Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Numbers » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:07 am

Annella wrote:My funny bone has been tickled. Courtesy of Vixen/KrissyG1/Christina Giscombe over at ISF.

...........
AIUI Ergon is the son of a respected diplomat and has lived all over the world. He is from nearby where Mez' mother hails from and she herself was a research academic in the Pompei project in Italy, and dad John is a professional journalist. Whilst that might be low class in the USA, in the UK it is a respected career. Mez' school was more expensive than Amanda's, if you want to make comparisons, which are odious.

There is nothing wrong with being working class, anyway. We are all an accident of our birth as to our station in life.

.........

.............

As for beauty and happiness, it is all in the eye of the beholder.

My experience of the PGP is that of people overwhelmingly only interested in the facts of the case.

.........


Who knew Naseer Ahmad's dad was a diplomat? I am assuming he would have been representing Pakistan given that is where Ergon/Ahmad is PHYSICALLY from. We all know he is actually from another world but that is for another day. :batshit crazy:: But looking at the two Ahmad's listed as Pakistani diplomats here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... _diplomats there seems to be a problem.
Re Meredith's mother being an academic researcher, if that was the case then good for her. Would have been wonderful if she had used those research skills to see the truth re case but......

Oh, and another wee point.

Vixen again

AIUI Raff and Andy (Gumbel) are back in court tomorrow, on trial for calunnia in the book Honor Bound. I bet publishers Simon & Shuster are relieved it never came out in the UK as we have strict libel laws here.


Errrr...... a little enlightenment here... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Honor-Bound-Jo ... +Sollecito

Regardless of whether the book is actively promoted on Amazon UK, it IS available new or used and dispatched within the UK as well as USA.


There may be a misunderstanding that "Honor Bound", the book by Raffaele Sollecito with Andrew Gumbel, is not available in the UK. Apparently it was not published in the UK, and may be imported. It is listed on the Amazon.co.uk website as available new or used, with a limited number of copies in either category. In the US, it is listed on Amazon with no limitation on the number of new copies.

It may be that the lack of publication in the UK is related to the publisher's concerns about libel. A new law on libel applicable to England and Wales was passed in 2013. Here is some information:

"How To Win A Defamation Lawsuit in the UK

In order for a claimant to succeed in a defamation lawsuit, the following must be true:

The statement in question must be a negative false statement of fact;
The statement in question identifies or refers to the claimant;
The statement in question was published.
....
Libel Tourism and the UK

Why is the UK known as the “libel tourism” capitol of the world? Aside from a “no win, no fee” contingency, damages awarded to libel claimants are high. As the term suggests, libel tourism is the practice of non-UK citizens or companies using UK courts for defamation cases because existing laws in the British Commonwealth favor plaintiffs. However, since the passing of the UK Defamation Act of 2013, libel tourism is expected to decrease."

Source: http://kellywarnerlaw.com/uk-defamation-laws/
Expert witness testimony must be the product of reliable principles and methods. {Paraphrase of Fed. Rules of Evidence 702c}
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:43 am

Numbers wrote:Why is the UK known as the “libel tourism” capitol of the world? Aside from a “no win, no fee” contingency, damages awarded to libel claimants are high. As the term suggests, libel tourism is the practice of non-UK citizens or companies using UK courts for defamation cases because existing laws in the British Commonwealth favor plaintiffs. However, since the passing of the UK Defamation Act of 2013, libel tourism is expected to decrease."


The most famous libel case is probably David Irving v Penguin Books Ltd
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_v_ ... _Books_Ltd
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Numbers » Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:42 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Numbers wrote:Why is the UK known as the “libel tourism” capitol of the world? Aside from a “no win, no fee” contingency, damages awarded to libel claimants are high. As the term suggests, libel tourism is the practice of non-UK citizens or companies using UK courts for defamation cases because existing laws in the British Commonwealth favor plaintiffs. However, since the passing of the UK Defamation Act of 2013, libel tourism is expected to decrease."


The most famous libel case is probably David Irving v Penguin Books Ltd
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_v_ ... _Books_Ltd


This paragraph from the cited Wikipedia article sums up the difference in UK compared to US law at the time of Irving's suit. I am unsure of the details of the changes resulting from the UK Defamation Act of 2013*.

