Today over at TJMK

Today over at TJMK

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:48 pm

I'm going to try to post here the latest from the True Justice for Meredith Kercher website. Things have got fairly vile since the acquital of AK and RS. What vilifying innocent people has to do with "true justice", I'll never know.

I'd appreciate it if folk here DID NOT react with strong language. (I guess I've already blown it by calling the posts there "vile". I'll try to behave.)

This is not a competition about who can get in the better insult. True justice for ANY murder victim is searching for the truth, not slinging mud.

I sincerely hope the "Injustice in Perugia" folk can take the higher road.
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Today over at the TJMK website - Wed Oct 12, 2011

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:49 pm

This is posted today on the TJMK site. It cites Wendy Murphy, a US journalist who once was a prosecutor, as saying, "The evidence still points to Amanda Knox," even in light of the Oct 4 acquital.

These are the points listed as outstanding evidence (in summary):

- AK making out with RS hours after discovering MK's murder
- crying tears of self-pleasure at being acquited on Oct 4
- Guede is obviously guilty, but multiple attackers is a fact
- Knox falsely accused Lumumba
- Knox failed to retract false accusation when she had chance
- murder is beyond question a multiple attack
- DNA "contamination" on bra-clasp makes no sense
- no alibi for AK and RS
- ample evidence of a faked break in
- MK DNA on knife cannot be ruled out
- AK DNA on kife conclusive
- knife scrubbed with bleach and abrasive sustance
- Guede hears AK & MK argue over missing money, ie. motive
- RS could not say 'for sure' AK with him all night of murder
- AK conceded there was no reason for so much of her DNA to be mixed with MK's DNA at the apartment.

The comments about this on the TFMK page are over the top. The use of terms like the "truly evil Knox PR machine", and the vilification of anything to do with what's called, "that pathetic excuse for a family" is horrifying.
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Today over at the TJMK website - Thurs Oct 13, 2011

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:11 pm

Too much PR taints chances for an Amanda Movie

- pro-Amanda PR is all about a weeping Edda (Amanda's mother) and her martyr child (Amanda)
- Knox family has "lied themselves blue" to stay on innocence script
- PR did not affect the outcome of the trial though
- PR simply paid for family travel, guaranteed to make AK a tabloid curiosity for life
- Edda calling media "a curse" is ironic, as it was the Knox's who went to the media
- PR now allows AK to be an endorser of commercial products
- AK slander conviction limits commercial opportunities
- "poisonous flaming" of "Meredith supporters" also limits opportunities
- Knox family cannot both credit Italian courts for freeing AK, then call then medieval for slandering "innocent black man"
- Appealing slander charge opens interrogation content into view, incl. her admission of being at crime scene, so no appeal of slander charge
- Conclusion: this is not a Hollywood blockbuster
- The public only thinks of this as a prosecutor seeking revenge
- producers won't spend millions with final appeal coming up, uncertainty of that outcome might complicate things
- "And there’s just too much inconvenient information floating around about the story"
- what is the Hollywood story anyway?
- Young lovers: AK & RS? They are finished as a pair.
- Amanda's mother standing by her daughter against all odds? Lifetime movie tried that, was no good
- Amanda rotting in prison? No, then movie would have to deal with incriminating evidence
- Amanda herself? PR machine has her as a "painted doll". Movie with Amanda going to prison mass?
- Could they have a Colin Firth as a reporter uncovering Perugia conspiracies?
- "Unless they wanted to portray the REAL Amanda, warts and all? I do think there could be quite a compelling portrayal of the initial behavior, the lying, the family tensions, her downward arc in Perugia, and the final unbelievable acquittal. Hitchcock could do it - think of Marnie, or Vertigo."
- Nope. The "cashing in" will be done with interviews, not blockbusters

Comments are not that bad. Some comments try to equate this case with some previous film they've seen.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Dougm » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:25 pm

Why do you repost the silly stuff that TJMK has already posted? 1 -- It is not worthy of being reposted elsewhere, and 2) Anyone can read it over there is they want to (although most choose to avoid it to keep thier lunch down).

I just don't see the point of reposting this tripe. It gives it more attention and a larger audience that it deserves.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:34 pm

Dougm wrote:Why do you repost the silly stuff that TJMK has already posted? 1 -- It is not worthy of being reposted elsewhere, and 2) Anyone can read it over there is they want to (although most choose to avoid it to keep thier lunch down).

I just don't see the point of reposting this tripe. It gives it more attention and a larger audience that it deserves.


All good questions. For me, it helps in understanding the nature of the case. Aside from the PMF website, the TJMF site is a major source of information which claims to support guilt, despite the evidence.

I also could not get onto the TJMK site itself until recently. I do not believe my views on the case would get a fair hearing there, so dialogue there seems pointless. My untested bias. I do not wish to test it over there.

Some of the stuff, in my opinion, deserves larger attention in that it tends to demonstrate how incredibly biased folk there are against the person of Amanda. It's as if, to me, the evidence does not matter. It's important for ALL to see that dynamic, so that people who don't know the history of this case can decide for themselves.

My 2 cents.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby ScifiTom » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:36 pm

To Bill

Bill I really belive your in the wrong place, because AK & RS is already free and there was no point on them of through this mess. So Billy boy, please pack up your bags because I an't buying it. I know AK is free and I am glad she home sweet home in america and that is were she belong and the faith had won the victory to keep it alive and her freedom. So in other type of phrase of my own style: I cheat, I steal, I lied and welcome to my world!!!

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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Teddy » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:55 pm

ScifiTom wrote:To Bill

Bill I really belive your in the wrong place, because AK & RS is already free and there was no point on them of through this mess. So Billy boy, please pack up your bags because I an't buying it. I know AK is free and I am glad she home sweet home in america and that is were she belong and the faith had won the victory to keep it alive and her freedom. So in other type of phrase of my own style: I cheat, I steal, I lied and welcome to my world!!!

From Tom

Tom, I think you've misunderstood Bill. :!:
Amanda Knox: "According to Mignini, we found Meredith at the villa and said, Hey, that stupid bitch. Let’s show Meredith. Let’s get her to play a sex game. I was horrified. Who thinks like that?".... indeed, who thinks like that?
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Jstanz » Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:25 am

I'm interested in reading what's going on at PMF and TJMK - it helps me prepare to answer questions from people looking for information. Often, they are caught up in what's going on there and it helps if I know myself.....I go to PMF myself but don't have time to keep up with TJMK as well.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby tabjustice » Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:35 am

I think you're right, Newcomer.

Bill is relatively new here and is understandably asking questions that many here have already found answers to. I wouldn't discourage those who've only just found this site to stop asking those questions: the facts will help them better understand why the appeals succeeded.

I'm rather enjoying watching the wheels turn as those new to the case sort through the many missteps of the police and prosecution and weigh the strength of the evidence based on facts rather than media sound-bites. It's encouraging to see people reasoning for themselves: it's what ultimately freed Amanda and Raffaele, after all.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Bill Williams » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:26 am

The idea for this thread was when I made a point-form list of the latest posting at the TJMK site on another thread here at IIP. A poster proceeded to discount the points, point by point. It demonstrated that the only way to believe in AK's and RS's guilt is to rely on old, substandard evidence since refuted, or some of the outright myths of the case.

For instance there is heavy mention pn the TJMK site of the motive for the Knox family to use a PR firm, as if the Knoxes had vindictively gone out to skew the public record and secure book deals. There is no mention over at TJMF of the abuses of the Tabloid press which created the circus atmosphere - even Barbie Nadeau admits to, early on, being the conduit for misinformation leaked by the prosecution before ANY evidence had been collected.

I have found the TJMK postings to be voluminous - and to someone else it might appear "truthful" simply because of the length of the post. I find breaking it down to the main points exposes the actual points being made.

Strangely, one post admits that the Knox PR "machine" had no effect on the appeal verdict. One must be willing to give credit where it is due. I am not out to slag the TJMF website, just post here in point form so it is easy for them to have their say without the bafflegab.

I hope. Please let's keep it civil here.

As for what I believe about the AK & RS situation, you can read my other posts in threads like, ASSORTED FORENSIC POINTS.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby kindlekitten » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:27 am

I like having them here. I don't want to go to those wicked poisonous sites. keep it up!
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby JasonH » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:15 am

Over at PMJ they are having a Prolonged discussion on Amanda's "Alleged" dress size...Not seeing the forest because of all the trees..Will these folks every come to term's with their obsession..It's not with poor Meredith that's for sure.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Jstanz » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:52 am

Bill Williams wrote:The idea for this thread was when I made a point-form list of the latest posting at the TJMK site on another thread here at IIP. A poster proceeded to discount the points, point by point. It demonstrated that the only way to believe in AK's and RS's guilt is to rely on old, substandard evidence since refuted, or some of the outright myths of the case.

For instance there is heavy mention pn the TJMK site of the motive for the Knox family to use a PR firm, as if the Knoxes had vindictively gone out to skew the public record and secure book deals. There is no mention over at TJMF of the abuses of the Tabloid press which created the circus atmosphere - even Barbie Nadeau admits to, early on, being the conduit for misinformation leaked by the prosecution before ANY evidence had been collected.

I have found the TJMK postings to be voluminous - and to someone else it might appear "truthful" simply because of the length of the post. I find breaking it down to the main points exposes the actual points being made.

Strangely, one post admits that the Knox PR "machine" had no effect on the appeal verdict. One must be willing to give credit where it is due. I am not out to slag the TJMF website, just post here in point form so it is easy for them to have their say without the bafflegab.

I hope. Please let's keep it civil here.

As for what I believe about the AK & RS situation, you can read my other posts in threads like, ASSORTED FORENSIC POINTS.


Bill - is anyone attempting to break these points down over there? (TJMK) Also, ScifiTom misunderstood you, I think.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby ScifiTom » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:01 am

To everyone

Ok Maybe I misunderstood of what Bill, said. But should we bring this information because like Doug said your in the wrong place, and I know that I made the mistake and I am sorry of my misunderstood. But I really agree with Doug of what he said, and that is were I am standing!!!

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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Bill Williams » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:15 am

ScifiTom wrote:To everyone

Ok Maybe I misunderstood of what Bill, said. But should we bring this information because like Doug said your in the wrong place, and I know that I made the mistake and I am sorry of my misunderstood. But I really agree with Doug of what he said, and that is were I am standing!!!

From Tom


To each his own and I am not discounting what your feelings are. However, NO ONE is discounting these points on the TJMK page, as another poster mentioned upstream. They are being posted unchallenged at the TJMK site.

For now, I'll keep posting this in the hopes that someone WILL go through them point by point.

I would also hope that if the TJMK site got something right, that this would be acknowledged in the spirit of fair mindedness.

This thread is not meant for mudslinging - it is for assessing what is said based on the proper evidence.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby tabjustice » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:48 am

I respect what you want to accomplish here, Bill. On the other hand, Tom is right about this not being the right forum for addressing "guilter" talking points -- those really belong in the Public Forum.

"Sunshine is the best disinfectant." ;)

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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Grayhawker » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:30 pm

The point about "making out" brings to mind something totally different than what I have seen in the short video clip. I thought we would see something really hot.

Making out to me speaks of tonsil hockey, tongue swollowing, sucking face!!! It was disappointing to see a little arm rubbing, 4-5 hen pecks, and then the two turning toward the house(?) with out any look of lust. It was BORING!! I expected more from young 20-year olds.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Dougm » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:38 pm

Bill Williams wrote:
Dougm wrote:Why do you repost the silly stuff that TJMK has already posted? 1 -- It is not worthy of being reposted elsewhere, and 2) Anyone can read it over there is they want to (although most choose to avoid it to keep thier lunch down).

I just don't see the point of reposting this tripe. It gives it more attention and a larger audience that it deserves.


All good questions. For me, it helps in understanding the nature of the case. Aside from the PMF website, the TJMF site is a major source of information which claims to support guilt, despite the evidence.

I also could not get onto the TJMK site itself until recently. I do not believe my views on the case would get a fair hearing there, so dialogue there seems pointless. My untested bias. I do not wish to test it over there.

Some of the stuff, in my opinion, deserves larger attention in that it tends to demonstrate how incredibly biased folk there are against the person of Amanda. It's as if, to me, the evidence does not matter. It's important for ALL to see that dynamic, so that people who don't know the history of this case can decide for themselves.

My 2 cents.


Makes more sense now. If people like it, that is OK. I have just been thinking recently that this hateful stuff is getting less attention now that Amanda and Raff have been acquitted, and I was not sure we want to give it more of a spotlight than it deserves. But if people like it here, on a member thread, I certainly think the PFM and TJMK stuff needs to be refuted (not that it is difficult!). TJMK, in particular, is delusional.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Dougm » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:42 pm

Bill Williams wrote:
ScifiTom wrote:To everyone

Ok Maybe I misunderstood of what Bill, said. But should we bring this information because like Doug said your in the wrong place, and I know that I made the mistake and I am sorry of my misunderstood. But I really agree with Doug of what he said, and that is were I am standing!!!

