What’s wrong with the media?

Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Mafiabuster » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:46 pm

Supernaut wrote:
kermit the frog wrote:I'd suggest you to prove those accusations before publicly spreading them. What makes you better than them otherwise?


Are you as keen to see the anonymous source who has accused Amanda, via Reuters or some-such, "prove" their accusations that she was/is a cocaine user, that she was in "regular contact" via her cell-phone with a coke-dealer in Perugia with who she had a relationship "of a sexual nature"?

Well?


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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Supernaut » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:51 pm

Mafiabuster wrote:...<snip?

I know of no connections between Guantanamo and this case.

...<snip>



No parallels, nothing analogous - as you say, no connection.

But wait!

Amanda Knox comes from the USA, who's "government" or "administration" is stomping its army boots on the faces of millions of people across the middle-East.

Now I see the "connection"!

All Americans are "hypocrites", including Amanda Knox, and she therefore deserves what she's getting, simply because she's American!

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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby kermit the frog » Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:38 pm

Supernaut wrote:
kermit the frog wrote:I'd suggest you to prove those accusations before publicly spreading them. What makes you better than them otherwise?


Are you as keen to see the anonymous source who has accused Amanda, via Reuters or some-such, "prove" their accusations that she was/is a cocaine user, that she was in "regular contact" via her cell-phone with a coke-dealer in Perugia with who she had a relationship "of a sexual nature"?

Well?


I'm not really as keen because I don't think anyone expects me to believe this BS. Am I supposed to assume the unproven allegations against the Kerchers are of the same 'quality' then?
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:24 pm

Mafiabuster wrote:
McGirr wrote:
Who do I think is behind it?

An indifferent society. Amanda in neither British nor Italian. The British tabloids feel their readers would be more interested in the usual crazed sex stories then a story about a foreign countries biased or potentially corrupt judiciary. However I am surprised the Italian tabloids behave this way, that is rather pathetic of them. At the end of the day they are condemning themselves.

An indifferent society would be my answer. Perhaps a unquantifiable sub concious anger at American hypocrisy. Poor Raffaelle left behind in guantamno bay. No heroic return to save him.

I have a question?

Why are their still so many low key people locked up in Guantanamo bay for over 12 years and why do the american media never report about it? Such hypocrisy and you go on to accuse the victims families of being behind this.Are the victims of 911 families behind the detention of the Guantamano bay detainees because if i recall a one of the 911 families victims who spoke up about 911 was chewed up and spat out on the O'Reilly Factor by Bill O'Reilly. It came across as a warning to anyone else who wanted to speak out.

Have you ever tried to google auto-correct the word spelling Guantanamo bay, it doesn't exist.In fact it' is underlined in red as a misspelling with tantamount being the only alternative word. That's pure ignorance.


I know of no connections between Guantanamo and this case.

There has been a marked increase of anti-knox media being spread in the last few weeks. The increase and timing of this slander cannot be a coincidence. Somebody is determined to see Amanda extradited. I don't think the Police and courts would be too bothered about whether Amanda serves her sentence or not, so who is really keen to see her behind bars?

The Machine (aka Hairy Rag) has suggested that it is Raf. Since Machine/Rag is a known vicious liar this could be a smokescreen. The Rag or the Kerchers could be behind this new hate campaign. That's all I have suggested.

P.S. Arline Kercher doesn't know Amanda and has no desire to get to know her (which is immensely sad in my opinion), and yet she felt she could say, "AK, RS and RG killed Meredith because she was everything they are not." How dare she dis Amanda in this way!

Amanda is a very special person, loving, extraordinarily kind, graceful, beautiful of soul, generous and is a shining example to the rest of humanity. The fact that the Kerchers don't see this shows them up for who they really are in my opinion.


You asked me what is wrong with the media; a very general question. There doesn't have to be a connection between Amanda Knox and Guantamno Bay per say in my reply. Guantamno Bay and USA is not part of the Geneva convention the EC convention and if it does recognise international human rights it flaunts them.

The US media is by far the worst offender in propaganda and war. It is naive to think the same methods are not being employed in the media presently.


As the various examples below will show, common tactics in propaganda often used by either side include:

Using selective stories that come over as wide-covering and objective.
Partial facts, or historical context
Reinforcing reasons and motivations to act due to threats on the security of the individual.
Narrow sources of “experts” to provide insights in to the situation. (For example, the mainstream media typically interview retired military personnel for many conflict-related issues, or treat official government sources as fact, rather than just one perspective that needs to be verified and researched).
Demonizing the “enemy” who does not fit the picture of what is “right”.
Using a narrow range of discourse, whereby judgments are often made while the boundary of discourse itself, or the framework within which the opinions are formed, are often not discussed. The narrow focus then helps to serve the interests of the propagandists.


I think that is almost word for word what Amanda Knox is up against. To say Guantamno Bay is not connected or the IRaq war in not connected is naive.


Ottosen identifies several key stages of a military campaign to “soften up” public opinion through the media in preparation for an armed intervention. These are:

The Preliminary Stage—during which the country concerned comes to the news, portrayed as a cause for “mounting concern” because of poverty/dictatorship/anarchy;

The Justification Stage—during which big news is produced to lend urgency to the case for armed intervention to bring about a rapid restitution of “normality”;

The Implementation Stage—when pooling and censorship provide control of coverage;

The Aftermath—during which normality is portrayed as returning to the region, before it once again drops down the news agenda.

O’Kane notes “there is always a dead baby story” and it comes at the key point of the Justification Stage—in the form of a story whose apparent urgency brooks no delay—specifically, no time for cool deliberation or negotiating on peace proposals. Human interest stories … are ideal for engendering this atmosphere.

O’Kane’s reference to the dead baby story is about the 1991 Gulf War where a U.S. public relations firm got a Kuwaiti Ambassador’s daughter to pose as a nurse claiming she saw Iraqi troops killing babies in hospitals. The purpose of this was to create arousal and demonize Iraq so war was more acceptable.

I can not see any difference in strategy or methodology. Why are they employing these tactics against Amanda Knox? They like to oil the machine, it's like a target practice. They get a kick out of seeing their propaganda machine work.

Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception.

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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:17 pm

Supernaut wrote:BTW, the "allegation" is;

that the ever-silent ("dignified") Kerchers are not actually "silent" AT ALL.

That apart from the rabid utterances of their mouth-piece in Italy (their lawyer Francesco Maresca, aiming for the millions of euros he and they spy at the end of the rainbow), both John Sr. and John Jr. are, on the sly, using connections/influence in the tabloids and teevee to propagandise against Amanda and Raffaele.

We KNOW John Sr. is a lifelong gutter-press writer. We KNOW John Jr. works at the BBC.

Hence, to me, the allegations I iterated above are rather more credible than the story that has recently appeared - out-of-the-blue - about Amanda Knox's "coke habit".

The difference between the two "stories" - that the Kerchers are money-grubbing thugs vs. Amanda Knox is a crack-whore - is that the latter is being endorsed by the mass-media.

ETA >> which is to say; there is considerable circumstantial evidence that the Kerchers are money-grubbing thugs, but conversely ZERO evidence that Amanda Knox is a crack-whore (notwithstanding assertions from an unknown source splattered across the press/media.)


Can you prove John Sr and John Jr are using connection's in the media. It's rather cowardly and nasty for you to attack the Kercher's without just cause. A gutter-press writer!! What does that make you. What exactly do you want out of this sad tragedy. To get drunk ( self admitted ) and write nasty slanderous allegations against the victims family. How is that helping anyone but your own demons. Try not to drink and write online at the same time which you have admitted to doing.

The problems with the media go back decades if not centuries, they are a business and not a social service. They serve their shareholders and in turn serve the bottom line and not the truth. You simply cannot blame all of this on a family whose only involvement was the tragic death/murder of their daughter.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby kermit the frog » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:12 am

While it is certainly helpful to have connections to the media world for some "hidden slandering" I also still believe that the media world is driven by money rather than the interests of an individual. It is unfair, wrongful and unjust by itself.

How many people know the name "Kercher" compared to the number of people knowing the name "Amanda Knox"?

The money is in the recognition value of names and what people associate with them when reading headlines. Murder stories are all-time bestsellers and there are many journalists who are constantly searching. We know many of them who are almost exclusively working with the "Amanda Knox" name. Not to mention the bunch of guilter psychopaths spending their pathetic lives by spreading lies.

How many journalists have been working for the BBC and what are their primary interests? The allegation that a single one of them influences the media world is doubtful to me. It MIGHT be or it is nonsense.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:27 am

kermit the frog wrote:While it is certainly helpful to have connections to the media world for some "hidden slandering" I also still believe that the media world is driven by money rather than the interests of an individual. It is unfair, wrongful and unjust by itself.

How many people know the name "Kercher" compared to the number of people knowing the name "Amanda Knox"?

The money is in the recognition value of names and what people associate with them when reading headlines. Murder stories are all-time bestsellers and there are many journalists who are constantly searching. We know many of them who are almost exclusively working with the "Amanda Knox" name. Not to mention the bunch of guilter psychopaths spending their pathetic lives by spreading lies.

How many journalists have been working for the BBC and what are their primary interests? The allegation that a single one of them influences the media world is doubtful to me. It MIGHT be or it is nonsense.


I agree wholeheartedly. This connection must be Rupert Murdoch or Ann Cox Chambers or the Hearst family for me to even consider this wild allegation. How can you possibly say that all the International media; the USA news stories, and Italian news stories that are denigrating to Amanda Knox are the work of the Kercher's. What influence could they have on the dozens of US Media companies and hundreds of newspaper's that have reported on The Amanda Knox story.

Some of the most well balanced and properly researched stories have actually come from the British Media. It has been the British media that have represented Amanda Knox and Raffaele as innocent in many stories. Not even so much the USA.

We have one biased BBC documentary, that was truncated and poorly researched. It must be something specific and something tangible with an obvious connection where you can prove their was undue influence. Since when does the media ever properly represent people accused of crimes. For almost every miscarriage of justice case that has any media exposure there have been two conflicting theories documented. Darlie Routier story featured on Discoveries true Crime and portrayed her as guilty and presented a strong evidence of guilt against her. The Court TV documentary/drama starring ex NYPD detectives Jerry Palace and Reggie Britt in the series ''The Wrong Man'' demonstrates that Darlie Routier was put away on evidence too circumstantial and flimsy to put someone to death. It is not even unusual for the same media company to produce two conflicting theories or stories. Therefore i do not see why Perugia Murder case is any different in this respect. I do not agree with poor journalism but what i am pointing out is that this is unfortunately the norm and it is ridiculous to blame the victims family for what happens in the media.



You simply cannot blame the international media attention on the Kercher's.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby ScifiTom » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:41 am

Supernaut wrote:Who was it said "the root of all evil is love of money"?

This is what it feels like, for those who are following the travails of Amanda and Raffaele, to be confronted by "pure evil" in action.

But ........ as I've said before, there is no "evil", only human stupidity.

But actually, pure evil will do.


To Supernaut

Hey Supernaut, you sure do love the roots of money. But with me of saying money is not evil. I do too love money and yes we do have a supporter who support Amanda Knox even he a fan of money and here is that picture right now!!!

Image

It our good friend Donald Trump, even love him or hate him, he a huge fan of money with evil or no evil at all. The man is twisted for the money to sell the money and buy the money of that product of working detail!!!
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:57 am

ScifiTom wrote:
Supernaut wrote:Who was it said "the root of all evil is love of money"?

This is what it feels like, for those who are following the travails of Amanda and Raffaele, to be confronted by "pure evil" in action.

But ........ as I've said before, there is no "evil", only human stupidity.

But actually, pure evil will do.


To Supernaut

Hey Supernaut, you sure do love the roots of money. But with me of saying money is not evil. I do too love money and yes we do have a supporter who support Amanda Knox even he a fan of money and here is that picture right now!!!

Image

It our good friend Donald Trump, even love him or hate him, he a huge fan of money with evil or no evil at all. The man is twisted for the money to sell the money and buy the money of that product of working detail!!!



Good Point SciFiTom. Trump was a supporter of Amanda Knox. I see this as benign but should it be the other way around and he was a supporter of the Kercher's there is no doubt Supernaut would be using it in his conspiracy theory.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Supernaut » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:01 pm

McGirr wrote:Good Point SciFiTom. Trump was a supporter of Amanda Knox. I see this as benign but should it be the other way around and he was a supporter of the Kercher's there is no doubt Supernaut would be using it in his conspiracy theory.


Could you name a "supporter of the Kerchers" [sic]?

You can't, can you?

That's because no-one is doing so, publicly and openly.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Supernaut » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:13 pm

This is the thing;

is there someone, ANYONE, of any note who is advocating for the Kercher family in their "dignified" journey to €millions - oops, I mean, "the truth"?
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Supernaut » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:25 pm

There seem to be a lot of supporters for the Kercher's, and their pursuit of "justice".

The only problem is that they're all either anonymous or have no credentials of any kind.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Supernaut » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:54 pm

ScifiTom wrote:To Supernaut

Hey Supernaut, you sure do love the roots of money. But with me of saying money is not evil. I do too love money and yes we do have a supporter who support Amanda Knox even he a fan of money and here is that picture right now!!!

Image

It our good friend Donald Trump, even love him or hate him, he a huge fan of money with evil or no evil at all. The man is twisted for the money to sell the money and buy the money of that product of working detail!!!


Trump is a conspicuous "winner". Does he "love money"? I suppose he does.

But holding him up as an examplar is rather crass - he doesn't PRETEND to be anything but what he is.

There are other, much more "monied" people (in fact, dynasties) than him, who are very careful to stay out of the public eye.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby LarryK » Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:44 am

It looks like the current association of the Kerchers with the media coverage is speculative. While I don't give them a free pass to still be against Amanda, I don't agree with charging them with specific areas of malfeasance without evidence. We need to be as fair to them as known facts will allow.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Tablebeforme » Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:49 am

What about the BBC "documentary" Is Amanda Knox Guilty? Stephanie and Lyle were both interviewed and John Jr works for the BBC. That's not a conflict of interest? Since the doc clearly takes the poison of guilt? Could we say the interviews were done and the producers used them the way they wanted, without considering the feelings of the family? Maybe. Tabloid tv journalism is sleazy. But that doc just happens to support what we know of the Kercher's opinion AND JJ is an employee. Coincidence? You will have to decide that for yourself. Personally, I might be able to accept the coincidence if the info in the doc was at least factual.