"Irving's decision to file his lawsuit in the English courts gave him the upper hand by shifting the burden of proof. Under American libel law, a public figure who claims to have been libelled must prove that the statements in question are defamatory, that they are false, and that they were made with actual malice or with reckless disregard for their truth or falsity. Furthermore, reliance on reliable sources (even if they prove false) is a valid defence. In contrast, English libel law requires only that the claimant show that the statements are defamatory. The burden of proof falls on the defendant to prove that the statements were substantially true, and reliance on sources is irrelevant."

* So here are some references:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation_Act_2013
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... ts/enacted
{also available as a PDF}
Expert witness testimony must be the product of reliable principles and methods. {Paraphrase of Fed. Rules of Evidence 702c}
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Numbers » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:35 pm

I've done a little online searching to find out more about the police news conference held on Nov. 6, 2007 after the arrest of Knox, Sollecito, and Lumumba. Here is a compilation, with one Italian news report included, as well as the Newsweek article LondonJohn provided in his earlier post on ISF.

I think that there can be no doubt that the police considered (or pretended for the press) that Knox had "buckled" (or "collapsed" or "crumbled"; the Italian verb is "crollare") during an interrogation, confirming their hypotheses (that is, unreasonable guesses) of how the crime occurred.

All the Italian courts, starting with the Gemelli CSC panel, also considered that Knox was a suspect during the Nov. 5/6 interrogation. Gemelli may have considered that she became a suspect with the first statement, while Boninsegna may have considered that she became a suspect with the police seizure, without warrant, of her phone. VQA Giobbi testified that Knox and Sollecito were suspects before being interrogated on Nov. 5.

The only persons claiming Knox and Sollecito were simply witnesses and not suspects appears to be some anonymous online posters.

Here are the news articles I found; translation of the Italian is by Google translate with help from Collins Reverso and me:

"Ms Knox crumbled under questioning," the Perugia police chief, Arturo De Felice, said yesterday.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/nov ... ly.ukcrime

"Initially the American gave a version of events we knew was not correct," Perugia police chief Arturo de Felice told reporters. "She buckled and made an admission of facts we knew were correct and from that we were able to bring them all in. They all participated but had different roles."

Source: http://www.newsweek.com/perugias-extrem ... rder-97137

“Studentessa uccisa, crolla l'amica
"Verosimile il movente sessuale"
L'accusa, per tutti, è di concorso in omicidio volontario e concorso in violenza sessuale
Gli inquirenti: "Intenti di sopraffazione ai quali la giovane ha provato a ribellarsi"

PERUGIA - Svolta nelle indagini sull'assassinio di Meredith Kercher, la studentessa inglese uccisa a Perugia nella notte fra l'1 e il 2 novembre. Questa mattina, all'alba, tre persone sono state condotte in Questura e sottoposte a fermo: si tratta dellla coinquilina americana della vittima, una studentessa di 20 anni, Amanda Knox, del suo fidanzato, il barese Raffaele Sollecito, 24 anni, di un cittadino congolese, Patrick Diya Lumumba, 37 anni: sarebbe stata la Knox a "crollare", fornendo agli investigatori le indicazioni su quanto accaduto quella notte. Ma sarebbe anche responsabile di aver alterato la scena del delitto. L'accusa, per tutti, è di concorso in omicidio volontario e concorso in violenza sessuale.

"Verosimile il movente sessuale". Nel corso di una conferenza stampa che si è tenuta in Questura, il questore di Perugia, Arturo De Felice, ha definito "verosimile il movente sessuale". Al momento, ha aggiunto, "non possiamo dire di più, solo che tutti e tre hanno partecipato al fatto, che c'è condivisione di responsabilità, e che la giovane Meredith era moralmente integerrima": non sono infatti state rinvenute tracce di droghe né di alcolici. "E' stata una vittima, e basta", ha precisato il questore.
….
Qualcosa però emerge: a mettere sulla pista giusta gli inquirenti sarebbe stata Amanda Marie Knox, caduta più volte in contraddizione durante l'interrogatorio.”
_________

A student killed, her friend collapses {buckles, crumbles}
"Probably a sexual motive"
The accusation, for all, is complicity in voluntary murder and complicity in sexual violence
Investigators: "They had the intention of overpowering the young woman who tried to resist"