From Tom


To each his own and I am not discounting what your feelings are. However, NO ONE is discounting these points on the TJMK page, as another poster mentioned upstream. They are being posted unchallenged at the TJMK site.

For now, I'll keep posting this in the hopes that someone WILL go through them point by point.

I would also hope that if the TJMK site got something right, that this would be acknowledged in the spirit of fair mindedness.

This thread is not meant for mudslinging - it is for assessing what is said based on the proper evidence.


I bit more of my opinion, FWIW. I have no problem with refuting guilter talking points, since they need to be refuted. But I would not like the public forum to be a place where we repost the strange stuff that TJMK and PMF post in it's entirety, because it is false information, and putting in verbatim on the public forum is like reposting that tripe to a larger audience.

I realize that is not what you are doing here. I agree that having this thread can be a good thing to refute the false stuff that they post.

Thanks!
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby ScifiTom » Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:48 pm

tabjustice wrote:I respect what you want to accomplish here, Bill. On the other hand, Tom is right about this not being the right forum for addressing "guilter" talking points -- those really belong in the Public Forum.

"Sunshine is the best disinfectant." ;)

Hey, I just found a good tagline! Who knows how to attach those automatically?


To Tabjustice

Thanks Tabjustice, even I only wanted it into the Public Forum, and I don't mind of what Bill do in anyterm. It does belong in that forum and P S you are also right of good tagline, because even it attach to automatically??? But like I also would say it is attach to entertainment, of a style I would use into my own blog!!!

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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Dougm » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:22 pm

Grayhawker wrote:The point about "making out" brings to mind something totally different than what I have seen in the short video clip. I thought we would see something really hot.

Making out to me speaks of tonsil hockey, tongue swollowing, sucking face!!! It was disappointing to see a little arm rubbing, 4-5 hen pecks, and then the two turning toward the house(?) with out any look of lust. It was BORING!! I expected more from young 20-year olds.


That video is a perfect example of how the facts of this case were twisted from day one. Do you see anything at all wrong with that video? I see two young people who are comforting each other. They happen to do it with some soft short kisses instead of just holding or something, but so what? Like you said, it is not like they are making out or something.

They look shocked to me.
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Today over at the TJMK website - 14 Oct 2011

Postby Bill Williams » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:46 pm

TODAY AT THE TJMK WEBSITE - 14 Oct 2011

- John Kercher to publish "Meredith" with London-based publishers Hodder and Stoughton
- very competitive bidding took place at the Frankfurt Book Fair
- published in hardback in April 2012
- a father’s story of losing his daughter, a celebration of her life
- account of Kercher family in the four years of the prosecution
- Kercher will "talk for the first time" about the case
- Kercher has written two previous books
- proceeds from “Merdith” toward an "Italian remembrance of Meredith" to be announced

There are images of the publisher's building as well as the Frankfort Book fair
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website - 14 Oct 2011

Postby GeofferyLebowski » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:15 am

Bill Williams wrote:TODAY AT THE TJMK WEBSITE - 14 Oct 2011

- John Kercher to publish "Meredith" with London-based publishers Hodder and Stoughton
- very competitive bidding took place at the Frankfurt Book Fair
- published in hardback in April 2012
- a father’s story of losing his daughter, a celebration of her life
- account of Kercher family in the four years of the prosecution
- Kercher will "talk for the first time" about the case
- Kercher has written two previous books
- proceeds from “Merdith” toward an "Italian remembrance of Meredith" to be announced

There are images of the publisher's building as well as the Frankfort Book fair


Not wanting to pour cold water on this, but I think everybody already knows John Kercher's views on the case. Views which have recently and dramatically been overturned by the same Italian court in which he expressed such faith when it convicted Amanda.

And what exactly is there to say about poor Meredith that anyone outside friends or family would be interested in? It's a terrible personal tragedy but no different to one of thousands that happen every year.

He will also need to be very mindful of libel laws given the unequivocal acquittal of those he believes responsible for her murder. Will he mention Rudy Guede's role at all or ignore him as he has done so far?

I think this book is a mistake. I don't see how it can succeed commercially. I also hope it doesn't promulgate the kind of lies and hatred we've seen perpetrated against Amanda and Raffaele for the last four years.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website - 14 Oct 2011

Postby Bill Williams » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:14 pm

GeofferyLebowski wrote:He will also need to be very mindful of libel laws given the unequivocal acquittal of those he believes responsible for her murder. Will he mention Rudy Guede's role at all or ignore him as he has done so far?

I think this book is a mistake. I don't see how it can succeed commercially. I also hope it doesn't promulgate the kind of lies and hatred we've seen perpetrated against Amanda and Raffaele for the last four years.


You may be right. Yet if it was a Knox lawsuit againt Kercher, that would be the ultimate in the victims of the case squaring off against each other. Like a guy who cheats on his wife telling his girlfriend that he's unmarried, both wife and girlfriend eventually have to get around to acknowledging that they are on the same side of the fence, really.

That's a HUGE hurdle to overcome, obviously.

As far as the TJMK site is concerned, one general comment:

It's really one person who chooses to print "front page stories", some written by whoever it is who runs it, other pieces written by people who obviously agree with the owner. Comments are allowed, but I get the feeling that comments which are strongly tainted by innocence for AK and RS get deleted. Either that or not posted.

It's why I like it here. There is not 100% agreement - and people tend to argue it out here, with only a few lapses into namecalling.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby erasmus44 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:33 pm

I would not be surprised if the Kerchers' views on the case have been very much shaped by communications from their lawyer Maresca who, as I understand it, was referred to them by Mignini. So, to some extent, they too are victims of the prosector's disinformation campaign. Perhaps, they will start doing some reading and begin to question the lies they have been fed. I would not give up on them.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Bill Williams » Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:14 pm

BARBIE NADEAU at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgnw9EM_qbg

This is what Barbie Nadeau says on this pre-acquital YouTube piece, claimed to be "TheDailyBeastVideo"

- it's easy to write a murder story about sex, lies, and drugs
- "The true story of student killer Amanda Knox"
- This case is complex, it is in a college town with wealthy Italians, party town with international students
- "I am the only American to have covered this at this depth"
- The reason American journalism did not see Amanda or Raffaele as guilty was they weren't there
- In the Nov 2 - 6 (pre-arrest) period, AK herself was a source for journalists, one of the few to stay around
- In that period, she and RS did not show much emotion, even skipped MK memorial service to buy lingerie
- The double DNA knife was presented in court
- 5 spots of blood in house that contained AK's DNA or blood and MK's DNA
- evidence of staged break in, meaning AK was at least part of a cover-up or clean-up
- defence made an error in not coaching AK how to act, she smiled at cameras, "made a mockery of courtroom"
- "The Italian press painted a brutal portrayal of AK even before any evidence came out"
- "Italian culture is judgmental about foreigners, esp. Americans who seem above the rules"
- "Italians judged her before knowing all the evidence", and more so after knowing evidence
- AK's 26 year sentence caused her distress, losing hair, losing weight, still studying through correspondence
- were mistakes made by scientific police especially
- "If the police had not made one mistake, you'd still have the same verdict," just less controversy
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby stegosaur » Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:47 pm

There are many questions to answer, if you believe Amanda Knox is innocent. I'm sure you will all have gone over them many times and have your answers well-rehearsed.

I don't accuse her of murder. I have no idea what really happened. But the record seems to show that AK and RS lied about their behaviour both before and after the murder. (For instance - when did they actually phone the police? Was it after the postal police had surprised them at the house? If so, why did they claim to have already made the call?)

I'm also intrigued by the suggestion that when the postal police arrived the washing machine was still running, and that most of the clothes in it belonged to the (already dead) Meredith Kercher. This starts to make my spine shiver a little when the name Amanda Knox is mentioned, but I may well be wrong.

You might have the basic courtesy to acknowledge that other websites aren't just there to slander your darling. They might just be concerned with justice for someone horribly murdered.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Teddy » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:00 pm

Wow stegasaur you've just mentioned 2 things that have already been shown to be false so many times!

Massei in his motivations report recognizes that RS phoned the police before the postal police arrived. This is a known and proven fact.

The washing machine was not running when they all arrived.

Come on, you can do better than that, can't you?
Amanda Knox: "According to Mignini, we found Meredith at the villa and said, Hey, that stupid bitch. Let’s show Meredith. Let’s get her to play a sex game. I was horrified. Who thinks like that?".... indeed, who thinks like that?
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby stegosaur » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:05 pm

Newcomer

I've not seen anywhere that RS had already phoned the police - on the contrary, he SAID he'd done so but only phoned them after the postal police arrived.

I only recently discovered the washing machine info (I'm not an obsessive!) Is it or isn't it true that the washing machine was operated that day and contained mainly MK's clothes?
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Teddy » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:07 pm

Read the Massei Motivations report !!
See what it says about when RS called the police.
Read what it says about washing machines being turned on (if anything is said at all!).
Stop reading comments on blog articles posted on the Internet - they are full of hearsay. From your few posts here I can see that you've come here quoting all the lies that have been commonly spread on the net. That's all they are. They are not facts. Many of these things were not even mentioned in court.
Amanda Knox: "According to Mignini, we found Meredith at the villa and said, Hey, that stupid bitch. Let’s show Meredith. Let’s get her to play a sex game. I was horrified. Who thinks like that?".... indeed, who thinks like that?
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby tabjustice » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:12 pm

Stegasaur: if you want to debate guilt/innocence, please make your comments in the Public Forum.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Bill Williams » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:19 pm

tabjustice wrote:Stegasaur: if you want to debate guilt/innocence, please make your comments in the Public Forum.


Yes, this thread is about what is being reported on other websites.

Stegasaur wrote:You might have the basic courtesy to acknowledge that other websites aren't just there to slander your darling. They might just be concerned with justice for someone horribly murdered.

I don't know of ANYONE who doesn't want that!

I'm particularly alerted to the use of the word, "darling". For myself, I have proven on this site that no one is "my darling", as I have taken a fairly unpopular view here about the one conviction of AK's that WAS upheld at appeal.

My motivation for this thread is because I note a general absence of "weasel words" here (well, with the exception of references to Mignini!), however the foundation of the pro-guilt websites is, in fact, weasel words, as if calling someone names establishes guilt or innocence.

Please keep this thread on the issues reported on other websites, particularly post Oct 3.

My goal is to be fair, to give credit where it is due, as well as pass on the weasel words that have driven/masked the investigation since, as Nadeau (a guilt supporter) put it, "The Italian press painted a brutal portrayal of AK even before any evidence came out".

And they have the gall to criticize the Knox's for eventually engaging a PR machine!
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby stegosaur » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:52 pm

Bill Williams

I have no quarrel with you

But AK and RS were found guilty and given long sentences.

Clearly, if they were innocent this was a terrible miscarriage of justice and their release on appeal is a mercy.

But AK's parents did employ a PR firm, and RS's parents tried to influence the court.

Since they were initially convicted, I don't see why a site claiming their guilt attracts criticism for claiming that they were guilty.

I don't honestly think that this site is concerned with justice for Meredith Kercher, beyond bland assertions that Guede killed her, acting alone. It exists to acclaim Amanda Knox as innocent. I'm not at all sure that the evidence supports this.

I don't find Amanda Knox's reported behaviour, and accounts of her behaviour, at all suggestive of innocence. The same goes for Rafaelle Sollecito. (Sorry if I've misspelled anyone!)

What do I know? I'm just your average idiot. But from what I've read (admittedly on a site you'd regard as hostile) there are some pertinent questions which remain unanswered.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Bill Williams » Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:02 pm

stegosaur wrote:Bill Williams

I have no quarrel with you

But AK and RS were found guilty and given long sentences.

Clearly, if they were innocent this was a terrible miscarriage of justice and their release on appeal is a mercy.

But AK's parents did employ a PR firm, and RS's parents tried to influence the court.

Since they were initially convicted, I don't see why a site claiming their guilt attracts criticism for claiming that they were guilty.

I don't honestly think that this site is concerned with justice for Meredith Kercher, beyond bland assertions that Guede killed her, acting alone. It exists to acclaim Amanda Knox as innocent. I'm not at all sure that the evidence supports this.

I don't find Amanda Knox's reported behaviour, and accounts of her behaviour, at all suggestive of innocence. The same goes for Rafaelle Sollecito. (Sorry if I've misspelled anyone!)

What do I know? I'm just your average idiot. But from what I've read (admittedly on a site you'd regard as hostile) there are some pertinent questions which remain unanswered.

