John Kercher's book - Meredith

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Re: Where is Kercher getting his "legal advice"?

Postby B_Real » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:00 am

Has anyone bought it today? It's out on Kindle.

Chapter headings are:
    Foreword
    Meredith's Murder
    Our Beautiful Girl
    University
    The Investigation
    The Funeral
    The Suspects
    The Trial
    The Verdict
    The Appeal
    Our Hope for Justice
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Re: Where is Kercher getting his "legal advice"?

Postby Flipp » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:50 am

B_Real wrote:Has anyone bought it today? It's out on Kindle.

Chapter headings are:
    Foreword
    Meredith's Murder
    Our Beautiful Girl
    University
    The Investigation
    The Funeral
    The Suspects
    The Trial
    The Verdict
    The Appeal
    Our Hope for Justice

Yep, I decided to buy the Kindle version. Going to start reading it today. :find:
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Re: John Kercher Daily Mail Book Series

Postby MichaelB » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:12 am

http://www.myfoxny.com/story/17769822/m ... h-in-italy

John Kercher told the Times he could not believe that Guede was his daughter's sole killer.

"One person could not have done it," he said. "She had 47 bruises. Two different knives were meant to have been used. Meredith did karate, for goodness' sake."

If more than one person was involved and Knox and Sollecito are innocent, "why is there not evidence of these other people?" Kercher asks.

"As we have always said, we would never want innocent people put in prison. But when you're presented with that whole body of evidence, by forensic investigators, and it is just overturned, without question -- without question -- it is very difficult."


This is just malicious properganda
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Re: Where is Kercher getting his "legal advice"?

Postby MichaelB » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:36 am

Flipp wrote:
B_Real wrote:Has anyone bought it today? It's out on Kindle.

Chapter headings are:
    Foreword
    Meredith's Murder
    Our Beautiful Girl
    University
    The Investigation
    The Funeral
    The Suspects
    The Trial
    The Verdict
    The Appeal
    Our Hope for Justice

Yep, I decided to buy the Kindle version. Going to start reading it today. :find:


Post a review here if you can....
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Re: John Kercher Daily Mail Book Series

Postby Jstanz » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:44 am

Murdoch wrote:http://www.myfoxny.com/story/17769822/meredith-kerchers-grieving-father-laments-evaporated-truth-about-her-death-in-italy

John Kercher told the Times he could not believe that Guede was his daughter's sole killer.

"One person could not have done it," he said. "She had 47 bruises. Two different knives were meant to have been used. Meredith did karate, for goodness' sake."

If more than one person was involved and Knox and Sollecito are innocent, "why is there not evidence of these other people?" Kercher asks.

"As we have always said, we would never want innocent people put in prison. But when you're presented with that whole body of evidence, by forensic investigators, and it is just overturned, without question -- without question -- it is very difficult."


This is just malicious properganda


"If more than one person was involved and Knox and Sollecito are innocent, "why is there not evidence of these other people?" Kercher asks."

For the same reason there is not evidence of Knox and Sollecito. Because there were no other people at all. Only Rudy.
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Re: John Kercher Daily Mail Book Series

Postby B_Real » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:03 am

Jstanz wrote:
Murdoch wrote:http://www.myfoxny.com/story/17769822/meredith-kerchers-grieving-father-laments-evaporated-truth-about-her-death-in-italy

John Kercher told the Times he could not believe that Guede was his daughter's sole killer.

"One person could not have done it," he said. "She had 47 bruises. Two different knives were meant to have been used. Meredith did karate, for goodness' sake."

If more than one person was involved and Knox and Sollecito are innocent, "why is there not evidence of these other people?" Kercher asks.

"As we have always said, we would never want innocent people put in prison. But when you're presented with that whole body of evidence, by forensic investigators, and it is just overturned, without question -- without question -- it is very difficult."


This is just malicious properganda


"If more than one person was involved and Knox and Sollecito are innocent, "why is there not evidence of these other people?" Kercher asks."

For the same reason there is not evidence of Knox and Sollecito. Because there were no other people at all. Only Rudy.


Does he seriously think women win physical fights against much larger men? I'm afraid this is just delusional.
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Re: John Kercher Daily Mail Book Series

Postby Jstanz » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:45 am

Did he seriously think those few Karate lessons were going to make her invincible?
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Re: John Kercher Daily Mail Book Series

Postby MichaelB » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:46 am

Here is another in the news.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-n ... 6336629024

Mr Byrne said he was disappointed the program allegedly had lied to him when he contacted them about a month ago and asked if they were planning to interview the man whose conviction for murdering his daughter, Caroline Byrne, was overturned in February.

"I can only label their actions unconscionable," Mr Byrne, 76, said.

The current affairs program yesterday declined to say how much had been paid to Mr Wood for an interview due to air next Sunday night but industry sources told The Daily Telegraph it was "at least" $200,000.

Mr Wood, 47, spent more than three years in jail after being convicted of throwing his girlfriend Ms Byrne, 24, off The Gap at Watsons Bay in June 1995.

Within days of being granted his freedom by the Court of Criminal Appeal in February, he revealed he was considering a TV offer of $200,000 as well as lucrative book deals.


So it's not unusual what JK is doing except in this case, Tony Byrne is trying to bypass the legal system and launch his own appeal as if he is the law
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Re: John Kercher Daily Mail Book Series

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:02 am

Murdoch wrote:So it's not unusual what JK is doing except in this case, Tony Byrne is trying to bypass the legal system and launch his own appeal as if he is the law

This is what the State is supposed to be protecting ALL of us from, the victim, the victim's family, the accused (justly or unjustly).

When the State fails (and in Perugia it failed miserably) this is what happens, and there are new weapons in the media age. If the Daily Mail can make a buck out of John Kercher's crusade, guess what will happen?

Kercher is a pawn.
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Re: Where is Kercher getting his "legal advice"?

Postby erasmus44 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:20 am

Flipp wrote:
B_Real wrote:Has anyone bought it today? It's out on Kindle.

Chapter headings are:
    Foreword
    Meredith's Murder
    Our Beautiful Girl
    University
    The Investigation
    The Funeral
    The Suspects
    The Trial
    The Verdict
    The Appeal
    Our Hope for Justice

Yep, I decided to buy the Kindle version. Going to start reading it today. :find:


He has complained repeatedly that all the attention has been focused on Amanda and everyone has forgotten about Meredith but then he writes a book entitled "Meredith" which appears to devote four fifths of its length to the investigation and prosecution of people for her murder after she was dead rather than to her life.
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Re: Where is Kercher getting his "legal advice"?

Postby B_Real » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:24 am

erasmus44 wrote:
Flipp wrote:
B_Real wrote:Has anyone bought it today? It's out on Kindle.

Chapter headings are:
    Foreword
    Meredith's Murder
    Our Beautiful Girl
    University
    The Investigation
    The Funeral
    The Suspects
    The Trial
    The Verdict
    The Appeal
    Our Hope for Justice

Yep, I decided to buy the Kindle version. Going to start reading it today. :find:


He has complained repeatedly that all the attention has been focused on Amanda and everyone has forgotten about Meredith but then he writes a book entitled "Meredith" which appears to devote four fifths of its length to the investigation and prosecution of people for her murder after she was dead rather than to her life.


I noticed the same thing. How much of this actually is about Meredith?
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Re: Where is Kercher getting his "legal advice"?

Postby MustBeQuantum » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:49 am

B_Real wrote:
erasmus44 wrote:
Flipp wrote:
B_Real wrote:Has anyone bought it today? It's out on Kindle.

Chapter headings are:
    Foreword
    Meredith's Murder
    Our Beautiful Girl
    University
    The Investigation
    The Funeral
    The Suspects
    The Trial
    The Verdict
    The Appeal
    Our Hope for Justice

Yep, I decided to buy the Kindle version. Going to start reading it today. :find:


He has complained repeatedly that all the attention has been focused on Amanda and everyone has forgotten about Meredith but then he writes a book entitled "Meredith" which appears to devote four fifths of its length to the investigation and prosecution of people for her murder after she was dead rather than to her life.


I noticed the same thing. How much of this actually is about Meredith?


Sadly, I think old Johnny K was one of the main creators of the mythological being charged with killing his daughter. Hard to give up on a mythology, especially one so carefully crafted and bought wholesale by the credulous.

That would really be my primary interest in his book -- his own actions to create some kind of fantasy and how he sold it like a pop band.
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Re: Where is Kercher getting his "legal advice"?

Postby Flipp » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:00 am

Murdoch wrote:
Flipp wrote:
B_Real wrote:Has anyone bought it today? It's out on Kindle.

Chapter headings are:
    Foreword
    Meredith's Murder
    Our Beautiful Girl
    University
    The Investigation
    The Funeral
    The Suspects
    The Trial
    The Verdict
    The Appeal
    Our Hope for Justice

Yep, I decided to buy the Kindle version. Going to start reading it today. :find:


Post a review here if you can....

Ok, I will post some thoughts over the weekend.
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John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Sarah » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:51 am

The book has been released today. Let the reviews roll in.

I'll move some posts over from the Daily Mail article thread.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Clive Wismayer » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:04 am

Well, I just bought it.
Sample 36B: not blood, not human and not a sample (no cytology!!). Sample 36I: Amanda's LCN profile, ergo the knife is the murder weapon. :boggled:
When do we get the fibre analysis results?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Sarah » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:05 am

Here's a quote from the book:

"Throughout all of this, the True Justice for Meredith Kercher website was a vital resource, and one without which it would have been difficult for us to appreciate fully the case that unfolded around Meredith’s murder. For several years the lawyers running the website – without any motivation other than a desire to see true justice done – published daily updates of what was happening in Italy and America. The teams of lawyers in both countries who gave their time for nothing to prepare translations of reports have helped us more than words can say."
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Graeme » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:29 am

Sarah wrote:Here's a quote from the book:

"Throughout all of this, the True Justice for Meredith Kercher website was a vital resource, and one without which it would have been difficult for us to appreciate fully the case that unfolded around Meredith’s murder. For several years the lawyers running the website – without any motivation other than a desire to see true justice done – published daily updates of what was happening in Italy and America. The teams of lawyers in both countries who gave their time for nothing to prepare translations of reports have helped us more than words can say."


Oh dear. I bet some people around here are right!
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby B_Real » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:31 am

Graeme wrote:
Sarah wrote:Here's a quote from the book:

"Throughout all of this, the True Justice for Meredith Kercher website was a vital resource, and one without which it would have been difficult for us to appreciate fully the case that unfolded around Meredith’s murder. For several years the lawyers running the website – without any motivation other than a desire to see true justice done – published daily updates of what was happening in Italy and America. The teams of lawyers in both countries who gave their time for nothing to prepare translations of reports have helped us more than words can say."


Oh dear. I bet some people around here are right!


Indeed. It looks that way.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Clive Wismayer » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:43 am

OK I started with chapter 8 (verdict). This is from a PGP POV without much doubt. The trial is a fair process and Mignini's crime theory is parroted without any comment or criticism.