So.....

What would happen if the situation were reversed? What if Kurt Knox worked for an American tv station and that station produced a documentary supporting Amanda's innocence? Would that be considered a coincidence? Would he be given the benefit of the doubt, lacking actual "proof" of his involvement, or would Kurt be accused of using his media connection?

I know we all want "proof". Sometimes we have to settle for what makes the most sense. I won't be going undercover at the BBC to find out for sure. IMO, whatever it is that is driving the Kerchers right now, it isn't a search for the real truth. So that alone, IMO, makes them suspect.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby lonepinealex » Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:14 am

Tablebeforme wrote:What about the BBC "documentary" Is Amanda Knox Guilty? Stephanie and Lyle were both interviewed and John Jr works for the BBC. That's not a conflict of interest? Since the doc clearly takes the poison of guilt? Could we say the interviews were done and the producers used them the way they wanted, without considering the feelings of the family? Maybe. Tabloid tv journalism is sleazy. But that doc just happens to support what we know of the Kercher's opinion AND JJ is an employee. Coincidence? You will have to decide that for yourself. Personally, I might be able to accept the coincidence if the info in the doc was at least factual.

So.....

What would happen if the situation were reversed? What if Kurt Knox worked for an American tv station and that station produced a documentary supporting Amanda's innocence? Would that be considered a coincidence? Would he be given the benefit of the doubt, lacking actual "proof" of his involvement, or would Kurt be accused of using his media connection?

I know we all want "proof". Sometimes we have to settle for what makes the most sense. I won't be going undercover at the BBC to find out for sure. IMO, whatever it is that is driving the Kerchers right now, it isn't a search for the real truth. So that alone, IMO, makes them suspect.


That documentary wasn't a BBC production, it was made by an independent - Peacock Productions (a UK off-shoot of NBC). The BBC bought it and broadcast it, but they weren't the only broadcaster to show it.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:25 am

lonepinealex wrote:
Tablebeforme wrote:What about the BBC "documentary" Is Amanda Knox Guilty? Stephanie and Lyle were both interviewed and John Jr works for the BBC. That's not a conflict of interest? Since the doc clearly takes the poison of guilt? Could we say the interviews were done and the producers used them the way they wanted, without considering the feelings of the family? Maybe. Tabloid tv journalism is sleazy. But that doc just happens to support what we know of the Kercher's opinion AND JJ is an employee. Coincidence? You will have to decide that for yourself. Personally, I might be able to accept the coincidence if the info in the doc was at least factual.

So.....

What would happen if the situation were reversed? What if Kurt Knox worked for an American tv station and that station produced a documentary supporting Amanda's innocence? Would that be considered a coincidence? Would he be given the benefit of the doubt, lacking actual "proof" of his involvement, or would Kurt be accused of using his media connection?

I know we all want "proof". Sometimes we have to settle for what makes the most sense. I won't be going undercover at the BBC to find out for sure. IMO, whatever it is that is driving the Kerchers right now, it isn't a search for the real truth. So that alone, IMO, makes them suspect.


That documentary wasn't a BBC production, it was made by an independent - Peacock Productions (a UK off-shoot of NBC). The BBC bought it and broadcast it, but they weren't the only broadcaster to show it.


They appear to be based in the USA. So much for blaming the Kercher's.

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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby kermit the frog » Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:04 am

Well, that BBC documentary was made by Vogt, wasn't it? I don't understand the need for speculation about the source of the guilter bias.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby lonepinealex » Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:18 am

kermit the frog wrote:Well, that BBC documentary was made by Vogt, wasn't it? I don't understand the need for speculation about the source of the guilter bias.


Exactly. There's really no need to look for a conspiracy here.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Supernaut » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:00 pm

lonepinealex wrote:
kermit the frog wrote:Well, that BBC documentary was made by Vogt, wasn't it? I don't understand the need for speculation about the source of the guilter bias.


Exactly. There's really no need to look for a conspiracy here.


Most people who have heard of Amanda Knox are, generally, unaware that the Kerchers are trying to obtain (extort?) €£$millions from her and Raffaele Sollecito.

Most people who have heard of Amanda Knox are, generally, unaware of the very existence of a certain Giuliano Mignini, and his past.

Most people who have heard of Amanda Knox are, generally, unaware of the very existence of a certain Rudy Guede, and his past.

It's almost as if a directive has been issued, to the effect that their names are to appear a maximum of once or twice in any given article (if it can't be avoided altogether), and that any paragraph mentioning them is to be no more than a handful of words long.

It seems to me rather like a "conspiracy of silence".
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby lonepinealex » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:09 pm

Well it isn't.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:39 pm

Allegations have been made against the Kercher family and against individual members such as John Kercher and his son. The allegation was that through John Kerchers connections in the media, a campaign of hate has been orchestrated against Amanda Knox. That the latest slanderous comments in the media connecting Amanda to class A Drugs ( which cannabis was at that time anyway!!) was the work of the Kercher family. Posters on this very thread and forum have branded the Kercher family as vile and branded them guilty of extortion and inciting hatred and other serious allegations. No evidence thus far has been produced to prove these allegations and further any evidence that has been put forward has proven to be weak and inconclusive.

However we do know there are connections to Amanda Knox on this very website. Our respected founder Bruce Fisher whom i cast no aspersions against is friends with Amanda Knox and posters here have met her in person. There may be even close friends and family.

My concern would be that it may be alleged that Amanda Knox has orchestrated an attack on the Kercher family viz a vis Injustice anywhere which has posters spread across JREF and other web forums. I would like to request that those making allegations against the Kerchers to stop out of respect for Amanda Knox because on the balance of probabilities every unfounded accusation you sharpen is a deeper cut on Amanda.

I think as we know whom these posters are thus far that Amanda is innocent of these allegations. However I think posters such as Tableforme and supernaut have created a paradox for me. I am find myself having doubts. I think a stringent policy should be in place on IAF to prevent cowardly attacks against the victims family which could be misconstrued as coming from Amanda Knox. I think these attacks are more likely doing her an injustice at this sensitive time. I might also add that Tableforme was one of the first posters here to have this blasé attitude where she criticises the Kercher family regularly and with unprecedented malice i have not seen by any other posters.

Just be careful who you invite to the table Supernaut, and i am not just talking about minors.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Supernaut » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:02 pm

McGirr wrote:

Allegations have been made against the Kercher family and against individual members such as John Kercher and his son. The allegation was that through John Kerchers connections in the media, a campaign of hate has been orchestrated against Amanda Knox. That the latest slanderous comments in the media connecting Amanda to class A Drugs ( which cannabis was at that time anyway!!) was the work of the Kercher family. Posters on this very thread and forum have branded the Kercher family as vile and branded them guilty of extortion and inciting hatred and other serious allegations. No evidence thus far has been produced to prove these allegations and further any evidence that has been put forward has proven to be weak and inconclusive.

However we do know there are connections to Amanda Knox on this very website. Our respected founder Bruce Fisher whom i cast no aspersions against is friends with Amanda Knox and posters here have met her in person. There may be even close friends and family.

My concern would be that it may be alleged that Amanda Knox has orchestrated an attack on the Kercher family viz a vis Injustice anywhere which has posters spread across JREF and other web forums. I would like to request that those making allegations against the Kerchers to stop out of respect for Amanda Knox because on the balance of probabilities every unfounded accusation you sharpen is a deeper cut on Amanda.

I think as we know whom these posters are thus far that Amanda is innocent of these allegations. However I think Tableforme and supernaut have created a paradox for me. I am find myself having doubts. I think a stringent policy should be in place on IAF to prevent cowardly attacks against the victims family which could be misconstrued as coming from Amanda Knox. I think that would be doing her an injustice at this sensitive time.

A month ban for anyone who mentions the Kercher family in a negative light should be in place henceforth.


Allegations by anonymous but "official" Italian sources have been made that Amanda Knox is guilty of certain criminal acts; specifically that she was a procurer and user of cocaine. This same anonymous but "official" source also makes the common slander that she had a relationship "of a sexual nature" with a coke dealer. IOW, that she is what's commonly referred to as a "crack-whore".


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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Supernaut » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:06 pm

"McGirr" would prefer that the Kerchers remain in the shadows, their motives unscrutinised, for Amanda's and Raffaeles's good, while the perpetual open-season on the latter and their families continues .......
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:08 pm

Supernaut wrote:
McGirr wrote:

Allegations have been made against the Kercher family and against individual members such as John Kercher and his son. The allegation was that through John Kerchers connections in the media, a campaign of hate has been orchestrated against Amanda Knox. That the latest slanderous comments in the media connecting Amanda to class A Drugs ( which cannabis was at that time anyway!!) was the work of the Kercher family. Posters on this very thread and forum have branded the Kercher family as vile and branded them guilty of extortion and inciting hatred and other serious allegations. No evidence thus far has been produced to prove these allegations and further any evidence that has been put forward has proven to be weak and inconclusive.

However we do know there are connections to Amanda Knox on this very website. Our respected founder Bruce Fisher whom i cast no aspersions against is friends with Amanda Knox and posters here have met her in person. There may be even close friends and family.

My concern would be that it may be alleged that Amanda Knox has orchestrated an attack on the Kercher family viz a vis Injustice anywhere which has posters spread across JREF and other web forums. I would like to request that those making allegations against the Kerchers to stop out of respect for Amanda Knox because on the balance of probabilities every unfounded accusation you sharpen is a deeper cut on Amanda.

I think as we know whom these posters are thus far that Amanda is innocent of these allegations. However I think Tableforme and supernaut have created a paradox for me. I am find myself having doubts. I think a stringent policy should be in place on IAF to prevent cowardly attacks against the victims family which could be misconstrued as coming from Amanda Knox. I think that would be doing her an injustice at this sensitive time.

A month ban for anyone who mentions the Kercher family in a negative light should be in place henceforth.


Allegations by anonymous but "official" Italian sources have been made that Amanda Knox is guilty of certain criminal acts; specifically that she was a procurer and user of cocaine. This same anonymous but "official" source also makes the common slander that she had a relationship "of a sexual nature" with a coke dealer. IOW, that she is what's commonly referred to as a "crack-whore".



Whatever supernaut. I think it shows how distracted this forum can get, Your all busy fighting with a suspect guilter OTFence meanwhile a new poster Tableforme just waltz's into the forums with her newly baptised bullshit and how she has seen the light of innocence and cast out the guilter and we all welcome her with open arms. The first thing she does is attack the Kercher family.

I find that highly suspicious. It's possibly also motive for the media. It was foolish of you to allow her to do this.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby kermit the frog » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:11 pm

Guilty until proven innocent? Is there at least any benefit in applying this standard here?
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:26 pm

kermit the frog wrote:Guilty until proven innocent? Is there at least any benefit in applying this standard here?


Sometimes people are guilty until proven innocent. In most countries under the Road traffic act's or codes the driver is tasked with the burden of proof. This applies to many other more pragmatic aspects of society and the law. Mostly in regard safety where immediate action is required.

That is why we have policies and draconian rules. It is preventative guidance. I sense Amanda's safety is at risk and I feel such measures are appropriate to safeguard against individuals using this forum to attack the Kercher's in the name of Amanda Knox. This requires immediate penalties.

It is really supernaut who helped expose this 'loophole' as it were in his drunken reckless way.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:58 pm

You may not have attacked the Kerchers with a hidden agenda Supernaut; and Tableforme may or may not have ulterior motives although i would like to confirm her identity before I truly trust her. So whether it is by accident or deliberate, whether it is a Fukushima or a Hiroshima it is my opinion that the actions of a few here on this forum has leaked to the media and in the eyes of a certain few journalists has justified their attack on Amanda Knox.

Some of what is wrong with the media is also what is wrong with the few posters that attack the Kercher's on this forum. You Supernaut therefore are what is wrong with the media ....you attention whore ;)
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby ScifiTom » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:16 pm

McGirr wrote:
ScifiTom wrote:
Supernaut wrote:Who was it said "the root of all evil is love of money"?

This is what it feels like, for those who are following the travails of Amanda and Raffaele, to be confronted by "pure evil" in action.

But ........ as I've said before, there is no "evil", only human stupidity.

But actually, pure evil will do.


To Supernaut

Hey Supernaut, you sure do love the roots of money. But with me of saying money is not evil. I do too love money and yes we do have a supporter who support Amanda Knox even he a fan of money and here is that picture right now!!!

Image

It our good friend Donald Trump, even love him or hate him, he a huge fan of money with evil or no evil at all. The man is twisted for the money to sell the money and buy the money of that product of working detail!!!



Good Point SciFiTom. Trump was a supporter of Amanda Knox. I see this as benign but should it be the other way around and he was a supporter of the Kercher's there is no doubt Supernaut would be using it in his conspiracy theory.


To McGirr

Well McGirr, I don't mind if Supernaut use it into a conspiracy theory. I truly don't think Donald Trump would ever support the Kercher's. The only person who supported the Kercher's was Pier Morgan on that CNN station, until he was FIRED, of saying: Your FIRED. So it is a battle of those 2 going against each other Trump vs Morgan and that the way I see it, and talk to you soon McGirr!!!
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby ScifiTom » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:21 pm

Supernaut wrote:
ScifiTom wrote:To Supernaut

Hey Supernaut, you sure do love the roots of money. But with me of saying money is not evil. I do too love money and yes we do have a supporter who support Amanda Knox even he a fan of money and here is that picture right now!!!

Image

It our good friend Donald Trump, even love him or hate him, he a huge fan of money with evil or no evil at all. The man is twisted for the money to sell the money and buy the money of that product of working detail!!!


Trump is a conspicuous "winner". Does he "love money"? I suppose he does.

But holding him up as an examplar is rather crass - he doesn't PRETEND to be anything but what he is.

There are other, much more "monied" people (in fact, dynasties) than him, who are very careful to stay out of the public eye.


To Supernaut

Supernaut, Donald Trump love his own money, even he a mint of being a greedy person with his money, even the way I say you love him or hate him, he going to be greedy of look how bad he is: He has at least 8-10 hotels and mostly of them are saying: Trump Plaza and some person or people will go to a hotel even they might see a Trump plaza hotel and some can't stand it, of driving by the hotel. Remember 2 or 3 weeks ago, a man got nasty and some how he put a pettion on it and people voted even Trump did win that bet, of some like the name and some don't like the name of Trump plaza and that all Supernaut. It mostly money of him being greedy even I am way better to use my head, more then him!!!
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby ScifiTom » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:49 pm

McGirr wrote:
You may not have attacked the Kerchers with a hidden agenda Supernaut; and Tableforme may or may not have ulterior motives although i would like to confirm her identity before I truly trust her. So whether it is by accident or deliberate, whether it is a Fukushima or a Hiroshima it is my opinion that the actions of a few here on this forum has leaked to the media and in the eyes of a certain few journalists has justified their attack on Amanda Knox.