As per request - my answer will be on the public forum thread......
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website - 14 Oct 2011

Postby Jstanz » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:07 pm

Bill Williams wrote:TODAY AT THE TJMK WEBSITE - 14 Oct 2011

- John Kercher to publish "Meredith" with London-based publishers Hodder and Stoughton
- very competitive bidding took place at the Frankfurt Book Fair
- published in hardback in April 2012
- a father’s story of losing his daughter, a celebration of her life
- account of Kercher family in the four years of the prosecution
- Kercher will "talk for the first time" about the case
- Kercher has written two previous books
- proceeds from “Merdith” toward an "Italian remembrance of Meredith" to be announced

There are images of the publisher's building as well as the Frankfort Book fair


The thing about this is that women are brutally raped and murdered every day and no one is interested in buying a book about their story. The only reason J Kercher has a option for a book deal is because of what was done to Amanda Knox. The only reason people are going to buy Meredith's book is because of what was done to Amanda Knox. It's sad to say but if they hadn't gone after Amanda Knox not many people would be interested in reading J Kercher's book. He should be thanking Amanda Knox that he has the opportunity to make a million bucks off of Meredith's death.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Jstanz » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:09 pm

erasmus44 wrote:I would not be surprised if the Kerchers' views on the case have been very much shaped by communications from their lawyer Maresca who, as I understand it, was referred to them by Mignini. So, to some extent, they too are victims of the prosector's disinformation campaign. Perhaps, they will start doing some reading and begin to question the lies they have been fed. I would not give up on them.


They need to get rid of Maresca - who I would bet is even now telling them to let it be, I'm sure he doesn't want them opening a new investigation. Hire an independent lawyer from the UK to look into things. They will then find the truth.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby stegosaur » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:32 pm

Jstanz
________________________________________

The thing about this is that women are brutally raped and murdered every day and no one is interested in buying a book about their story. The only reason J Kercher has a option for a book deal is because of what was done to Amanda Knox. The only reason people are going to buy Meredith's book is because of what was done to Amanda Knox. It's sad to say but if they hadn't gone after Amanda Knox not many people would be interested in reading J Kercher's book. He should be thanking Amanda Knox that he has the opportunity to make a million bucks off of Meredith's death.
____________________________________________________________
The only reason people are going to buy Meredith's book is because of what was done to Amanda Knox
----------------------------------------
(as if Amanda Knox was the victim here)

Right. So someone's trying to profit from 'what was done to Amanda Knox'. Hang about - this is the father of a woman who was murdered.

'He should be thanking Amanda Knox that he has the opportunity to make a million bucks off of Meredith's death.'

I won't even comment on this. If none of you object to obscene reversal like this, I rest my case.

Actually, I think I'll copy and paste for wider distribution.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Jstanz » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:49 pm

stegosaur wrote:Jstanz
________________________________________

The thing about this is that women are brutally raped and murdered every day and no one is interested in buying a book about their story. The only reason J Kercher has a option for a book deal is because of what was done to Amanda Knox. The only reason people are going to buy Meredith's book is because of what was done to Amanda Knox. It's sad to say but if they hadn't gone after Amanda Knox not many people would be interested in reading J Kercher's book. He should be thanking Amanda Knox that he has the opportunity to make a million bucks off of Meredith's death.
____________________________________________________________
The only reason people are going to buy Meredith's book is because of what was done to Amanda Knox
----------------------------------------
(as if Amanda Knox was the victim here)

Right. So someone's trying to profit from 'what was done to Amanda Knox'. Hang about - this is the father of a woman who was murdered.

'He should be thanking Amanda Knox that he has the opportunity to make a million bucks off of Meredith's death.'

I won't even comment on this. If none of you object to obscene reversal like this, I rest my case.

Actually, I think I'll copy and paste for wider distribution.


I've answered you in the public forum.
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Monday, 17 Oct 2011 - TJMK site

Postby Bill Williams » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:27 am

THE TJMK WEBSITE - 17 OCT 2011

The following post on the TJMK website shows the silliness with which it deals with things - this is a tragic, horrible murder of an innocent, and two other innocents spent four years in jail, and this is the standard of reasoning of guilters. It first asks a question, leading the reader to assume that the author has an answer in the affirmative, then it denies that what it is teasing us with happened.

Why is the TJMK website wasting bandwidth on what it teases the reader with? Was there a consipracy in Italy regarding the release of AK and RS? And it's answer is.......


PM Berlusconi Survives Italian Vote Of No Confidence: Did The Perugia Appeal Outcome Help?

Even some opposition MPS’s voted for Mr Berlusconi last Friday.

They consider him the only leader right now that might pull Italy out of the economic soup. His popularity polling was already down below 30% and his party’s position in the parliament very precarious.

.................

What connection might Mr Berlusconi’s predicament have to the outcome in Perugia? Well, for one thing, it was a small but vital victory for him against the Italian judiciary, with whom he is in the midst of a white hot war. It may well have helped him to survive that vote.

.................

and the TJMK website concludes, wait for it.................

Are we suggesting there was a US-Italian conspiracy to spring Sollecito and Knox at the end of the appeal and conveniently make the Perugia prosecutors look fools?

No, we really don’t believe in elaborate conspiracies here. But it is amazing what happens at higher levels with just a few winks and nods.

________________________________

First it suggests it IS a conspiracy and then denies suggesting it. Sigh.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Jstanz » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:45 am

I just saw the same contradicting of oneself over at PMF. Machine made the comment: "This case clearly meets a number of Steve and Michelle Moore's needs. I believe they were having marital problems. This case helped them rediscover some common ground and focus their attention and energy on a common cause instead of their differences" and then after this comment from someone else "Speculation about the status of someone's marriage is not a road I want to go down." He turns right around and outright lies with this "I wasn't speculating that there had been marital problems; Michelle Moore made a comment about it".
Sure sounded to me like he was speculating....not to mention I saw nothing in his post about Michelle making that comment.

Another PMF today: "Was Massei completely wrong and what passed for logic was not logical to the Hellmann Court?"
Uh....yeah!!! How could anyone think Massei was logical? Seems to me that the Hellman Court used common sense.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Jstanz » Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:24 pm

PMF today:

There is a mention of the piece at The Root at the link below. It gives a focus on lies and evidence, via reader comments by 'Harry Rag' and 'Maurice'.

http://adeathinperugia.wordpress.com/20 ... -the-case/

And we are expected to find one or both of this couple [Knox/Sollecito] not guilty? Ho hum...NoPassingBy

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If any of our eloquent speakers care to take a look and refute. This on PMF today.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Bill Williams » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:39 pm

Jstanz wrote:PMF today:

There is a mention of the piece at The Root at the link below. It gives a focus on lies and evidence, via reader comments by 'Harry Rag' and 'Maurice'.

http://adeathinperugia.wordpress.com/20 ... -the-case/

If any of our eloquent speakers care to take a look and refute. This on PMF today.

I'm growing tired of these points circulating. But I'll choose one.....

An abundant amount of Raffaele Sollecito’s DNA was found on Meredith’s bra clasp. His DNA was identified by two separate DNA tests. Of the 17 loci tested in the sample, Sollecito’s profile matched 17 out of 17.

The bra-clasp is useless as evidence. Period. The handling of the bra-clasp was completely deficient, as investigators passed it from contaminated glove to contaminated glove. Also, photo's of the crime-room show that the bra-clasp was moved in the 40+ days between the time of the crime and when it was collected. That's right six-weeks of dust fell on the bra-clasp. I bet they could have found Mignini's DNA on it, given the low tolerance test they used.

For the prosecutors to claim "cased closed" BEFORE finding the bra-clasp, let alone having it analysed ranks as one of the best investigatory guesses since they accused Jack Ruby of killing Lee Harvey Oswald.

I was going to type another few paragraphs as to the "myth" of AK's and RS's changing alibis, but that is covered in better fashion on this very website.

I am surprised that the "A Death in Perugia" didn't cite the crime scene clean. as evidence. At least they are dropping that one - there was no clean, no receipts for bleach, nothing, nada.

Others can deal with the other stuff on the cited page.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Bill Williams » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:42 pm

The following is an attempt on the TJMK website to answer a newbie's questions. What is interesting about this response it that it is 'fairminded', and something that one CAN argue with. It is not a 'she did it and that settles it' type of post. It actually tries to deal with evidence. However, I will give my own responses here in a subseqent post to Today At the TJMK Site thread.

TODAY AT THE TJMK WEBSITE - 18 OCT 2011

1. At what point did AK and RS stop being an item or girl friend, boy friend and who broke it off?

Once Sollecito was taken into custody, in his statements and conversations with his dad, expressed a lot of anger toward Knox. I have no reason to believe that animosity was not genuine. The Sollecito defense—until Sollecito’s final statement in the appeal—always left open the possibility that Knox acted alone. I don’t believe the stories that Knox and Sollecito genuinely wrote letters to each other in prison, and I don’t believe their courtroom displays of affection. That was all for the benefit of the jury and the public.

2. The judge’s report states that he felt Meredith was restrained by other parties. He concluded this due to a lack of wounds inflicted on her arms as she tried to protect herself. If other parties were holding her arms and or wrists down, then should there not have been traces of DNA on Meredith’s wrists belonging to those people doing the holding down? Was that ever found?

Guede’s DNA was on Meredith’s left jacket sleeve. I actually agree with IJP that the stabbing occurred fairly quickly. I believe Meredith was held hostage for a considerable period of time just through force of intimidation. I doubt they could have tested her neck for DNA because there was so much blood.

3. The judge reported that mixed blood belonging to AK and Meredith was found. Were AK and RS ever checked for cuts to their arms, where did they blood from AK come from? I have seen on the site there is a photo showing a graze or mark under the chin, would that have been enough, it doesn’t look like a deep cut more a graze.

Judge Massei actually said that there was not enough evidence of “mixed blood”, only Knox’s DNA mixed with Meredith’s blood. I agree. Knox’s DNA was of course on her hands, in her bathroom, and in her bedroom. I think a sponge or washcloth that was used to clean up blood in those areas was carried into Filomena’s room and left the mixed DNA spot. I agree with Massei that Knox’s blood on the faucet looks older and may have nothing to do with the crime.

4. Was the mop and bucket ever recovered and tested; surely it would have contained some blood traces?

The mop and bucket were tested and revealed nothing. I believe this was just a ruse. If you look at the crime scene video, the mop is actually very cheap quality and wouldn’t have been worth hauling across town. What is interesting is that both Sollecito and Knox said she took a bag “for laundry” to the cottage. That is very suspicious to me.

5. Was the washing in the washing machine in RS’s flat ever checked for blood samples. What was the washing?

As I recall washing machines at both places were checked for blood and nothing was found. My suspicion is that the machine at the cottage was used to wash items that were used in the crime but were not thoroughly soaked in blood. For example, towels that the killers used after showering. Knox’s and Meredith’s towels were both found in the machine; Knox said she didn’t put them there. Items that were soaked in blood were left in the room, or destroyed.

6. The supermarket owner says he doesn’t know if AK bought something or not although he says he thinks he saw her. Were his till receipts ever checked for purchases around the 07:45 time he quoted?

Quintaville’s testimony is problematic because he didn’t come forward until a year later. Presumably it was not possible to check till receipts for a specific date and time over a year previously. In any event he said Knox was in the store for only a minute or so, so if she got something it’s unlikely she paid for it. I actually do believe Quintaville’s story because it fits well with the timeline, and Massei found him credible.

7. When there was such unanimity in the first trial, how is that the appeal seems so easily to have dismissed any involvement of AK and RS? The idea that one person could have wielded two knives, held Meredith down and sexually assorted her all at the same time seems to me at least impossible. What was it that skewed the jury’s thinking to forget all of these sorts of facts and set the pair free?

No idea.

A. Another point that has often baffled me was surely blood must have got onto Knox’s and Sollecito’s clothes - how was this washed off - it seems to be that they were in their bare feet - luminol traces - could they both have been naked?

I don’t think they were naked during the murder. What would be the point? I think it is very likely that they were in their underwear or naked during part of the clean up. That’s the best way make sure you don’t get your clothes dirty after all.

B. The question of the thrown away mobile phones. Meredith apparently made a call to her bank around 10pm - if my understanding is right - but why would anyone try to phone a bank at 10pm - had she some kind of telephone bank system - this is a grey area that I can’t find explained. Were the phones ever checked for prints? Could this not have been another party, who having got hold of the phones, mistakenly or otherwise phoned the bank?

My theory is that Meredith called the bank while she was trying to call for help. It was the first number in her phone. I can think of no plausible reason why the killers would play around with one of the victim’s phone after the murder. The phones appeared to have been wiped. There were only partial prints.