PERUGIA - An investigation into the murder of Meredith Kercher, the English student who was killed in Perugia on the night between 1 and 2 November, has been ongoing. This morning, at dawn, three people were taken to the Questura {police station} and arrested: they are the victim's American roommate, a 20-year-old student, Amanda Knox; her boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito, 24; and a Congolese citizen, Patrick Diya Lumumba, 37. It was Knox that "collapsed", providing investigators with information on what happened that night. But she would also be responsible for altering the scene of the crime. The accusation, for all, is complicity in voluntary murder and complicity in sexual violence.

"Probably the sexual motive". During a press conference held in the Questura, the Chief of Police of Perugia, Arturo De Felice, sai d "the motive was probably sexual". At the moment, he added, "we can not say more, only that all three participated in the fact {crime}; there is shared responsibility. And the young Meredith was morally upright": no traces of drugs or of alcohol were found. "She was a victim, that's all," the Police Chief said.
....
Something however emerges: the investigators were put on the right track when Amanda Marie Knox fell several times into contradictions during the interrogation {questioning}.”

Source: http://www.repubblica.it/2007/11/sezion ... stura.html
(6 novembre 2007)
Expert witness testimony must be the product of reliable principles and methods. {Paraphrase of Fed. Rules of Evidence 702c}
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby erasmus44 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:46 am

Numbers wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Numbers wrote:Why is the UK known as the “libel tourism” capitol of the world? Aside from a “no win, no fee” contingency, damages awarded to libel claimants are high. As the term suggests, libel tourism is the practice of non-UK citizens or companies using UK courts for defamation cases because existing laws in the British Commonwealth favor plaintiffs. However, since the passing of the UK Defamation Act of 2013, libel tourism is expected to decrease."


The most famous libel case is probably David Irving v Penguin Books Ltd
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_v_ ... _Books_Ltd


This paragraph from the cited Wikipedia article sums up the difference in UK compared to US law at the time of Irving's suit. I am unsure of the details of the changes resulting from the UK Defamation Act of 2013*.

"Irving's decision to file his lawsuit in the English courts gave him the upper hand by shifting the burden of proof. Under American libel law, a public figure who claims to have been libelled must prove that the statements in question are defamatory, that they are false, and that they were made with actual malice or with reckless disregard for their truth or falsity. Furthermore, reliance on reliable sources (even if they prove false) is a valid defence. In contrast, English libel law requires only that the claimant show that the statements are defamatory. The burden of proof falls on the defendant to prove that the statements were substantially true, and reliance on sources is irrelevant."

* So here are some references:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation_Act_2013
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... ts/enacted
{also available as a PDF}



I think Evelyn Waugh wrote once that - anytime I am short of funds, I can just pick someone to sue for libel, it's a nice thing to fall back on. The UK should really clean this up.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby erasmus44 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:06 am

The evidence is overwhelming that she was a suspect (probably "the" suspect) at the time of the questioning. That's what makes the failure to record the session particularly outrageous. It is also pretty clear that sometime earlier that day the police become focused on the threesome of Amanda, RS, and Patrick and everything else was a product of confirmation bias. Confirmation bias was so strong that they kept Lumumba in prison after Amanda totally retracted her accusation. If he hadn't had an airtight alibi he would still be in prison. They locked into a theory early and nothing could dynamite them out of that position.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Bill Williams » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:32 am

erasmus44 wrote:The evidence is overwhelming that she was a suspect (probably "the" suspect) at the time of the questioning. That's what makes the failure to record the session particularly outrageous. It is also pretty clear that sometime earlier that day the police become focused on the threesome of Amanda, RS, and Patrick and everything else was a product of confirmation bias. Confirmation bias was so strong that they kept Lumumba in prison after Amanda totally retracted her accusation. If he hadn't had an airtight alibi he would still be in prison. They locked into a theory early and nothing could dynamite them out of that position.

As a random aside.....

.... it is simply a matter of the record, so it seems, that all three of Lumumba, Sollecito and Knox were suspects well before Sollecito was called in on the night of Nov 5 for questioning. If nothing else, when they asked him to surrender his Nike's it was clear he was a suspect.