Some of what is wrong with the media is also what is wrong with the few posters that attack the Kercher's on this forum. You Supernaut therefore are what is wrong with the media ....you attention whore ;)


To Supernaut & McGirr

Hey guys, seriously come on we can get this over with and move it, on. Beside this is media stuff of what wrong with media, even don't we all want the best for the media news or basic news. Or do we need to go against each other. I don't care who started it. No one started anything. So let forget the thing and move on for the media and that is that, and let focus of media. Would I like it, if I have to bring back my issue of my next door neighbor girl again. No I don't and I assume you McGirr wouldn't want that too. But Supernaut, you got to be careful and think of acting into goodness of being nice, and I know you can do that Supernaut, and McGirr just stay positive, and no one is going to attack the Kercher's at all!!!
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:05 pm

ScifiTom wrote:
McGirr wrote:
ScifiTom wrote:
Supernaut wrote:Who was it said "the root of all evil is love of money"?

This is what it feels like, for those who are following the travails of Amanda and Raffaele, to be confronted by "pure evil" in action.

But ........ as I've said before, there is no "evil", only human stupidity.

But actually, pure evil will do.


To Supernaut

Hey Supernaut, you sure do love the roots of money. But with me of saying money is not evil. I do too love money and yes we do have a supporter who support Amanda Knox even he a fan of money and here is that picture right now!!!

Image

It our good friend Donald Trump, even love him or hate him, he a huge fan of money with evil or no evil at all. The man is twisted for the money to sell the money and buy the money of that product of working detail!!!



Good Point SciFiTom. Trump was a supporter of Amanda Knox. I see this as benign but should it be the other way around and he was a supporter of the Kercher's there is no doubt Supernaut would be using it in his conspiracy theory.


To McGirr

Well McGirr, I don't mind if Supernaut use it into a conspiracy theory. I truly don't think Donald Trump would ever support the Kercher's. The only person who supported the Kercher's was Pier Morgan on that CNN station, until he was FIRED, of saying: Your FIRED. So it is a battle of those 2 going against each other Trump vs Morgan and that the way I see it, and talk to you soon McGirr!!!



Quote ''My sympathies to both families'' un-Quote this is from Piers Morgan Twitter after Amanda Knox's Aquittal. He openly states his sympathies to both the Knox and Kercher family.

What is a Kercher supporter anyway. The reason the media does not attack Meredith is because she is a murder victim and her family are also the victims. The reason the media does attack Amanda Knox is because she is the accused. This is what the media does, there are some well balanced articles and the reason for this is because it is miscarriage of justice but generally the media just reports on what the Court's decide and if a guilty verdict they follow with scorn and scandal and try to boost ratings from the story or they may just report the verdict in less publicised cases.

No journalist is going to attack the image of a sweet girl like Meredith who was brutally murdered. That would be journalistic suicide. Bad business and beside no editor would allow it. Instead they get the green light to attack Amanda Knox.

m-buster,supernaut et al:
Please explain to me what a Kercher supporter is? Is this a term unique to IAF?

I am guessing because the Kercher family had legal representation at the previous trial and have made communications viz a viz their lawyer that this involvement and effort could be described as the kercher campaign to have Amanda and Raffaele prosecuted or it could be described as the Kerchers efforts to have the person/s involved in their daughters murder prosecuted.

Maybe they are focused on Amanda and Raffaele or maybe they are focused on keeping the whole legal process moving to get to the truth behind their daughter's murder. This could be confused with the many crazy web forums purporting to represent the victim Meredith Kercher and their crazy views.

The Kerchers have a right to respect the memory of their beloved daughter and they have a right to seek the truth about her death.
I disagree with their interference in the Amanda and Raffaele defence to their wrongful conviction. If this interferences is not designed to seek out the truth then it is wrong. If they want to send an innocent person through the system as a means to get to the truth then this again is wrong. However it is possible the lawyer representing the Kerchers got over zealous and may even be a little corrupt and biased towards certain entities in the prosecution.


What i do know is the Kerchers have a right to seek the truth surrounding their daughters murder and they have a right to grieve and respect their memories of Meredith. They can post pictures and keep a website if they so wish.

Do you suspect that the Kerchers are harnessing the power of the guilters and haters and generally ignorant and confused to create a false shrine for Meredith. Why would they do that?

There is no such thing as Kercher supporter. Is there? The support for a victims family is natural and tempered by good reason and rationality and intelligence and of course compassion.

When you say Kercher supporters i imagine the Kercher's tapping into the guilters and creating a lynch mob with which to attack Amanda Knox. Since the lynch mob was already there. I can only define your term Kercher supporter as a member of the Kercher family that incites hatred against Amanda Knox. A rather sensitive and difficult situation considering that the purpose of a court is to punish the wrongdoer on behalf of the citizen. Since there is no evidence of the Kerchers inciting hatred against Amanda Knox directly I take it to mean that a kercher supporter is member of the Kercher family that harbours anger against Amanda Knox and wants to find solace in her conviction or the truth surrounding Merediths murder so that they may be free from their grief and move on with their lives without carrying the guilt of what happened to Meredith.

Did Amanda not remain in America declining to return to Italy for the re trial. Morally I see no difference. Amanda wants or would like the same closure the Kercher's want and to move on with their lives.

Once again i think the greatest harm to Amanda Knox came from this forum and their open views on the Kerchers. Along those lines and in continuation with what I said earlier. It this reasoning, and this natural understanding of the grieving that makes me suspicious of Tableforme. What mother would not at least understand this natural part of the otherwise systematic process. Why such a callous attack on the Kercher's from this wise Mother of 4 teenage daughter's.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:22 pm

Why not attack the Jurors that convicted Amanda Knox? Why not name and shame them. Attack them for their stupidity & for their lack of objective impartiality. Attack them for not getting it and going public and retracting their decision. How can I or any observer respect anyone attacking the victims family who struggle with their loss. The court is meant to represent objective impartiality. Be angry with them. For gods sake, do ye not see how much you could do and yet how little you have done. Attacking the victims family is not wise.

What ever the verdict the Kercher family will be at peace. They are part of the process too. There is no ''osmatic'' or ''organic'' totality of evidence that suggests Amanda or Raffaele are guilty. They should never have been convicted in the first place and apparently that is where the fustration with the media lies, because it is essential Amanda and Raffaele get their story out their. The problem with criminal appeals is that suspicion alone is sometimes enough to keep a conviction, no matter how
wrong; in place.

That is why it is so frustrating for Amanda and Raffaele and particularly Amanda because they want to show their is nothing suspicious to the world but the media has other motives and is kept well informed ( by that I mean is leaked pieces of the puzzle) by the prosecution and so keep's re inventing reasons for the public to be suspicious and this is perpetuated by the hand that feeds the media, a hand that will never reveal the full picture. Mignini for example was on Italian talk shows, he is practically a celebrity. So many influences and persuasions to puzzle.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:25 am

I have searched through the forum for references about the kercher's and this attack on the kercher's really has started with ''Tableforme'' only recently and has been perpetuated by Supernaut our resident drunk anti-IAF attention seeker. The timing also coincides with an equally bitter attack on Amanda Knox. I am not suggesting a conspiracy but Tableforme's negligence be it deliberate or reckless has resulted in causing harm or will ultimately cause harm. Mafia buster another relative newcomer started this attack at almost the same time.

Previous to 'tableforme' I have read murmurs of discontentment from one or two posters that the kerchers have not looked at the facts objectively and recognise an injustice is happening. That is almost a fair comment but in light of what has transpired in the last forthnight and with the our newcomer Tableforme and her unbridled attack on the kercher family. I think it would be very wise to to be most respectful when speaking about the Kercher family.

Roteoctober: I am not suggesting you have misspoke and I recognise you were lending your legal and cultural opinion.

There is endless discussion to be had on the Media and it's flaws but from henceforth there should not be one word spoken against the Kercher family. I am saying this for Amanda knox's welfare and also because there is no just cause for it. It is not fair to attack the kerchers while postulating in her defence without her consent, such attacks which I am sure she would never condone.

I am reporting Tableforme and Mafiabuster and I suggest supernaut you delete your comments.( I know you wont but i wont be reporting them either; your a grown man and you can manage your own affairs!)
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Annella » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:46 am

...Interjection .....McGirr, as an observer I have to say I certainly have not seen/read Roteoctober 'defend' attacks on the Kerchers! Maybe rereading his post will make it clearer?
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:02 am

Annella wrote:...Interjection .....McGirr, as an observer I have to say I certainly have not seen/read Roteoctober 'defend' attacks on the Kerchers! Maybe rereading his post will make it clearer?


Quote from my previous post.
Roteoctober: I am not suggesting you have misspoke and I recognise you were lending your legal and cultural opinion.


I actually stated as much in my previous post. Perhaps i am straying from my goal. I genuinely believe Tableforme is a professional journalist that came here to merge an anti-kercher element into the forum. I do not know why and i am not sure what was behind this.

I have more or less reviewed every post on this forum for the last 6 months. Not intentionally but more or less as a catch up to when i used to post here when it was injustice in Perugia. I really have read every new post and apart from the odd murmur from the odd poster wishing the Kerchers would realise the injustice facing Amanda and Raffaele i have never encountered any form of attack on the Kerchers.

A few weeks ago when a new poster arrived called 'Tableforme'. i was dazzled by her gifted writing like everybody else. The first time 'Tableforme' commented about the kerchers it caught my attention. It seemed out of place and took me by surprise. However it is only now i realise this was a deliberate sabotage by a professional. It is no secret that IAF has a very if not too liberal and laid back moderator approach. i think this was taken advantage of by these imposters. read 'tableforme' post about a drunk driver she knew. This is not only talent ,this woman writes with professional and experienced skill. Notice she cannot help let in some of her familiarity with journalism in her posts and the use of journalist lingo.

I am also suspicious of 'mafia buster' as he was particularly vicious in his attack on the kerchers and also a relative newcomer to IAF.(edit) Also 'numbers' a newcomer also made an attack in a post against the Kercher's and i am sorry to say as did 'anonsy'. I don't suspect 'Supernaut' he just harbours a little resentment against IAF and is a general trouble raiser who likes attention. I doubt he is even aware of what he is doing and in fairness it was his ranting about the Kerchers that made me realise what was happening or maybe the old fox knew all along. At this point in time, right now; I am not trying to have a go at Supernaut, but if that is how it is perceived maybe i am damaged goods too.

Amanda knox is connected to Injustice Anywhere personally and we know there are strict rules about what you can and can not say about Amanda and we also know she has friends and i think family that post here but certainly friends do. We know Bruce and Sarah are a friend of hers too. As tableforme/supernaut and/mafiabuster have suggested the kerchers are manipulating the media and are responsible for the article against Amanda Knox, however it could also be proven to a much greater probability that Knox is behind the attack on the kercher family right here on this very forum. Had tableforme gotten started that avalanche of disenchanting posts about the kerchers she obviously came her to generate then it would have really pronounced itself.

However that did not happen. I have no doubt the media will now see amanda Knox as fair game after these vicious attacks. She will be blamed for orchestrating a hate campaign against the Kerchers and it could have escalated into a big news story. The timing is much more than a co incidence.

All that remains is to nip this in the bud and find out who 'Tableforme' is. Her name, her IP address and who she is working for. We find this frauds and we punish them. There wont be any bullshit story. This ends here and now. Whether i am being paranoid or not these attacks could end up hurting the very person this forum purports to protect which i think is an almost desired irony sometimes.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:25 am

Alex_K wrote: Another question is how a tabloid writer managed to save enough for a nice and expensive house?


A mortgage.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby kermit the frog » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:35 am

roteoctober wrote:BTW the large compensations decided by Italian justice most of the time remain on paper unless the convicted are really very rich.


What throws us back to the question of the motive for the witch hunt the Kerchers are performing. :confused:
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby lonepinealex » Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:51 am

Birth control does not signify promiscuity.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby anonshy » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:50 pm

lonepinealex wrote:Birth control does not signify promiscuity.


It is evidence of sexual activity, and if you look at my context of a short summary view in correlation to the postal police stance on the break-in you will understand what I am saying! my assertion is what The Italian police would conclude, not what we know to be true.

Of course Birth control should not be seen as an indication of promiscuty, just like a few peices of glass on top of some clothing should not indicate a staged break-in, get it now? So if they are willing to take such a leap of judgement in the instance of the break-in, should they not consider Meredith's promiscuity given evendenc of cotraception in contrast to Amanda.

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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Tablebeforme » Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:48 pm

McGirr wrote:
Supernaut wrote:
McGirr wrote: What are you laughing at M-buster. I assume butt-buster there; is in Lahy's depraved little liquor gang.

The most recent offence by supernaut and his depraved retrograde followers was a sexual indecent and lewd lascivious conduct by Supernaut himself a few posts back whereby he exposed himself with the intent to commit sexual assault in words only. However it does show how unsafe it would be to leave young boys with these types of people.

Now for the harsh part which no-one is going to like.

Allegations have been made against the Kercher family and against individual members such as John Kercher and his son. The allegation was that through John Kerchers connections in the media, a campaign of hate has been orchestrated against Amanda Knox. That the latest slanderous comments in the media connecting Amanda to class A Drugs ( which cannabis was at that time anyway!!) was the work of the Kercher family. Posters on this very thread and forum have branded the Kercher family as vile and branded them guilty of extortion and inciting hatred and other serious allegations. No evidence thus far has been produced to prove these allegations and further any evidence that has been put forward has proven to be weak and inconclusive.

However we do know there are connections to Amanda Knox on this very website. Our respected founder Bruce Fisher whom i cast no aspersions against is friends with Amanda Knox and posters here have met her in person. There may be even close friends and family.

My concern would be that it may be alleged that Amanda Knox has orchestrated an attack on the Kercher family viz a vis Injustice anywhere which has posters spread across JREF and other web forums. I would like to request that those making allegations against the Kerchers to stop out of respect for Amanda Knox because on the balance of probabilities every unfounded accusation you sharpen is a deeper cut on Amanda.