I have started chapter 9 (appeal) and the themes are familiar:

1 he rejects allegations of anti-americanism
2 public reaction and controversy about the convictions are seen as distracting attention from Meredith
3 he doubts the American public were getting a fair picture of the case (I searched the word 'bleach' to see whether, for balance, he mentions the untruthful press stories about bleach being purchased a Cardo but found that he just repeats the prosecution case uncritically, similarly with the bload soaked bathroom photograph)

More anon.
Sample 36B: not blood, not human and not a sample (no cytology!!). Sample 36I: Amanda's LCN profile, ergo the knife is the murder weapon. :boggled:
When do we get the fibre analysis results?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby erasmus44 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:05 am

Sarah wrote:Here's a quote from the book:

"Throughout all of this, the True Justice for Meredith Kercher website was a vital resource, and one without which it would have been difficult for us to appreciate fully the case that unfolded around Meredith’s murder. For several years the lawyers running the website – without any motivation other than a desire to see true justice done – published daily updates of what was happening in Italy and America. The teams of lawyers in both countries who gave their time for nothing to prepare translations of reports have helped us more than words can say."


The reference to "lawyers running the website" is interesting. I didn't think Quennell was a lawyer. Also "teams of lawyers in both countries" suggests that Maresca and the prosecutors were likely involved. Does he mention either of the PMF sites? If he doesn't, I would guess that they will get annoyed. The problem is that if he mentions one and not the other, the one not mentioned will get really seriously teed off and if he mentions both, then he will have to explain the rift between the two, and the whole narrative will begin to disappear down the rabbit hole of obvious paranoia and delusional rivalry.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:17 am

Sarah wrote:Here's a quote from the book:

"Throughout all of this, the True Justice for Meredith Kercher website was a vital resource, and one without which it would have been difficult for us to appreciate fully the case that unfolded around Meredith’s murder. For several years the lawyers running the website – without any motivation other than a desire to see true justice done – published daily updates of what was happening in Italy and America. The teams of lawyers in both countries who gave their time for nothing to prepare translations of reports have helped us more than words can say."

On the face of it, this comment of Kercher's is absolutely correct. There are some things on the TJMK site that are indispensible for understanding the cases against the various people who've been accused.

For instance, the ONLY extant copy of the CNN interview with Mignini that I can find is on TJMK. Mignini's first person account of what happened at Knox's 5th/6th interrogation is key to understanding the lies he, himself, tells.

However, if what Kercher implies is also true, then it is no wonder that the TJMK site makes NO analysis at all of the conduct of the prosecution or the cops. None of the lawyers for the prosecution see themselves as actors in this drama - they see themselves as simply passing on unbiased facts: perhaps like we all like to think of ourselves.

But it is revealing for me to have Kercher reveal/imply that the TJMK has no agenda other than justice, and TRUE justice at that... it is not bad to have an agenda, but it would be nice to have that agenda stated up front for transparency's sake.

Is the agenda, "True Justice for Meredith Kercher"? Well, if you are a prosecution lawyer who sees yourself as unbiased, then you might want to call it that. (As an aside: why call it "True Justice"? Why the "True" esp. if this was opened before the acquital? I always get skeptical about additional words - I'm a conspiratorial sort...)

Kercher's book is more revealing about stuff than he knows. I am thankful for that.

Yet, this was supposed to be a book about Meredith. If she's the forgotten one here, I'd like to hear more about her. Not about long since debunked theories of how his daughter met her unjust demise.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby erasmus44 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:25 pm

Apparently in an interview with Lucy Bannerman of the London Times, when asked what happened at the cottage that night John Kercher says, "No idea." and when asked flat out whether Amanda is guilty he say "Guess." How can you ask the courts to find them guilty beyond any reasonable doubt, when, after being spoon fed the prosecution party line and TJMK drivel for more than 4 years , you still have this level of uncertainty?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby B_Real » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:53 pm

erasmus44 wrote:Apparently in an interview with Lucy Bannerman of the London Times, when asked what happened at the cottage that night John Kercher says, "No idea." and when asked flat out whether Amanda is guilty he say "Guess." How can you ask the courts to find them guilty beyond any reasonable doubt, when, after being spoon fed the prosecution party line and TJMK drivel for more than 4 years , you still have this level of uncertainty?


I don't think i'll buy his book now. I'm sure anglo and others will give good summaries.

This stuff from him is just becoming a bit unhinged.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Clive Wismayer » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:01 pm

B_Real wrote:
erasmus44 wrote:Apparently in an interview with Lucy Bannerman of the London Times, when asked what happened at the cottage that night John Kercher says, "No idea." and when asked flat out whether Amanda is guilty he say "Guess." How can you ask the courts to find them guilty beyond any reasonable doubt, when, after being spoon fed the prosecution party line and TJMK drivel for more than 4 years , you still have this level of uncertainty?


I don't think i'll buy his book now. I'm sure anglo and others will give good summaries.

This stuff from him is just becoming a bit unhinged.

There is nothing in it (chapters 8 and 9) you would not have predicted. My notes on chapter 9 (appeal), so far,

He thinks it meaningful there were 10,000 pages of evidence.   He believes the forensic evidence about footprints in blood, mixed DNA etc.   He regards it as settled there was more than one attacker.

Massei's report was impressive and enlightening (and 400 pages long).

Something I didn't know is that Meredith would speak with her father as she walked home, as she was troubled by the drug addicts.

Btw. I am not annotating the whole book just noting things here and there which stand out. The fact he clearly believes the number of pages of evidence or of Massei's judgment to be significant shows the level at which he understands the case, which is not high. He is not to be blamed for that. It must be extremely difficult to look as closely at the facts as we have. The last point I find very touching.
Sample 36B: not blood, not human and not a sample (no cytology!!). Sample 36I: Amanda's LCN profile, ergo the knife is the murder weapon. :boggled:
When do we get the fibre analysis results?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Dougm » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:21 pm

I think that if the book parrots the prosecution's theory, and says what a positive source TJMK and/or PMF are, he will, unfortunately, completely discredit himself. Father of the victim or not, we have seen that, when held up to honest scrutiny, both the guilter sites and the prosecution's theories of the case are contradictory to the true facts. I could see it if he would write something like he can't understand what the truth is, since all these people think Amanda and Raff are guilty, or even that he might see the FOA and IIP as enemies. But given that many people (it seems the majority) are convinced that the case was a frame up and that Amanda and Raffaele were unjustly accused, anyone these days who still talks about all the discredited evidence does not come off very credible. Even if he is who he is.

The truth is the truth. He can write 5 books talking about what a great thing TJMK is, but then people go and read it, and they will say, WTF is he talking about?
When you berate someone and push them and confuse them and lie to them and convince them that they're wrong you're not finding the truth.

Amanda Knox
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby roteoctober » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:43 pm

Sarah wrote:Here's a quote from the book:

"Throughout all of this, the True Justice for Meredith Kercher website was a vital resource, and one without which it would have been difficult for us to appreciate fully the case that unfolded around Meredith’s murder. For several years the lawyers running the website – without any motivation other than a desire to see true justice done – published daily updates of what was happening in Italy and America. The teams of lawyers in both countries who gave their time for nothing to prepare translations of reports have helped us more than words can say."


I prefer not to comment about that...fifth amendment...

I'll tell you something else.

This evening in the dinner time news hour of the main Italian TV channel there was a report concerning the book, very neutral apparently.

It said:

1) JK wants to tell the story before Amanda's book;

2) the book is a celebration of the life of Meredith;

3) JK complains against those (unspecified) who haven't been able to give him truth;

4) "JK, a writer and a journalist, unlike the other members of the family, was never present at the trial".

Now, being a TV report it can be quite inaccurate, so maybe points 3) and 4) are incorrect, but the point is that to Italian ears point 4) can sound like some sort of implicit mild criticism (and those were the final words of the report).

Amanda was quoted just in reference to her upcoming book and of course because she has been first convicted and then acquitted of the murder (no reference was made to the recourse to the SC) but with very neutral, matter of fact words, no innuendos, nothing...the music seems to have changed in Italy.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:43 pm

Dougm wrote:The truth is the truth. He can write 5 books talking about what a great thing TJMK is, but then people go and read it, and they will say, WTF is he talking about?

This is why the problem is not "John Kercher".

The few times I've convinced people that I am not a nutcase for posting as much as I have, and convinced them to even look at the TJMK and PMF sites - to look at Kermit's powerpoints, that sort of thing - the universal (well - three) comment back was, "Why do you bother even looking at those kooky sites?"

I had no answer. No it is me who looks kooky for even asking them to click on those sites whgen they were alone at night in front of their computers....

There is a reason why the law has elevated this mythical "reasonable person" to a position of standing before the court. This person will take a look at TJMK particularly and feel slimed by a creepy guy, Peter Quennell.... and if the friggin' father of the victim is promoting the site....

.... this "reasonable person" will be filled with pity towards the poor father. He must be a tortured soul.... and he's pointing to a creep like Quennell for solice?

That is just sad. Creepily sad.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:46 pm

roteoctober wrote:Amanda was quoted just in reference to her upcoming book and of course because she has been first convicted and then acquitted of the murder (no reference was made to the recourse to the SC) but with very neutral, matter of fact words, no innuendos, nothing...the music seems to have changed in Italy.

Those last eight words prove that there is a God. <settle down, it's just a turn of phrase!>
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby B_Real » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:54 pm

Bill Williams wrote:
.... this "reasonable person" will be filled with pity towards the poor father. He must be a tortured soul.... and he's pointing to a creep like Quennell for solice?

That is just sad. Creepily sad.


Well yes. It's really not good to direct the general public to Quennell's site. not good at all.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Sarah » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:58 pm

TJMK posted more of the Lucy Bannerman interview:


1. On First Impressions

I had never cried during an interview, until I met John Kercher. He presses a polite kiss to the cheek when we meet, smiling as he shakes my hand, before quickly apologising for wincing in pain.

His back has been giving him trouble — he thinks he might have put it out when he sneezed. Still, his manner is warm and engaging and, despite having suffered a stroke three years ago, there is only a slight hint of unsteadiness as we pick a table and order some drinks in the bland lounge of a Croydon hotel.


2. On Rudy Guede Plus… Who?

Rudy Guede, the Ivorian drifter who is the only one who admits being at the scene, and whose murder conviction still stands, is in jail, having had his sentence reduced to only 16 years in a fast-track trial.

Today, Mr Kercher refuses to believe that Guede was the sole killer.

“One person could not have done it.” Of that much, he is certain. “She had 47 bruises. Two different knives were meant to have been used. Meredith did karate, for goodness’ sake.”

Remove Knox and Sollecito, and the only theory left is that Guede was helped by other, as-yet-unknown, accomplices. Which leaves Mr Kercher with even more questions.

“Then why is there not evidence of these other people?” he asks.

The past six months have passed in limbo. He has used the time to write a book that is, in one sense, his attempt to lay out the vast and tangled body of evidence, detailed in 10,000 pages in the original trial, which was overturned by an appeal judge last October.