C. Meredith’s scream at 11pm - this is contested - injustice in perugia claims the distance involved was too great for a scream to have been heard by the woman - what exactly is the distance involved - surely someone has done some research on this.

How can IJP know that the distance is too great if they didn’t test it. Paul Ciolino had some guys run down the road while he listened from an apartment in the same building as Nara Capezzali and claimed he could barely hear them. That’s hardly conclusive. Her apartment is just 70 meters from the cottage. The area is shaped like an amphitheater. How could she not hear a blood curdling scream? The defense tried to get an independent audiologist’s report. Judge Hellmann didn’t allow it, and given what happened with the C-V report that’s probably a good thing. Ultimately they just took to disparaging her as “that incontinent old lady” and the jury apparently bought it.

D. The injustice site also claim that Sollecito’s subsequent denial of Knox having spent the entire night with him came about after Police persuaded him that if he was fast asleep how could he be so sure she was with him - hense his claim that she was gone for a few hours - this is extremely important to know - I can find plenty of references to Knox’s statements - but nothing for Sollecito.

Here’s Sollecito’s interview with the Daily Mirror from November 3: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sunday-mirror/2 ... -20058122/

Here’s his statement to police on November 5: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -case.html

Does he say *anywhere* that he “was fast asleep so how could he be sure”?
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Bill Williams » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:20 pm

1. At what point did AK and RS stop being an item or girl friend, boy friend and who broke it off?

Once Sollecito was taken into custody, in his statements and conversations with his dad, expressed a lot of anger toward Knox. I have no reason to believe that animosity was not genuine. The Sollecito defense—until Sollecito’s final statement in the appeal—always left open the possibility that Knox acted alone. I don’t believe the stories that Knox and Sollecito genuinely wrote letters to each other in prison, and I don’t believe their courtroom displays of affection. That was all for the benefit of the jury and the public.

What possible value does this line of inquiry have? It is based on sallacious gossip - the status of AK's and RS's relationship could result from any one of a number of items, most of which are personal to them and under the tremendous tabloid microscope. How could ANY of us draw conclusions unless we've ever been the subject of mass-media gossip columning?

This is a waste of electrons on a website, and the answerer should have drawn that to the newbie's attention.

2. The judge’s report states that he felt Meredith was restrained by other parties. He concluded this due to a lack of wounds inflicted on her arms as she tried to protect herself. If other parties were holding her arms and or wrists down, then should there not have been traces of DNA on Meredith’s wrists belonging to those people doing the holding down? Was that ever found?

Guede’s DNA was on Meredith’s left jacket sleeve. I actually agree with IJP that the stabbing occurred fairly quickly. I believe Meredith was held hostage for a considerable period of time just through force of intimidation. I doubt they could have tested her neck for DNA because there was so much blood.

This is the clearest explication I have ever heard rejecting the need for multiple attackers - and direct from the TJMK website! Rather than speculating about what the lack of defensive wounds really means, Occam's Razor (ie. the simplest explanation) suggests that MK was held at bay mainly through force of intimidation, and perhaps even assurances that if she co-operated then she would be all right. Once it esculated into a stabbing, there was plenty of opportunity for an attacker to do futher damage from both sides.

3. The judge reported that mixed blood belonging to AK and Meredith was found. Were AK and RS ever checked for cuts to their arms, where did they blood from AK come from? I have seen on the site there is a photo showing a graze or mark under the chin, would that have been enough, it doesn’t look like a deep cut more a graze.

Judge Massei actually said that there was not enough evidence of “mixed blood”, only Knox’s DNA mixed with Meredith’s blood. I agree. Knox’s DNA was of course on her hands, in her bathroom, and in her bedroom. I think a sponge or washcloth that was used to clean up blood in those areas was carried into Filomena’s room and left the mixed DNA spot. I agree with Massei that Knox’s blood on the faucet looks older and may have nothing to do with the crime.

Yet, guilters still repeat that AK's "blood-DNA" was found mixed with MK's blood-DNA, thanks should go to this poster for not being one of them. Yet, instead of a "bleach-crime-scene-clean" the poster hypothesizes a "sponge or washcloth" clean. There are two problems with this hypothesis - there is not a stick of evidence that it ever took place: and second, if tried it could not have masked all the evidence it was supposedly to clean up. No residue of a non-bleach clean was ever found, and that is highly unlikely to the point of absurdity. Luminol would have detected a bleach-clean.

The poster actually is undercutting his #6 answer about Quintaville - he says he believes Quintaville, but his answer to the newbie here suggests no need for AK to have visited the store in the first place!

Using circular reasoning, the poster is telling the newbie that the evidence had been there, but the reason it is not there is because of a hypothesized clean-up for which there is no evidence of it ever taking place. Suddenly a negative plus a negative plus a negative is claimed to equal a positive.

4. Was the mop and bucket ever recovered and tested; surely it would have contained some blood traces?

The mop and bucket were tested and revealed nothing. I believe this was just a ruse. If you look at the crime scene video, the mop is actually very cheap quality and wouldn’t have been worth hauling across town. What is interesting is that both Sollecito and Knox said she took a bag “for laundry” to the cottage. That is very suspicious to me.

It would have been suspicious if there was any evidence of it. This is misleading to the newbie for reasons associated with #5 below.

5. Was the washing in the washing machine in RS’s flat ever checked for blood samples. What was the washing?

As I recall washing machines at both places were checked for blood and nothing was found. My suspicion is that the machine at the cottage was used to wash items that were used in the crime but were not thoroughly soaked in blood. For example, towels that the killers used after showering. Knox’s and Meredith’s towels were both found in the machine; Knox said she didn’t put them there. Items that were soaked in blood were left in the room, or destroyed.

This needs to be dealt with in reverse order to show how ludicrous the poster's reasoning is for the newbie. Items soaked in blood and left in the room ALL point to Guede and Guede alone. This assumes that the crime-scene-cleaner could tell which items needed to be left in the room, and which needed to be destroyed or washed. This means that VISUALLY AK or RS could tell which contained their own DNA and which contained Guede's DNA.

AK and RS needed to bring more than a mop, an electron microscope would have been handy.

But thankfully the poster acknowledges that the washing machines were checked and nothing was found. Thank you for that. Yet now the poster asks us to believe that AK or RS could visually discern how much blood could or could not be cleaned by an automatic washing machine, so as to not leave a trace afterwards.

6. The supermarket owner says he doesn’t know if AK bought something or not although he says he thinks he saw her. Were his till receipts ever checked for purchases around the 07:45 time he quoted?

Quintaville’s testimony is problematic because he didn’t come forward until a year later. Presumably it was not possible to check till receipts for a specific date and time over a year previously. In any event he said Knox was in the store for only a minute or so, so if she got something it’s unlikely she paid for it. I actually do believe Quintaville’s story because it fits well with the timeline, and Massei found him credible.

Thank you for admiting that Qunitville's testimony is problematic. Yet the poster now puts a wild surmise on top of this problematic testimony by suggesting that AK stole bleach. Why she'd need to do that is unclear given that there was bleach back at RS's flat. RS's cleaning lady had bought it.

Yet, the poster above has already said he believed the "clean" to have been done with ordinary water and cloths. So why is this imaginary visit to Quintaville's store important?

7. When there was such unanimity in the first trial, how is that the appeal seems so easily to have dismissed any involvement of AK and RS? The idea that one person could have wielded two knives, held Meredith down and sexually assorted her all at the same time seems to me at least impossible. What was it that skewed the jury’s thinking to forget all of these sorts of facts and set the pair free?

No idea.

Again, thank you for that. However, let me add that I do have an idea how. The DNA evidence on the bra-clasp and the double-DNA knife was proven at appeal to be worthless. There is simply no evidence remaining to put either RS or AK at the crime scene.

The poster misleads the newbie through silence. The poster must have known that Hellman based his decision on the rejected DNA-evidence? Why not at least make mention of this, so as to discount it? (Maybe it cannot be discounted?)

A. Another point that has often baffled me was surely blood must have got onto Knox’s and Sollecito’s clothes - how was this washed off - it seems to be that they were in their bare feet - luminol traces - could they both have been naked?

I don’t think they were naked during the murder. What would be the point? I think it is very likely that they were in their underwear or naked during part of the clean up. That’s the best way make sure you don’t get your clothes dirty after all.

How many surmises must be built upon surmises until Occam's Razor screams to be heard? The complete lack of forensics tying AK or RS to the crime scene is the alibi they have. The newbie is baffled by an incredibly important point. The answer from someone who starts by assuming AK's and RS's guilt goes off the rails into pure speculaiton - which itself rests upon other speculation.

But the newbie's point is well taken - Guede himself left a huge forensic presence at the scene. AK and RS left none. Guede's clothes and shoes were not available to the prosecution, since RG had fled to Germany and had (it is assumed) long since ditched his clothes and shoes. There is no evidence that any of RS's or AK's clothes or shoes were missing. All of AK's clothes were behind a police line back at the cottage. She even had to buy underwear in the days ahead!

B. The question of the thrown away mobile phones. Meredith apparently made a call to her bank around 10pm - if my understanding is right - but why would anyone try to phone a bank at 10pm - had she some kind of telephone bank system - this is a grey area that I can’t find explained. Were the phones ever checked for prints? Could this not have been another party, who having got hold of the phones, mistakenly or otherwise phoned the bank?

My theory is that Meredith called the bank while she was trying to call for help. It was the first number in her phone. I can think of no plausible reason why the killers would play around with one of the victim’s phone after the murder. The phones appeared to have been wiped. There were only partial prints.

The best theory is that MK was first assaulted around 9 pm after her call to her mother was abruptly terminated and no call-again was attempted. However, the poster actually does help the newbie by conceding that this item of inquiry leads nowhere.

C. Meredith’s scream at 11pm - this is contested - injustice in perugia claims the distance involved was too great for a scream to have been heard by the woman - what exactly is the distance involved - surely someone has done some research on this.

How can IJP know that the distance is too great if they didn’t test it. Paul Ciolino had some guys run down the road while he listened from an apartment in the same building as Nara Capezzali and claimed he could barely hear them. That’s hardly conclusive. Her apartment is just 70 meters from the cottage. The area is shaped like an amphitheater. How could she not hear a blood curdling scream? The defense tried to get an independent audiologist’s report. Judge Hellmann didn’t allow it, and given what happened with the C-V report that’s probably a good thing. Ultimately they just took to disparaging her as “that incontinent old lady” and the jury apparently bought it.

The poster is correct - how can IJP really know ANYTHING about this case, other than reasonable surmise? However, the newbie's question is a begged question - how does the newbie know that the scream "heard" at 11 pm was MK'ers? The begged question cuts both ways on this.

In lieu of claiming EITHER WAY what the scream means, when it was heard, who made it, and the believability of who heard it, other forensic stuff is far, far more compelling. Like MK's call cut off at 9 pm, and the lack of forensic presence for anyone other than Rudy Guede to begin with. So, what does the poster's answer to the newbie prove in relation to AK's and RS's guilt or innocence?

D. The injustice site also claim that Sollecito’s subsequent denial of Knox having spent the entire night with him came about after Police persuaded him that if he was fast asleep how could he be so sure she was with him - hense his claim that she was gone for a few hours - this is extremely important to know - I can find plenty of references to Knox’s statements - but nothing for Sollecito.

Here’s Sollecito’s interview with the Daily Mirror from November 3: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sunday-mirror/2 ... -20058122/

Here’s his statement to police on November 5: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -case.html

Does he say *anywhere* that he “was fast asleep so how could he be sure”?


Quotes filtered through media sources are highly questionable, esp. in the midst of the brewing tabloid storm which was blowing up agains AK and RS. The fact remains that the only way Sollecito could have known that AK was àway for hours`was if he`d been asleep....

But this begs another question - is not the guilter claim that RS was involved in the crime? Why would a guilter find meaning in ANYTHING RS said? The fact remains, the only doubt RS had as to AK's whereabouts on the night of Nov 1-2, was the one induced by the Reid Technique of interrogating. It was then a piece of information that the interrogators transferred to AK's room when they accused her of lying because, "after all, your boyfriend now says he does not know where you were."

Please, please, do not rely upon the media as sources of quotes from anyone.

Please also get your hypothesis straight - are you claiming that it was Guede and AK alone who did the deed? Or are you claiming also that RS was involved over at the cottage? If the latter, what possible credence could you put on to ANYTHING RS says to infer that AK could not be accounted for, for a couple of hours?
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Today at the TJMK website - 18 Oct 2011

Postby Bill Williams » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:12 pm

Written by a cousin of Steve Moore's the FBI agent who in his spare time investigated the Kercher murder.