I think as we know whom these posters are thus far that Amanda is innocent of these allegations. However I think Tableforme and supernaut have created a paradox for me. I am find myself having doubts. I think a stringent policy should be in place on IAF to prevent cowardly attacks against the victims family which could be misconstrued as coming from Amanda Knox. I think that would be doing her an injustice at this sensitive time.

A month ban for anyone who mentions the Kercher family in a negative light should be in place henceforth.


Allegations by anonymous but "official" Italian sources have been made that Amanda Knox is guilty of certain criminal acts; specifically that she was a procurer and user of cocaine. This same anonymous but "official" source also makes the common slander that she had a relationship "of a sexual nature" with a coke dealer. IOW, that she is what's commonly referred to as a "crack-whore".

Elsewhere, there are allegations that the Kercher family are a gang of immoral, money-grubbing thugs. This is NOT an accusation that they are guilty of an indictable criminal offence (I think).

Duh.


Whatever supernaut. I think it shows how distracted this forum can get, Your all busy fighting with a suspect guilter OTFence meanwhile a new poster Tableforme just waltz's into the forums with her newly baptised bullshit and how she has seen the light of innocence and cast out the guilter and we all welcome her with open arms. The first thing she does is attack the Kercher family.

I find that highly suspicious. It's possibly also motive for the media. It was foolish of you to allow her to do this.



Can you understand that I have a problem with the way the Kerchers have handled this whole thing? And I don't want to hear that I have to be in their shoes.......because I HAVE BEEN. Not that I would ever expect you to consider that possibility.

I'm not exactly sure why you seem to think I started the Kercher talk.

It's fine. I certainly don't want to do anything to jeopardize whatever hopes A and R have so I'm out.
Best of luck to Bruce and all you excellent people who care enough about two people you hardly know or don't know at all to keep fighting. You are what America is all about. :wave:
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Tablebeforme » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:06 pm

McGirr wrote:
Annella wrote:...Interjection .....McGirr, as an observer I have to say I certainly have not seen/read Roteoctober 'defend' attacks on the Kerchers! Maybe rereading his post will make it clearer?


Quote from my previous post.
Roteoctober: I am not suggesting you have misspoke and I recognise you were lending your legal and cultural opinion.


I actually stated as much in my previous post. Perhaps i am straying from my goal. I genuinely believe Tableforme is a professional journalist that came here to merge an anti-kercher element into the forum. I do not know why and i am not sure what was behind this.

I have more or less reviewed every post on this forum for the last 6 months. Not intentionally but more or less as a catch up to when i used to post here when it was injustice in Perugia. I really have read every new post and apart from the odd murmur from the odd poster wishing the Kerchers would realise the injustice facing Amanda and Raffaele i have never encountered any form of attack on the Kerchers.

A few weeks ago when a new poster arrived called 'Tableforme'. i was dazzled by her gifted writing like everybody else. The first time 'Tableforme' commented about the kerchers it caught my attention. It seemed out of place and took me by surprise. However it is only now i realise this was a deliberate sabotage by a professional. It is no secret that IAF has a very if not too liberal and laid back moderator approach. i think this was taken advantage of by these imposters. read 'tableforme' post about a drunk driver she knew. This is not only talent ,this woman writes with professional and experienced skill. Notice she cannot help let in some of her familiarity with journalism in her posts and the use of journalist lingo.

I am also suspicious of 'mafia buster' as he was particularly vicious in his attack on the kerchers and also a relative newcomer to IAF.(edit) Also 'numbers' a newcomer also made an attack in a post against the Kercher's and i am sorry to say as did 'anonsy'. I don't suspect 'Supernaut' he just harbours a little resentment against IAF and is a general trouble raiser who likes attention. I doubt he is even aware of what he is doing and in fairness it was his ranting about the Kerchers that made me realise what was happening or maybe the old fox knew all along. At this point in time, right now; I am not trying to have a go at Supernaut, but if that is how it is perceived maybe i am damaged goods too.

Amanda knox is connected to Injustice Anywhere personally and we know there are strict rules about what you can and can not say about Amanda and we also know she has friends and i think family that post here but certainly friends do. We know Bruce and Sarah are a friend of hers too. As tableforme/supernaut and/mafiabuster have suggested the kerchers are manipulating the media and are responsible for the article against Amanda Knox, however it could also be proven to a much greater probability that Knox is behind the attack on the kercher family right here on this very forum. Had tableforme gotten started that avalanche of disenchanting posts about the kerchers she obviously came her to generate then it would have really pronounced itself.

However that did not happen. I have no doubt the media will now see amanda Knox as fair game after these vicious attacks. She will be blamed for orchestrating a hate campaign against the Kerchers and it could have escalated into a big news story. The timing is much more than a co incidence.

All that remains is to nip this in the bud and find out who 'Tableforme' is. Her name, her IP address and who she is working for. We find this frauds and we punish them. There wont be any bullshit story. This ends here and now. Whether i am being paranoid or not these attacks could end up hurting the very person this forum purports to protect which i think is an almost desired irony sometimes.



Ok, I know I said I was out but I was too hurt a few minutes ago to read this comment after I read the one I just posted about. Make sense? I am flattered that you think I'm a professional journalist. I did aspire to be a journalist about 25 years ago but there was just no work out there so I switched paths. The admins are free to check my IP address if they feel so inclined. Google me and you won't find anything about me except an obituary for my husband in 2001. I work in a nursing and rehab facility...twenty years this August, thank you very much.

McGirr, I am sorry that my posts offended you so much. I guess i didn't realize the Kerchers were so off limits and I tried to word my post carefully as not to be too harsh. I didn't call them any names, I only called their actions "suspicious". But I didn't mean to cause such a ruckus. It's just that I have a hard time with the Kerchers having been in a very similar situation myself. I felt those feelings. I know how they feel. And I just can't understand them. And I don't think it's healthy to find a home for misplaced anger and hurt. That's all.

I've said my peace. Wish you all the best!
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby lonepinealex » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:21 pm

Meh. I wouldn't flounce over this if I were you tableforme. McGirr went way over the top, but only because he has a ridiculous ongoing feud with Supernaut that neither of them can resist fuelling. It's their problem, not yours. There's too much conspiracy crap in this thread.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Mafiabuster » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:39 pm

I haven't made any allegations about the Kerchers.

I have speculated about the Kerchers. (Which I feel is very different.)

My main point was ignored and got lost amongst the hullabaloo.

Fortunately others have made the point I wanted to in the Cristina Magnani thread and I will post there about this topic from now on.

McGirr, you have made some excellent points and I understand you have sensitivities around the anti-Amanda media campaign. I have noted these and will not mention the Kerchers in connection with this campaign again. If you have issues relating to Twitter haters posting vile, disgusting comments about Amanda, then I suggest you avoid the threads on this forum that discus that topic.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:14 pm

Mafiabuster wrote:I haven't made any allegations about the Kerchers.

I have speculated about the Kerchers. (Which I feel is very different.)

My main point was ignored and got lost amongst the hullabaloo.

Fortunately others have made the point I wanted to in the Cristina Magnani thread and I will post there about this topic from now on.

McGirr, you have made some excellent points and I understand you have sensitivities around the anti-Amanda media campaign. I have noted these and will not mention the Kerchers in connection with this campaign again. If you have issues relating to Twitter haters posting vile, disgusting comments about Amanda, then I suggest you avoid the threads on this forum that discus that topic.


Thank you Mafia-buster. I appreciate that greatly.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Supernaut » Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:22 pm

Wow.

There are female college students who are on "the pill"?

Astounding.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:26 pm

If you haven't seen this before, I highly recommend you watch this. After the initial McDonalds suit it gets very interesting. It is called Hot Coffee and it is very relevant to the discussion OTfence and Bill Williams were having about the supreme court on the public discussion thread. You will be amazed at how good this documentary gets.

Watch on youtube.com
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Supernaut » Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:42 pm

McGirr wrote:If you haven't seen this before, I highly recommend you watch this. After the initial McDonalds suit it gets very interesting. It is called Hot Coffee and it is very relevant to the discussion OTfence and Bill Williams were having about the supreme court on the public discussion thread. You will be amazed at how good this documentary gets.

Watch on youtube.com


I, for one, am not going to bother.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Supernaut » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:49 pm

the next thing someone will tell us;

some female college students keep rubbers (condoms) to hand, and that they [gasp!] give them to friends who don't!!
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby standforprinciple » Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:16 pm

McGirr wrote:
Supernaut wrote:the next thing someone will tell us;

some female college students keep rubbers (condoms) to hand, and that they [gasp!] give them to friends who don't!!


It is a pity your mother had no friends at college.


What is wrong with asking questions of and about the Kerchers? They have used the media so they have put themselves 'out there'. This is a murder trial and the lives of two innocents are on the line, not a memorial service.

In the USA questions are raised about victims (and families if relevant).

And what does Gitmo have to do with the murder? ( When I started reading comments on post boards I was stunned by the anti American sentiment involved in this case)
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:01 pm

standforprinciple wrote:
McGirr wrote:
Supernaut wrote:the next thing someone will tell us;

some female college students keep rubbers (condoms) to hand, and that they [gasp!] give them to friends who don't!!


It is a pity your mother had no friends at college.


What is wrong with asking questions of and about the Kerchers? They have used the media so they have put themselves 'out there'. This is a murder trial and the lives of two innocents are on the line, not a memorial service.

In the USA questions are raised about victims (and families if relevant).

And what does Gitmo have to do with the murder? ( When I started reading comments on post boards I was stunned by the anti American sentiment involved in this case)


There is nothing wrong with asking questions. The Kerchers do have a rightful place allocated them in this legal saga. It is the same place given to every other victim in every other court in every other state in America and Canada. I have yet to fully understand the different role the lawyer representing the victim has in an Italian Court as opposed to an American court. I assume there must be a a difference in light of all the fireworks.

Attack the lawyer if you like, attack the Jurors, but I cannot see what is gained from attacking the victims. It seem's cowardly when there really is more productive things that could be done. Such as contacting the jurors for their opinions. However slandering , denigrating, degrading and demoralising ,teasing, bullying and annoying a victim who is in their right and lawful place seems recklessly stupid.

If the Kerchers said something in the media and you object then state your objection. Deal with what was said. However if you want critical, be critical of the Kercher lawyer. That is what he is there for.

As for conspiracy theories about media manipulation. As of yet no evidence has been produced and the real danger of discussing this theory on this forum is that it can easily be flipped upside down and levelled squarely against Amanda Knox. It will look like the Knox camp is attacking the victim's family. If you have read the comments made about the Kerchers on just this thread. It would be exposed as a vicious and cruel attack by Knox on the victims family.

This forum is very personal in regard Amanda Knox and we know that from Aspergers to Little wish you well cards for her when she does her exam. You cannot have people brutalising the victims family in the background of this soft melody of Amanda orchestra. It quite frankly; looks bad. Meredith is dead and Amanda is not.

It's also a matter of taste. I did not want to have to say that but there I said it.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby TomZ53 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:38 pm

McGirr wrote:
There is nothing wrong with asking questions. The Kerchers do have a rightful place allocated them in this legal saga. It is the same place given to every other victim in every other court in every other state in America and Canada. I have yet to fully understand the different role the lawyer representing the victim has in an Italian Court as opposed to an American court. I assume there must be a a difference in light of all the fireworks.


McGirr,

Not sure what any of this has to do with 'what's wrong with the media' but the issue regarding Kerchers is that they have been pursuing an unusually viscious and personal civil litigation against Amanda and Raffaele while the criminal prosecution has been progressing. This is a particular issue because in Italy, while various sorts of inaddmissable evidence and derogatory attacks on the defendents by the prosecution may be formally precluded by Italian law, it is completely permissible for civil litigants to launch their own self serving campaign of character assassination during a criminal trial in spite of the obvious fact that the lawyer executing this assault is solely motivated by personal financial gain. This is precisely the morally unjustifiable campaign that has been launched in this case and that is the issue.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby TomZ53 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:50 pm

McGirr,

Checking the posts upthread, I see that roteocober previously explained a lot of this. FYI, he knows what he is talking about.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:15 pm

TomZ53 wrote:McGirr,

Checking the posts upthread, I see that roteocober previously explained a lot of this. FYI, he knows what he is talking about.


Hi Tomz

No he hasn't really explained the difference, no doubt there less of a limitation on the lawyer for the victim in an Italian court.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:17 pm

TomZ53 wrote:
McGirr wrote:
There is nothing wrong with asking questions. The Kerchers do have a rightful place allocated them in this legal saga. It is the same place given to every other victim in every other court in every other state in America and Canada. I have yet to fully understand the different role the lawyer representing the victim has in an Italian Court as opposed to an American court. I assume there must be a a difference in light of all the fireworks.


McGirr,

Not sure what any of this has to do with 'what's wrong with the media' but the issue regarding Kerchers is that they have been pursuing an unusually viscious and personal civil litigation against Amanda and Raffaele while the criminal prosecution has been progressing. This is a particular issue because in Italy, while various sorts of inaddmissable evidence and derogatory attacks on the defendents by the prosecution may be formally precluded by Italian law, it is completely permissible for civil litigants to launch their own self serving campaign of character assassination during a criminal trial in spite of the obvious fact that the lawyer executing this assault is solely motivated by personal financial gain. This is precisely the morally unjustifiable campaign that has been launched in this case and that is the issue.


Would it not be more practical to comment on what civil lawyer Francesco Maresca is doing in the actual court. What illogical shite has he been spouting?
Take it from there, no need to drag in the entire Kercher family that is just tactless.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby TomZ53 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:45 pm

McGirr wrote:
TomZ53 wrote:
McGirr wrote:
There is nothing wrong with asking questions. The Kerchers do have a rightful place allocated them in this legal saga. It is the same place given to every other victim in every other court in every other state in America and Canada. I have yet to fully understand the different role the lawyer representing the victim has in an Italian Court as opposed to an American court. I assume there must be a a difference in light of all the fireworks.


McGirr,

Not sure what any of this has to do with 'what's wrong with the media' but the issue regarding Kerchers is that they have been pursuing an unusually viscious and personal civil litigation against Amanda and Raffaele while the criminal prosecution has been progressing. This is a particular issue because in Italy, while various sorts of inaddmissable evidence and derogatory attacks on the defendents by the prosecution may be formally precluded by Italian law, it is completely permissible for civil litigants to launch their own self serving campaign of character assassination during a criminal trial in spite of the obvious fact that the lawyer executing this assault is solely motivated by personal financial gain. This is precisely the morally unjustifiable campaign that has been launched in this case and that is the issue.