“As we have always said, we would never want innocent people put in prison. But when you’re presented with that whole body of evidence, by forensic investigators, and it is just overturned, without question — without question — it is very difficult.”


3.. On Why John Was Inspired To Write

Ultimately the book is a heartbroken father’s tribute to his daughter. She sparkles through the pages, thanks to anecdotes from friends and family, first loves and flatmates; from the teachers who taught her and even the boy who once proposed. It is instantly clear, and not at all surprising, that Meredith was never short of admirers.

Her father was encouraged to write the book, not just by those who loved the 21-year-old student, but also by strangers.

“I looked on the internet and saw there were so many people saying, ‘We love her smile, she seemed like such a beautiful person, but we don’t really know anything about her’.

“So, I wanted to give people a flavour of what she was like, of her witty one-liners, her kindness.”

He remembers the baby girl who, though not premature, was born at just 4lbs 12oz — “she was so small I could practically hold her in one hand” — and the teenager with appalling time-keeping.

He talks fondly of the London bus tour guide, whose tours would always end with a top deck of applause, and the girl who first fell in love with Italy on a school exchange.

“Her teacher told me how, at the end of the exchange, all the other girls were crying on the coach as they said goodbye, except Meredith, who had a big smile on her face. She said she wasn’t upset, because she knew she was going to come back and live here.”


4. On The Hellman Court Not Examing All Evidence

A lack of motive and unreliable forensic evidence led to Knox and Sollecito being cleared by a jury. Much of the case centred on disputed DNA evidence on a kitchen knife and a clasp from Meredith’s bloodied bra.

“That DNA evidence was rejected, but what about all the rest of it?” asks Mr Kercher, for whom so many questions remain unanswered.

“Knox and Sollecito changed their alibi, I think, nine times.”

He does not agree that someone broke into the cottage, as the defence claimed. He believes it was staged. “How could one judge turn around and say the break-in wasn’t staged, when another judge spent eight pages in his original report explaining that it was?

“It doesn’t make sense.”

What does he think happened?

“No idea,” he replies, flatly.

Does he believe Amanda Knox killed Meredith?

He sighs. “Look into my eyes.”

They are full of tears.

“Guess. I don’t want to be vindictive. All I know is that there’s no other evidence of any other people being in that flat at that time.”


5. On Those Profiteering From Meredith’s Death

One thing he makes plain: the Kerchers have never profited from their daughter’s murder. He is disgusted by those who have.

They have turned down countless lucrative media offers.

Any proceeds from the book will go to a foundation they are setting up in Meredith’s name. They are considering whether it might support bereaved relatives who find themselves, like they did, embroiled in financially draining legal procedures overseas.


6. On How Family Life Carries On

He split from Meredith’s mother, Arline, ten years before the murder, and lives on his own in a flat five miles from the former family home. Kidney problems mean that Arline must rely on dialysis three times a week. She and John are on amicable terms.

Meredith’s eldest brother, also John, works in electronics, and is father to his own family. Her other brother, Lyle, works in advertising, while Stephanie, the beautiful sister she so closely resembles, has a career in marketing.

He is not a religious man, Kercher says. But over the past few years he has taken great comfort in what he calls “the white feather phenomenon”.

“I had never heard of it before. But it’s meant to represent the deceased person. It first happened when Stephanie and I were sitting in the garden one summer, and an absolutely white feather landed between us. I looked up. There was not a bird in the sky.”

It happened again after meeting up with a friend of Meredith’s while he was collecting anecdotes for the book.

“We were just saying goodbye in South Kensington when a white feather floated down and landed on her hand. It was really weird. It was so perfect. I actually waited another 10, 12 minutes, after the girl had gone, looking up at the sky.” He laughs at himself for being so superstitious.

“I often look at photographs and say to her, ‘send me a white feather’.”


7. On John’s Continuing Journalist Career

Mr Kercher still works as a freelance journalist. Despite all the heartache, he remains good company, apparently enjoying talking about life as a journalist, sharing anecdotes about the famous people he has interviewed and the book of quotations he has compiled.

“Do you ever get lonely?” he asks, suddenly. The question seems to hang uncomfortably for a moment, before we move on to happier topics, such as the nine times that he ran the London Marathon, his love of jazz and the 70th birthday he will be celebrating later this year.

As the interview draws to a close, he says he has no plans for the rest of the day but to keep writing. “You work to occupy the mind.

“You just carry on. You can’t do anything. You have no influence over events. It’s very difficult.”
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby erasmus44 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:59 pm

I wonder if he really read Massei all the way through (tough sledding). One of the things that surprised me the most when I got interested in the case was the passage in Massei about multiple or single perps - p. 369 - "The consultants and forensic scientists have asserted that from the point of view of forensic science it cannot be ruled out that the author of the injuries could have been a single attacker.....there are no scientific elements arising directly from forensic science which could rule out the injuries having been caused by a single attacker...."
This passage from MASSEI really floored me at the time. In fairness, Massei goes on to conclude that other factors (Meredith's martial arts skills) lead to the conclusion that there must have been multiple attackers. But his conclusion about the result of the forensic analysis really surprised me. And of course on the martial arts issue Massei is not exactly an expert on whether Rampage Jackson could take Gina Carano alone or would need two other people to help him out - is he?
I don't know whether John Kercher actually read this through carefully or whether he just bought the Mignini Massei party line, but the forensic experts seem to agree that a single attacker is perfectly consistent with the actual evidence as opposed to Massei's expertise at handicapping MMA contests.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Sarah » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:05 pm

No peace for John Kercher, Amanda Knox and Meredith Kercher – murder brought to book

http://www.anorak.co.uk/320446/news/no- ... book.html/
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Clive Wismayer » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:35 pm

erasmus44 wrote:I wonder if he really read Massei all the way through (tough sledding). One of the things that surprised me the most when I got interested in the case was the passage in Massei about multiple or single perps - p. 369 - "The consultants and forensic scientists have asserted that from the point of view of forensic science it cannot be ruled out that the author of the injuries could have been a single attacker.....there are no scientific elements arising directly from forensic science which could rule out the injuries having been caused by a single attacker...."
This passage from MASSEI really floored me at the time. In fairness, Massei goes on to conclude that other factors (Meredith's martial arts skills) lead to the conclusion that there must have been multiple attackers. But his conclusion about the result of the forensic analysis really surprised me. And of course on the martial arts issue Massei is not exactly an expert on whether Rampage Jackson could take Gina Carano alone or would need two other people to help him out - is he?
I don't know whether John Kercher actually read this through carefully or whether he just bought the Mignini Massei party line, but the forensic experts seem to agree that a single attacker is perfectly consistent with the actual evidence as opposed to Massei's expertise at handicapping MMA contests.

I also noted that Erasmus, yet JK cites the 47 wounds, 2 knives and the karate as the reasons why there must have been more than one attacker. This man could not bring himself to identify his murdered daughter. It is consistent that he may not have been able to look at the facts of the case too closely. I make no claim that I would have been braver in his place.
Sample 36B: not blood, not human and not a sample (no cytology!!). Sample 36I: Amanda's LCN profile, ergo the knife is the murder weapon. :boggled:
When do we get the fibre analysis results?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Hans » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:01 pm

I have to break a lance for Mr Kercher. (I'm not qualified to do a review, anyway, but the word I'd want to use, after reading "Meredith" is "mislead"... :((: :Asche auf mein Haupt:
He [Raffaele] is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque caricature that is “Foxy Knoxy”
~ Amanda Knox
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:27 pm

Sarah wrote:No peace for John Kercher, Amanda Knox and Meredith Kercher – murder brought to book

http://www.anorak.co.uk/320446/news/no- ... book.html/

A great piece. Incisive.

Couldn't help but note an ad at the bottom of another piece, from The Daily Beast: "A Brazilian Man and Two Women Are Accused of Murder and Cannibalism." I couldn't risk clicking on the link, just in case it was yet another insightful piece by Barbie Nadeau....
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:30 pm

erasmus44 wrote:I wonder if he really read Massei all the way through (tough sledding). One of the things that surprised me the most when I got interested in the case was the passage in Massei about multiple or single perps - p. 369 - "The consultants and forensic scientists have asserted that from the point of view of forensic science it cannot be ruled out that the author of the injuries could have been a single attacker.....there are no scientific elements arising directly from forensic science which could rule out the injuries having been caused by a single attacker...."
This passage from MASSEI really floored me at the time. In fairness, Massei goes on to conclude that other factors (Meredith's martial arts skills) lead to the conclusion that there must have been multiple attackers. But his conclusion about the result of the forensic analysis really surprised me. And of course on the martial arts issue Massei is not exactly an expert on whether Rampage Jackson could take Gina Carano alone or would need two other people to help him out - is he?
I don't know whether John Kercher actually read this through carefully or whether he just bought the Mignini Massei party line, but the forensic experts seem to agree that a single attacker is perfectly consistent with the actual evidence as opposed to Massei's expertise at handicapping MMA contests.

I am playing my broken record, because this is yet another example of why....

..... NO ONE believes the Massei Motivation's report anymore. Not guilters. Not innocentatii.... and apparently now not John Kercher.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby erasmus44 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:03 pm

In the book, does JK take any position on whether he thinks RG got a reasonable sentence? He seems to be surprised that RG hasn't broken down and implicated AK and RS in more explicit terms and so perhaps his lawyer told him that if RG got a light sentence, RG would provide further testimony implicating AK and RS. I still think that there is a complex game going on behind the scenes among Mignini, Maresca, and RG's lawyer. I suspect that they got together and persuaded the Kerchers not to oppose the lenient sentence for RG with an explicit or implied assurance of some further testimony from RG.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby MichaelB » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:31 pm

Is there anything in the book about the Knox/Mellas/Sollecito familes or his opinion of any journalists?

What about Mignini? How was he communicating with Maresca?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby MichaelB » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:46 pm

Cristina Magnani
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:05 pm

Murdoch wrote:http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/26/meredith-kercher-s-father-on-our-daughter-s-murder.html

Is this Barbie Nadeau writing? She describes Kerching writing about the "quirky evidence" that resulted in conviction.....
Nadeau wrote:...when it comes to the evidentiary facts of the case. He knows them well, from the moribund details of the forensics to the quirky nature of much of the circumstantial evidence that initially convicted Knox and her former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, before the appeal.

But then there's this....
Nadeau wrote: ....and how the American press and some British outlets embraced Knox’s claims of innocence during the appeal, sacrificing Meredith’s memory in the process. Meredith’s name, he points out, was frequently left out of news stories, which became more and more focused on Knox during the appellate process. For the Kercher family, which had just begun their closure with the guilty verdicts, the process of retrying the case and reliving those painful details of their daughter’s murder all over again in the appeal was almost too much to bear.

Aside from the fact that was at issue at the appeal WAS whether or not the conviction was deserved.... and why Meredith's name SHOULD dominate that process is a bit of a stretch....

