HIV lie

HIV lie

Postby welshman » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:41 pm

Amanda was lied to about having HIV. I have a few questions about this :-

* Have the prosecution explained why Amanda and was told she had HIV?

* Is it standard practice to test prisoners in Italy for HIV?

* The haters have justified the HIV lie by saying Amanda was told the test could be a false positive and further tests were needed to confirm whether Amanda definitaly had HIV. Was this true or was Amanda simply told she had HIV?

* How much of a gap was there between Amanda being told she had HIV and then being told she did not?

* Have the prosecution explained why the list of sexual patners which was written by Amanda was leaked to the media?

* The prosecution leaked the list of Amanda's sexual parters to the media. Amanda listed 7 partners in her list which was all the sexual partners she had. The list leaked by the police distorted this and gave the impression Amanda had 7 sexual partners during her two months in Italy. The purpose of this leak was to attack Amanda's character. If the prosecution had a mountain of solid evidence and a strong case against Amanda and Raffaele, why did the prosecution have to resort to the HIV lie? Do you feel the HIV lie is a clear indication the prosecution had a weak case and had little or no evidence against Amanda and Raffaele? Is it argued that having to resort to character assassination is used when the police and prosecution lack evidence against suspects.
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Re: HIV lie

Postby Merlinovich » Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:35 pm

welshman wrote:Amanda was lied to about having HIV. I have a few questions about this :-

* Have the prosecution explained why Amanda and was told she had HIV?

They wash their hands - had nothing to do with it. I wonder ...

welshman wrote:* Is it standard practice to test prisoners in Italy for HIV?

Don't think so, but I think the blood test they took is pretty standard. Why they used that to check for HIV is a good question - maybe because Meredith suffered a sexual assault (by Guede, of course). But I'm only guessing.

welshman wrote:* The haters have justified the HIV lie by saying Amanda was told the test could be a false positive and further tests were needed to confirm whether Amanda definitely had HIV. Was this true or was Amanda simply told she had HIV?

The former is true, not the latter. All the same it was clearly an emotional blow for her, the time it lasted. But she did the right thing, began to identify who could have been contaged. I wonder if Rudy would have made a list of his former sex partners in the same situation. But I forget, Rudy was always the "poor Rudy" to the prosecution, they would never play tricks on HIM.

welshman wrote:* How much of a gap was there between Amanda being told she had HIV and then being told she did not?

I believe 2 weeks.

welshman wrote:* Have the prosecution explained why the list of sexual patners which was written by Amanda was leaked to the media?

No, the explanation should rather come from the Capanne prison administration.

welshman wrote:* The prosecution leaked the list of Amanda's sexual parters to the media. Amanda listed 7 partners in her list which was all the sexual partners she had. The list leaked by the police distorted this and gave the impression Amanda had 7 sexual partners during her two months in Italy. The purpose of this leak was to attack Amanda's character. If the prosecution had a mountain of solid evidence and a strong case against Amanda and Raffaele, why did the prosecution have to resort to the HIV lie? Do you feel the HIV lie is a clear indication the prosecution had a weak case and had little or no evidence against Amanda and Raffaele? Is it argued that having to resort to character assassination is used when the police and prosecution lack evidence against suspects.

The prosecution was playing every dirty trick in the book - probably because they had such a weak case.
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Re: HIV lie

Postby Hans » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:30 pm

welshman wrote:Amanda was lied to about having HIV. I have a few questions about this :-

* Have the prosecution explained why Amanda and was told she had HIV?

* Is it standard practice to test prisoners in Italy for HIV?

* The haters have justified the HIV lie by saying Amanda was told the test could be a false positive and further tests were needed to confirm whether Amanda definitaly had HIV. Was this true or was Amanda simply told she had HIV?

* How much of a gap was there between Amanda being told she had HIV and then being told she did not?

* Have the prosecution explained why the list of sexual patners which was written by Amanda was leaked to the media?