Would it not be more practical to comment on what civil lawyer Francesco Maresca is doing in the actual court. What illogical shite has he been spouting?
Take it from there, no need to drag in the entire Kercher family that is just tactless.


McGirr,

Perhaps you could elaborate on what you see as the lawyer Francesco Maresca's motivations? Are you suggesting that he has been acting in a way disconnected from the wishes of his client? Please elaborate.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:07 pm

TomZ53 wrote:This raises the issue of the Kerchers. Indisputably they have been victims. Does that give them a right to lash out against innocent people? Should the media support them in such an endeavor? Are the British media inherently biased because Meridith was British? Because her father was a fixture in the British Tabloid media industry? Because her brother now works in the British media industry? Are these fair questions?


They of course have a right to speak. I would not agree with them getting personally involved in media coverage of Knox and sollecito. if you have any concrete evidence that this has been occurring then action should be taken. Complaints should be made to the appropriate authorities.

As it stands I am shocked at the behaviour on this forum.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:08 pm

TomZ53 wrote:
McGirr wrote:
TomZ53 wrote:
McGirr wrote:
There is nothing wrong with asking questions. The Kerchers do have a rightful place allocated them in this legal saga. It is the same place given to every other victim in every other court in every other state in America and Canada. I have yet to fully understand the different role the lawyer representing the victim has in an Italian Court as opposed to an American court. I assume there must be a a difference in light of all the fireworks.


McGirr,

Not sure what any of this has to do with 'what's wrong with the media' but the issue regarding Kerchers is that they have been pursuing an unusually viscious and personal civil litigation against Amanda and Raffaele while the criminal prosecution has been progressing. This is a particular issue because in Italy, while various sorts of inaddmissable evidence and derogatory attacks on the defendents by the prosecution may be formally precluded by Italian law, it is completely permissible for civil litigants to launch their own self serving campaign of character assassination during a criminal trial in spite of the obvious fact that the lawyer executing this assault is solely motivated by personal financial gain. This is precisely the morally unjustifiable campaign that has been launched in this case and that is the issue.


Would it not be more practical to comment on what civil lawyer Francesco Maresca is doing in the actual court. What illogical shite has he been spouting?
Take it from there, no need to drag in the entire Kercher family that is just tactless.


McGirr,

Perhaps you could elaborate on what you see as the lawyer Francesco Maresca's motivations? Are you suggesting that he has been acting in a way disconnected from the wishes of his client? Please elaborate.


If you have a beef with Francesco Maresca's then please elaborate. I have no inkling about the motivations of Francesco Maresca.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby TomZ53 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:10 pm

McGirr wrote:
TomZ53 wrote:This raises the issue of the Kerchers. Indisputably they have been victims. Does that give them a right to lash out against innocent people? Should the media support them in such an endeavor? Are the British media inherently biased because Meridith was British? Because her father was a fixture in the British Tabloid media industry? Because her brother now works in the British media industry? Are these fair questions?


They of course have a right to speak. I would not agree with them getting personally involved in media coverage of Knox and sollecito. if you have any concrete evidence that this has been occurring then action should be taken. Complaints should be made to the appropriate authorities.

As it stands I am shocked at the behaviour on this forum.



Are you saying that the Kerchers are correct in attacking Amanda and Raffaele?
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:14 pm

TomZ53 wrote:
McGirr wrote:
TomZ53 wrote:This raises the issue of the Kerchers. Indisputably they have been victims. Does that give them a right to lash out against innocent people? Should the media support them in such an endeavor? Are the British media inherently biased because Meridith was British? Because her father was a fixture in the British Tabloid media industry? Because her brother now works in the British media industry? Are these fair questions?


They of course have a right to speak. I would not agree with them getting personally involved in media coverage of Knox and sollecito. if you have any concrete evidence that this has been occurring then action should be taken. Complaints should be made to the appropriate authorities.

As it stands I am shocked at the behaviour on this forum.



Are you saying that the Kerchers are correct in attacking Amanda and Raffaele?



Everyone has a right to speak and everyone has a right of reply. What attacks have the Kercher's made against Amanda and Raffaele. The Kerchers have a lawyer representing them so i would be surprised if they were personally attacking Amanda and Raffaele. Are they?
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby TomZ53 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:15 pm

McGirr wrote:
TomZ53 wrote:This raises the issue of the Kerchers. Indisputably they have been victims. Does that give them a right to lash out against innocent people? Should the media support them in such an endeavor? Are the British media inherently biased because Meridith was British? Because her father was a fixture in the British Tabloid media industry? Because her brother now works in the British media industry? Are these fair questions?


They of course have a right to speak. I would not agree with them getting personally involved in media coverage of Knox and sollecito. if you have any concrete evidence that this has been occurring then action should be taken. Complaints should be made to the appropriate authorities.

As it stands I am shocked at the behaviour on this forum.


Further, are you saying you agree that civil litigation such as this should be a part of criminal proceedings? Patrick Lamumba's case also?
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby TomZ53 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:18 pm

McGirr wrote:
TomZ53 wrote:
McGirr wrote:
TomZ53 wrote:This raises the issue of the Kerchers. Indisputably they have been victims. Does that give them a right to lash out against innocent people? Should the media support them in such an endeavor? Are the British media inherently biased because Meridith was British? Because her father was a fixture in the British Tabloid media industry? Because her brother now works in the British media industry? Are these fair questions?


They of course have a right to speak. I would not agree with them getting personally involved in media coverage of Knox and sollecito. if you have any concrete evidence that this has been occurring then action should be taken. Complaints should be made to the appropriate authorities.

As it stands I am shocked at the behaviour on this forum.



Are you saying that the Kerchers are correct in attacking Amanda and Raffaele?



Everyone has a right to speak and everyone has a right of reply. What attacks have the Kercher's made against Amanda and Raffaele. The Kerchers have a lawyer representing them so i would be surprised if they were personally attacking Amanda and Raffaele. Are they?


Are you suggesting that the legal representative of the Kercher's does not represent them when he speaks in court? Who has this lawyer been attacking? Who does he represent?
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:21 pm

TomZ53 wrote:
McGirr wrote:
TomZ53 wrote:This raises the issue of the Kerchers. Indisputably they have been victims. Does that give them a right to lash out against innocent people? Should the media support them in such an endeavor? Are the British media inherently biased because Meridith was British? Because her father was a fixture in the British Tabloid media industry? Because her brother now works in the British media industry? Are these fair questions?


They of course have a right to speak. I would not agree with them getting personally involved in media coverage of Knox and sollecito. if you have any concrete evidence that this has been occurring then action should be taken. Complaints should be made to the appropriate authorities.

As it stands I am shocked at the behaviour on this forum.


Further, are you saying you agree that civil litigation such as this should be a part of criminal proceedings? Patrick Lamumba's case also?


Without you further elaborating on whether the Kerchers have personally attacked Amanda and Raffaele outside of their lawyer Francesco Maresca's i will reserve my answer to your question. Once i have ascertained the gravity of what you are alleging then i shall reply.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby TomZ53 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:22 pm

I have to say, I love McGirr's comment above, "Complaints should be made to the appropriate authorities".

Priceless!
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby TomZ53 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:25 pm

McGirr wrote:
TomZ53 wrote:
McGirr wrote:
TomZ53 wrote:This raises the issue of the Kerchers. Indisputably they have been victims. Does that give them a right to lash out against innocent people? Should the media support them in such an endeavor? Are the British media inherently biased because Meridith was British? Because her father was a fixture in the British Tabloid media industry? Because her brother now works in the British media industry? Are these fair questions?


They of course have a right to speak. I would not agree with them getting personally involved in media coverage of Knox and sollecito. if you have any concrete evidence that this has been occurring then action should be taken. Complaints should be made to the appropriate authorities.

As it stands I am shocked at the behaviour on this forum.


Further, are you saying you agree that civil litigation such as this should be a part of criminal proceedings? Patrick Lamumba's case also?


Without you further elaborating on whether the Kerchers have personally attacked Amanda and Raffaele outside of their lawyer Francesco Maresca's i will reserve my answer to your question. Once i have ascertained the gravity of what you are alleging then i shall reply.


huh? What kind of answer is that? Do you think civil litigation should be a part of criminal proceedings or not? This is not a hard question.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:26 pm

TomZ53 wrote:I have to say, I love McGirr's comment above, "Complaints should be made to the appropriate authorities".

Priceless!


You clearly have no grasp of British austerity.

Are you going to elaborate on whether the Kerchers have personally attacked Amanda and Raffaele outside of their lawyer Francesco Maresca's?
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby TomZ53 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:31 pm

McGirr wrote:
TomZ53 wrote:I have to say, I love McGirr's comment above, "Complaints should be made to the appropriate authorities".

Priceless!


You clearly have no grasp of British austerity.

Are you going to elaborate on whether the Kerchers have personally attacked Amanda and Raffaele outside of their lawyer Francesco Maresca's?


No, I'm going to wait for you to answer my question, should civil litigation be included in criminal proceedings or not?

That is the issue here.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:41 pm

TomZ53 wrote:
McGirr wrote:
TomZ53 wrote:I have to say, I love McGirr's comment above, "Complaints should be made to the appropriate authorities".

Priceless!


You clearly have no grasp of British austerity.

Are you going to elaborate on whether the Kerchers have personally attacked Amanda and Raffaele outside of their lawyer Francesco Maresca's?


No, I'm going to wait for you to answer my question, should civil litigation be included in criminal proceedings or not?

That is the issue here.


No the issue here is whether the Kerchers have personally attacked Amanda and Raffaele outside of their lawyer Francesco Maresca's. I can't find any evidence that they have.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby TomZ53 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:47 pm

McGirr wrote:
TomZ53 wrote:
McGirr wrote:
TomZ53 wrote:I have to say, I love McGirr's comment above, "Complaints should be made to the appropriate authorities".

Priceless!


You clearly have no grasp of British austerity.

Are you going to elaborate on whether the Kerchers have personally attacked Amanda and Raffaele outside of their lawyer Francesco Maresca's?


No, I'm going to wait for you to answer my question, should civil litigation be included in criminal proceedings or not?

That is the issue here.


No the issue here is whether the Kerchers have personally attacked Amanda and Raffaele outside of their lawyer Francesco Maresca's. I can't find any evidence that they have.


McGirr,

That is not my question. Do you or do you not think that it is appropriate to include civil litigation in a criminal case? Again, this is not a hard question. The answer is either yes or no. I cannot understand why you are incapable of answering such a simple question.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:57 pm

roteoctober wrote:Perhaps there is an enduring misunderstnding between us: I'm not stating that the Kerchers are not (or should not be) entitled to have a lawyer of their own and that said lawyer (lawyers indeed) should not join the prosecution, because that's what happens in most cases, hence no marvel.

What I'm saying is that by becoming civil parties AND by the way their lawyers have supported the prosecution, they have unmistakably chosen one side, hence whatever criticism you level at the prosecution (in the trial phase, the investigative phase was a different matter) can be leveled at Kerchers' lawyers too and, through them, to the Kerchers themselves.

If one looks back to the posts on IIP/IA from some time ago, one realizes that there has always been outspoken criticism of Kerchers' lawyers, while the Kercehrs themselves were usually spared because it was assumed (by most but not by all) that they were being deceived by their own lawyers.

In more recent times those same people (or most of them) have probably realized that that was not the case and Kerchers' lawyers were indeed representing faithfully the Kerchers, hence the criticism leveled at the lawyers was transferred also to the Kerchers
.


Well that would have been highly speculative either way. Even with additional comments from the Kerchers in the media they are still relying on the prosecutions case.What the police and prosecution have investigated. Nothing has changed unfortunately.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby TomZ53 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:07 pm

Regarding 'the case' fact is that the Prosecution's 'case' was systematically dismantled by actual scientists during the appeal (Italian Scientists, actually, they really do exist!) Their careful examination revealed the vacuous nature of the so called 'evidence' for the world to see. Ouch!
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby HMH » Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:40 pm

McGirr wrote:
TomZ53 wrote:
McGirr wrote:
There is nothing wrong with asking questions. The Kerchers do have a rightful place allocated them in this legal saga. It is the same place given to every other victim in every other court in every other state in America and Canada. I have yet to fully understand the different role the lawyer representing the victim has in an Italian Court as opposed to an American court. I assume there must be a a difference in light of all the fireworks.


McGirr,

Not sure what any of this has to do with 'what's wrong with the media' but the issue regarding Kerchers is that they have been pursuing an unusually viscious and personal civil litigation against Amanda and Raffaele while the criminal prosecution has been progressing. This is a particular issue because in Italy, while various sorts of inaddmissable evidence and derogatory attacks on the defendents by the prosecution may be formally precluded by Italian law, it is completely permissible for civil litigants to launch their own self serving campaign of character assassination during a criminal trial in spite of the obvious fact that the lawyer executing this assault is solely motivated by personal financial gain. This is precisely the morally unjustifiable campaign that has been launched in this case and that is the issue.


Would it not be more practical to comment on what civil lawyer Francesco Maresca is doing in the actual court. What illogical shite has he been spouting?
Take it from there, no need to drag in the entire Kercher family that is just tactless.



But the Kercher family has been actively involved. First of all, John Kercher wrote that book that was filled with inaccuracies and outdated evidence and then Stephanie Kercher wrote a letter to Hellman's court urging it to "not pay too much attention to Conti and Vecchioti's conclusions." I think it's a strange way for people who claim they just want the truth to act.

Maresca didn't write that letter. Stephanie Kercher did.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:15 am

TomZ53 wrote:McGirr fails yet again and instead proceeds to obfustate. Such disingenuous behavior is duly noted. The question is whether it appropriate to include civil litigation in a criminal proceeding or not?

Mcgirr, are you capable of actually answering a straight forward question or not? So far everything you have provided us say emphatically NO!!! McGirr asbolutley cannot answer a dierct question in a straight forward manner. You have made your point quite clear to the forum. Thanks


It is appropriate to include Civil litigation in a criminal proceeding. What is rare is to find an appropriately skilled defence lawyer.

Your questions are insincere, your constant harassment of me with your many question's all of which I have answered show what a disingenuous person you are. You have not so much as elaborated on the points you left unanswered scattered back along this thread.