If Lumumba, Sollecito and Knox had, in fact, been the killers, then no one (10 years later) would be complaining that the police used "unorthodox tactics" to entrap them. More's the better if they had been guilty - only the most hard-headed of libertarian would have seen any problem with that. "So the cops had to slap the girl up the back of the head, she was lucky they didn't beat her to a pulp like the threatened Sollecito with."

Funny that. The reason libertarians get their knickers in a knot is because perhaps 99 times the cops actually do have the right people in front of them getting a well-natured slap or two.

It's that time when they have the wrong people that it is obvious that the libertarians are right. And here's the deal - unless everyone is treated as-if there's a possibility they could be innocence, and as-if there's a possibility that 7 1/2 years later a Supreme Court is going to make us look like doofuses - the only remedy is to afford all those rights to everyone.

Back-peddle to Mignini's interview with CNN's Drew Griffin in 2010, or with the NetFlix guys in 2016. It's pretty obvious that Mignini has been backpeddling ever since he and Napoleoni did not listen to Marco Chiacchiera in the early morning hours of Nov 6, 2007 - let the three go, observe them, and try to collect some actual evidence.

Chiacchiera was soon to head off to other investigations - but my bet is that he has a large "I told you so" waiting to say to some people....
    “The only way I can pay back for what fate and society have handed me is to try, in minor totally useless ways, to make an angry sound against injustice.”
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby ScifiTom » Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:21 am

To everyone

Hey everyone it that time again to pick the Tony Awards even now it going to be much harder this time, even yes Kevin Spacey will host the show, and yes I am the 2015 defending champion of picking Fun Home & The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time.

http://www.tonyawards.com/en_US/broadwa ... index.html

As knowing I didn't win last year, even I should had. But today here are my choices of who I think that should get pick for Best Musical & Best Play. The whole thing has been change even I only play dirty to win it and to prove it, and here!!!

Best play: A Doll house part 2, August Wilson Jittney, Heisenberg, The Glass Menigers & The Little Foxes

Best Musical: Anastasia, A Bronx Tale, Cirque du Soleil Paramour, Dear Evan Hansan & Hello Dolly

This is where I am going to leave it and it my final choice of words and you too can go to the link of site and pick your choice before May 2, 2017. They are going to annouce the nomination and good luck if you can beat the 2015 champion!!!
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby erasmus44 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:26 pm

Thinking back on it - I could never get over the failure to record the interrogations, destroying the hard drives, failure to take the victim's body temperature for 11 hours, the HIV scam, the leaks to the press, the resistance to turning over the DNA data files, the "lucky" discovery of the knife and the bra clasp.........this was really a railroad job from day one. We are very fortunate that it was perpetrated by a group of incompetents.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:10 pm

Bill Williams wrote:Funny that. The reason libertarians get their knickers in a knot is because perhaps 99 times the cops actually do have the right people in front of them getting a well-natured slap or two.


Low ball estimates are that 5% of people in prison for serious crimes are innocent with high ball numbers as high as 15 to 20%.
Since some of the convictions are based on overwhelming evidence - found with the gun pointing at the victim for example - I would argue that any kind of strong arm tactics are probably not much better than 50%.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby ScifiTom » Mon May 01, 2017 9:16 am

erasmus44 wrote:Thinking back on it - I could never get over the failure to record the interrogations, destroying the hard drives, failure to take the victim's body temperature for 11 hours, the HIV scam, the leaks to the press, the resistance to turning over the DNA data files, the "lucky" discovery of the knife and the bra clasp.........this was really a railroad job from day one. We are very fortunate that it was perpetrated by a group of incompetents.


To Erasmus

Hey Erasmus, can we skip the railroad case for once in a life time, and let focus on the Tony Nomination Awards. I am getting really excited that they are going to annouce them tomorrow morning at 8:30am I and going to tell about it in the ISF/JREF forum. So anyway if you want to know right now, go to that thread and I already made my choice who I am picking for Best Play & Best Musical even I am the 2015 defending champion to pick the right Best Play & Best Musical. I didn't win last year. I am waiting to find out who it is and see the nomination of it and talk to you soon Erasmus!!!
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Bruce Fischer » Thu May 04, 2017 10:34 am

Op-Ed Amanda Knox: Donald Trump supported me when I was wrongly accused of murder. What do I owe him?