* The prosecution leaked the list of Amanda's sexual parters to the media. Amanda listed 7 partners in her list which was all the sexual partners she had. The list leaked by the police distorted this and gave the impression Amanda had 7 sexual partners during her two months in Italy. The purpose of this leak was to attack Amanda's character. If the prosecution had a mountain of solid evidence and a strong case against Amanda and Raffaele, why did the prosecution have to resort to the HIV lie? Do you feel the HIV lie is a clear indication the prosecution had a weak case and had little or no evidence against Amanda and Raffaele? Is it argued that having to resort to character assassination is used when the police and prosecution lack evidence against suspects.

What's interesting about the HIV-scare is the timing. Guede was arrested in in Germany on November 20th, two days later Amanda Knox is told she's HIV-positive. How long does it take to do a blood test? More than two weeks? :noway: :
Image
...And why is she writing about "the list..." ? :twocents:
He [Raffaele] is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque caricature that is “Foxy Knoxy”
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Re: HIV lie

Postby Dougm » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:35 pm

Hans wrote:
welshman wrote:Amanda was lied to about having HIV. I have a few questions about this :-

* Have the prosecution explained why Amanda and was told she had HIV?

* Is it standard practice to test prisoners in Italy for HIV?

* The haters have justified the HIV lie by saying Amanda was told the test could be a false positive and further tests were needed to confirm whether Amanda definitaly had HIV. Was this true or was Amanda simply told she had HIV?

* How much of a gap was there between Amanda being told she had HIV and then being told she did not?

* Have the prosecution explained why the list of sexual patners which was written by Amanda was leaked to the media?

* The prosecution leaked the list of Amanda's sexual parters to the media. Amanda listed 7 partners in her list which was all the sexual partners she had. The list leaked by the police distorted this and gave the impression Amanda had 7 sexual partners during her two months in Italy. The purpose of this leak was to attack Amanda's character. If the prosecution had a mountain of solid evidence and a strong case against Amanda and Raffaele, why did the prosecution have to resort to the HIV lie? Do you feel the HIV lie is a clear indication the prosecution had a weak case and had little or no evidence against Amanda and Raffaele? Is it argued that having to resort to character assassination is used when the police and prosecution lack evidence against suspects.

What's interesting about the HIV-scare is the timing. Guede was arrested in in Germany on November 20th, two days later Amanda Knox is told she's HIV-positive. How long does it take to do a blood test? More than two weeks? :noway: :
Image
...And why is she writing about "the list..." ? :twocents:


Well, these days, it takes only a few minutes to get an HIV test result. But in 2007, I don't know. Two weeks seems excessively long to me, especially when the purpose is to confirm or annul a false positive.
When you berate someone and push them and confuse them and lie to them and convince them that they're wrong you're not finding the truth.

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Re: HIV lie

Postby Hans » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:34 pm

Dougm wrote:
Hans wrote:What's interesting about the HIV-scare is the timing. Guede was arrested in in Germany on November 20th, two days later Amanda Knox is told she's HIV-positive. How long does it take to do a blood test? More than two weeks? :noway: :
Image
...And why is she writing about "the list..." ? :twocents:


Well, these days, it takes only a few minutes to get an HIV test result. But in 2007, I don't know. Two weeks seems excessively long to me, especially when the purpose is to confirm or annul a false positive.
I don't know, but if those tests are usually done on suspects taken into custody, why did they wait to give the results to Amanda Knox two weeks after she was put into a cell with another woman ... ?
He [Raffaele] is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque caricature that is “Foxy Knoxy”
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Re: HIV lie

Postby LondonSupporter » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:56 pm

The test was a scam. The purpose was to get Amanda to state that one of her sexual partners was Rudy Guede and so confirm that there was a relationship between her and another defendant. It is reasonably certain that no doctor was involved but nobody seems to know who the fake 'doctor' was. The scam was against WHO guidelines that state that a patient should be advised before an HIV test is carried out and should give consent. If the result is positive they should be offered counselling. None of this was done. I believe that there are/were grounds for this to be taken further by Amanda's lawyers but everyone has been/is so concerned with dealing with the murder charge that the many other corrupt and illegal practices of the prosecution have pretty much gone unchallenged. This was one of the worst and would not be tolerated in a civilised country.
"Life lived somehow for love is life never wasted." - Amanda Knox
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Re: HIV lie

Postby Supernaut » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:22 pm

I still find this to be the MOST repulsive stunt these G*damned mofo's pulled.