There are a few questions you have not answered. Just because you think your a big shot scientist you think you can condescend to people. Take notes in your notebook. Considering your accusing me of being obfuscate you would think you could at least spell the word properly so as to make clear what you are saying. Nothing worse than a sore loser Tom, whatever praise I had for you has vanished.

In fact it is you that is being obfuscate. You were to elaborate on what personal attacks the Kerchers have made against Amanda and Raffaele outside of their lawyer Francesco Maresca. I doubt you will ever reply such is your disingenuous nature.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Numbers » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:17 am

McGirr wrote:
Numbers wrote:
McGirr wrote:
roteoctober wrote:Perhaps there is an enduring misunderstnding between us: I'm not stating that the Kerchers are not (or should not be) entitled to have a lawyer of their own and that said lawyer (lawyers indeed) should not join the prosecution, because that's what happens in most cases, hence no marvel.

What I'm saying is that by becoming civil parties AND by the way their lawyers have supported the prosecution, they have unmistakably chosen one side, hence whatever criticism you level at the prosecution (in the trial phase, the investigative phase was a different matter) can be leveled at Kerchers' lawyers too and, through them, to the Kerchers themselves.

If one looks back to the posts on IIP/IA from some time ago, one realizes that there has always been outspoken criticism of Kerchers' lawyers, while the Kercehrs themselves were usually spared because it was assumed (by most but not by all) that they were being deceived by their own lawyers.

In more recent times those same people (or most of them) have probably realized that that was not the case and Kerchers' lawyers were indeed representing faithfully the Kerchers, hence the criticism leveled at the lawyers was transferred also to the Kerchers
.


Well that would have been highly speculative either way. Even with additional comments from the Kerchers in the media they are still relying on the prosecutions case.What the police and prosecution have investigated. Nothing has changed unfortunately.


McGirr,

I have a few points to make.

Up-thread, you mentioned my post on the Kerchers. I posted that with no ill-intent toward them after seeing some earlier comments. IIRC, the point of my post was that the Kerchers were acting out of psychological factors, such as implanting (suggested by Steve Moore), and/or grief, and/or "survivors' guilt." If you take that comment as a statement against them that is your right to an opinion, but I believe shows a peculiar bias on your part.

In the US, civil trials of the victim against alleged perpetrators are not allowed to run concurrently, with the same judge and jury, as in the criminal case. The civil case AFAIK always begins after the conclusion of the criminal trial, whether the verdict is guilty or not. To me, the concurrent trial such as held in Italy is grossly unfair, because evidence not allowed in the criminal trial may be heard by the same panel of lay and professional judges. In a post, pmop says this concurrent trial system may be common in civil law countries.

The Kerchers' lawyer, presumably acting under their instructions, has conducted a strange (to me) campaign to prevent possible exculpatory evidence from being presented in court - evidence that would help establish more clearly who killed and raped their daughter/sister. To me, that campaign of obfuscation and denial of defendant's rights is deceitful and an abomination.

I know nothing about the Kerchers' role, if any, in spreading rumors against Amanda. Others have voiced suspicions, but I am aware of no evidence.

I see that you and Supernaut have your own private issues; I have absolutely no desire to be involved with them, whatever they are.


You were derogative in your comments. It was also a continuation of a series of posts containing abusive and denigrating and hateful attacks on the Kerchers, your were certainly not supportive and nor were you neutral so it looked bad.

Supernaut called the Kercher's stupid money grubbing vile unprincipled immoral extortionists and litany of other degrading statements. I have no private issue with supernaut , i just think he crosses the line and someone has to step in and deal with him.

How can this forum be in better standing after those vicious attacks on the Kercher's. Attack their lawyer Francesco Maresca that is what he is paid to do. Puzzle his psychological motivations.

Incidentally I am not clear on what you perceive as being a civil trial within a criminal trial. I was of the view it was civil litigation within a criminal proceeding.


McGirr,

For the benefit of any wishing to see my post on the, I repeat it here:

Numbers wrote:The Kercher family may be suffering from "implanted" feelings -from the false information and publicity generated by the Italian prosecutors and their own lawyer - that AK and RS are guilty, as mentioned by Steve Moore. Also, the Kerchers may be suffering from "survivor's guilt" (pardon the pop psychology). Their daughter and sister was murdered, and they may feel personal guilt and helplessness that they could not prevent it. Therefore, they blame a convenient, falsely identified target.


I posted it as an alternative explanation of the Kerchers' behavior to some of the more negative views posted earlier in the thread.

Can you explain the differences, if any, between a "trial", a "litigation", and a "proceeding" in this legal context?
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:21 am

HMH wrote:
I will give you a straight answer, anyone who denigrates the Kercher family or any other victims family should be prosecuted.


Be prosecuted? For expressing their opinion and exercising freedom of speech?

Why do we have to like these people? Because they are murder victims? By all intents and purposes, Meredith was gorgeous with a promising future and it is very sad that Rudy Guede killed her.

Aside from that, sorry, I don't like them as people. I think they are pretentious and arrogant. I think they are being willfully ignorant. I don't think that they are handling the situation in a way that benefits Meredith's best interests. If Bruce wants to ban me for daring to feel that way, it's his prerogative. You have no right to do that or to tell anyone how and what they should post.

Go ahead and tell me I'm a terrible person now.


I think they are very professional and likeable. Inciting hatred is not freedom of speech. i have a right to prevent incitement of hatred.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby TomZ53 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:27 am

McGirr wrote:
TomZ53 wrote:McGirr fails yet again and instead proceeds to obfustate. Such disingenuous behavior is duly noted. The question is whether it appropriate to include civil litigation in a criminal proceeding or not?

Mcgirr, are you capable of actually answering a straight forward question or not? So far everything you have provided us say emphatically NO!!! McGirr asbolutley cannot answer a dierct question in a straight forward manner. You have made your point quite clear to the forum. Thanks


It is appropriate to include Civil litigation in a criminal proceeding. What is rare is to find an appropriately skilled defence lawyer.

Your questions are insincere, your constant harassment of me with your many question's all of which I have answered show what a disingenuous person you are. You have not so much as elaborated on the points you left unanswered scattered back along this thread.

There are a few questions you have not answered. Just because you think your a big shot scientist you think you can condescend to people. Take notes in your notebook. Considering your accusing me of being obfuscate you would think you could at least spell the word properly so as to make clear what you are saying. Nothing worse than a sore loser Tom, whatever praise I had for you has vanished.

In fact it is you that is being obfuscate. You were to elaborate on what personal attacks the Kerchers have made against Amanda and Raffaele outside of their lawyer Francesco Maresca. I doubt you will ever reply such is your disingenuous nature.


You reply "It is appropriate to include Civil litigation in a criminal proceeding."

Duly noted.

edited
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby TomZ53 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:35 am

This legal process that McGirr espouses of having civil proceedings included as part of criminal proceedings is intrinsically illogical. How does that make sense? It would appear to be an inherant contradiction.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:40 am

TomZ53 wrote:This legal process that McGirr espouses of having civil proceedings included as part of criminal proceedings is intrinsically illogical. How does that make sense? It would appear to be an inherant contradiction.


What do you mean?

A lawyer representing a victim in criminal proceeding. The lawyer would be a civil litigant would he not?
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:44 am

TomZ53 wrote:This legal process that McGirr espouses of having civil proceedings included as part of criminal proceedings is intrinsically illogical. How does that make sense? It would appear to be an inherant contradiction.


I am not engaging in rhetoric.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby TomZ53 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:09 am

Everyone, lots of people find me pompous, whatever, in this case I challenge Mcgirr to make a logical case. I doubt he can do it.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby ScifiTom » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:21 am

McGirr wrote:
Quote ''My sympathies to both families'' un-Quote this is from Piers Morgan Twitter after Amanda Knox's Aquittal. He openly states his sympathies to both the Knox and Kercher family.

What is a Kercher supporter anyway. The reason the media does not attack Meredith is because she is a murder victim and her family are also the victims. The reason the media does attack Amanda Knox is because she is the accused. This is what the media does, there are some well balanced articles and the reason for this is because it is miscarriage of justice but generally the media just reports on what the Court's decide and if a guilty verdict they follow with scorn and scandal and try to boost ratings from the story or they may just report the verdict in less publicised cases.

No journalist is going to attack the image of a sweet girl like Meredith who was brutally murdered. That would be journalistic suicide. Bad business and beside no editor would allow it. Instead they get the green light to attack Amanda Knox.

m-buster,supernaut et al:
Please explain to me what a Kercher supporter is? Is this a term unique to IAF?

I am guessing because the Kercher family had legal representation at the previous trial and have made communications viz a viz their lawyer that this involvement and effort could be described as the kercher campaign to have Amanda and Raffaele prosecuted or it could be described as the Kerchers efforts to have the person/s involved in their daughters murder prosecuted.

Maybe they are focused on Amanda and Raffaele or maybe they are focused on keeping the whole legal process moving to get to the truth behind their daughter's murder. This could be confused with the many crazy web forums purporting to represent the victim Meredith Kercher and their crazy views.

The Kerchers have a right to respect the memory of their beloved daughter and they have a right to seek the truth about her death.
I disagree with their interference in the Amanda and Raffaele defence to their wrongful conviction. If this interferences is not designed to seek out the truth then it is wrong. If they want to send an innocent person through the system as a means to get to the truth then this again is wrong. However it is possible the lawyer representing the Kerchers got over zealous and may even be a little corrupt and biased towards certain entities in the prosecution.


What i do know is the Kerchers have a right to seek the truth surrounding their daughters murder and they have a right to grieve and respect their memories of Meredith. They can post pictures and keep a website if they so wish.

Do you suspect that the Kerchers are harnessing the power of the guilters and haters and generally ignorant and confused to create a false shrine for Meredith. Why would they do that?

There is no such thing as Kercher supporter. Is there? The support for a victims family is natural and tempered by good reason and rationality and intelligence and of course compassion.

When you say Kercher supporters i imagine the Kercher's tapping into the guilters and creating a lynch mob with which to attack Amanda Knox. Since the lynch mob was already there. I can only define your term Kercher supporter as a member of the Kercher family that incites hatred against Amanda Knox. A rather sensitive and difficult situation considering that the purpose of a court is to punish the wrongdoer on behalf of the citizen. Since there is no evidence of the Kerchers inciting hatred against Amanda Knox directly I take it to mean that a kercher supporter is member of the Kercher family that harbours anger against Amanda Knox and wants to find solace in her conviction or the truth surrounding Merediths murder so that they may be free from their grief and move on with their lives without carrying the guilt of what happened to Meredith.

Did Amanda not remain in America declining to return to Italy for the re trial. Morally I see no difference. Amanda wants or would like the same closure the Kercher's want and to move on with their lives.

Once again i think the greatest harm to Amanda Knox came from this forum and their open views on the Kerchers. Along those lines and in continuation with what I said earlier. It this reasoning, and this natural understanding of the grieving that makes me suspicious of Tableforme. What mother would not at least understand this natural part of the otherwise systematic process. Why such a callous attack on the Kercher's from this wise Mother of 4 teenage daughter's.


To McGirr

What did I do? Did I get attack? McGirr, over the decade, Pier Morgan never talked once about the case of Amanda Knox or Raffaele, even he did do a short interview of quickly to get away from crime law!!!

Look the media is about a issue of working detail, into work even news journal is attack Amanda, even not just Amanda, there not letting the Kercher family out of it, even what I am seeing is this that they both to need to let go, even that what Amanda doing even if she want to move on that great, even super. But the Kercher want the truth. The truth is enough is enough!!!

Supernaut, said silly things even ok the guy is just crazy, even he likes to support, Amanda Knox. But why would you McGirr want to talk about hot coffie, of being spill on the pants of health care parts. What is this? Do you want me, to bring my that girl again? I make a promise for that part, to stay out of it and frankly I am, even she not staying out of it. She just a girl who just need help? Maybe a lot of help? I don't know why she bother me? I honest give up, and move. I would bring her back. What next? Do you think she would join this forum? I don't know, even I wouldn't mind one bit, because I do believe anyone can help out an innocent person!!!

Table for me? Table didn't do anything wrong, even I just think Table is a good friend, even Table is not attacking. The one that attack is someone who might not understand Media news, of how it works!!!

But look McGirr, even I know you can change this even you help me change, even I wish that I could tried to do small talks on the girl. I know we are both neighbors, sooner or later it going to happen. I don't know when? But soon enough. This is media news of what wrong with the media, not my girl of the movie? But sometimes it sound like that, even I am sorry of the mix up even I am trying my best to fix the grammer, even now I am seeing Tom Z vs McGirr and I just give up!!!
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby ScifiTom » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:33 am

Supernaut wrote:
McGirr wrote:If you haven't seen this before, I highly recommend you watch this. After the initial McDonalds suit it gets very interesting. It is called Hot Coffee and it is very relevant to the discussion OTfence and Bill Williams were having about the supreme court on the public discussion thread. You will be amazed at how good this documentary gets.

Watch on youtube.com


I, for one, am not going to bother.


To Supernaut

Hey Supernaut, I will help you out. What is this? I have no clue, even it hot coffee of spill the beans even sure mostly people do drink coffee and yes some lawyers said: Coffee is bad for you? Maybe not at all? Who can we tell, even this is like: Why is this being here? I give up. Is it something to do with media news. Hmmmmm ok maybe it does into the hot weather. So if I do a media news report? I will do one. But which one should I do for the issue of crime law. I will wait until I work into it, and type in media news through poilitics and crime law, even I would go through the case of innocent as well. I am not sure, but a lot of media is being attack on not Amanda, but both, even no one is leaving, even media is just media. I am only making it clear into goodness. But I will do a good source of media news and it might not be so good at all. Let wait and see what happen and Supernaut, I hope you enjoy the best of it and talk to you soon Supernaut!!!
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby ScifiTom » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:01 am

To everyone

Hey everyone, here is my video of something to watch even if it is media news, and let see if I can get a discussion on to this and anyway enjoy the video and talk to you soon everyone!!!

Watch on youtube.com
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby anonshy » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:06 am

ScifiTom wrote:To everyone

Hey everyone, here is my video of something to watch even if it is media news, and let see if I can get a discussion on to this and anyway enjoy the video and talk to you soon everyone!!!

Watch on youtube.com


Sounds like a good read! hav eyou read the book? anything relevant to apply to this case?