TODAY AT THE TJMK WEBSITE - 19 OCT 2011

- Steve and Michelle have staked out such an extreme position (with accompanying behavior) even in light of Knox’s acquittal, that their actions will lead to disaster for themselves and/or others.
- I have no intention of disparaging you or debating Amanda Knox’s guilt or innocence
- I have no intention of including Michelle in this letter outside of two public incidents that concern me.
- I have to say that I am concerned about you
- Do you REALLY want Mignini, Patrizia Stefanoni, and Edgardo Giobbi prosecuted and Massei called to the bar for doing their jobs?
- Combining this with Michelle’s action toward Mignini in a foreign country’s court, I have to wonder what’s going on in your guys’ heads.
- Michelle cheered on Doug Bremner who accuses the people of this site (cf. TJMK site) of “pedophilic grooming”
- weird to think that my cousin’s wife was cheering someone calling me a pedophile.
- you are mudslinging as much as those you complain about
- why waste time on this one person (ie. Amanda Knox), "(does) she trump(s) Troy Davis who was most likely innocent and EXECUTED by the state of Georgia?"
- I'm at the TJMK site because I want the facts, and want to filter out the tabloid media stuff
- I know Peggy Ganong and she is NOT the bad person Bruce Fisher and Doug Bremner describe.
- In my mind, if they can be so wrong about Peggy, then I worry about what else they can be so wrong about and what they’ve gotten you involved in.
- I admire you if you are fighting for someone you truly believe is innocent, but is this the best way to get on TV?

Bill's response - In my view, this is part of the "tabloid stuff" that its author, Jeff Friend, claims he was tired of, which got him to the TJMK site for a rational discussion of the evidence. Is the evidence THIS WEAK against AK and RS that there needs to be front page postings at TJMK for a family spat between the Friend-Moore family?

Comments to this piece:

Sarcasm and personal attacks are the achilles heels of the pro-Knox movement, as Jeff is sensibly and fairly pointing out to Steve. The same message applies to Bruce Fischer and Doug Bremner who also publicly boil with rage. They will never persuade large numbers in that mode, and millions now need to be persuaded, or Knox wont ever have a peaceful life. They say Casey Anthony is hated and Knox loved but wheres the evidence of the love?

It reads like they are trying to salt a very slow market for the books, interviews, and films. I checked out who is behind the one known movie offer and he has several small ones in the pipeline but as of now he has never put a single movie out.
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Today at the TJMK website - 20 Oct 2011

Postby Bill Williams » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:16 pm

Maybe it is me, but the TJMK website is straying really far from the specifics of the AK or RS case.

Today at the TJMK website - 20 Oct 2011
The President Of The Italian Republic Lights A Small Fire Under The Prime Minister


- Italian President Giorgio Napolitano has expressed his frustration at his government’s failure to cope with the country’s worsening debt crisis.
- a Milan judge has decided not to indict him for tax fraud.
- Global stockmarkets are already awarding the pending Italian economic measures a small plus

What does this have to do with justice for Meredith Kercher!?!?!?! I mean, everyone wants that! People on differing sides of the AK/RS guilt/innocence issue may claim that "the other side" is not interested in true justice - but, what does Italian macro-politics have to do with Mignini blowing a prosecution?
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby tabjustice » Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:15 pm

It's part of the smear campaign against anyone who doesn't fully trust the wisdom of the prosecutor and the initial (flawed) decisions of the lower courts in Amanda and Raffaele's cases. Berlusconi is another one of the 'bad guys' because he is fighting a number of battles with the judiciary. The acquittals showed that prosecutors and judges are not perfect, and Berlusconi has made statements about the need for reform. Does it make him one of Amanda's evil minions, or have anything whatsoever to do with Meredith Kercher? Nope. Does that matter? Nope. Hate needs a home, I suppose.
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Today at the TJMK website - 21 Oct 2011

Postby Bill Williams » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:28 pm

I have just seen the title fo the latest TJMF website offering, and I have not yet read the article. But I admit to a growing bias here.... I will bet all the money in my pocket that the article following upon the title's introduction 'proves' its claim by building surmise upon surmise and vilifying the Knox's as a family. I promise to apologize if this is not the case. Honest.

Today at the TJMK website 21 Oct 2011
Who Is Behind Repeated Attempts To Make False Claims Of Kercher Suit Against Knox Go Viral?


- Jeanne Sager tweeted and posted “Delusional Kerchers Think Amanda Knox Owes Them $12 Million"
- somebody is trying to stimulate sympathy for AK, now that this sympathy is ebbing
- the UK's Sun paper published, then yanked this malicious claim against the Kerchers, so did Daily Mail
- Jeanne Sager of The Stir put the malicious claim on steroids with her post “Delusional Kerchers Think Amanda Knox Owes Them $12 Million”. "She added some shrill ugly opinions of her own."
- hundreds of hate comments on The Stir forced them to yank the claim as well
- but The Christian Post has now joined in in repeating this malicious claim

The comments to this piece at the TJMK page include:

- this campaign of misinformation suggests that Knox's parents are convinced of her guilt
- Mignini has said he believes Knox came very close to a confession in a suspect interview a few days after she was arrested. Her lawyer at the time shut her up (and soon after resigned).
- The Supreme Court suggested they believed so too when they noted how her parents hurriedly shushed Knox in a recorded exchange at Capanne Prison after she said “I was there”.
- Knox and Sollecito are both recorded as wondering if Meredith’s murder had been carried out by the other, suggesting they themselves (alone) were not there.
- Kerchers lead the way in selflessness and dignity
- PR machine is trying to make AK look like the victim

Ok, I admit it.... there were only a few 'proofs' offered as a 'this latest heavily suggests that....' line of reasoning.
It turns out that TJMK is pointing to Jeanne Sager - who is she? - and a tweet of hers.

The strange thing is that TJMK website misses a common dynamic here..... of how the Tabloid Press, not Amanda's PR machine, is fueling the fires here..... lessee, when did that happen before!?

So I apologize to TJMK website. They actually DID name who the believe is the originator of this story, and it is actually verifiable - did Jeanne Sager tweet this or not?

LARGER QUESTION ALERT - is "sympathy" for AK and RS waning, or is it symply dropping out of the notice of mainline press?
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Re: Today at the TJMK website - 21 Oct 2011

Postby geebee2 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:58 pm

Bill Williams wrote:
Today at the TJMK website 21 Oct 2011
Who Is Behind Repeated Attempts To Make False Claims Of Kercher Suit Against Knox Go Viral?




According to this video

http://global.christianpost.com/news/amanda-knox-to-be-sued-for-12m-by-meredith-kercher-family-video-58787/

it was a "family spokesman".

By the way: I don't seem to be able to post at TJMK any more. I think I made about one post, querying the staged break-in theory, and subsequently don't seem to be able to post there any more. Is this normal?
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Re: Today at the TJMK website - 21 Oct 2011

Postby Bill Williams » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:02 pm

geebee2 wrote:
Bill Williams wrote:
Today at the TJMK website 21 Oct 2011
Who Is Behind Repeated Attempts To Make False Claims Of Kercher Suit Against Knox Go Viral?




According to this video

http://global.christianpost.com/news/amanda-knox-to-be-sued-for-12m-by-meredith-kercher-family-video-58787/

it was a "family spokesman".

Note, though, that the question asked in the TJMK website headline is, "who is behind REPEATED attempts," suggesting a wilfull maliciousness in spreading false information - repeatedly.

Well, I think the answer is clear. It was neither a Kercher family spokesman nor Jeanne Sager.

It was the Tabloid press. They are the only ones who did anything repeatedly. Albeit single entities doing it sequentially....
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Today at the TJMK website - 21 Oct 2011

Postby Bill Williams » Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:46 pm

I had better watch my biases... I was going to post this with the warning that 'the weasel words' continue from the TJMK website, but me using the term 'weasel word' is itself a weasel word. Sigh! It is up to you, the reader to determine your own comfort level with weasel words. Admittedly, if the author is saying something you like, then referring to the opposition with the use of the odd weasel word now and then is 'understandible'. It's only when the other side uses them that they become indecent!

Today at the TJMK website - 21 Oct 2011
Knox Public Relations Manager Starts Premature Crowing
Many Many Months Before It’s Really All Over


Premature exultation in the land of David Marriott

- Land of Marriott as described by Heidi Dietrich in the Puget Sound Business Journal. 'Land of Marriot' weasel word
- Now that the supertanker has pulled into port, the story about the creation of the narrative can finally begin to be told. 'supertanker has pulled into port' weasel word
- the (Marriot) media operates on the assumption that the American Public can’t remember the day before yesterday.
- And in the business journal treatment of the Marriott PR Triumph (aka The Snow White Job), someone has forgotten that the script a month ago stated that there was no PR campaign and that anyone who believed there was one was nothing but a guilter and a hater. 'Snow White job' weasel word, but then I admit I have seen 'hater' used as a weasel word describing guilters
- Mr. Marriott looks like a cross between Colonel Sanders and a dumpling. weasel word
- he was hired three days after Knox was arrested, for financial terms neither side will disclose.
- The partnership between the Knox family and Marriott illustrates the potential of a public relations campaign to shift sentiment — and possibly even influence a verdict.
- If you ever get in trouble, this is the guy you want working for you, feeding chicken shit to the masses and calling it chicken delight. weasel word, I mean is the debunking of the original DNA evidence pointing to AK and RS now 'chicken shit'? I thought this was about the evidence? Apparently the TJMK webpage mourns not MK, but the loss of a PR war.
- “There will be financial opportunities,” Marriott said. “I’ll be there to walk them through the opportunities.”
- Elizabeth Vargas never once uttered the word “divorced” (focus groups show this does not resonate with viewers in a key demographic).
- "Did you happen to notice that Vargas tried to edit Meredith’s mother entirely out of the press conference following the announcement of the verdict? As if she weren’t even there. As if she didn’t even exist."

---------------------------------------

What could the Knox/Vargas marital situation possibly have to do with the quality of DNA evidence in Perugia? TJMK website has ventured VERY VERY far from what is germane here.

The only comment I will review is this one, "As Thundering said above, it’s “the absolute lack of integrity” which stuns so much. From Knox herself up to the PR firms and the media, it’s almost as if they’re thumbing their noses at the innocent. It’s truly stunning in its awfulness."

I am truly missing something here - did not the Hellman verdict say that AK and RS were not just "not guilty", but in fact "innocent"? And why has Raffaele Sollecito virtually disappeared as a character on the TJMK website.

I'm just asking.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Sarah » Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:02 pm

I like these updates. It would be nice if there was a - Today on PMF - also. :)

Thanks for the update.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Jstanz » Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:47 pm

Sarah wrote:I like these updates. It would be nice if there was a - Today on PMF - also. :)

Thanks for the update.



Will someone do the Today on PMF? I'll do it if no one else will, but I'm not nearly as eloquent or articulate as most others here.

I'll start later today if no one else picks it up.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Jstanz » Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:58 pm

What always amazes me is that they talk alot about the supporters of innocence vilifying the Kerchers and Meredith but I rarely, if ever, have seen anyone vilifying the Kerchers! Then you have these articles and comments coming from TJMK and that's ALL they are ever doing there! Vilifying Amanda and her friends and family! Anyone, no matter how well respected they are, who dares to mention anything other than their accepted story, gets trashed and their credentials get scrutinized and made to sound unacceptable to give a viewpoint. That's what's happening now on PMF with John Douglas! They absolutely never concede a point and admit to being wrong about anything. They rarely talk about the evidence and what it means to their stance. You notice very few comments here refuting what's being said there because it's nothing substantial! There's nothing really to refute most of the time because it's nothing but trash mud-slinging!
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Today at the TJMK website - 24 Oct 2011

Postby Bill Williams » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:48 pm

The TJMK website continues at a dizzying pace to explain away the Oct 3, Hellman appeals court acquittal of AK and RS. Now it is the CSI effect which explains it, although TJMK does not come out and say exactly that. It simply, innocently 'brings up the subject', hoping the reader will leave convinced that the TJMK wonderings are, indeed, fact.

The TJMK is making direct comparisons between the AK and RS acquittals and the earlier Casey Anthony acquittal. Guilt by association?

For me, I somewhat agree - the CSI effect is very much a live issue, for lay-people like me. I can get dazzled by science just like anyone. However, everyone hold their breath and repeat after me - "peer review". Surely the sure-fire guarantor that the likes of me will not be dazzled by all the pretty lights is peer review. What do the other experts say?

Also, please note that this discussion as revealed by the sources cited in the TJMK site are newspapers. Not scientific or legal journals. Most certainly us laypeople need to be having discussions about this in the popular media, but is there not a legal journal who discusses this?


