife moving in with her on-screen partner, and Pisa says he could write about it if Thomas wants. Simone apologizes for Pisa.

After a court session, Simone is interviewed for (CNN?) and gives a fashion statement as to what Knox wore to court, dressing "demurely" so as "not to make the same mistake again".

Edoardo (Frank Sfarzo) cautions Thomas right in front of Simone, "You should be careful with this one, she seems so nice when you met her, but when she writes she turns into a real bitch."

When Simone says that Edoardo (Sfarzo) always has a price, Edoardo retorts, "Do you think you are the only one allowed to make money from this?" Then Simone tells Thomas, "His blog had stuff on it that nobody else knew. We had to read it just to keep up. He has time and he knows everybody."

Simone accuses Edoardo (Sfarzo) of passing a rumour that she and (Nick Pisa) were having an affair, which she interpreted as a, "way of attacking anyone who didn't believe she was innocent." She had to tell her husband who then left her.

Thomas is in his hotel room doing coke. Simone comes in - gives Thomas the scene of the crime video. He asks if Simone is sleeping with Pisa (Joe). Her answer, "not tonight." Then the anal scene. Then Thomas does more coke. Thomas accuses her of simply writing fashion reports, which causes her offence. He accuses her of writing lurid stuff. She says, "Jesus, at least Joe (Nick Pisa) doesn't lecture me after we fuck."

Simone and Thomas interview a boy from downstairs. Simone asks the boy if the court was right, Knox the bad girl the victim the good girl. The boy basically says the two were both normal girls.

At the end, Thomas says, "Thank God this is over." Simone says, "No there'll be another appeal. This one's going to run and run, Thank God." Simone then leaves with (Nick) Pisa, where she says he can carry her bags.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby Bill Williams » Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:24 am

Five months ago, TomZ made this comment about The Face of An Angel, and I am forced to agree, "Or, allow me to offer an alternative hypothesis. Winterbottom understood everything about the case perfectly well. He understood that Amanda and Raffaele were absolutely innocent. But he simply lacked the courage to tell that story."

It is telling watching the "extra features" on the DVD. Winterbottom himself seems to avoid like the plague the obvious - take Dante of of the film, take Thomas's angst about his daughter and failed marriage out of the film, and what is left is Barbie Nadeau fumbling around, Nick Pisa being a shit-journalist (his own words), and Frank Sfarzo getting it right in his blog, and the Hellmann court coming to the right verdict.

Despite that being 1/2 the film, Winterbottom won't comment. At the Toronto Festival, he claimed that the obvious notion of innocence for AK/RS and incompetence for the PLE as portrayed did not put him or the film at legal peril in Italy.

Yet he constantly and consistently ignores the message of his own film - AK and RS are innocent.

If I were conspiratorial, I would suggest that this is because The BBC is one of the co-producers - and that someone within, upon seeing that bias, got to Winterbottom.
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Re: Winterbottom's 2014 The Face of an Angel

Postby ScifiTom » Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:56 am

To everyone

Ok I finally got a chance to see the film and it took me a while of that I have no clue of what I am watching. Let me explain something, to you all. I never ever been embrass of what this movie did even not just that part. I have a blog, and this is my blog!!!

http://scifi75.blog.com/

My blog is out of date, until further notice, and I am trying hard enough to move on with something new. After watching the film and looking hard into it, of the unknown reporter, of saying: You got to tried harder or work harder, even sure some parts were surpising and by looking at this. Is this something to do with me? I honnestied don't have a clue. So now I am going to give you some detail I agree or not to agree, even this is my thoughts of the film and I am going to give out detail even only my detail into the color of red and you are more welcome to respond, even I would have updated this on my blog, into my own term. But the spam of my blog is being blocked and I can not get into my blog at all. So I am block from my blog until I find a new place!!!

Is it possible I might use Square one: as a blog or website of my Anne Hathaway style, just a rumor, into crime wave & wrongful convicted with Anne Hathaway of crime wave. I am only saying this. But here I go!!!

First I am shock! Is Michael Bottom talking about me? It couldn't be me. Could it? That what bothering me into the whole film even it like the unknown reporter who never wrote the story. But let stick to the facts of what wrong with this film!!!

1. The kissing scene, sure they all kiss, and we call them murders. I defended Amanda of saying: A kiss is not going to kill you, beside my guardian Angel does it all the time, with her boyfriend while she was in college!!!

2. Amanda never use a weapon in the video. She only use the video to drink the wine!!!

3. A woman for Guilano Mignini. Wow now it a she!!!

4. We all love cartoon into a crime wave!!!

5. It true Rudy did say: Amanda was never there. But not in the courtroom. He refuse to answer so can a mitted to believe the guilt to go with Prosecutor Guilano Mignini, even it only refuseful of crime!!!

6. Me with Nadue. Let get one thing straight if the film was about me. I am only guessing, into a matter of time, even both my mom & dad are criminal lawyers even they both went to law school, even only my dad did do more work with it. But both of my family would never let me, go alone until I learn more basic skills!!!

a) I am deaf and I was born deaf, even I only graduate from high school with a diploma and 3yrs of college, even I didn't do well but finish with skills program!!!

b) I need more time to roll tate my hand even I am weak with it of nerves to drive or go behind the wheel, even I don't have a driving licences!!!

c) My family will never let me to go to out of America, even let me. I wonder why? If Michael Bottom talked with private crime with PQ about me, into movies, because I am a fan of celebrity with my Anne Hathaway, of why I care of creating a website for me to be her number 1 fan!!!

7. It so easy to climb a wall. Let not forget that part. Remember the man who climb the wall, even if Rudy climb the wall!!!

8. I never took drugs even I join a club to say No to drugs. Beside I join it through my school year, of crime wave!!!

9. why are we cheating? That is the answer of a cheating scandal, and it was made into the film!!!

10. But finally the ending of not guilty of crime, of unknown, even I only said that because if I had proof of who committed the crime, would we know the new college girl who or what am I watching, with the reporter. So my answer is to think about this film and I am going to grade it C- even why? Because if I direct the film. I would had done it different, and here how I done it!!!

1st: I bring a black guy & white guy with blonde hair 2 men walk in to climb like spiderman and break into the room and burgies the mess and ruin it, while one went to the other room, to make more mess!!!

2nd. The black bump into his girlfriend who is white. He doesn't want her to know, even they kiss, to make love while white blonde guy still trying to find something, even the black guy went to use the potty!!!

3rd: The towel of scream, when the black guy went bathroom, he heard the scream, even leave his crap of dumbt into it, and confront the white guy with blonde hair, and tell him? What did you do, tell him to go while he cover the towel with the bed cover over a foot!!!

4th: Amanda enter the room even the door was open even why was it open. It should never been open!!!


I am going to do more later even anyway I am going to leave it that way for a film if I pick who is who? So there you have it, everyone and talk to you soon everyone!!!
TMJ

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