Just IMAGINE how Amanda must have felt after this f**king lie was fed to her!

These f***ers terrorised her non-stop from Nov 5th 2007 on - I'm amazed she kept her sanity.

I reckon most of the psychological and emotional consequences of this abuse only manifested themselves AFTER she got home, in the form of 'classic' PTSD.
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Re: HIV lie

Postby Helen6 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:55 pm

Hi everyone. I have seen a conversation about this online, and one person says the first HIV test was actually positive and that it is the reason Amanda Knox was told that she might have HIV, but the other person says that it was not and that it was a lie to get Amanda Knox to make a list of her partners. So my question is: is there any proof either way?
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Re: HIV lie

Postby Hans » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:39 pm

Helen6 wrote:Hi everyone. I have seen a conversation about this online, and one person says the first HIV test was actually positive and that it is the reason Amanda Knox was told that she might have HIV, but the other person says that it was not and that it was a lie to get Amanda Knox to make a list of her partners. So my question is: is there any proof either way?

Hi Helen6, welcome aboard :)
To answer your question first: No, there isn't proof either way, to have that one would have to look at the actual blood-test results, if they exist.

But the whole thing IMO stinks, for the following reasons:
From the diary entry it looks like they might have shown her some piece of paper with the "result" but from her book, it looks like they have just told her that she was HIV positive:
Amanda Knox, Waiting to Be Heard pg. 213 wrote:I was nursing these hurts when I got news so shattering that it blotted out almost everything else. I was at my nightly infirmary appointment, where I was meeting with a doctor I’d never seen before. Dressed in a white lab coat, my medical file in hand, he said, “We got the results of your blood test.” His bedside manner was as warm as gelato. “You tested positive for HIV.”


It's interesting that in the diary entry she wrote about "the" list instead of "a" list, because in the diary entry she also "corrected" the "in Italy" to "in general", so where did she get the idea of "the list"?
Amanda Knox, Waiting to Be Heard pg. 213 wrote:Argirò was standing a foot behind me when I got the news. “Maybe you should have thought about that before you slept with lots of people,” he chided. I spun around. “I didn’t have sex with anyone who had AIDS,” I snapped, though it was possible that one of the men I’d hooked up with, or even Raffaele, was HIV-positive.
“You should think about who you slept with and who you got it from.”


As I wrote above another fishy thing is the timing. They told her that she was HIV-positive and suggeted she'd "think about who you slept with and who you got it from.” just the day after Guede was arrested in Germany, were they trying to find a connection between Guede and Knox?

It's also interesting what Barbie Nadeau (a pro-guilt "journalist" and "writer") wrote about this in her book:
Barbie Nadeau, Angel Face pg. 27 wrote:After she was arrested, the police set a trap for Amanda by telling her she had tested positive for HIV.
This sort of psychological trickery is commonly used by investigators in Italy to illicit a confession. In this case, it led a terrified Amanda to make a grave error that would permanently taint her image. She listed all the men she had slept with recently, trying to decide who might have infected her. The prosecutors knew the press would jump at these salacious details of Amanda’s sex life, and one of the detectives close to the case leaked the document to British tabloid reporter Nick Pisa, who broke the story.