And aside from the fact that this is dangerously close to Nadeau's meme that the PR Supertanker somehow infiltrated the legal process.....

This is perhaps 60% good.... as long as it was a confused family wondering, then ok, I get that.

You know, I'm going to give Nadeau this one.

I have a feelings others won't.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Dougm » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:48 pm

Bill Williams wrote:
Murdoch wrote:http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/26/meredith-kercher-s-father-on-our-daughter-s-murder.html

Is this Barbie Nadeau writing? She describes Kerching writing about the "quirky evidence" that resulted in conviction.....
Nadeau wrote:...when it comes to the evidentiary facts of the case. He knows them well, from the moribund details of the forensics to the quirky nature of much of the circumstantial evidence that initially convicted Knox and her former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, before the appeal.

But then there's this....
Nadeau wrote: ....and how the American press and some British outlets embraced Knox’s claims of innocence during the appeal, sacrificing Meredith’s memory in the process. Meredith’s name, he points out, was frequently left out of news stories, which became more and more focused on Knox during the appellate process. For the Kercher family, which had just begun their closure with the guilty verdicts, the process of retrying the case and reliving those painful details of their daughter’s murder all over again in the appeal was almost too much to bear.

Aside from the fact that was at issue at the appeal WAS whether or not the conviction was deserved.... and why Meredith's name SHOULD dominate that process is a bit of a stretch....

And aside from the fact that this is dangerously close to Nadeau's meme that the PR Supertanker somehow infiltrated the legal process.....

This is perhaps 60% good.... as long as it was a confused family wondering, then ok, I get that.

You know, I'm going to give Nadeau this one.

I have a feelings others won't.


Speaking for myself, this article, and the parts of the book I have seen quoted so far, have made me feel sad for the first time since Amanda and Raffaele were released. To see that both JK and Barbie continue to have their heads in the sand (I guess she still wants to know about the "mixed blood"), and still want to cast doubt on two people who the police cannot even prove were anywhere near the cottage at the time, is baffling to me. JK still thinks that Amanda's DNA in her own bathroom is proof she was there at the time of the killing.

And all this while continuing these ongoing thing about Meredith being forgotten, which is false. She is remembered much more than most murder victims, the only thing that is different is that Amanda is well known too. And not of her own choice.

Very disappointing. I think that JK's professed habit of not wanting to face certain details about his daughter's death (which I understand) has carried over into not wanting to face the truth about it as well. I thought the book was going to be about Meredith, not about Amanda.
When you berate someone and push them and confuse them and lie to them and convince them that they're wrong you're not finding the truth.

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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby erasmus44 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:54 pm

Reading Nadeau's piece, I have only one question: Was former boyfriend and rejected suitor "Lloyd" checked out for an alibi?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Clive Wismayer » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:14 pm

erasmus44 wrote:In the book, does JK take any position on whether he thinks RG got a reasonable sentence? He seems to be surprised that RG hasn't broken down and implicated AK and RS in more explicit terms and so perhaps his lawyer told him that if RG got a light sentence, RG would provide further testimony implicating AK and RS. I still think that there is a complex game going on behind the scenes among Mignini, Maresca, and RG's lawyer. I suspect that they got together and persuaded the Kerchers not to oppose the lenient sentence for RG with an explicit or implied assurance of some further testimony from RG.

He is a bit flummoxed when Guede's sentence gets down to 16 years. He doesn't like that. There, he is a victim of Mignini's insane determination to press on against Amanda and Raffaele. I am sure Mignini did a deal with Guede like he probably did with Toto (here's another fix) and Koko (we won't slam your ass in jail).
Sample 36B: not blood, not human and not a sample (no cytology!!). Sample 36I: Amanda's LCN profile, ergo the knife is the murder weapon. :boggled:
When do we get the fibre analysis results?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Clive Wismayer » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:19 pm

Hans wrote:I have to break a lance for Mr Kercher. (I'm not qualified to do a review, anyway, but the word I'd want to use, after reading "Meredith" is "mislead"... :((: :Asche auf mein Haupt:

I am feeling the same way. Given what he believes about the crime, his feelings about the publicity surrounding Amanda are entirely unstandable. I don't see it as a crime to have been duped by Mignini and Maresca. I believe many of us on this board are still unwittingly swallowing Mignini falsehoods actually.
Sample 36B: not blood, not human and not a sample (no cytology!!). Sample 36I: Amanda's LCN profile, ergo the knife is the murder weapon. :boggled:
When do we get the fibre analysis results?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby RoseMontague » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:33 am

anglolawyer wrote:
Hans wrote:I have to break a lance for Mr Kercher. (I'm not qualified to do a review, anyway, but the word I'd want to use, after reading "Meredith" is "mislead"... :((: :Asche auf mein Haupt:

I am feeling the same way. Given what he believes about the crime, his feelings about the publicity surrounding Amanda are entirely unstandable. I don't see it as a crime to have been duped by Mignini and Maresca. I believe many of us on this board are still unwittingly swallowing Mignini falsehoods actually.


At some point in time I agreed with you. We have long passed that point however. What the Kercher family is doing in continuing to actively promote and pursue a case for the guilt of AK and RS is simply wrong.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Clive Wismayer » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:59 am

RoseMontague wrote:
anglolawyer wrote:
Hans wrote:I have to break a lance for Mr Kercher. (I'm not qualified to do a review, anyway, but the word I'd want to use, after reading "Meredith" is "mislead"... :((: :Asche auf mein Haupt:

I am feeling the same way. Given what he believes about the crime, his feelings about the publicity surrounding Amanda are entirely unstandable. I don't see it as a crime to have been duped by Mignini and Maresca. I believe many of us on this board are still unwittingly swallowing Mignini falsehoods actually.


At some point in time I agreed with you. We have long passed that point however. What the Kercher family is doing in continuing to actively promote and pursue a case for the guilt of AK and RS is simply wrong.

Let me ask you then Rose. What time do you think Nara says she heard Meredith scream? And so as not to be all cryptic, like a clever guilter, it wasn't 11.30 nor 10.30 either. Frank tells me those are pure Mignini lies.

I know the power I hold over my clients. I can sieve and sift information to them like you wouldn't believe. I am restrained only by the ethics of my trade from misleading them. Maresca's power over that family is increased by several orders of magnitude by geography, language and legal systems and I have no difficulty at all in understanding how JK and other family members may have been taken in. In the part of the book I have so far read there are frequent references to 'our lawyer explained this' and 'our lawyer explained that'.

If the criticism is that he has wilfully turned away from the truth, it is a rather harsh one, as what you want of him may be beyond what he can stand. His position is reasoned and he has given as much thought as he can to the case. He has been deceived by lies, as I have also been, most certainly, and perhaps you and others too. Unpicking lies coming from such a source is extremely difficult.
Sample 36B: not blood, not human and not a sample (no cytology!!). Sample 36I: Amanda's LCN profile, ergo the knife is the murder weapon. :boggled:
When do we get the fibre analysis results?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby RoseMontague » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:53 am

anglolawyer wrote:
RoseMontague wrote:
anglolawyer wrote:
Hans wrote:I have to break a lance for Mr Kercher. (I'm not qualified to do a review, anyway, but the word I'd want to use, after reading "Meredith" is "mislead"... :((: :Asche auf mein Haupt:

I am feeling the same way. Given what he believes about the crime, his feelings about the publicity surrounding Amanda are entirely unstandable. I don't see it as a crime to have been duped by Mignini and Maresca. I believe many of us on this board are still unwittingly swallowing Mignini falsehoods actually.


At some point in time I agreed with you. We have long passed that point however. What the Kercher family is doing in continuing to actively promote and pursue a case for the guilt of AK and RS is simply wrong.

Let me ask you then Rose. What time do you think Nara says she heard Meredith scream? And so as not to be all cryptic, like a clever guilter, it wasn't 11.30 nor 10.30 either. Frank tells me those are pure Mignini lies.

I know the power I hold over my clients. I can sieve and sift information to them like you wouldn't believe. I am restrained only by the ethics of my trade from misleading them. Maresca's power over that family is increased by several orders of magnitude by geography, language and legal systems and I have no difficulty at all in understanding how JK and other family members may have been taken in. In the part of the book I have so far read there are frequent references to 'our lawyer explained this' and 'our lawyer explained that'.

If the criticism is that he has wilfully turned away from the truth, it is a rather harsh one, as what you want of him may be beyond what he can stand. His position is reasoned and he has given as much thought as he can to the case. He has been deceived by lies, as I have also been, most certainly, and perhaps you and others too. Unpicking lies coming from such a source is extremely difficult.


I believe there are indications with some of her early comments and preliminary testimony that she may have been woken up by the sound of a car slamming on brakes. The scream from Hell is an exaggeration that only showed up during the actual trial testimony (going by memory).
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Clive Wismayer » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:59 am

RoseMontague wrote:
anglolawyer wrote:
RoseMontague wrote:
anglolawyer wrote:
Hans wrote:I have to break a lance for Mr Kercher. (I'm not qualified to do a review, anyway, but the word I'd want to use, after reading "Meredith" is "mislead"... :((: :Asche auf mein Haupt:

I am feeling the same way. Given what he believes about the crime, his feelings about the publicity surrounding Amanda are entirely unstandable. I don't see it as a crime to have been duped by Mignini and Maresca. I believe many of us on this board are still unwittingly swallowing Mignini falsehoods actually.


At some point in time I agreed with you. We have long passed that point however. What the Kercher family is doing in continuing to actively promote and pursue a case for the guilt of AK and RS is simply wrong.

Let me ask you then Rose. What time do you think Nara says she heard Meredith scream? And so as not to be all cryptic, like a clever guilter, it wasn't 11.30 nor 10.30 either. Frank tells me those are pure Mignini lies.

I know the power I hold over my clients. I can sieve and sift information to them like you wouldn't believe. I am restrained only by the ethics of my trade from misleading them. Maresca's power over that family is increased by several orders of magnitude by geography, language and legal systems and I have no difficulty at all in understanding how JK and other family members may have been taken in. In the part of the book I have so far read there are frequent references to 'our lawyer explained this' and 'our lawyer explained that'.

If the criticism is that he has wilfully turned away from the truth, it is a rather harsh one, as what you want of him may be beyond what he can stand. His position is reasoned and he has given as much thought as he can to the case. He has been deceived by lies, as I have also been, most certainly, and perhaps you and others too. Unpicking lies coming from such a source is extremely difficult.


I believe there are indications with some of her early comments and preliminary testimony that she may have been woken up by the sound of a car slamming on brakes. The scream from Hell is an exaggeration that only showed up during the actual trial testimony (going by memory).

That's quite some embellishment.
Sample 36B: not blood, not human and not a sample (no cytology!!). Sample 36I: Amanda's LCN profile, ergo the knife is the murder weapon. :boggled:
When do we get the fibre analysis results?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby B_Real » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:30 am

How does JK account for this:
Death in Perugia by John Follain
Page 150 - 151

7 November 2007

The prosecutor showed Meredith's father John into his office. John looked crushed, and Mignini couldn't help thinking of his own daughters.