Today at the TJMK website - 24 Oct 2011
The Casey Anthony And Sollecito-Knox Outcomes Spark A New Discussion Of The CSI Effect


- time and again, the forensic evidence testing is clearcut and takes just a few minutes and instantly clinches the case.
- (but where's the) roaming far beyond the narrow crime scene, interrogating witnesses and checking alibis and finding a lot of non-forensic evidence, and even at times drawing guns?
- there is a tough added burden on investigators and juries without a commensurate improved outcome.
- conviction rates (are) declining in the US and Europe, professionals are taking a scientific look at whether the CSI Effect is one big cause of that decline. What is the outcome of this? Website doesn;t say!
- (writers) fear that the CSI Effect is fatally unbalancing takes on the wider evidence
- In Australia there's a backlash against the increased number of acquittals.
- The jury is still out on what really swayed the Perugia appeal jury. Their sentencing report is due out in the New Year. They sure didnt look at very much except for a small fraction of the DNA. Give TJMK website credit where it is due - at least there's now a MENTION of the discredited DNA evidence. However, given that the discrediting virtually rules out AK and RS at the crime scene, what is left that could possibly now put them there! A cartwheel? A kiss? The debunking of a staged breakin? What? Even if they told 1,000 lies, if they weren't at the crime-scene what is the significance of those 1,000 lies?
- Which leaves us with a big question. How did Judge Hellman brief his jury? We’re told this might be his first DNA case. Told? By whom? If you have proof of this, I'd like to know? However, was it the first DNA case for the scientists who debunked the DNA evidence?
- There's a BIG PICTURE of Casey Anthony. Wait a minute, I thought this was the AK and RS case? This article is not about the CSI Effect, it is about guilt by association!!!!!

God indeed is merciful as there are no comments - yet.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Jstanz » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:10 pm

Jstanz wrote:
Sarah wrote:I like these updates. It would be nice if there was a - Today on PMF - also. :)

Thanks for the update.



Will someone do the Today on PMF? I'll do it if no one else will, but I'm not nearly as eloquent or articulate as most others here.

I'll start later today if no one else picks it up.


I'm going to pass on doing these - I just don't think I could do a good enough job of it......sorry :(
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby sflicker » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:31 pm

I don't want to debate the Casey Anthony case but one of the jurors said she felt neither side proved their case and she had no idea if Casey Anthony was guilty or not. It's a very weird case ... Regardless of her guilt or innocence I do believe it's better to let a few guilty go then put innocent's in prison. As for AK e RS Jury I think it's pretty simple and everybody here knows the answer.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Grayhawker » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:15 am

stegosaur wrote:But AK's parents did employ a PR firm, and RS's parents tried to influence the court.

I don't honestly think that this site is concerned with justice for Meredith Kercher, beyond bland assertions that Guede killed her, acting alone. It exists to acclaim Amanda Knox as innocent. I'm not at all sure that the evidence supports this.

I don't find Amanda Knox's reported behaviour, and accounts of her behaviour, at all suggestive of innocence. The same goes for Rafaelle Sollecito. (Sorry if I've misspelled anyone!)

If trying to influence a court case by the Knox family is wrong, so were the efforts (ongoing) by the Kerchers and by the prosecution. If it is acceptable for 2 of the 3 parties to use the media and press to influence public opinion, thereby the court, than there can be no arguement for the 3rd party (the accused).

Justice for Meredith does not mean prosecution of innocent (that is what AK and RS are now even by legal standards). In fact, that detracts from what should be desired for Meredith. Finding the truth and if it is that Guede is the responsible person, than that is justice. What the police did not do was fully pursue evidence that might have exonerated AK and RS, such as the semen stain on the pillow or the account of the car in the driveway prior to 9pm.

What isn't justice for Meredith is to arrive at a conclusion and then try to make evidence fit it, rather than allow the evidence determine the conclusion. Right now, the evidence only points to two people being in her bedroom. Is it possible that Guede could have killed her by himself has to be the question? The answer is simply, YES, it is possible and in fact highly probable.

What is injustice for Meredith is that Magnini didn't oppose, likely supported, a reduction in Guede's prison time from 30-years to 16-years. Why? Because he apologized? Could there have been other reasons, not quite honorable on the prosecutions part?

As for the behavior questions, plese describe in detail what exactly is a problem with each one.
1) Hugs and pecks (hardly lasivious kisses)
2) Buying underwear to at a general (Target-type) store
3) Stretching in yoga posse after sitting for hours in an outoftheway room at the police station (did not do cartwheel, did not do split, did a type of lunge/deep knee bend)
4) Not crying enough (infront of investigators)
5) Provide any others you want to describe, but don't go into 'icey stares' or 'cold eyes' or smiles at wrong time or descriptions of pictures taken out of context
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby couldbeher » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:24 pm

Bill-just wanted to say thanks for telling us what's going on at TJMK. I lurked there as well when I first heard about the case (wanted to get both sides). So much vitriol. You're a brave man.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Bill Williams » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:32 pm

couldbeher wrote:Bill-just wanted to say thanks for telling us what's going on at TJMK. I lurked there as well when I first heard about the case (wanted to get both sides). So much vitriol. You're a brave man.

Or dumb as a post.

I've taken unpopular positions on this website, but at least people here argue the evidence rather than.... well, call me dumb as a post.

Maybe privately in PM's but not (yet) publically.

But the naked vitriol at TJMK is.... will, one of the things it is not is True Justice for Meredith Kercher.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Bill Williams » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:38 pm

Grayhawker wrote:As for the behavior questions, please describe in detail what exactly is a problem with each one.
1) Hugs and pecks (hardly lasivious kisses)

Nothing. Even if they were playing tonsil hockey, which they weren't, murders tend to flee, rather than stand outside the crime-scene comforting each other.

Grayhawker wrote:2) Buying underwear to at a general (Target-type) store

Nothing. Esp. when the rest of your clothes are behind a police line.

Grayhawker wrote:3) Stretching in yoga posse after sitting for hours in an outoftheway room at the police station (did not do cartwheel, did not do split, did a type of lunge/deep knee bend)

Nothing. Unless one claims that yoga practioneers are prone to violence....

Grayhawker wrote:4) Not crying enough (infront of investigators)

Nothing. In fact, crying too hard would be seen as deception. Damn it's hard finding the right number of tears.

Grayhawker wrote:5) Provide any others you want to describe, but don't go into 'icey stares' or 'cold eyes' or smiles at wrong time or descriptions of pictures taken out of context

Actually, the icy stares are obvious signs of guilt.... that's what it says in my "Behavioural Clues To Homicidal Tendencies" book I just got from the library....
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby geebee2 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:54 pm

What's going on? I though the key to the prosecution was that she "swivelled her hips" when putting on shoe covers at the crime scene.

Such a clear sign of guilt.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Bill Williams » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:12 pm

geebee2 wrote:What's going on? I though the key to the prosecution was that she "swivelled her hips" when putting on shoe covers at the crime scene.

Such a clear sign of guilt.

Apologies. Yes, swiveling the hips was the clincher.... how blind can I be?
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Jstanz » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:19 pm

Ok - I can't commit to PMF but here's one I just want to point out to any newbies out there. Today at PMF I saw them going round and round saying Hellman's court ignored "all the other evidence" that Massei's court relied on to convict. Hellman's court was influenced solely by C&V's report on the bra clasp and the knife and didn't look at all the other evidence.

What is it in the genetic make-up of these people's brains that prevents them from seeing that there is no other evidence? There was nothing else for Hellman to look at and he saw that! Any other evidence that Mignini once spewed out has long since been disproven.

The next time any newbie sees them saying that ask them what that other evidence is. Then never say what it is. And I guarantee you if they do come up with something, and you look for yourself, you'll find that it's either a downright lie, or you'll find that it's been disproven by the facts.

Here's another good one - someone there said today that the Independent used to be a great newspaper but now they've published "biased and crass and error-ridden" articles by Amy Jenkins and Peter Popham....I'd like to say that if you'll notice, everything is ALWAYS biased if the person's advocating innocence. You'll never see them concede even one point. Even John Douglas is a flake now!

Gotta love it.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Bill Williams » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:59 pm

Jstanz wrote:Ok - I can't commit to PMF but here's one I just want to point out to any newbies out there. Today at PMF I saw them going round and round saying Hellman's court ignored "all the other evidence" that Massei's court relied on to convict. Hellman's court was influenced solely by C&V's report on the bra clasp and the knife and didn't look at all the other evidence.

What is it in the genetic make-up of these people's brains that prevents them from seeing that there is no other evidence? There was nothing else for Hellman to look at and he saw that! Any other evidence that Mignini once spewed out has long since been disproven.

The next time any newbie sees them saying that ask them what that other evidence is. Then never say what it is.

Actually they do.

On the Oct 7 posting on the TJMK page, they call it, "US And UK Media: Now Try To Answer The HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS Of Open Questions".

See:

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C481/

(I hope the link works!)

However, when you click on the links there which take you to those 100s of "open questions", you get:
- a powerpoint of 150 open questions made in June 2009, BEFORE the DNA review of Summer 2011. So, these are mainly "closed" questions now.
- a Nov 2010 posting about AK in prison, and an Italian parliamentarian who visited her, with the assessment of the TJMK webpage - I am not making this up - Have you ever told a priest, psychologist, psychiatrist, social worker, drinking buddy or your wife about your physical contact with Amanda and your nocturnal dreams which involve her? If so, what advice have they given you?
- A Feb 2011 posting from a trial lawyer who wants to know about - the bra-clasp-DNA, the bathmat footprint of Rafaelle's, Rafaelle's father "blowing the alibi" by calling RS's place on Nov 1, the double-DNA-knife, "Amanda’s DNA mixed with Meredith Kercher’s in five different places just feet from Meredith’s body", (I could go on) but this is ALL evidence long since rebutted or irrelevant in the face of the fact the simply could not have been at the crime scene....
- The Daily Beast's list of 10 questions from Oct 5, 2011. Turning off cellphones night of Nov 1, why was AK bleeding?, the accusation towards Lumumba, why did AK go with RS to the police station on Nov 5 (ed note.: ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?), why was there a LACK of AK fingerprints at the crime scene?, why the mop?, would AK still have refused the memorial service if she'd known it would look so bad?, who does AK think did it if she didn't?, what does AK think of the legal system in Italy, and why was AK's trial testimony so differnet from her final appeal closing arguments.

I cannot go on. It is STARK reading The Daily Beast's so-called unanswered questions.

The reality is that there are no unanswered questions of anything resembling substance - unless you believe that AK failing to come up with a theory of "who did it?" somehow means that she had to do it.

This is more than ridiculous. But I promised no name-calling in this thread.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Jstanz » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:18 am

Bill Williams wrote:
Jstanz wrote:Ok - I can't commit to PMF but here's one I just want to point out to any newbies out there. Today at PMF I saw them going round and round saying Hellman's court ignored "all the other evidence" that Massei's court relied on to convict. Hellman's court was influenced solely by C&V's report on the bra clasp and the knife and didn't look at all the other evidence.

What is it in the genetic make-up of these people's brains that prevents them from seeing that there is no other evidence? There was nothing else for Hellman to look at and he saw that! Any other evidence that Mignini once spewed out has long since been disproven.

The next time any newbie sees them saying that ask them what that other evidence is. Then never say what it is.

Actually they do.

On the Oct 7 posting on the TJMK page, they call it, "US And UK Media: Now Try To Answer The HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS Of Open Questions".

See:

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C481/

(I hope the link works!)

However, when you click on the links there which take you to those 100s of "open questions", you get:
- a powerpoint of 150 open questions made in June 2009, BEFORE the DNA review of Summer 2011. So, these are mainly "closed" questions now.
- a Nov 2010 posting about AK in prison, and an Italian parliamentarian who visited her, with the assessment of the TJMK webpage - I am not making this up - Have you ever told a priest, psychologist, psychiatrist, social worker, drinking buddy or your wife about your physical contact with Amanda and your nocturnal dreams which involve her? If so, what advice have they given you?
- A Feb 2011 posting from a trial lawyer who wants to know about - the bra-clasp-DNA, the bathmat footprint of Rafaelle's, Rafaelle's father "blowing the alibi" by calling RS's place on Nov 1, the double-DNA-knife, "Amanda’s DNA mixed with Meredith Kercher’s in five different places just feet from Meredith’s body", (I could go on) but this is ALL evidence long since rebutted or irrelevant in the face of the fact the simply could not have been at the crime scene....
- The Daily Beast's list of 10 questions from Oct 5, 2011. Turning off cellphones night of Nov 1, why was AK bleeding?, the accusation towards Lumumba, why did AK go with RS to the police station on Nov 5 (ed note.: ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?), why was there a LACK of AK fingerprints at the crime scene?, why the mop?, would AK still have refused the memorial service if she'd known it would look so bad?, who does AK think did it if she didn't?, what does AK think of the legal system in Italy, and why was AK's trial testimony so differnet from her final appeal closing arguments.