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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby analemma » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:38 am

lisa-marie-basile has a powerful new response to notcase haters in Huffington post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-marie-basile/why-we-owe-it-t_b_5562332.html
She addresses the lies and mysogony of the guilter-haters.
Be sure to read it often.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Sarah » Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:08 pm

Challenging thread and lots of great comments and discussion.

Lets not stoop to insults and accusations of each other if we can please.

I think the comments questioning the Kerchers role and views are in bounds. Flat out insults to them are not and I did edit some of those out.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Sarah » Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:19 pm

TomZ53 wrote:Yes or no should civil litigation be allowed as part of criminal prosecution or not? That is the question McGirr refuses to answer.


Please don't refer to the people you are talking to in third person, it appears to be belittling.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Sarah » Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:37 pm

Tablebeforme wrote:
McGirr wrote:
I actually stated as much in my previous post. Perhaps i am straying from my goal. I genuinely believe Tableforme is a professional journalist that came here to merge an anti-kercher element into the forum. I do not know why and i am not sure what was behind this.

A few weeks ago when a new poster arrived called 'Tableforme'. i was dazzled by her gifted writing like everybody else. The first time 'Tableforme' commented about the kerchers it caught my attention. It seemed out of place and took me by surprise. However it is only now i realise this was a deliberate sabotage by a professional. It is no secret that IAF has a very if not too liberal and laid back moderator approach. i think this was taken advantage of by these imposters. read 'tableforme' post about a drunk driver she knew. This is not only talent ,this woman writes with professional and experienced skill. Notice she cannot help let in some of her familiarity with journalism in her posts and the use of journalist lingo.

I am also suspicious of 'mafia buster' as he was particularly vicious in his attack on the kerchers and also a relative newcomer to IAF.(edit) Also 'numbers' a newcomer also made an attack in a post against the Kercher's and i am sorry to say as did 'anonsy'. I don't suspect 'Supernaut' he just harbours a little resentment against IAF and is a general trouble raiser who likes attention. I doubt he is even aware of what he is doing and in fairness it was his ranting about the Kerchers that made me realise what was happening or maybe the old fox knew all along. At this point in time, right now; I am not trying to have a go at Supernaut, but if that is how it is perceived maybe i am damaged goods too.

Amanda knox is connected to Injustice Anywhere personally and we know there are strict rules about what you can and can not say about Amanda and we also know she has friends and i think family that post here but certainly friends do. We know Bruce and Sarah are a friend of hers too. As tableforme/supernaut and/mafiabuster have suggested the kerchers are manipulating the media and are responsible for the article against Amanda Knox, however it could also be proven to a much greater probability that Knox is behind the attack on the kercher family right here on this very forum. Had tableforme gotten started that avalanche of disenchanting posts about the kerchers she obviously came her to generate then it would have really pronounced itself.

However that did not happen. I have no doubt the media will now see amanda Knox as fair game after these vicious attacks. She will be blamed for orchestrating a hate campaign against the Kerchers and it could have escalated into a big news story. The timing is much more than a co incidence.

Whether i am being paranoid or not these attacks could end up hurting the very person this forum purports to protect which i think is an almost desired irony sometimes.



Ok, I know I said I was out but I was too hurt a few minutes ago to read this comment after I read the one I just posted about. Make sense? I am flattered that you think I'm a professional journalist. I did aspire to be a journalist about 25 years ago but there was just no work out there so I switched paths. The admins are free to check my IP address if they feel so inclined. Google me and you won't find anything about me except an obituary for my husband in 2001. I work in a nursing and rehab facility...twenty years this August, thank you very much.

McGirr, I am sorry that my posts offended you so much. I guess i didn't realize the Kerchers were so off limits and I tried to word my post carefully as not to be too harsh. I didn't call them any names, I only called their actions "suspicious". But I didn't mean to cause such a ruckus. It's just that I have a hard time with the Kerchers having been in a very similar situation myself. I felt those feelings. I know how they feel. And I just can't understand them. And I don't think it's healthy to find a home for misplaced anger and hurt. That's all.

I've said my peace. Wish you all the best!


Tableforme,
I did not find your posts to be inappropriate. The Kerchers are not an 'off limits' topic as long as it is not in the form of blatant insults.

McGirr,
To clarify, no one that I know of on this forum was friends with Amanda before this happened. Several here have met Amanda at a celebration party and some a bit more. Neither Bruce and I are friends with Amanda outside being part of her support network. Bruce met her once and I have not, but have exchange a few messages.

I appreciate you having Amanda's back by watching for potential harm to her. I fear in doing so you have most likely insulted completely innocent members.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:35 pm

Sarah wrote:
Tablebeforme wrote:
McGirr wrote:
I actually stated as much in my previous post. Perhaps i am straying from my goal. I genuinely believe Tableforme is a professional journalist that came here to merge an anti-kercher element into the forum. I do not know why and i am not sure what was behind this.

A few weeks ago when a new poster arrived called 'Tableforme'. i was dazzled by her gifted writing like everybody else. The first time 'Tableforme' commented about the kerchers it caught my attention. It seemed out of place and took me by surprise. However it is only now i realise this was a deliberate sabotage by a professional. It is no secret that IAF has a very if not too liberal and laid back moderator approach. i think this was taken advantage of by these imposters. read 'tableforme' post about a drunk driver she knew. This is not only talent ,this woman writes with professional and experienced skill. Notice she cannot help let in some of her familiarity with journalism in her posts and the use of journalist lingo.

I am also suspicious of 'mafia buster' as he was particularly vicious in his attack on the kerchers and also a relative newcomer to IAF.(edit) Also 'numbers' a newcomer also made an attack in a post against the Kercher's and i am sorry to say as did 'anonsy'. I don't suspect 'Supernaut' he just harbours a little resentment against IAF and is a general trouble raiser who likes attention. I doubt he is even aware of what he is doing and in fairness it was his ranting about the Kerchers that made me realise what was happening or maybe the old fox knew all along. At this point in time, right now; I am not trying to have a go at Supernaut, but if that is how it is perceived maybe i am damaged goods too.

Amanda knox is connected to Injustice Anywhere personally and we know there are strict rules about what you can and can not say about Amanda and we also know she has friends and i think family that post here but certainly friends do. We know Bruce and Sarah are a friend of hers too. As tableforme/supernaut and/mafiabuster have suggested the kerchers are manipulating the media and are responsible for the article against Amanda Knox, however it could also be proven to a much greater probability that Knox is behind the attack on the kercher family right here on this very forum. Had tableforme gotten started that avalanche of disenchanting posts about the kerchers she obviously came her to generate then it would have really pronounced itself.

However that did not happen. I have no doubt the media will now see amanda Knox as fair game after these vicious attacks. She will be blamed for orchestrating a hate campaign against the Kerchers and it could have escalated into a big news story. The timing is much more than a co incidence.

Whether i am being paranoid or not these attacks could end up hurting the very person this forum purports to protect which i think is an almost desired irony sometimes.



Ok, I know I said I was out but I was too hurt a few minutes ago to read this comment after I read the one I just posted about. Make sense? I am flattered that you think I'm a professional journalist. I did aspire to be a journalist about 25 years ago but there was just no work out there so I switched paths. The admins are free to check my IP address if they feel so inclined. Google me and you won't find anything about me except an obituary for my husband in 2001. I work in a nursing and rehab facility...twenty years this August, thank you very much.

McGirr, I am sorry that my posts offended you so much. I guess i didn't realize the Kerchers were so off limits and I tried to word my post carefully as not to be too harsh. I didn't call them any names, I only called their actions "suspicious". But I didn't mean to cause such a ruckus. It's just that I have a hard time with the Kerchers having been in a very similar situation myself. I felt those feelings. I know how they feel. And I just can't understand them. And I don't think it's healthy to find a home for misplaced anger and hurt. That's all.

I've said my peace. Wish you all the best!


Tableforme,
I did not find your posts to be inappropriate. The Kerchers are not an 'off limits' topic as long as it is not in the form of blatant insults.

McGirr,
To clarify, no one that I know of on this forum was friends with Amanda before this happened. Several here have met Amanda at a celebration party and some a bit more. Neither Bruce and I are friends with Amanda outside being part of her support network. Bruce met her once and I have not, but have exchange a few messages.

I appreciate you having Amanda's back by watching for potential harm to her. I fear in doing so you have most likely insulted completely innocent members.


If I insulted members it was members that insulted the victims family. The only person I would have any recourse to would be 'numbers'. I see you have moved the entire issue onto another thread. I have responded in that thread to the issue out of courtesy. The Kerchers are not an ''of limits' topic as long as it is part of a rational construct. Those blasé and derogative comments by Tableforme are insulting.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:01 pm

anonshy wrote:
ScifiTom wrote:To everyone

Hey everyone, here is my video of something to watch even if it is media news, and let see if I can get a discussion on to this and anyway enjoy the video and talk to you soon everyone!!!

Watch on youtube.com


Sounds like a good read! hav eyou read the book? anything relevant to apply to this case?

Anon


I am glad ScifiTom found this. I have brought up the Joseph O Dell case on a few occasions. It is relevant, and shows what a good heart the Italian people have. They went out of their way to try save a wrongly convicted American on death row. He was finally executed only when his lawyer wrote the word appeal on his petition to the supreme court when it should have stated petition. No doubt it was one of those corporate elected Judges. A true fcking grammer nazi.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby ScifiTom » Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:48 am

McGirr wrote:
anonshy wrote:
ScifiTom wrote:To everyone

Hey everyone, here is my video of something to watch even if it is media news, and let see if I can get a discussion on to this and anyway enjoy the video and talk to you soon everyone!!!

Watch on youtube.com


Sounds like a good read! hav eyou read the book? anything relevant to apply to this case?

Anon


I am glad ScifiTom found this. I have brought up the Joseph O Dell case on a few occasions. It is relevant, and shows what a good heart the Italian people have. They went out of their way to try save a wrongly convicted American on death row. He was finally executed only when his lawyer wrote the word appeal on his petition to the supreme court when it should have stated petition. No doubt it was one of those corporate elected Judges. A true fcking grammer nazi.


To Anon & McGirr

Thank you both, even as knowing Anon, I don't see your replies even I am ignoring you, in my list, of not being shown. I am surprise that you reply to me, of unknown and I still take my word for it, of reading novel, even no I have not read her book yet. But I will go to the book store and check it out and read it, and if I like it. I will buy it, through my kindle. Plus McGirr thanks if you liked the video. I do my work as best as I can for the innocent project of why I care for the rights of everyone, even like Amanda Knox & also Kirsten B. Lobsitoed(sp)!!!
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:25 am

ScifiTom wrote:
McGirr wrote:
anonshy wrote:
ScifiTom wrote:To everyone

Hey everyone, here is my video of something to watch even if it is media news, and let see if I can get a discussion on to this and anyway enjoy the video and talk to you soon everyone!!!
Sounds like a good read! hav eyou read the book? anything relevant to apply to this case?

Anon


I am glad ScifiTom found this. I have brought up the Joseph O Dell case on a few occasions. It is relevant, and shows what a good heart the Italian people have. They went out of their way to try save a wrongly convicted American on death row. He was finally executed only when his lawyer wrote the word appeal on his petition to the supreme court when it should have stated petition. No doubt it was one of those corporate elected Judges. A true fcking grammer nazi.


To Anon & McGirr

Thank you both, even as knowing Anon, I don't see your replies even I am ignoring you, in my list, of not being shown. I am surprise that you reply to me, of unknown and I still take my word for it, of reading novel, even no I have not read her book yet. But I will go to the book store and check it out and read it, and if I like it. I will buy it, through my kindle. Plus McGirr thanks if you liked the video. I do my work as best as I can for the innocent project of why I care for the rights of everyone, even like Amanda Knox & also Kirsten B. Lobsitoed(sp)!!!


Thanks ScifiTom
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby Alex_K » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:25 pm

I see that Harry Rag and other guilters have been tweeting mainstream journalists with links to their deceitful "wiki".

Are we countering this disinformation campaign with links to the real wiki? Is there a way to stop this once and for all? Outing Rag or taking the pretend wiki offline perhaps?

Or focusing on having a respectable publication write about the guilter's effort to deceive the public? Also, on the history of personal attacks by guilters and the general unsavoriness of those characters. We haven't unmasked Rag yet but Graham Phillips and the Italian who stabbed someone in Milan could serve as great poster kids.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby standforprinciple » Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:45 pm

McGirr wrote:
Sarah wrote:
Tablebeforme wrote:
McGirr wrote:
I actually stated as much in my previous post. Perhaps i am straying from my goal. I genuinely believe Tableforme is a professional journalist that came here to merge an anti-kercher element into the forum. I do not know why and i am not sure what was behind this.

A few weeks ago when a new poster arrived called 'Tableforme'. i was dazzled by her gifted writing like everybody else. The first time 'Tableforme' commented about the kerchers it caught my attention. It seemed out of place and took me by surprise. However it is only now i realise this was a deliberate sabotage by a professional. It is no secret that IAF has a very if not too liberal and laid back moderator approach. i think this was taken advantage of by these imposters. read 'tableforme' post about a drunk driver she knew. This is not only talent ,this woman writes with professional and experienced skill. Notice she cannot help let in some of her familiarity with journalism in her posts and the use of journalist lingo.

I am also suspicious of 'mafia buster' as he was particularly vicious in his attack on the kerchers and also a relative newcomer to IAF.(edit) Also 'numbers' a newcomer also made an attack in a post against the Kercher's and i am sorry to say as did 'anonsy'. I don't suspect 'Supernaut' he just harbours a little resentment against IAF and is a general trouble raiser who likes attention. I doubt he is even aware of what he is doing and in fairness it was his ranting about the Kerchers that made me realise what was happening or maybe the old fox knew all along. At this point in time, right now; I am not trying to have a go at Supernaut, but if that is how it is perceived maybe i am damaged goods too.

Amanda knox is connected to Injustice Anywhere personally and we know there are strict rules about what you can and can not say about Amanda and we also know she has friends and i think family that post here but certainly friends do. We know Bruce and Sarah are a friend of hers too. As tableforme/supernaut and/mafiabuster have suggested the kerchers are manipulating the media and are responsible for the article against Amanda Knox, however it could also be proven to a much greater probability that Knox is behind the attack on the kercher family right here on this very forum. Had tableforme gotten started that avalanche of disenchanting posts about the kerchers she obviously came her to generate then it would have really pronounced itself.