'When did you last see your daughter?' the prosecutor began, questioning John as a witness.

'I think late September or early October, when Meredith came to us to get her winter clothes,' John replied.

'Did you talk often with your daughter?'

'I spoke to her every evening, or at the most every two days.'

'Did your daughter ever mention to you being worried about something, or that she'd had any unpleasant encounters?'

'No. My daughter has always been untroubled and happy and she never talked to me about having problems with other people.'

'Did she ever talk about the friends who lived with her?'

'Meredith once spoke to me about Amanda in a joking way, as a girl who was very sure of herself and a bit eccentric. Amanda boasted about being a great singer, she said that if she'd had a guitar she'd have shown Meredith her talent.'

'Did she ever talk to you about Amanda's boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito?'

'All that Meredith said was that Amanda had been there just a week and she already had a boyfriend.'



"In her statements, Amanda had repeatedly claimed that ‘Meredith was my friend’. Upon hearing this, my family and I were naturally upset. Meredith had constantly complained to her friends and our family that she was unnerved about the strange men Amanda brought home, and also about Amanda’s bad hygiene habits. A friend of Meredith’s also stated that on a return flight to London from Perugia, Meredith had complained about Amanda for almost the entire journey."


Kercher, John (2012-04-26). Meredith: Our daughter's murder and the heartbreaking quest for the truth (Kindle Locations 2237-2238). Hachette Littlehampton. Kindle Edition.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Jstanz » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:43 am

Sounds like a later embellishment to me. I thought lying was extremely repulsive to these people?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby MichaelB » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:52 am

anglolawyer wrote:
RoseMontague wrote:
anglolawyer wrote:
Hans wrote:I have to break a lance for Mr Kercher. (I'm not qualified to do a review, anyway, but the word I'd want to use, after reading "Meredith" is "mislead"... :((: :Asche auf mein Haupt:

I am feeling the same way. Given what he believes about the crime, his feelings about the publicity surrounding Amanda are entirely unstandable. I don't see it as a crime to have been duped by Mignini and Maresca. I believe many of us on this board are still unwittingly swallowing Mignini falsehoods actually.


At some point in time I agreed with you. We have long passed that point however. What the Kercher family is doing in continuing to actively promote and pursue a case for the guilt of AK and RS is simply wrong.

Let me ask you then Rose. What time do you think Nara says she heard Meredith scream? And so as not to be all cryptic, like a clever guilter, it wasn't 11.30 nor 10.30 either. Frank tells me those are pure Mignini lies.

I know the power I hold over my clients. I can sieve and sift information to them like you wouldn't believe. I am restrained only by the ethics of my trade from misleading them. Maresca's power over that family is increased by several orders of magnitude by geography, language and legal systems and I have no difficulty at all in understanding how JK and other family members may have been taken in. In the part of the book I have so far read there are frequent references to 'our lawyer explained this' and 'our lawyer explained that'.

If the criticism is that he has wilfully turned away from the truth, it is a rather harsh one, as what you want of him may be beyond what he can stand. His position is reasoned and he has given as much thought as he can to the case. He has been deceived by lies, as I have also been, most certainly, and perhaps you and others too. Unpicking lies coming from such a source is extremely difficult.


It's a legitimate question for people here to ask if it's a case of to hell with the truth on his part.
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Re: John Kercher Daily Mail Book Series

Postby DayDreamer » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:06 am

John Kercher told the Times he could not believe that Guede was his daughter's sole killer.

"One person could not have done it," he said. "She had 47 bruises. Two different knives were meant to have been used. Meredith did karate, for goodness' sake."

If more than one person was involved and Knox and Sollecito are innocent, "why is there not evidence of these other people?" Kercher asks.

"As we have always said, we would never want innocent people put in prison. But when you're presented with that whole body of evidence, by forensic investigators, and it is just overturned, without question -- without question -- it is very difficult."


OJ Simpson apparently killed 2 people by himself, one of which was a male, half his age, and in much better shape. I have no trouble thinking Rudy could have been the sole killer.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Clive Wismayer » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:19 am

Joanna Yeates was murdered in Bristol by a single, unarmed male attacker - Vincent Tabak.

wikipedia wrote:The prosecution case was that Tabak had strangled Yeates at her flat within minutes of her arrival home on 17 December 2010,[102] using "sufficient force" to kill her.[1] The trial was told that Tabak – around 1 foot (0.30 m) taller than Yeates – had used his height and build to overpower her, pinning her to the floor by the wrists, and that she had suffered 43 separate injuries to her head, neck, torso and arms during the struggle.[1][103] Injuries included cuts and bruises, and a fractured nose.[
Sample 36B: not blood, not human and not a sample (no cytology!!). Sample 36I: Amanda's LCN profile, ergo the knife is the murder weapon. :boggled:
When do we get the fibre analysis results?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Graeme » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:19 am

anglolawyer wrote:Joanna Yeates was murdered in Bristol by a single, unarmed male attacker - Vincent Tabak.

wikipedia wrote:The prosecution case was that Tabak had strangled Yeates at her flat within minutes of her arrival home on 17 December 2010,[102] using "sufficient force" to kill her.[1] The trial was told that Tabak – around 1 foot (0.30 m) taller than Yeates – had used his height and build to overpower her, pinning her to the floor by the wrists, and that she had suffered 43 separate injuries to her head, neck, torso and arms during the struggle.[1][103] Injuries included cuts and bruises, and a fractured nose.[


Good example. I was following that one.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby roteoctober » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:50 am

I can only quote an old Italian saying: "Non c'è peggior sordo di chi non vuol sentire" that is "there is no worse deaf than he who doesn't want to listen".

And after the public enthusiastic endorsement of an hate site like TMJK, even worse than both PMFs in my opinion, not just a PGP site but a personal insult site to both Knox and her family, I think that Knox is entitled to any answer, any, in deeds and words, written and spoken.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby schmidt53 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:04 am

B_Real wrote:How does JK account for this:
Death in Perugia by John Follain
Page 150 - 151

7 November 2007

The prosecutor showed Meredith's father John into his office. John looked crushed, and Mignini couldn't help thinking of his own daughters.

'When did you last see your daughter?' the prosecutor began, questioning John as a witness.

'I think late September or early October, when Meredith came to us to get her winter clothes,' John replied.

'Did you talk often with your daughter?'

'I spoke to her every evening, or at the most every two days.'

'Did your daughter ever mention to you being worried about something, or that she'd had any unpleasant encounters?'

'No. My daughter has always been untroubled and happy and she never talked to me about having problems with other people.'

'Did she ever talk about the friends who lived with her?'

'Meredith once spoke to me about Amanda in a joking way, as a girl who was very sure of herself and a bit eccentric. Amanda boasted about being a great singer, she said that if she'd had a guitar she'd have shown Meredith her talent.'

'Did she ever talk to you about Amanda's boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito?'

'All that Meredith said was that Amanda had been there just a week and she already had a boyfriend.'



"In her statements, Amanda had repeatedly claimed that ‘Meredith was my friend’. Upon hearing this, my family and I were naturally upset. Meredith had constantly complained to her friends and our family that she was unnerved about the strange men Amanda brought home, and also about Amanda’s bad hygiene habits. A friend of Meredith’s also stated that on a return flight to London from Perugia, Meredith had complained about Amanda for almost the entire journey."


Kercher, John (2012-04-26). Meredith: Our daughter's murder and the heartbreaking quest for the truth (Kindle Locations 2237-2238). Hachette Littlehampton. Kindle Edition.


The comment that Meredith says that Amanda already had a boyfriend after a week when the truth is Amanda/Rafaelle dated the the week of the murder. Amanda was there for a month at that point.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby erasmus44 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:20 am

I still wonder about Lloyd, the rejected suitor. Certainly should have been checked out. Probably a dead end but if it wasn't checked out it is another example of a botched investigation which presumed the answer to the question before even gathering evidence.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Jstanz » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:48 am

erasmus44 wrote:I still wonder about Lloyd, the rejected suitor. Certainly should have been checked out. Probably a dead end but if it wasn't checked out it is another example of a botched investigation which presumed the answer to the question before even gathering evidence.


I believe Lloyd was back in England though.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby erasmus44 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:54 am

Jstanz wrote:
erasmus44 wrote:I still wonder about Lloyd, the rejected suitor. Certainly should have been checked out. Probably a dead end but if it wasn't checked out it is another example of a botched investigation which presumed the answer to the question before even gathering evidence.


I believe Lloyd was back in England though.


He certainly seems to have been from England and it is unlikely that he travelled to Perugia just to meet MK and kill her but it is one of those loose ends(like any former boyfriends in Perugia, anyone else who had a key, unexamined evidence in MK's room, the erased hard drive of MK's computer) that should have been checked out. Of all of the women murdered, roughly half are murdered by husbands, former husbands, boyfriends, or former boyfriends.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Jstanz » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:21 pm

erasmus44 wrote:
Jstanz wrote:
erasmus44 wrote:I still wonder about Lloyd, the rejected suitor. Certainly should have been checked out. Probably a dead end but if it wasn't checked out it is another example of a botched investigation which presumed the answer to the question before even gathering evidence.


I believe Lloyd was back in England though.


He certainly seems to have been from England and it is unlikely that he travelled to Perugia just to meet MK and kill her but it is one of those loose ends(like any former boyfriends in Perugia, anyone else who had a key, unexamined evidence in MK's room, the erased hard drive of MK's computer) that should have been checked out. Of all of the women murdered, roughly half are murdered by husbands, former husbands, boyfriends, or former boyfriends.


True
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Malkmus » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:22 pm

I purchased the book.
He quotes Amanda's letter to the police as selected quotes in one paragraph as if it is the whole thing. He leaves out any of her sentences casting doubt on the statements she gave police. I find his selective quoting troubling. It's rather misleading, and he had to make a conscious decision to leave out those sentences from her letter.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Jstanz » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:24 pm

Malkmus wrote:I purchased the book.
He quotes Amanda's letter to the police as selected quotes in one paragraph as if it is the whole thing. He leaves out any of her sentences casting doubt on the statements she gave police. I find his selective quoting troubling. It's rather misleading, and he had to make a conscious decision to leave out those sentences from her letter.


Wouldn't something like that be grounds for a lawsuit?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Sarah » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:27 pm

Malkmus wrote:I purchased the book.
He quotes Amanda's letter to the police as selected quotes in one paragraph as if it is the whole thing. He leaves out any of her sentences casting doubt on the statements she gave police. I find his selective quoting troubling. It's rather misleading, and he had to make a conscious decision to leave out those sentences from her letter.


THAT is very troubling. :frown:
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby B_Real » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:32 pm

Malkmus wrote:I purchased the book.
He quotes Amanda's letter to the police as selected quotes in one paragraph as if it is the whole thing. He leaves out any of her sentences casting doubt on the statements she gave police. I find his selective quoting troubling. It's rather misleading, and he had to make a conscious decision to leave out those sentences from her letter.