I cannot go on. It is STARK reading The Daily Beast's so-called unanswered questions.

The reality is that there are no unanswered questions of anything resembling substance - unless you believe that AK failing to come up with a theory of "who did it?" somehow means that she had to do it.

This is more than ridiculous. But I promised no name-calling in this thread.


OK - so I'll amend. They rarely do and WHEN they do it's the old disproven evidence.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Bill Williams » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:40 am

It's like when you catch them in a lie, they say, "yes, but hear me out!"
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby erasmus44 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:49 am

Over at PMF, there has been an extensive(and kind of funny) discussion of the US hikers prosecuted and imprisoned in Iran and a number of guilter posts suggesting that they "must" be guilty because it is impossible to walk over an international border unintentionally. I guess if you are a hammer, everything must look like a nail - any American prosecuted abroad must be guilty. I wonder exactly what leads one's neurons to be so arranged(or deranged) as to adopt this peculiar bias.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Grayhawker » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:59 am

The Guiltiers know the big secret all international hikers live by, that the black line you see on the globe can be found on the ground when you are hiking showing where the country boundry is!!!

geeeeesh, folks don't you know anything!
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Today at the TJMK website - 26 Oct 2011

Postby Bill Williams » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:35 pm

This is probably the most balanced report from the TJMK page since the acquittal on Oct 3. Although still from a guilter slant, the TJMK page gives something teetering on an objective review, with the guilter bias intact.

Today at the TJMK website - 26 Oct 2011
TJMK’s Review Of John Follain’s Very Meticulous Book
On Meredith And Her Case “Death In Perugia”


- it's a long book, very detailed and from a wide rainge of sources
- the acquittal portion (from Nov 2010 onwards) is only 50 pages long
- "but (the acquital portion) does succeed in redressing much of the misreporting of the evidence heard during the appeal, leaving the reader as bewildered as ever about the acquittal verdict"
- This book amply contradicts the notion that there isn’t the evidence.
- but the DNA evidence is covered so little in this book
- He concentrates more on character, events and outcomes, on what was said, written and reported. These include his own author interviews, including with Amanda’s parents and stepfather, prison officials and guards, the prison chaplain and prison inmates, and the Kercher family
- Content is delivered in chronological order without editorial analysis
- the staged burglary, the manipulation of the crime scene, and Amanda’s blood on the faucet in the small bathroom - are not given special treatment or explanation. To have done so could in any event give rise to a charge of advocacy
- None of the English girlfriends has any doubt as to Amanda’s involvement in the murder even if they cannot figure out motive and exactly what happened
- And a final, rather depressing quote:
Mignini “felt the DNA review had very probably persuaded the court – assuming it needed persuading in the first place – to cast doubt over his entire case. [He] had looked into the chances of America ever extraditing Amanda to Italy if she was acquitted and then found guilty when the case went to the Supreme Court for a second appeal. Officials told him that yes, there was an extradition treaty between the two countries, but no, America would never send Amanda back.”
- What it does do is leave the reader disturbed with aspects of the verdict

Comments are uninteresting - one commenter said, "Amanda’s outright body rejection of Sophie’s hug in sympathy for Meredith is so telling. As for the Knox brigade all back home together on the mothership in Seattle now, ha! I would hate to be a part of that miserable family with their welcome home Amanda nightmare."

Another - "I can’t see them staying together. One thing that did raise a smile from me the day after the acquital was when Edda’s mother was asked if Knox and Sollecito would ‘get back together’, she told the interviewer not to be so silly, how could that possibly happen when they live thousands of miles apart and only knew each other a short time. I quite liked that lady, she called him back to tell him that she never stopped thinking of the Kerchers from the very first day."

I don't know what that means!
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Today at the TJMK website - 28 Oct 2011

Postby Bill Williams » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:22 pm

I have promised no invective in this thread - but sometimes it is hard to maintain composure. The subtext of the latest TJMK offering is that neither AK nor RS suffered in these past 4 years - the title says why. Jesus, Mary, and Joseph please keep me from uttering invective, I beseech you!

I am not making this up!


28 Oct 2011
A Famous Black Widow Confirms What MP Girlanda Told Us First:
Italian Prisons Are Pretty Nice Places


- Patrizia Reggiani has been in jail ever since being convicted of killing Maurizio Gucci, the grandson of the founder of the house of Gucci, in 1998.
- She has since refused day release because she will not accept a menial job such as working as a waitress.
- “I would rather weep in a Rolls-Royce than be happy on a bicycle.”
- Instead she intends to serve the rest of her 26-year sentence in her jail cell, where she reportedly lavishes affection on a collection of pot plants and a pet ferret.
- The description of Patrizia’s prison life comes with no surprises. If you are going to be a prisoner anywhere in the world, Italy does seem the place of choice. .

And what in God's green acre does this have to do with AK or RS?

- prisoners often get their own bathroom and even a kitchen attached to their cell
- get their hair done professionally and attend rock concerts and plays
- They can learn a trade if they lack skills, and can often work on computers all day long.

And true to form, instead of DEMONSTRATING (ie. proving) that AK and RS were accorded these luxuries, note the weasel word I have underlined

- Knox and Sollecito are believed to have done all of these things.
- Italian MP Rocco Girlanda often visited Knox in Capanne to inspect conditions and declared Knox to be very well off
- These sob-stuff stories on torrid life at Capanne suddenly emerging from Seattle do smack of instant history

You know, I am someone who'd rather be happy on a bike than crying in a Rolls Royce. I would rather be homeless and happy, than have cable TV and be in prison.

The TJMK site is a mean and vicious small-minded place. That's the only invective I will risk here, so as not to break my own oath too badly. I am trying, I am really trying here.......
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby geebee2 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:18 pm

Bill

Yes, they seem to have completely missed the point.

Amanda and Raffaele would have suffered not from day-to-day conditions ( even if their life was quite prescribed ) but from the fear that most of their best years would be spent in prison. Amanda could never have children for instance. To have that hanging over you for two years is truly terrible ( I don't think it was such a big issue before the first trial, because Amanda was quite confident she would be acquitted - a very reasonable position from her point of view, knowing her own innocence ). But after the first trial, they must have "died every day" as I think Raffaele put it.

I remember once in my childhood being punished for something I didn't do - it's the sense of unfairness that hits you. Why me? What have I done?
It has stayed with me for 45 years - when most of the events of my childhood are long forgotten.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Grayhawker » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:41 pm

"None of the English girlfriends has any doubt as to Amanda’s involvement in the murder even if they cannot figure out motive and exactly what happened"

The original mean girls. Twenty year old college students are some of the cruelest. Ask my daughter about all her "friends" that de-friended her from facebook just because she had the nerve to study abroad for a semester?!

"Amanda’s outright body rejection of Sophie’s hug in sympathy for Meredith is so telling."

When I have experienced tragedy. I respond in the extreme. Cursing or silence. When in silent mode, I don't want anyone touching me or talking to me. Guess I must be a serial killer.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Bill Williams » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:48 pm

Grayhawker wrote: "Amanda’s outright body rejection of Sophie’s hug in sympathy for Meredith is so telling."

When I have experienced tragedy. I respond in the extreme. Cursing or silence. When in silent mode, I don't want anyone touching me or talking to me. Guess I must be a serial killer.

You can't be. I know for a fact you've never had pizza with Raffaele Sollecito. A brief check in the Perugia Serial Killer's Handbook says you'll have to be satisfied with being simply a killer.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby LarryK » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:52 pm

Grayhawker wrote:"Amanda’s outright body rejection of Sophie’s hug in sympathy for Meredith is so telling."

When I have experienced tragedy. I respond in the extreme. Cursing or silence. When in silent mode, I don't want anyone touching me or talking to me. Guess I must be a serial killer.


I like hugs, but I'm squeamish about being hugged by someone I don't know or have barely met. Others are more open to that. Add emotional trauma, and who knows how I would respond if an untrusted person tried to hug me? Amanda's response is understandable even if it's a minority response in that situation.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Grayhawker » Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:15 am

But Bill, I had higher asperations!

What if I had played basketball with Guede?
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Grayhawker » Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:37 am

LarryK wrote:
Grayhawker wrote:"Amanda’s outright body rejection of Sophie’s hug in sympathy for Meredith is so telling."

When I have experienced tragedy. I respond in the extreme. Cursing or silence. When in silent mode, I don't want anyone touching me or talking to me. Guess I must be a serial killer.


I like hugs, but I'm squeamish about being hugged by someone I don't know or have barely met. Others are more open to that. Add emotional trauma, and who knows how I would respond if an untrusted person tried to hug me? Amanda's response is understandable even if it's a minority response in that situation.

I didn't realize that there only one acceptable emotional response to tragedy. That everyone must conform to the majorities social norm, otherwise, the "abnormal" must be removed from society and placed in prison where they won't make the majority uncomfortable.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Bill Williams » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:24 am

Grayhawker wrote:But Bill, I had higher asperations!

What if I had played basketball with Guede?

Sorry to disappoint. The Perugia Serial Killer Handbook is clear on this matter and not to be doubted. No eating pizza, no swiveling your hips after putting on little paper shoes - then you're not a serial killer.

To be honest, though, I am starting to suspect that it was YOU who faked the break in....
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby sflicker » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:27 pm

- These sob-stuff stories on torrid life at Capanne suddenly emerging from Seattle do smack of instant history


I think these so called sob stories are based on letters she wrote and are now the basis for stories
in the UK media like the daily mail. As if AK controls the daily mail. Maybe the guilters will next claim without any proof that AK is sleeping with Nick Pisa. Then denounce anybody that doesn't agree with this assessment.

I think life was up and down for AK e RS. Probably very difficult immediately after the guilty verdict of the first trial. I agree being imprisoned for something they didn't do must have been incredible torture. And there where periods we AK was locked in the cell 23 hours a day which would be torture to most ppl. But it's clear AK made the best of her situation. Reading books, singing and playing guitar in church, writing letters etc.

Some recent press stories are even attacking the fact that AK did not mention MK in the letter mentioned in the torture story.

The tjmk story also mentions rock concerts in prison and this is true as there is a YouTube video that proves it. However I know this occurs in some us prisons as well. A local radio station denotes a one hour a week to requests from local prisoners and concerts are mentioned. However I'm sure in both Italy and American prison is not somewhere ppl want to go even if there is an occasional rock concert. Im sure it's hell in many ways.
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Today at the TJMK website - 30 Oct 2011

Postby Bill Williams » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:59 pm

People seem to be running out of things to talk about specifically about the AK and RS acquital last Oct 3rd. Now, the TJMK site is waxing about what a shame it is that no one gets convicted anymore - when, in its view, it is so damn obvious that someone is guilty.

For those who know me - I am a 'if you do the crime, you do the time' sort of guy. But I fail to see why this supposed trend to release the guilty has anything to do with any one specific case - most notably this one where there is no forensics placing AK and/or RS at the crime scene.

This is a "hang 'em high" posting at TJMK website that simply goes against the evidence in this case.


TJMK site - 30 Oct 2011
Outcry In England At Evidence And Jury-Briefing Requirements
Which Make Convictions Much Harder


- the site offers a few examples about how the judicial, "playing field is becoming noticeably tilted away from prosecutors and police."
- One factor may be a growing suspicion of governments which seem to have been captured by the very rich.
- One factor may be declining budgets as those same governments get more and more into debt.
- One factor may be TV shows and live court coverage which allow everyone to think they know best.

A factor "MAY BE"!?!?!?! Does this author not want to present actual evidence that this is happening. or is the author content with supporting a hypothesis based on "may be's"?

- this happens when "narcissistic defendants" "twiddle peoples’ heartstrings"

It is really hard to comment here. Does this author really believe he or she can determine narcissism in someone they have never met nor forensically examined? I presume here that the author is laying this allegation at AK, or else why would it be on this webpage. This is straining belief that this author would think this whole piece worthy as a comment on a murder case. I am struggling to find something serious to say about this drivel. (Remember, keep it civil.)

- In Italy there is an ultra-cautious legal system
- the author then cites the case of Vincent Tabak in England who WAS convicted of murder even though the defense portrayed him as a shy boy.
- the author then cites "evidence" put forth by English papers that the jury did not here, about how depraved the guy really was.
- Mr Tabak, it was alleged, looked at, "porn, but in particular porn depicting violence towards women with their tops raised." “There are also violent images of women being held by the neck, then being sexually abused by men."
- The jury was not allowed to here this "evidence" as it might prejudice them towards the defendant.
- the author concludes: "Should this evidence have been admissible? Mr Justice Field said that although Tabak’s choice of viewing was reprehensible, it was not valuable enough to outweigh the prejudice it would cause his defence. There are those who say this is justice at its exemplary best; that criminal trials are often based on negotiations between lawyers and judges about what evidence can be put before a court. Then there are the rest of us who are left somewhat mystified by the methods used by the legal establishment to ensure justice."