Another thing is, that her lawyer Dalla Vedova brought it up during his closing arguments (pages 193-195) to Nencini and was dressed down by Nencini for bringing it up without having the "test results to prove that it happened:
Pertanto credo che... ora a integrazione, il collega Magnante è precisissimo, Presidente, per tornare al discorso dell’HIV, noi abbiamo trovato i riferimenti. Stanno nel diario. Nel diario a pagina 33, sequestrato, lei parla che “la scorsa notte” – parliamo del 22 novembre 2007, quindicesimo giorno, questo è il suo diario personale – “la scorsa notte, poco prima di andare a letto mi hanno fatto scendere per vedere ancora un altro dottore; aveva i risultati di un test che mi aveva fatto, secondo i quali ero positiva all’HIV; mi ha anche detto di non preoccuparmi perché potrebbe trattarsi di un errore; mi faranno il test la prossima settimana. La mia testa, un atroce mal di testa, come mai? Sono in prigione per un crimine e potrei anche avere l’HIV. Voglio sposarmi, voglio avere dei bambini, voglio creare qualcosa di positivo, voglio diventare vecchia, voglio il mio tempo, voglio la mia vita. Perché tutto questo? Non riesco a credere”. Ecco la lista delle persone con cui ha avuto... quindi c’è un riferimento ben preciso su questo. E la circostanza viene anche riferita alla mamma, quindi c’è l’intercettazione e c’è anche la deposizione del 19/06 del 2009, pagina 83, di Edda Mellas, che è la mamma, la quale anche lei dice che appunto la figlia avrebbe riferito, confidato, che in carcere a un certo punto gli hanno fatto un accertamento medico ed è risultata positiva all’HIV. E poi spiega che poi in realtà il problema si è risolto. Quindi la circostanza viene provata da questi elementi.
PRESIDENTE – Sì. Ora, mi scusi l’interruzione, ma volevo chiarire questo aspetto perché non vorrei si desse l’impressione, o aver dato l’impressione di essere, come dire, estremamente pignolo su questioni di certificati. Ma siccome se Dio vuole è tutto registrato, possiamo risentirlo se vogliamo...
AVV. DALLA VEDOVA – No...
PRESIDENTE - ...nella parte della sua arringa, si capiva che vi erano state due analisi fatte, si capiva, per ottenere delle informazioni dalla Amanda Knox e poi, una volta ottenute le informazioni, si era tranquillizzata la Amanda Knox sul fatto che non era più sieropositiva. Ora, siccome tutta questa attività, se fosse avvenuta, e mi pare di capire che non è avvenuta, con queste finalità, avrebbe dei profili di rilevanza penale, e questa Corte...
AVV. DALLA VEDOVA – Certo.
PRESIDENTE - ...aveva l’obbligo...
AVV. DALLA VEDOVA – Certo.
PRESIDENTE - ...di segnalarli, io ho voluto chiarire questo aspetto, perché poi verba volant, scripta manent. Il verbale è qualcosa che deve corrispondere alla realtà. Oggi, ora viene fuori in maniera molto esatta, che fu fatto quindi un accertamento su Amanda, che fu sbagliato, come tante volte capita, fu ripetuto e fu... e queste notizie provengono da Amanda Knox. Adesso è chiarito l’aspetto, ma non era un’attività, come dire, cervellotica della Corte.
AVV. DALLA VEDOVA – No.
PRESIDENTE – Era per non ritrovarsi poi nella spiacevole situazione, in Camera di Consiglio, di dover decidere che cosa fare di un verbale. Ecco, non volevamo trovarci in questa spiacevolissima situazione. Bene. Detto questo, prego.

Translation (Thank you, Teddy):
Therefore I believe that… now when putting it together, my colleague Magnante is very precise, your Honor, to return to the matter of the HIV test, we have found the references. They are in the diary. In the diary on page 33, seized, she writes that “last night” – we’re talking about 22 November 2007, the fifteenth day, this is her personal diary – “Last night, just before going to bed they made me go down to see another doctor; he had the results of a test that he had done on me, which said I was HIV positive; he also told me not to worry because it could be an error; they will do [another] test next week. My head, an atrocious headache, how is it possible? I’m in prison for a crime and I could also have HIV. I want to get married, I want to have children, I want to create something positive, I want to grow old, I want my time, I want my life. Why all of this? I can’t believe it”. Here’s the list of the people with whom she has had… so there’s a very clear reference on this. And the circumstance is also reported to the mother, so there’s also the interception and there’s also the deposition of 19/06 of 2009, page 83, by Edda Mellas, who is the mother, who also says that her daughter reported, privately, that in prison at a certain point they gave her a medical test and it resulted in being HIV positive. And then she explains that in reality the problem was resolved. So the circumstance is proven by these elements.
Nencini: Yes. Now, excuse this interruption, but I wanted to clarify this aspect because I wouldn’t want to give the impression, or to have given the impression of being, how to say, extremely fussy on matters of certificates. But seeing as God willing it’s all recorded, we can listen to it again if we wish…
Dalla Vedova: No…
Nencini: … in the part of your closing arguments, it was understood that two examinations had been carried out, this was understood, to obtain some information from Amanda Knox and then, once the information was obtained, Amanda Knox was calmed down by the fact that she wasn’t HIV positive. Now, seeing as this whole activity, if it happened, and it seems to me that it didn’t happen, with these intentions, this would be a criminal act ,and this Court…
Dalla Vedova: Of course
Nencini: was obliged to…
Dalla Vedova: Of course
Nencini:… to report them, I wanted to clarify this aspect, because then verba Volant, scripta manent [spoken words fly away, written words remain]. The transcript is something which must correspond to reality. Today, now it comes out in a very exact way, that an examination was carried out on Amanda, that it was in error, as so often happens, it was repeated and it was… and this information comes from Amanda Knox. Now this aspect has been clarified, but it wasn't a, how shall we say, a bizarre activity of the Court.
Dalla Vedova: No
Nencini: It was to make sure we didn’t find ourselves in the unpleasant situation, in the closed session, to decide what to do about a transcript. There, we didn’t want to find ourselves in this very unpleasant situation. Good. Having said this, please proceed.