As I showed earlier comparing the quotes from Follain and his book, the stuff about Meredith 'constantly complaining' about Amanda to her family appears to be a fabrication as well. And of course Arline Kercher in the press conference on the day of the verdict described A & M as being friendly but that Amanda wanted to hang around more with Italians.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Grayhawker » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:49 pm

It almost sounds like he wrote the book by "cut 'n paste" from other people's writing. It seems to regurgitate old stuff written in the media or by anti-Amanda books.

It would be interesting, and take a lot of time, to do a side-by-side of his book with quotes and statements written by others.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Rixx » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:52 pm

It absolutely is a fabrication, B_Real. Here's what Frank Sfarzo reported at the time:

SATURDAY, APRIL 19, 2008

Yesterday, Meredith's mom, sister and brother were heard by Pm Mignini...It seems that they also confirmed that Meredith did not get along with Amanda.

FRIDAY, JUNE 5, 2009

Arline, John and Stephanie Kercher returned this morning where the spirit of their angel dwells.

SATURDAY, JUNE 6, 2009

[Arline, John & Stephanie in Court]

Meredith's day today at Perugia's courthouse. Attorney Francesco Maresca organized the testimony of John, Arline and Stephanie as a press conference, to give the world the information everybody wanted to know about Mez and her family.
...
The girls were laughing at home, Amanda was funny with her loud singing. They couldn't get through the fact that Amanda wasn't aware she was loud, that was hilarious to them. It was a bit less hilarious when Amanda started to skip cleaning shifts or to forget to flush, but it doesn't really seem there had been serious discussions or fights.
...
In this memorial day, in this press-conference-like interrogation Knox and Sollecito's defense attorneys avoided to intervene. Just from Mignini and from Maresca there were a few case-related questions.

About the relationship Meredith-Amanda it was mentioned just the laughs about the singing, the mild disappointment about the hygiene issue and a certain surprise that Amanda found a boyfriend as soon as she arrived (mystery about who they were referring to). Nothing new.
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Re: John Kercher Daily Mail Book Series

Postby Hans » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:00 pm

DayDreamer wrote:
John Kercher told the Times he could not believe that Guede was his daughter's sole killer.

"One person could not have done it," he said. "She had 47 bruises. Two different knives were meant to have been used. Meredith did karate, for goodness' sake."

If more than one person was involved and Knox and Sollecito are innocent, "why is there not evidence of these other people?" Kercher asks.

"As we have always said, we would never want innocent people put in prison. But when you're presented with that whole body of evidence, by forensic investigators, and it is just overturned, without question -- without question -- it is very difficult."


OJ Simpson apparently killed 2 people by himself, one of which was a male, half his age, and in much better shape. I have no trouble thinking Rudy could have been the sole killer.

Because they only looked for evidence against Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, I wonder if Mr. Kercher has taken a look at this one: http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/test_results.pdf or the translated index http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/test_ ... slated.doc ... They didn't even take samples of Laura and Filomena... (would have been nice to see if they left DNA in their house.) :((:
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Jstanz » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:01 pm

I hope those of you who are reading the book post reviews about the discrepancies between the book and earlier statements by him.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby roteoctober » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:08 pm

Jstanz wrote:
Malkmus wrote:I purchased the book.
He quotes Amanda's letter to the police as selected quotes in one paragraph as if it is the whole thing. He leaves out any of her sentences casting doubt on the statements she gave police. I find his selective quoting troubling. It's rather misleading, and he had to make a conscious decision to leave out those sentences from her letter.


Wouldn't something like that be grounds for a lawsuit?


Probably yes, but I don't think there will be one.

However, it would be wrong, IMO, to let pass unchallenged that, and other, falsehoods.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Malkmus » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:13 pm

roteoctober wrote:
Jstanz wrote:
Malkmus wrote:I purchased the book.
He quotes Amanda's letter to the police as selected quotes in one paragraph as if it is the whole thing. He leaves out any of her sentences casting doubt on the statements she gave police. I find his selective quoting troubling. It's rather misleading, and he had to make a conscious decision to leave out those sentences from her letter.


Wouldn't something like that be grounds for a lawsuit?


Probably yes, but I don't think there will be one.

However, it would be wrong, IMO, to let pass unchallenged that, and other, falsehoods.


Looking back at his version of her letter, it isn't even just selected quotes, he actually paraphrases it, but keeps it in quotations!
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby B_Real » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:26 pm

Malkmus wrote:
Looking back at his version of her letter, it isn't even just selected quotes, he actually paraphrases it, but keeps it in quotations!


So he's putting words into Meredith's mouth she never said, and words into Amanda's mouth she never said.

His media blitz continues, he's in The Mirror today http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/me ... uld-809729 with another version of the Sunday Times interview, and The Mail again tomorrow I presume.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby MichaelB » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:03 am

I asked up page but has he commented on any journalists, Mignini, Mareca or the Knox/Mellas/Sollecito familes???
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Clive Wismayer » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:57 am

Well, I have 'finished' the book, having read the last few chapters. I have to go back to read the early ones. I feel a lot of sympathy. His heart is broken. The book will have been very carefully proof read by a libel lawyer and does not seem to cross the line. He is mystified by the course taken by proceedings, the convictions having seemed so clear to him. So, he was convinced of guilt and is now puzzled, with guilt probably still being his preferred view.

He hints faintly at some sort of fix in relation to the appeal, but it is very faint and equally consistent with a perception that the appeal was heading in the defendants' favour. Maresca complained it was like David fighting Goliath (er, David won ... ). So, not just one biased tribunal, but two (that's my comment not JK's).

As I have read quite a few of the books on the case I have a keen eye for new facts. So far I get only two from JK's book:

- he would talk to MK on her way home as she was troubled by drug addicts
- he relied a lot on Maresca to interpret the course of proceedings, as I already expected. There is no suggestion of his doing any independent research or anything of that kind.

I think I understand why he believes what he does, even though I think he is wrong on fundamental points (e.g. that the evidence shows there was more than one attacker).

Maybe the earlier chapters will be more interesting. Presently, I don't think you are missing much if you don't buy it, but all these books add something, including this one (so far).
Sample 36B: not blood, not human and not a sample (no cytology!!). Sample 36I: Amanda's LCN profile, ergo the knife is the murder weapon. :boggled:
When do we get the fibre analysis results?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby geebee2 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:15 am

Nice review Anglo.

I think I understand why he believes what he does..


Perhaps you would like to expand on that?

My impression is that he only has a superficial understanding of the evidence, and has never properly understood the defence case ( or even tried to understand it ). Has he read Hellman's report? Perhaps not, in that I guess the book must have been in the advanced stages of preparation before any English translation of the report was available. He may not even now be aware that (two) translations are available.

Mind you, I think that Hellmann severely mis-understood the interrogation. Perhaps because much of Amanda's testimony was in English ( was Hellmann or Zanetti fluent in English? ).
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby RoseMontague » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:23 am

anglolawyer wrote:As I have read quite a few of the books on the case I have a keen eye for new facts. So far I get only two from JK's book:

- he would talk to MK on her way home as she was troubled by drug addicts
- he relied a lot on Maresca to interpret the course of proceedings, as I already expected. There is no suggestion of his doing any independent research or anything of that kind.


The call before she got home that did not go through would be consistent with Dan O's revised timeline theory saying she made the call before the garage video caught her on tape.

That he has failed to do his own research is something we have speculated about based on some of the silliness he has listed as his case for guilt. I wonder if this is the case for the rest of the family?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Clive Wismayer » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:29 am

geebee2 wrote:Nice review Anglo.

I think I understand why he believes what he does..


Perhaps you would like to expand on that?

My impression is that he only has a superficial understanding of the evidence, and has never properly understood the defence case ( or even tried to understand it ). Has he read Hellman's report? Perhaps not, in that I guess the book must have been in the advanced stages of preparation before any English translation of the report was available. He may not even now be aware that (two) translations are available.

Mind you, I think that Hellmann severely mis-understood the interrogation. Perhaps because much of Amanda's testimony was in English ( was Hellmann or Zanetti fluent in English? ).

There is nothing to suggest he has read Hellman and there is no discussion of Hellman's reasoning on any of the points addressed in his judgment. Contrast Massei, which is discussed in some detail and with approbation.

When I said I understood I meant not that I agree but that I saw a man for whom the case was solved by Massei's verdict and who has been confused subsequently by the outcome of the appeals. I believe the publisher's libel screening will have prevented him from going further. He does not shy away from setting out the evidence used to prove the case and addresses it in some detail. A striking example is the evidence about the purchase of bleach, which he records exactly as the prosecution would have you believe: Amanda bought something at Cardo early on 02 Nov, per Quintavalle, bleach was found at Raffaele's apartment and the cleaner said she had never seen bleach there before (did she give evidence to this effect?). There is nothing to balance this.

As I said upthread, he thinks the evidence shows multiple attackers (two knives, no defence wounds or signs of struggle, 47 injuries) and he leaves in the air the question: if not Amanda and Raffaele then who (not forgetting to report Comodi saying the cops were not looking for anyone else)? He is as PGP as English libel laws permit.

I see him as a pawn of Maresca (I believe in the power of my profession to control the minds of its clients) and, adding to this his need for closure, I think I see how he arrived at where he is now.

His right to believe what he wants is not greater than Amanda's and Raffaele's right to live their lives as free, innocent people but so long as he expresses himself with circumspection, even if leaving no doubt what he thinks, personally I have no complaint and, on the contrary, much sympathy.
Sample 36B: not blood, not human and not a sample (no cytology!!). Sample 36I: Amanda's LCN profile, ergo the knife is the murder weapon. :boggled:
When do we get the fibre analysis results?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Skind » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:50 am

"bleach was found at Raffaele's apartment and the cleaner said she had never seen bleach there before (did she give evidence to this effect?)"

I believe she gave testimony that she didn't use bleach herself, but that she was aware of the bleach being there from the previous cleaner.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby bmf1950 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:15 am

anglolawyer wrote: -- (I believe in the power of my profession to control the minds of its clients)
Good post. However, we will have to agree to disagree on that parenthetical commdent. :P
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby geebee2 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:06 am

One thing is certain ( and perhaps John Kercher is not aware of this ) : a skilled lawyer can always present almost any case to apparently prove either guilt or innocence.

It is only after considering both sides that one can hope to make a fair judgement. Even then, if one side has insufficient resources, or poor lawyers, the outcome may not be fair. If Raffaele and Amanda's families had been unable to afford the costs of the case, they might still be in prison.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby B_Real » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:20 am

I disagree that the book is not libelous. There are numerous falsehoods here implicating two innocent people in murder. I was appalled to see that he's claiming as fact things like the purchase of bleach and bleach receipts. He didn't get that from the Massei Report because it's not there.

It's not really good enough for him to say that he just didn't bother doing any research.