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-knox-trump-loyalty-20170504-story.html

I happen to think that Trump was just thumping his chest as an American who wanted to save the pretty girl locked away in an evil foreign prison. He emulated the stereotype that was put on many of us by the pro-guilt crowd. With that said, the attention was appreciated at the time. His views on the wrongfully convicted here in America suggest that he would not have supported Amanda had she been wrongfully convicted in the US.

This is not normally a political forum, but seeing as this article deals with the subject, it's not really off-topic to discuss here. People from all backgrounds came together to help Amanda and Raffaele because something was terribly wrong. People didn't look to change anyone's personal views on life in general. Many people who do not Share Amanda's political views came forward to help because it was the right thing to do.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Mediocrates » Thu May 04, 2017 8:53 pm

Similarly, Casey Anthony went to an Anti-Trump Rally:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/02/07/c ... ly-florida

But what about Jodi Arias? I'm sure her opinions about Trump's policies matter just as much. :facepalm:
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Zrausch » Thu May 04, 2017 9:28 pm

Mediocrates wrote:Similarly, Casey Anthony went to an Anti-Trump Rally:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/02/07/c ... ly-florida

But what about Jodi Arias? I'm sure her opinions about Trump's policies matter just as much. :facepalm:


Knox's views on Trump seem to matter to....the president of the united states....

What are you gonna do with yourself Jackie. The guilter position fades by the day. History is never going to judge Knox a murderer. Just you and your pals carrying the dream to your dying days.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Mediocrates » Thu May 04, 2017 10:26 pm

Zrausch wrote: History is never going to judge Knox a murderer.



“History is a set of lies agreed upon.”


― Napoléon Bonaparte



(Personally, however, I don't think this is always the case ... and there's nothing wrong with trying to figure out where the truth really lies. The main event is over but there are related suits and appeals yet to come. I hope they will shed some light on the truth, whatever it may be.)
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Zrausch » Thu May 04, 2017 10:53 pm

Mediocrates wrote:and there's nothing wrong with trying to figure out where the truth really lies.

Meredith was probably killed by the guy with the DNA from her rapekit whose footprints surrounded her, and who had a history of breaking into places the exact way the cottage was broken into.

There is tiny improbable chance something else happened, with an even more insignificant sliver of that being the students pulling off some bizzaro perfect murder.

That's the jist of it. Rudy spilled the whole tale when he didn't think it mattered and was chatting with his friend, just replace the obviously made up bushy hair stranger with himself.

The main event is over but there are related suits and appeals yet to come. I hope they will shed some light on the truth, whatever it may be.)


The only relevant court is the ECHR. They will, in clear and straight forward non-Italian language (in more ways than one), crucify the police and prosecutor for their actions during the interrogation. You will claim they just declared it legally impossible to interrogate a criminal, as if beating a statement out of a clueless suspect in the middle of the night with no recording is a valid police procedure not designed to elicit false statements.


Nothing will change really, except we'll have an even larger barrier of official rulings to watch you guilters stumble over to our amusement because this simple straight forward wrongful conviction broke your brains.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Mediocrates » Thu May 04, 2017 11:35 pm

A. I have no doubt that Guede is as guilty as sin.

B. I want to learn more about what really happened in the interrogations of K and S, and I hope the related actions and appeals will shed some light (simple math tells me that K was not interrogated for '53 hours straight' while being subjected to vicious "beatings" - on the contrary, it seems the latest Italian ruling asserted that the police were too "nice" to K! :facepalm: )

I would like to see whether some of the brighter pro-defense posters can advance arguments that do not rely on misrepresentations, scientific illiteracy or ignorance of the law. Dr. Halkides seems to be doing well today by conceding that RS's DNA was probably on the clasp (in accord with the findings of Dr. Balding). Now we have to decide how it got there.

We must make a choice between:

(1) a lower* probability tertiary (or greater) transfer via sloppy police; and

(2) a higher probability primary or secondary transfer via struggles in the course of a fight/murder and/or staging.

I would be inclined to choose (1) if there were NO other inculpatory evidence.

But RS lied to police, offering them no less than 5 different alibis (according to the court that denied his compensation claim).