Nencini seems to say that since the defense can't provide the positive HIV-test he thinks that Amanda Knox made it up and insisting on it would be accusing the doctor and the prison staff of a crime, which could/must result in another calunnia charge... Nencini is quoting Art. 368 c.p. to Dalla Vedova, who gets the message and drops the point...
He [Raffaele] is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque caricature that is “Foxy Knoxy”
~ Amanda Knox
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Re: HIV lie

Postby Teddy » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:55 pm

Hans wrote:Nencini seems to say that since the defense can't provide the positive HIV-test he thinks that Amanda Knox made it up and insisting on it would be accusing the doctor and the prison staff of a crime, which could/must result in another calunnia charge...

I think what Nencini is really saying is that it was an honest mistake that so often happens with these medical tests. I'm sure that's not what he really believes (he either believes Knox made it up, or he knows it was a ruse to get her to list her previous partners), but he elegantly avoids having to deal with it.
Amanda Knox: "According to Mignini, we found Meredith at the villa and said, Hey, that stupid bitch. Let’s show Meredith. Let’s get her to play a sex game. I was horrified. Who thinks like that?".... indeed, who thinks like that?
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Re: HIV lie

Postby Hans » Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:10 pm

Teddy wrote:
Hans wrote:Nencini seems to say that since the defense can't provide the positive HIV-test he thinks that Amanda Knox made it up and insisting on it would be accusing the doctor and the prison staff of a crime, which could/must result in another calunnia charge...

I think what Nencini is really saying is that it was an honest mistake that so often happens with these medical tests. I'm sure that's not what he really believes (he either believes Knox made it up, or he knows it was a ruse to get her to list her previous partners), but he elegantly avoids having to deal with it.

I don't know, quoting the calunnia article looks like a threat to me. :twocents:
He [Raffaele] is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque caricature that is “Foxy Knoxy”
~ Amanda Knox
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Re: HIV lie

Postby Helen6 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:27 pm

Thank you Hans and Teddy. It really looks like she was manipulated.
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Re: HIV lie

Postby Teddy » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:09 am

Hans wrote:I don't know, quoting the calunnia article looks like a threat to me. :twocents:

Depends how you read "if it happened, and it seems to me that it didn’t happen, with these intentions, this would be a criminal act ,and this Court…". I read that as saying, he doesn't believe it was done with bad intentions, but if that is the claim, then he'd have to open a case file to investigate it (as he did for Aviello who claimed that the prosecution had coerced him to change his story).
Amanda Knox: "According to Mignini, we found Meredith at the villa and said, Hey, that stupid bitch. Let’s show Meredith. Let’s get her to play a sex game. I was horrified. Who thinks like that?".... indeed, who thinks like that?
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Re: HIV lie

Postby welshman » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:47 pm

As stated in my first post, the haters argue that Amanda was given a HIV test which turned out to be a false positive and Amanda was told later the result was positive. However, was there any evidence presented that an actual test was done? Has any information been provided of the date, time and location of the supposed test. Have any documents been presented which show records of a test being carried out? If there no evidence of an actual test, this demolishes the argument Amanda was simply given the results of false positive test. How common are false positive HIV tests? I remember seeing a documentary on British TV where someone was told they had a positive HIV test which later turned out to be false. If I remember correctly the clinic staff said false positive HIV results are rare.