That's not to say that I think there's any likelihood of anyone launching a libel action against him, and I do respect the views of those who understand where he's coming from having read the book.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Clive Wismayer » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:45 am

B_Real wrote:I disagree that the book is not libelous. There are numerous falsehoods here implicating two innocent people in murder. I was appalled to see that he's claiming as fact things like the purchase of bleach and bleach receipts. He didn't get that from the Massei Report because it's not there.

It's not really good enough for him to say that he just didn't bother doing any research.

That's not to say that I think there's any likelihood of anyone launching a libel action against him, and I do respect the views of those who understand where he's coming from having read the book.

Well no. At location 2354 he records Quintavalle's testimony. He doesn't state it as fact. It is not libel to repeat what has been said in court and he confines himself to doing that.
Sample 36B: not blood, not human and not a sample (no cytology!!). Sample 36I: Amanda's LCN profile, ergo the knife is the murder weapon. :boggled:
When do we get the fibre analysis results?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby B_Real » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:57 am

anglolawyer wrote:
B_Real wrote:I disagree that the book is not libelous. There are numerous falsehoods here implicating two innocent people in murder. I was appalled to see that he's claiming as fact things like the purchase of bleach and bleach receipts. He didn't get that from the Massei Report because it's not there.

It's not really good enough for him to say that he just didn't bother doing any research.

That's not to say that I think there's any likelihood of anyone launching a libel action against him, and I do respect the views of those who understand where he's coming from having read the book.

Well no. At location 2354 he records Quintavalle's testimony. He doesn't state it as fact. It is not libel to repeat what has been said in court and he confines himself to doing that.


But Quintavalle doesn't say anyone purchased bleach. And Sollecito's cleaner never said that she had never seen bleach at Sollecito's apartment. In fact she said there was bleach there. And nobody claimed there was a bleach receipt, because there isn't one. So I don't see that he's getting this from court testimony. But I haven't read the book obviously.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Dougm » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:10 am

B_Real wrote:
anglolawyer wrote:
B_Real wrote:I disagree that the book is not libelous. There are numerous falsehoods here implicating two innocent people in murder. I was appalled to see that he's claiming as fact things like the purchase of bleach and bleach receipts. He didn't get that from the Massei Report because it's not there.

It's not really good enough for him to say that he just didn't bother doing any research.

That's not to say that I think there's any likelihood of anyone launching a libel action against him, and I do respect the views of those who understand where he's coming from having read the book.

Well no. At location 2354 he records Quintavalle's testimony. He doesn't state it as fact. It is not libel to repeat what has been said in court and he confines himself to doing that.


But Quintavalle doesn't say anyone purchased bleach. And Sollecito's cleaner never said that she had never seen bleach at Sollecito's apartment. In fact she said there was bleach there. And nobody claimed there was a bleach receipt, because there isn't one. So I don't see that he's getting this from court testimony. But I haven't read the book obviously.


There is also no evidence of any clean up with bleach. The luminol would have looked different if there was a cleanup. There would have been bleach on the mop, or bleach smears found with luminol, or something. There is zero evidence of any clean up with bleach.
When you berate someone and push them and confuse them and lie to them and convince them that they're wrong you're not finding the truth.

Amanda Knox
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Flipp » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:20 am

anglolawyer wrote:
B_Real wrote:I disagree that the book is not libelous. There are numerous falsehoods here implicating two innocent people in murder. I was appalled to see that he's claiming as fact things like the purchase of bleach and bleach receipts. He didn't get that from the Massei Report because it's not there.

It's not really good enough for him to say that he just didn't bother doing any research.

That's not to say that I think there's any likelihood of anyone launching a libel action against him, and I do respect the views of those who understand where he's coming from having read the book.

Well no. At location 2354 he records Quintavalle's testimony. He doesn't state it as fact. It is not libel to repeat what has been said in court and he confines himself to doing that.


Here's the quote:

Kercher, John (2012-04-26). Meredith: Our daughter's murder and the heartbreaking quest for the truth (Kindle Locations 2354-2358). Hachette Littlehampton. Kindle Edition wrote:More important testimony came from Marco Quintavalle, a supermarket owner, who testified that he saw Amanda Knox standing outside his shop at around 7.45 a.m. on 2 November. He claimed that when he opened up the shop, she entered and went to the section where the cleaning products were kept. Though he testified that he was not certain what it was that she had bought, the police who made a search of home testified that they had found a receipt for cleaning products from the same shop. After the murder police found several bottles of bleach in Raffaelle’s flat, but his cleaner confirmed that she had never seen bleach there before.

Now this one from Frank:
PERUGIASHOCK: CHIRIBOGA AT THE STAND - Friday, June 26, 2009 wrote:Marina Chiriboga didn't receive the call to the stand, she had changed address. But today they found her and they brought her to the courtroom. The beautiful Latina had been cleaning at Raffaele's place as long as her pregnancy allowed her, and she was also working at the infamous Conad store owned by the genius of memory Marco Quintavalle.
After the crime she had been interviewed by Sollecito's lawyers and then by the police about something important at that time and (for someone) still important now: the bleach. She confirmed the two bottles of Ace bleach had been in Raffaele's apartment since the summer and in exactly the same conditions, and on the same place, in which they were found after the crime, one still sealed and the other one half full. So, those who still believed in it can say definitely goodbye to the bleach legend, that the rule of suspicion wanted to have been used for cleaning the murder weapon...

Kercher's book is full of these easily disprovable bits of false information, I've counted about 20. These are not innocent mistakes, it is clear that John Kercher still hates Amanda to the point of creating his own version of the facts.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Clive Wismayer » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:20 am

B_Real wrote:
anglolawyer wrote:
B_Real wrote:I disagree that the book is not libelous. There are numerous falsehoods here implicating two innocent people in murder. I was appalled to see that he's claiming as fact things like the purchase of bleach and bleach receipts. He didn't get that from the Massei Report because it's not there.

It's not really good enough for him to say that he just didn't bother doing any research.

That's not to say that I think there's any likelihood of anyone launching a libel action against him, and I do respect the views of those who understand where he's coming from having read the book.

Well no. At location 2354 he records Quintavalle's testimony. He doesn't state it as fact. It is not libel to repeat what has been said in court and he confines himself to doing that.


But Quintavalle doesn't say anyone purchased bleach. And Sollecito's cleaner never said that she had never seen bleach at Sollecito's apartment. In fact she said there was bleach there. And nobody claimed there was a bleach receipt, because there isn't one. So I don't see that he's getting this from court testimony. But I haven't read the book obviously.

My bad if I said JK writes that Q testified that Amanda bought bleach. He faithfully records that Q said a woman he later identified as Amanda went to the cleaning section, he doesn't know what she bought. Then he adds that the cops testified that they found a receipt for cleaning products from the same shop, but he doesn't give the date of the receipt. Then there is a reference to the cleaner's evidence.

You can take an interesting view of this. At the beginning of the chapter entitled 'trial' he says the family couldn't get to Italy much and relied on frequent calls from Maresca. At 2142 he says he relied on calls from Maresca 'on a weekly and sometimes a daily basis'. Hmm. What if the book is JK's unwitting record of his manipulation by Maresca? Has his head been filled with crap by his lawyer? It wouldn't be the first time this has happened and anyone who has been involved in litigation in a foreign jurisdiction from which they are separated by distance and language (not to mention culture) will undertand how very difficult it is to keep a handle on wtf is going on.

B-Real, can you remind us what finding Massei made about Quintavalle, if any? On my iPad I cannot easily search the document.
Sample 36B: not blood, not human and not a sample (no cytology!!). Sample 36I: Amanda's LCN profile, ergo the knife is the murder weapon. :boggled:
When do we get the fibre analysis results?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Hans » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:26 am

anglolawyer wrote:
B_Real wrote:
anglolawyer wrote:
B_Real wrote:I disagree that the book is not libelous. There are numerous falsehoods here implicating two innocent people in murder. I was appalled to see that he's claiming as fact things like the purchase of bleach and bleach receipts. He didn't get that from the Massei Report because it's not there.

It's not really good enough for him to say that he just didn't bother doing any research.

That's not to say that I think there's any likelihood of anyone launching a libel action against him, and I do respect the views of those who understand where he's coming from having read the book.

Well no. At location 2354 he records Quintavalle's testimony. He doesn't state it as fact. It is not libel to repeat what has been said in court and he confines himself to doing that.


But Quintavalle doesn't say anyone purchased bleach. And Sollecito's cleaner never said that she had never seen bleach at Sollecito's apartment. In fact she said there was bleach there. And nobody claimed there was a bleach receipt, because there isn't one. So I don't see that he's getting this from court testimony. But I haven't read the book obviously.

My bad if I said JK writes that Q testified that Amanda bought bleach. He faithfully records that Q said a woman he later identified as Amanda went to the cleaning section, he doesn't know what she bought. Then he adds that the cops testified that they found a receipt for cleaning products from the same shop, but he doesn't give the date of the receipt. Then there is a reference to the cleaner's evidence.

You can take an interesting view of this. At the beginning of the chapter entitled 'trial' he says the family couldn't get to Italy much and relied on frequent calls from Maresca. At 2142 he says he relied on calls from Maresca 'on a weekly and sometimes a daily basis'. Hmm. What if the book is JK's unwitting record of his manipulation by Maresca? Has his head been filled with crap by his lawyer? It wouldn't be the first time this has happened and anyone who has been involved in litigation in a foreign jurisdiction from which they are separated by distance and language (not to mention culture) will undertand how very difficult it is to keep a handle on wtf is going on.

B-Real, can you remind us what finding Massei made about Quintavalle, if any? On my iPad I cannot easily search the document.

Massei page 84 (of the pdf) wrote:This Court deems that the testimony of Quintavalle is reliable. It was discovered that Inspector Volturno did not ask Quintavalle if, on the morning of November 2, he saw Amanda Knox in his shop.
He [Raffaele] is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque caricature that is “Foxy Knoxy”
~ Amanda Knox
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby B_Real » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:26 am

anglolawyer wrote:
You can take an interesting view of this. At the beginning of the chapter entitled 'trial' he says the family couldn't get to Italy much and relied on frequent calls from Maresca. At 2142 he says he relied on calls from Maresca 'on a weekly and sometimes a daily basis'. Hmm. What if the book is JK's unwitting record of his manipulation by Maresca? Has his head been filled with crap by his lawyer? It wouldn't be the first time this has happened and anyone who has been involved in litigation in a foreign jurisdiction from which they are separated by distance and language (not to mention culture) will undertand how very difficult it is to keep a handle on wtf is going on.

B-Real, can you remind us what finding Massei made about Quintavalle, if any? On my iPad I cannot easily search the document.