All these are good questions.

Yet what in God's green acre do they have to do with AK and RS about whom it is proven that they were not at a crime scene, they did not transport a knife to a crime scene, and they did not fake a break in?

Can someone enlighten me?
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby erasmus44 » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:42 pm

I think that both of the guilter sites seem to be moving on to other cases for some reason. The point about the CSI effect has some validity. A friend of mine who is a prosecutor in a neighboring county told me that the judges now permit the prosecutors to submit a "CSI instruction" to the jury - basically saying that there is no way that in every case there will be the kind of evidence that appears on CSI TV shows. Statistics about conviction rates have to be analyzed closely because so many cases are resolved in plea bargains so that the only cases tried are the ones where the prosecutor could not get a guilty plea and these tend to be cases where there are real problems in the prosecutor's case. In the AK case, I told my wife that after the CV report came out, in the United States, there probably would have been a deal on the basis of pleading guilty to a lesser charge(obstruction of justice due to the PL statement) and the sentence would be time served - it actually turned out pretty close to the result Hellman reached.
I think some of the guilters are becoming subconsciously aware that it is very unlikely Hellman will be reversed and that the AK case will wind down with a big "L" on the guilter won lost record. So on to other cases. My feeling has always been that in the United States, the procedural rules tend to favor the defense but effective use of them depends upon having the resources to retain a competent attorney. This does sometimes lead to guilty people going free but we have made an implicit(or perhaps explicit) decision to tolerate that in order to minimize the risk of convicting the innocent.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby florence » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:57 pm

The "guilters" shouldn't be focusing too much on the Joanna Yeates case if they want to defend their anti-Knox positions. In that case too a completely innocent person was arrested by police and vilified in the media for supposedly being "weird", which was seen as evidence enough that he must have been guilty. In fact, there was even one point during the investigation when the police wrongly believed that two people may have been involved in Joanna's murder.

Christopher Jeffries, Joanna's landlord who was accused of her murder, was torn to pieces by the UK tabloids. Like Amanda, a naive hippy student in a foreign land the cultural protocols of which she didn't fully understand, he was judged guilty because his behaviour was "weird": funny hair, confirmed bachelor, rather old-fashioned and somewhat oblivious of what was going on. It must have been him! The Daily Mail even started to publish rubbish that implied Jeffries may have been responsible for a cold case murder from the 1970s of a young woman around Joanna's age in that part of England.

Of course, the Joanna Yeates murder also shows that a young woman can be killed by one man, and that one man alone can inflict dozens of wounds upon the body of a young woman.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby geebee2 » Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:08 pm

florence wrote:The "guilters" shouldn't be focusing too much on the Joanna Yeates case if they want to defend their anti-Knox positions. In that case too a completely innocent person was arrested by police and vilified in the media for supposedly being "weird", which was seen as evidence enough that he must have been guilty. In fact, there was even one point during the investigation when the police wrongly believed that two people may have been involved in Joanna's murder.

Christopher Jeffries, Joanna's landlord who was accused of her murder, was torn to pieces by the UK tabloids. Like Amanda, a naive hippy student in a foreign land the cultural protocols of which she didn't fully understand, he was judged guilty because his behaviour was "weird": funny hair, confirmed bachelor, rather old-fashioned and somewhat oblivious of what was going on. It must have been him! The Daily Mail even started to publish rubbish that implied Jeffries may have been responsible for a cold case murder from the 1970s of a young woman around Joanna's age in that part of England.

Of course, the Joanna Yeates murder also shows that a young woman can be killed by one man, and that one man alone can inflict dozens of wounds upon the body of a young woman.


Good points Florence.
I'm proud to say that when Jeffries was arrested, I told my wife I was almost sure he didn't do it.
I didn't see the rubbish they printed about him, but I'm glad to say that he at least received substantial financial compensation ( the amount wasn't disclosed I have heard it was a six figure sum ). I hope Amanda receives a much larger sum - considering the length of time she has suffered ( I think Jeffries was only imprisoned for a few days ). An exemplary seven figure sum would not be too much I think.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Jstanz » Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:00 am

PMF today:

"It speaks to something" that Rudy didn't steal Meredith's ipod out of her purse.

Yeah, he's really quite a sweet guy underneath it all.......
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby JFT96 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:47 am

florence wrote:The "guilters" shouldn't be focusing too much on the Joanna Yeates case if they want to defend their anti-Knox positions. In that case too a completely innocent person was arrested by police and vilified in the media for supposedly being "weird", which was seen as evidence enough that he must have been guilty. In fact, there was even one point during the investigation when the police wrongly believed that two people may have been involved in Joanna's murder.

Christopher Jeffries, Joanna's landlord who was accused of her murder, was torn to pieces by the UK tabloids. Like Amanda, a naive hippy student in a foreign land the cultural protocols of which she didn't fully understand, he was judged guilty because his behaviour was "weird": funny hair, confirmed bachelor, rather old-fashioned and somewhat oblivious of what was going on. It must have been him! The Daily Mail even started to publish rubbish that implied Jeffries may have been responsible for a cold case murder from the 1970s of a young woman around Joanna's age in that part of England.

Of course, the Joanna Yeates murder also shows that a young woman can be killed by one man, and that one man alone can inflict dozens of wounds upon the body of a young woman.


All good points.

But the most crucial thing was the evidence found on the computer of Vincent Tabak with regards his Google searches after the event that nailed him.

Now contrast that case with AK's dismantled computer (which caused the loss of an Alibi, and the claims of photo imagery of her being friendly with the murder victim that would have greatly hindered the Prosecution case), and you have a fundamental reason to believe in the possibility she & RS were framed by the Perugia authorities.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Sarah » Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:23 pm

Jstanz wrote:PMF today:

"It speaks to something" that Rudy didn't steal Meredith's ipod out of her purse.

Yeah, he's really quite a sweet guy underneath it all.......


geez, can't believe someone wrote that.

Translation:
I know he slit Meredith's throat and then raped her while she was aspirating blood before she died suffocating on her own blood, but he didn't take her Ipod for heavens sake! He's not a monster! :/

Un-frigin believable.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby sflicker » Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:35 pm

But he was listening to his IPod when he was in the bathroom. So why would he need to steal Meredith's after he killed her.

Maybe he had different tastes in music then Meredith ...

I think the rent money theory is a pretty good one. He could have stolen stuff from the other rooms as well. but he stole the money and cell phones. Was there anything else he stole? I guess he tried to use one of the phones to get her ATM numbers but when that didn't work he just dumped them.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Jstanz » Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:58 pm

sflicker wrote:But he was listening to his IPod when he was in the bathroom. So why would he need to steal Meredith's after he killed her.

Maybe he had different tastes in music then Meredith ...

I think the rent money theory is a pretty good one. He could have stolen stuff from the other rooms as well. but he stole the money and cell phones. Was there anything else he stole? I guess he tried to use one of the phones to get her ATM numbers but when that didn't work he just dumped them.


I believe he took her credit cards also. Alot of people think the call to the bank was just a random mistake call but I always though it was equally possible he called the bank to try to get PIN numbers.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby erasmus44 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:09 pm

Grayhawker wrote:The Guiltiers know the big secret all international hikers live by, that the black line you see on the globe can be found on the ground when you are hiking showing where the country boundry is!!!

geeeeesh, folks don't you know anything!


It's really easy to see the boundary between Iraq and Iran - I looked at my Atlas and on the map Iraq is pink and Iran in purple. So if you just look down as you are walking along, you will see the soil change color as soon as you cross the border. Easy as pie - absolutely no excuse for "wandering across the border unintentionally.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Jstanz » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:20 pm

Just for the record - if it's needed.

Re: "S.O.B." ("Scroll On By") AK photo
by Xarta » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:45 pm

The 411 wrote:
"Amanda Knox Guilty of Being a Cat Burglar" (Or is this supposed to be Rudy?????????)

I think AK's costume goes perfectly with her "Mask of the Killer" ....



"Less than a month after being released from an Italian jail, Amanda Knox was spotted heading to a Halloween party in Seattle this weekend dressed as a cat burglar.

Freedom is a treat."



http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/31/amanda-kn ... q7Hm3JOZjs

She does seem to like her cat face painting, she was wearing the same one day before she killed Meredith
- excerpt from Raffaele's diary (in their own words section)
" 7 november 2007
...We leave
from 31 October, day in which I went to the graduation of Francisco
(...) and stayed at Paolo's house (...) and subsequently I met with
Amanda. I passed the day with her having supper and then she went
downtown with her face painted like a cat. I went out subsequently
painting my face making an abstract figure. I took a stroll downtown
and after I met again with Amanda. From there we returned home right
away and we passed the night watching a film..."
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Re: XXVII. MAIN DISCUSSION, OCTOBER 11 -
by extrashot » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:07 pm

Honestly, I can scarcely believe AK has gone out, dressed as a burglar, with her face painted like a cat as per the Halloween before she murdered Meredith, on Halloween. I mean, it's as if she's massively massively taking the piss. Amanda being Amanda makes me sick.extrashot

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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby geebee2 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:33 pm

Amanda Knox was spotted heading to a Halloween party in Seattle this weekend dressed as a cat burglar


I'm really bad at these things, but assuming the picture really is her, is it actually a cat?

Cat makeup is usually straight whiskers.

And even if it is a cat, where does the burglar bit come from??

Still, this is pretty silly... I mean isn't the point of halloween to dress up in some tasteless/weird costume?
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby JFT96 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:52 pm

To use a very patronising British analogy "You American's are very good at winning the war (in this case: AK's freedom), but not so good at winning the peace (the public perception that AK is innocent)".

Unless the current status quo in this case is subsequently changed by the Italian judicial system, AK has her liberty, but there is still a hell of a lot to do in PR terms to educate the public of her innocence.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Bill Williams » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:55 pm

AK should have dressed up as Mignini.
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Jstanz » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:17 pm

Bill Williams wrote:AK should have dressed up as Mignini.


:lol:
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby geebee2 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:32 pm

Actually, there has been an outbreak of fairness at PMF

Hang on.... far be it from me to defend Knox, but I wouldn't say her face is actually painted as a cat. It's supposed to be a false beard/tache combo, isn't it?


But then, with typical logic, she goes on

Nevertheless, cat burglar is still pretty insensitive in view of the burglar/lone wolf scenario. Still, could have been worse - I was, quite seriously, expecting to see her to dress up as a vampire.


Eh?!
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby kindlekitten » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:50 pm

page has been taken down. what do you want to bet it was faked to begin with. I would imagine the last thing in the WORLD that Amanda would be doing right now would be going to a Halloween party
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Llorenç Àngel » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:03 pm

kindlekitten wrote:page has been taken down. what do you want to bet it was faked to begin with. I would imagine the last thing in the WORLD that Amanda would be doing right now would be going to a Halloween party

It's still there, the link just wasn't copied correctly: Amanda Knox's Halloween Costume

But what's the big deal about her going to a Halloween party dressed as a "french guy" anyway? What should she do? Never go to a Helloween party again? It will always be on the day before the anniversary.

(Ok, wearing a vampire costume and doing cartwheels on the street would've been a bit over the top, SCNR.)

Fact is, if she is innocent, she didn't do anything but trying to help and therefore doesn't owe the Kerchers anything. I bet they don't care about how Lumumba dresses on Halloween, they only have a problem with Amanda's behavior because they still think she's guilty and because the press distributes a lot of pictures of her. But that in itself is not Amanda's problem or fault, this is something the Kerchers have to learn to deal with...

Regards,
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby LarryK » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:42 am

Totally different from how either Amanda or Meredith dressed on Halloween 2007. Critics, please just let an innocent girl get her life back!
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Grayhawker » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:58 am

Amanda Knox has a new calendar. It has 364 days on it. She no longer leaves her home on Oct 31 because that was the day Meredith last enjoyed life.

Oh, it wasn't the day she was murdered? It had nothing to do with Halloween?

Seriously, what did Meredith's "Best Friends" dress up as this year? I am sure they were very PC as we know all Brits are so sensitive to people's feelings. NOT!
Paolo Micheli stated with regard to Amanda and Raffaele: "We do not need evidence, common sense and logic tell us that they dated each other to commit this crime."
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Re: Today over at the TJMK website

Postby Jstanz » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:53 am

Hi Skep.

Andrea Vogt link very much appreciated. Increasing signs now that the house of cards is getting shaky. We will post soon on TJMK on those.


Peter Quennell


OOOOOOO - I can't wait! Such suspense.
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