However that did not happen. I have no doubt the media will now see amanda Knox as fair game after these vicious attacks. She will be blamed for orchestrating a hate campaign against the Kerchers and it could have escalated into a big news story. The timing is much more than a co incidence.

Whether i am being paranoid or not these attacks could end up hurting the very person this forum purports to protect which i think is an almost desired irony sometimes.



Ok, I know I said I was out but I was too hurt a few minutes ago to read this comment after I read the one I just posted about. Make sense? I am flattered that you think I'm a professional journalist. I did aspire to be a journalist about 25 years ago but there was just no work out there so I switched paths. The admins are free to check my IP address if they feel so inclined. Google me and you won't find anything about me except an obituary for my husband in 2001. I work in a nursing and rehab facility...twenty years this August, thank you very much.

McGirr, I am sorry that my posts offended you so much. I guess i didn't realize the Kerchers were so off limits and I tried to word my post carefully as not to be too harsh. I didn't call them any names, I only called their actions "suspicious". But I didn't mean to cause such a ruckus. It's just that I have a hard time with the Kerchers having been in a very similar situation myself. I felt those feelings. I know how they feel. And I just can't understand them. And I don't think it's healthy to find a home for misplaced anger and hurt. That's all.

I've said my peace. Wish you all the best!


Tableforme,
I did not find your posts to be inappropriate. The Kerchers are not an 'off limits' topic as long as it is not in the form of blatant insults.

McGirr,
To clarify, no one that I know of on this forum was friends with Amanda before this happened. Several here have met Amanda at a celebration party and some a bit more. Neither Bruce and I are friends with Amanda outside being part of her support network. Bruce met her once and I have not, but have exchange a few messages.

I appreciate you having Amanda's back by watching for potential harm to her. I fear in doing so you have most likely insulted completely innocent members.


If I insulted members it was members that insulted the victims family. The only person I would have any recourse to would be 'numbers'. I see you have moved the entire issue onto another thread. I have responded in that thread to the issue out of courtesy. The Kerchers are not an ''of limits' topic as long as it is part of a rational construct. Those blasé and derogative comments by Tableforme are insulting.


McGirr, you mention insulting the victim's family. Were you referring to what has been done to AK's family including her siblings or what has been done to RS's family? AK and her 'essence' have been distorted and destroyed....'murdered'.

The Maresca only represents the Kercher's with their permission. I find their decisions questionable. If they did not agree they would fire him?

I wish that they could find solace from other's whose loved ones faced murder....I am thinking of the ordeal of the parents of Sandy HOOK, how they acted and even of criticism levied against some.

I feel that the prohibition against questioning their actions is a further scapegoating of AK, who has only spoken in a kind manner about her friend. It means that AK can be horribly attacked and vilified and those that care are not allowed to respond....it has been made a 'sin' to respond. There is nothing wrong with pointing out financial gain or media 'connections'

Horrible and nonsensical personal things were said by the court based on the statements of the British 'ladies' and repeated on post boards....and apparently condoned by the Kercher's....to respond is to 'insult' MK which is unfair to and destroys AK....scapegoating.

The police, prosecution and media created the unwanted attention on AK....blame them

Also, there is a problem accessing this discussion...I had to enter via FB
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:35 pm

standforprinciple wrote:
McGirr wrote:
Sarah wrote:
Tablebeforme wrote:
McGirr wrote:
I actually stated as much in my previous post. Perhaps i am straying from my goal. I genuinely believe Tableforme is a professional journalist that came here to merge an anti-kercher element into the forum. I do not know why and i am not sure what was behind this.

A few weeks ago when a new poster arrived called 'Tableforme'. i was dazzled by her gifted writing like everybody else. The first time 'Tableforme' commented about the kerchers it caught my attention. It seemed out of place and took me by surprise. However it is only now i realise this was a deliberate sabotage by a professional. It is no secret that IAF has a very if not too liberal and laid back moderator approach. i think this was taken advantage of by these imposters. read 'tableforme' post about a drunk driver she knew. This is not only talent ,this woman writes with professional and experienced skill. Notice she cannot help let in some of her familiarity with journalism in her posts and the use of journalist lingo.

I am also suspicious of 'mafia buster' as he was particularly vicious in his attack on the kerchers and also a relative newcomer to IAF.(edit) Also 'numbers' a newcomer also made an attack in a post against the Kercher's and i am sorry to say as did 'anonsy'. I don't suspect 'Supernaut' he just harbours a little resentment against IAF and is a general trouble raiser who likes attention. I doubt he is even aware of what he is doing and in fairness it was his ranting about the Kerchers that made me realise what was happening or maybe the old fox knew all along. At this point in time, right now; I am not trying to have a go at Supernaut, but if that is how it is perceived maybe i am damaged goods too.

Amanda knox is connected to Injustice Anywhere personally and we know there are strict rules about what you can and can not say about Amanda and we also know she has friends and i think family that post here but certainly friends do. We know Bruce and Sarah are a friend of hers too. As tableforme/supernaut and/mafiabuster have suggested the kerchers are manipulating the media and are responsible for the article against Amanda Knox, however it could also be proven to a much greater probability that Knox is behind the attack on the kercher family right here on this very forum. Had tableforme gotten started that avalanche of disenchanting posts about the kerchers she obviously came her to generate then it would have really pronounced itself.

However that did not happen. I have no doubt the media will now see amanda Knox as fair game after these vicious attacks. She will be blamed for orchestrating a hate campaign against the Kerchers and it could have escalated into a big news story. The timing is much more than a co incidence.

Whether i am being paranoid or not these attacks could end up hurting the very person this forum purports to protect which i think is an almost desired irony sometimes.



Ok, I know I said I was out but I was too hurt a few minutes ago to read this comment after I read the one I just posted about. Make sense? I am flattered that you think I'm a professional journalist. I did aspire to be a journalist about 25 years ago but there was just no work out there so I switched paths. The admins are free to check my IP address if they feel so inclined. Google me and you won't find anything about me except an obituary for my husband in 2001. I work in a nursing and rehab facility...twenty years this August, thank you very much.

McGirr, I am sorry that my posts offended you so much. I guess i didn't realize the Kerchers were so off limits and I tried to word my post carefully as not to be too harsh. I didn't call them any names, I only called their actions "suspicious". But I didn't mean to cause such a ruckus. It's just that I have a hard time with the Kerchers having been in a very similar situation myself. I felt those feelings. I know how they feel. And I just can't understand them. And I don't think it's healthy to find a home for misplaced anger and hurt. That's all.

I've said my peace. Wish you all the best!


Tableforme,
I did not find your posts to be inappropriate. The Kerchers are not an 'off limits' topic as long as it is not in the form of blatant insults.

McGirr,
To clarify, no one that I know of on this forum was friends with Amanda before this happened. Several here have met Amanda at a celebration party and some a bit more. Neither Bruce and I are friends with Amanda outside being part of her support network. Bruce met her once and I have not, but have exchange a few messages.

I appreciate you having Amanda's back by watching for potential harm to her. I fear in doing so you have most likely insulted completely innocent members.


If I insulted members it was members that insulted the victims family. The only person I would have any recourse to would be 'numbers'. I see you have moved the entire issue onto another thread. I have responded in that thread to the issue out of courtesy. The Kerchers are not an ''of limits' topic as long as it is part of a rational construct. Those blasé and derogative comments by Tableforme are insulting.


McGirr, you mention insulting the victim's family. Were you referring to what has been done to AK's family including her siblings or what has been done to RS's family? AK and her 'essence' have been distorted and destroyed....'murdered'.

The Maresca only represents the Kercher's with their permission. I find their decisions questionable. If they did not agree they would fire him?

I wish that they could find solace from other's whose loved ones faced murder....I am thinking of the ordeal of the parents of Sandy HOOK, how they acted and even of criticism levied against some.

I feel that the prohibition against questioning their actions is a further scapegoating of AK, who has only spoken in a kind manner about her friend. It means that AK can be horribly attacked and vilified and those that care are not allowed to respond....it has been made a 'sin' to respond. There is nothing wrong with pointing out financial gain or media 'connections'

Horrible and nonsensical personal things were said by the court based on the statements of the British 'ladies' and repeated on post boards....and apparently condoned by the Kercher's....to respond is to 'insult' MK which is unfair to and destroys AK....scapegoating.

The police, prosecution and media created the unwanted attention on AK....blame them

Also, there is a problem accessing this discussion...I had to enter via FB


I responded to your post on the new thread created for this sensitive issue. viewtopic.php?f=85&t=3041&p=144469#p144469
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby TomZ53 » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:21 pm

McGirr wrote:
TomZ53 wrote:McGirr fails yet again and instead proceeds to obfustate. Such disingenuous behavior is duly noted. The question is whether it appropriate to include civil litigation in a criminal proceeding or not?

Mcgirr, are you capable of actually answering a straight forward question or not? So far everything you have provided us say emphatically NO!!! McGirr asbolutley cannot answer a dierct question in a straight forward manner. You have made your point quite clear to the forum. Thanks


It is appropriate to include Civil litigation in a criminal proceeding.


McGirr,

Finally, a straight answer, you wrote, "It is appropriate to include Civil litigation in a criminal proceeding."

Fascinating.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby TomZ53 » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:47 pm

Getting back on topic, what is going on with the media anyway? Check out this recent link "Almost Everything You've Read About Amanda Knox Is Wrong" http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-mari ... 62332.html
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby McGirr » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:40 am

TomZ53 wrote:
McGirr wrote:
TomZ53 wrote:McGirr fails yet again and instead proceeds to obfustate. Such disingenuous behavior is duly noted. The question is whether it appropriate to include civil litigation in a criminal proceeding or not?

Mcgirr, are you capable of actually answering a straight forward question or not? So far everything you have provided us say emphatically NO!!! McGirr asbolutley cannot answer a dierct question in a straight forward manner. You have made your point quite clear to the forum. Thanks


It is appropriate to include Civil litigation in a criminal proceeding.


McGirr,

Finally, a straight answer, you wrote, "It is appropriate to include Civil litigation in a criminal proceeding."

Fascinating.


Ignorantia juris non excusat

We expanded on this subject in the new thread created by Sarah. It has been proven how fruitless your protest is. Your fighting the same justice system 750 million European people serve under. Should every American citizen in the United States agree with you and we held a democratic vote. You would fail to overcome the consensus of the greater population of citizens in Europe. You would struggle with a small percentage each time.

I am not saying your wrong in your criticism's of the how this system is failing. I agree that what is happening in the Italian court is a travesty. I just think your wasting resources and precious time protesting the existence of something that is not within any our immediate powers to change. We can change this travesty, but it is utterly fruitless to arrogantly and offensively petition for a fundamental change in an ancient system that is anchored historically deep within the foundations of many countries judicial practices, which is based on a highly complex sociological and idealogical law reform, and defined within a plethora of precedent decision's.

How do you ascend or supersede the vast numbers that make up the Precedent that is intertwined almost anatomically within the layered marble floors of the great European legal institutions. How do you propose we supersede such a institution with a few month's. I am just asking you to be practicable.

The European Union is reforming the legal system across Europe and as such it is a vastly complicated reform. You have to amend specific countries constitutions which in turn requires a vote by that countries citizens. I am not sure if it is the system or the people that needs reform but in Italy since this a recurring problem then i agree with you that it is inevitable that the Italian system will be reformed.

If we best determine what that model will eventually consist of then it is a model we can petition with. A model we can use to Criticise the shortfalls that are occurring presently in this trial presently that would not occur under the new model. Then we can sure that carefully constructed criticism will have a better effect.

You need to consult with an expert in European legislation and law reform and construct what will eventually be the Italian judicial system. A more precise criticism is required. Your fighting not just Italys legal institution but your senselessly fighting other similar legal institutions like Germanys Nebenklage and Germany is a powerful EC member.

You may recall the Supernaut arguing his Neorealist views about how the media is controlled by the individual desire's of the more powerful
European Council members. If he believes in what he says and his desire to tear down the Italian Judicial system then he must also realise that Germanys Nebenklage would also have to be torn down. The fallacy is quite evident. Germany is a powerful EC member. You realise the difficulty of doing this in a few months.

It would be better to find the ultimate European model that all courts will function in the European Union and petition those futuristic and more realistic views to the supreme court in Italy. These very views that are no doubt on the minds of Italian and other European legal thinkers. Try to captivate your audience, and communicate with them on a mutual level and not deafen them by being arrogant and offensive. Try be a part of the change rather than be frustrated by it and take the time to listen to posters like Pmop57 who have much better understanding of these challenges.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby imgleader » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:55 pm

The current rendition of the media exhibits the same problems as the history text books used to educate American children. Once an attractive mistake or lie has occurred, it will be repeated endlessly in new text books. If the error innocent or intentional has become widely used no one will ever question the facts on which was supposedly based. Perhaps, the best example of this is the wide spread belief that eating carrots improves vision. In fact this is the most successful example of intentional misdirection by a national intelligence agency attempting to deceive an enemy. In 1943 or 1944 the British had finally developed a radar set small enough to be put into a single engine night fighter aircraft. As a result the numbers of German bombers shot down at night went up enormously. Knowing that the Germans were smart people, the British intelligence service, MI-5, came up with a cover story to mislead German intelligence as to the cause of their recent success. The eating of carrots by British pilots to improve their vision story was the result. it may not have fooled the Germans, but generations of American mothers bought into it and it became as accepted as gospel. If no one opposes the lies about Amanda Knox and a supposed cocaine connection the Italian media, public, and future trial Judges, and jurors will accept is as truth without further examination. At least, the Italian judiciaries' inability to think rationally and critically has allowed past calumnies to become accepted as proven facts.
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Re: What’s wrong with the media?

Postby standforprinciple » Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:28 pm

Alex_K wrote:I see that Harry Rag and other guilters have been tweeting mainstream journalists with links to their deceitful "wiki".

Are we countering this disinformation campaign with links to the real wiki? Is there a way to stop this once and for all? Outing Rag or taking the pretend wiki offline perhaps?

Or focusing on having a respectable publication write about the guilter's effort to deceive the public? Also, on the history of personal attacks by guilters and the general unsavoriness of those characters. We haven't unmasked Rag yet but Graham Phillips and the Italian who stabbed someone in Milan could serve as great poster kids.



Thank you for informing and raising these issues. I read this site to learn information that is helpful to AK & RS. Understanding sources of the smear campaign is very important. I agree with your suggestions.

I also thank you for your informative posts correcting guilter false statements on other forums. I wish there were more supporters like you
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