Quintavalle wrote:The fact just mentioned also allows us to give mention to the declarations given by witness Marco Quintavalle on the hearing of March 21, 2009. He reported that on the morning of November 2, 2007 as he went like every morning to his shop, a "Margherita Conad" food store located in Corso Garibaldi no. 6/8, he raised the automatic security shutters at 7:45 from inside the shop, he specified that the switch that activates the rolling shutters is located between the wall and the side of a refrigerator, while pressing the button he could see ‚the silhouette of a young woman who was waiting for me to open the store" (page 71 hearing of March 21, 2009) and in fact this girl came in and he could see her a distance of one metre and perhaps less. A short time after, perhaps after one minute he saw this girl who was again outside the store on [75] the street and was walking in the direction of descent "towards Piazza Grimana" (page 118). This young woman remained impressed in his memory because of her very light coloured eyes, azzurri [light blue]. She was wearing jeans, a gray coat, a scarf, a hat. (‚I say hat; I don’t remember if it was a headset/cap or something else, however she had a head cover" page 73), she could have been 1.65 to 1.67metres tall. Her face was bianchissimo [very light skin colour] and she apparently was about 20-21 years old.
She went into the store department that had groceries on sale, and detergents and toilet paper. He did not know if she bought anything (page 85 hearing of March 21, 2009). He recalled that a few days after his employee told him that she had heard of the arrest of Raffaele Sollecito, who was well known by Quintavalle because he used to go into his shop almost every day. Quintavalle so asked her to go out to buy any newspaper and when he saw all the pictures that were there, he said to himself: ‚but this is the girl of the other morning" and the reference was to the picture of Amanda Knox published on a newspaper (page 76 hearing of March 21, 2009.) He also recognised this girl in the defendant present in court (page 80).
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Clive Wismayer » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:27 am

Flipp

Did you type out the extract from JK's book or have you found a way to copy and paste from e-books? If the latter, please teach me.

This is very interesting. Among the possibilities are:

A JK is an unscrupulous and malicious liar
B JK is the innocent dupe of an unscrupulous and grasping liar
Sample 36B: not blood, not human and not a sample (no cytology!!). Sample 36I: Amanda's LCN profile, ergo the knife is the murder weapon. :boggled:
When do we get the fibre analysis results?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Clive Wismayer » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:30 am

Thanks B_Real

Does Massei make any finding of fact e.g. that Amanda was at Cardo that morning?
Sample 36B: not blood, not human and not a sample (no cytology!!). Sample 36I: Amanda's LCN profile, ergo the knife is the murder weapon. :boggled:
When do we get the fibre analysis results?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby B_Real » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:35 am

anglolawyer wrote:Thanks B_Real

Does Massei make any finding of fact e.g. that Amanda was at Cardo that morning?


Well he says Quintavlle is reliable. That's presumably enough. Of course what he doesn't have is any conceivable purpose for Amanda to go to the shop.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Bill Williams » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:38 am

anglolawyer wrote: This is very interesting. Among the possibilities are:

A JK is an unscrupulous and malicious liar
B JK is the innocent dupe of an unscrupulous and grasping liar

With "A" are you suggesting that John Kercher is lying about what Maresca told him? Or are you suggesting that Kercher has, in fact, done independent investigation into his daughter's murder, has discovered evidence exonerating the two students, and is suppressing that?

Just curious.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Hans » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:39 am

B_Real wrote:
anglolawyer wrote:Thanks B_Real

Does Massei make any finding of fact e.g. that Amanda was at Cardo that morning?


Well he says Quintavlle is reliable. That's presumably enough. Of course what he doesn't have is any conceivable purpose for Amanda to go to the shop.

Massei pg. 85 wrote:These elements contradict the version provided by Amanda of a peaceful night of continuous and prolonged sleep that she and Raffaele allegedly spent together; elements which also show a peculiar condition in which both Amanda [77] and Raffaele must have found themselves: at 5.32 am, Raffaele Sollecito went to his computer and listened to music for about half an hour; he also turned on his cellphone; at 7.45 am Amanda was already out of the house and entering into Quintavalle’s shop, showing a particular urgency to buy and do something; the trip to Gubbio had by now been forgotten and when Francesco Sollecito phoned his son at 9:30 am about that trip, his son was still in bed.
He [Raffaele] is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque caricature that is “Foxy Knoxy”
~ Amanda Knox
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Flipp » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:47 am

anglolawyer wrote:Flipp

Did you type out the extract from JK's book or have you found a way to copy and paste from e-books? If the latter, please teach me.

This is very interesting. Among the possibilities are:

A JK is an unscrupulous and malicious liar
B JK is the innocent dupe of an unscrupulous and grasping liar

I'm using the Kindle application for Windows. This version allows copy/paste from e-books, it even appends a copyright message at the end.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Clive Wismayer » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:48 am

Bill Williams wrote:
anglolawyer wrote: This is very interesting. Among the possibilities are:

A JK is an unscrupulous and malicious liar
B JK is the innocent dupe of an unscrupulous and grasping liar

With "A" are you suggesting that John Kercher is lying about what Maresca told him? Or are you suggesting that Kercher has, in fact, done independent investigation into his daughter's murder, has discovered evidence exonerating the two students, and is suppressing that?

Just curious.

I am not (yet) suggesting anything. Just floating possibilities. The book does not purport to be a record of what Maresca told JK. The short answer to your first question is 'no' (I have no idea what Maresca told JK). The second question I answer 'yes' - as a possibility for consideration.
Sample 36B: not blood, not human and not a sample (no cytology!!). Sample 36I: Amanda's LCN profile, ergo the knife is the murder weapon. :boggled:
When do we get the fibre analysis results?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Clive Wismayer » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:49 am

Flipp wrote:
anglolawyer wrote:Flipp

Did you type out the extract from JK's book or have you found a way to copy and paste from e-books? If the latter, please teach me.

This is very interesting. Among the possibilities are:

A JK is an unscrupulous and malicious liar
B JK is the innocent dupe of an unscrupulous and grasping liar

I'm using the Kindle application for Windows. This version allows copy/paste from e-books, it even appends a copyright message at the end.

How unfair. I cannot do the same with the iPad.
Sample 36B: not blood, not human and not a sample (no cytology!!). Sample 36I: Amanda's LCN profile, ergo the knife is the murder weapon. :boggled:
When do we get the fibre analysis results?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Clive Wismayer » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:51 am

Hans wrote:
B_Real wrote:
anglolawyer wrote:Thanks B_Real

Does Massei make any finding of fact e.g. that Amanda was at Cardo that morning?


Well he says Quintavlle is reliable. That's presumably enough. Of course what he doesn't have is any conceivable purpose for Amanda to go to the shop.

Massei pg. 85 wrote:These elements contradict the version provided by Amanda of a peaceful night of continuous and prolonged sleep that she and Raffaele allegedly spent together; elements which also show a peculiar condition in which both Amanda [77] and Raffaele must have found themselves: at 5.32 am, Raffaele Sollecito went to his computer and listened to music for about half an hour; he also turned on his cellphone; at 7.45 am Amanda was already out of the house and entering into Quintavalle’s shop, showing a particular urgency to buy and do something; the trip to Gubbio had by now been forgotten and when Francesco Sollecito phoned his son at 9:30 am about that trip, his son was still in bed.

Thanks Hans. What a cretin Massei was! But this finding gives JK ample legal cover to make the insinuation that Amanda bought bleach that morning.
Sample 36B: not blood, not human and not a sample (no cytology!!). Sample 36I: Amanda's LCN profile, ergo the knife is the murder weapon. :boggled:
When do we get the fibre analysis results?
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby B_Real » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:54 am

Kercher, John (2012-04-26). Meredith: Our daughter's murder and the heartbreaking quest for the truth (Kindle Locations 2354-2358). Hachette Littlehampton. Kindle Edition wrote:
More important testimony came from Marco Quintavalle, a supermarket owner, who testified that he saw Amanda Knox standing outside his shop at around 7.45 a.m. on 2 November. He claimed that when he opened up the shop, she entered and went to the section where the cleaning products were kept. Though he testified that he was not certain what it was that she had bought, the police who made a search of home testified that they had found a receipt for cleaning products from the same shop. After the murder police found several bottles of bleach in Raffaelle’s flat, but his cleaner confirmed that she had never seen bleach there before.


Some rewording here from JK too, changing the meaning. Qunitavalle said he did not know if she bought anything, not that he was not sure what she had bought.
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Hans » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:55 am

anglolawyer wrote:
Flipp wrote:
anglolawyer wrote:Flipp

Did you type out the extract from JK's book or have you found a way to copy and paste from e-books? If the latter, please teach me.

This is very interesting. Among the possibilities are:

A JK is an unscrupulous and malicious liar
B JK is the innocent dupe of an unscrupulous and grasping liar

I'm using the Kindle application for Windows. This version allows copy/paste from e-books, it even appends a copyright message at the end.

How unfair. I cannot do the same with the iPad.
I'm using it, too, but I can't copy/paste from the e-books. Maybe the german version doesn't allow it.. :((:
He [Raffaele] is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque caricature that is “Foxy Knoxy”
~ Amanda Knox
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Dougm » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:57 am

anglolawyer wrote:
You can take an interesting view of this. At the beginning of the chapter entitled 'trial' he says the family couldn't get to Italy much and relied on frequent calls from Maresca. At 2142 he says he relied on calls from Maresca 'on a weekly and sometimes a daily basis'. Hmm. What if the book is JK's unwitting record of his manipulation by Maresca? Has his head been filled with crap by his lawyer? It wouldn't be the first time this has happened and anyone who has been involved in litigation in a foreign jurisdiction from which they are separated by distance and language (not to mention culture) will undertand how very difficult it is to keep a handle on wtf is going on.


I would think that if a person in that position was being briefed closely by their lawyer, they would believe what that lawyer said. If they did not believe it, or thought the lawyer was not telling them the truth, they would not continue to keep that lawyer on the case.

Does anyone know for sure if Maresca speaks english? I have never heard him speak it. If he doesn't, I wonder if they had a translator for these briefings?
When you berate someone and push them and confuse them and lie to them and convince them that they're wrong you're not finding the truth.

Amanda Knox
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Re: John Kercher's book - Meredith

Postby Hans » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:08 am

Dougm wrote:
anglolawyer wrote:
You can take an interesting view of this. At the beginning of the chapter entitled 'trial' he says the family couldn't get to Italy much and relied on frequent calls from Maresca. At 2142 he says he relied on calls from Maresca 'on a weekly and sometimes a daily basis'. Hmm. What if the book is JK's unwitting record of his manipulation by Maresca? Has his head been filled with crap by his lawyer? It wouldn't be the first time this has happened and anyone who has been involved in litigation in a foreign jurisdiction from which they are separated by distance and language (not to mention culture) will undertand how very difficult it is to keep a handle on wtf is going on.


I would think that if a person in that position was being briefed closely by their lawyer, they would believe what that lawyer said. If they did not believe it, or thought the lawyer was not telling them the truth, they would not continue to keep that lawyer on the case.

Does anyone know for sure if Maresca speaks english? I have never heard him speak it. If he doesn't, I wonder if they had a translator for these briefings?

At the beginnig of the chapter "The Investigation" Mr Kercher writes, that Mr Maresca would speak to Stephanie (who speaks italian) on the phone, or to them through an interpreter... (kindle position 1107)
He [Raffaele] is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque caricature that is “Foxy Knoxy”
~ Amanda Knox
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