I feel the HIV is a clear example of the hypocrisy of the haters. The haters constantly accuse Amanda of lying but defend people who lied to Amanda she had HIV. This hypocrisy makes my blood boil.
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Re: HIV lie

Postby Desert Fox » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:27 pm

welshman wrote:As stated in my first post, the haters argue that Amanda was given a HIV test which turned out to be a false positive and Amanda was told later the result was positive. However, was there any evidence presented that an actual test was done? Has any information been provided of the date, time and location of the supposed test. Have any documents been presented which show records of a test being carried out? If there no evidence of an actual test, this demolishes the argument Amanda was simply given the results of false positive test. How common are false positive HIV tests? I remember seeing a documentary on British TV where someone was told they had a positive HIV test which later turned out to be false. If I remember correctly the clinic staff said false positive HIV results are rare.

I feel the HIV is a clear example of the hypocrisy of the haters. The haters constantly accuse Amanda of lying but defend people who lied to Amanda she had HIV. This hypocrisy makes my blood boil.


The demeanor of the test was all wrong. . . . They will not tell you that you have HIV but that you showed positive for the test but we need to perform further test. They will usually also tell you not to be too alarmed yet.
In some cases, they may not even tell you about a first false positive but instead wait until they do a Western Blot test before telling the patient.
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Re: HIV lie

Postby Helen6 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:39 am

welshman wrote: However, was there any evidence presented that an actual test was done? Has any information been provided of the date, time and location of the supposed test. Have any documents been presented which show records of a test being carried out?


If no evidence was presented that the test was actually done, and was indeed a false positive, also date etc, it is to the least very suspicious.
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Re: HIV lie

Postby welshman » Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:09 pm

Can you imagine the reaction on the TJMK/PMF hate sites if Amanda lied to somone they had HIV.
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Re: HIV lie

Postby pmop57 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:41 am

welshman wrote:Can you imagine the reaction on the TJMK/PMF hate sites if Amanda lied to somone they had HIV.


Why else should she have dressed a list of her partners and why should this list make it's way into the public?

And, what are the general procedures prescribing a medical test/analyses/investigation to be performed on a new inmate in prison? What are the medical tests to be performed, is a HIV test part of these tests?
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Re: HIV lie

Postby welshman » Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:53 am

pmop57 wrote:
welshman wrote:Can you imagine the reaction on the TJMK/PMF hate sites if Amanda lied to somone they had HIV.


Why else should she have dressed a list of her partners and why should this list make it's way into the public?

And, what are the general procedures prescribing a medical test/analyses/investigation to be performed on a new inmate in prison? What are the medical tests to be performed, is a HIV test part of these tests?


The basic scenario we have here is that Amanda was lied to that a positive HIV test was done on her. Amanda writes a list of her sexual partners which is the normal thing to do when you have been diagnosed with an STD so that previous sexual partners can be informed. The police leak the list of sexual partners to the media and lie saying that the list of partners is of the partners she had when in Italy when in realy this was a list of all her sexual partners she had in her life. Leaking the list is designed to give the impression Amanda is a sex maniac and is used to attack Amanda's character. If the prosecution had a slam dunk case and a mountain of hard evidence, why would they need to resort to this tactic?
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Re: HIV lie

Postby pmop57 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:23 am

The problem is that leaking information of incarcerated suspects seems to be the general rule and not the exception. The fact of leaking information seems to be generally accepted by the Italian Judiciary. The principle of innocence until proven guilty is simply ignored and not respected. As soon as a suspect is in custody he is exposed to the arbitrariness of the State servants and leaking of information seems to be tacitly approved by the law enforcement members. The suspect is simply denied all rights to privacy, in my opinion a violation of the human rights and a violation of the obligation of the State to protect the rights of the incarcerated suspects.
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