It's hard to choose the lower* probability scenario (1) over the higher probability scenario (2), given that he offered false alibis (and even lied about having cooked for the victim).

A Scenario (1) argument is further weakened by:

a) the apparent absence of K's DNA in the murder room (if sloppy police were dragging in DNA from outside the murder room, K's DNA would be far more likely to be just lying around for such transfer because K lived in that cottage for many weeks, whereas S only entered it twice for a brief time); &

b) the apparent absence, IIRC, of S's DNA on the floors and seats of his own car (if he didn't shed DNA all over his own car, why did he shed it in a cottage he only entered twice for a brief time?)


* even with ideal transfer surfaces (smooth, non-porous, hard, clean glass, possibly with some condensation), the study by G & van O, showed tertiary (or greater) transfer was a relatively LOW probability event. For example, in an analysis of the table top, only 16.7% of the samples showed a tertiary transfer from one of the other participants, and only 2 of the samples showed a tertiary tranfser from both of the other participants:

Mariya Goray, Roland A.H. van Oorschot "The complexities of DNA transfer during a social setting" Legal Medicine 17 (2015) 82-91
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Zrausch » Thu May 04, 2017 11:44 pm

The reason none of us foakers take the bra clasp result seriously is because the crime was obviously committed by Rudy and there's no connection between him and Raff, so the bra clasp result must be something, anything else. It's really that simple. The science is for the geeks.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Mediocrates » Thu May 04, 2017 11:57 pm

One could well argue that K is the link.

Both S and G were hot for her.

Did one or both of them come to K's aid in a drug-fueled cat fight with MK???

(Shades of Reid Schepis?)
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Zrausch » Thu May 04, 2017 11:59 pm

There were no drugs. AK and RS had no drugs in their system. Had no wounds from fighting. Rudy Guede on the other hand had wounds on his hands, kind of like OJ. I wonder what happened :roll:

You're stuck on a totally stupid case.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Mediocrates » Fri May 05, 2017 12:02 am

They both admitted to imbibing street drugs of unknown purity on the night of the murder.

K also admitted to bleeding from her ear ... and had a bruise on her throat (hickey or finger jab?) ...

(If A is attacked by B, C and D, wherein D does most of the restraining while B & C do the knife work, I wouldn't expect to see much damage to B or C, but D might get some damage to his hands as the blade(s) of B and C swipe away at a struggling/ moving/ desperate A.)

You're right! I am stuck trying to figure this one out ... and it seems the Italian courts are stuck, too ... they don't seem to be able to decide on the interrogation (one court says the incriminating statements were voluntary, another said they were the result of the 'obsessive length' of the interviews, and now we have one court saying they were the result of too much kindness :facepalm: )
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Zrausch » Fri May 05, 2017 12:20 am

Mediocrates wrote:They both admitted to imbibing street drugs of unknown purity on the night of the murder.

K also admitted to bleeding from her ear ... and had a bruise on her throat (hickey or finger jab?) ...


They were both face to face with multiple cops within like ~ 12 hours of the murder. Then they were stripped searched and examined by a doctor.

Rudy had cuts on his hand he voluntarily claimed were from the murder weapon. And eyewitness described him pulling a knife when provoked. He was arrested for having stolen property from a break-in featuring a two story climb up a wall to a window bashed open with a "very heavy" rock. He was spotted on CCTV snooping around the cottage, alone, before AK even knew she wouldn't be working her shift that night. He confessed to a friend that he was there alone with Meredith before the attack and as she died and that the media reports about AK being there were false (despite the fact that the media reports claimed they had her confession, and the murder weapon, and DNA, and Rudy somehow was confident none of that mattered hmm I wonder why).

What's so interesting about this case is how un-interesting it is.

The cops think Amanda did it because Mignini's fat butt couldn't imagine anyone climbing up that window, leaving only an occupant staging it, and she pointed out the poop which means it was suspect #2, and it didn't match Raff, which means suspect #3, and she texted her boss "see you late (tonight)" wow caso chiuso just beat a confession to get an arrest and oh he was innocent well she confessed so it's her fault we'll build our next case around her...And you guys really ate it all up. Tasty.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Mediocrates » Fri May 05, 2017 12:29 am

As I said, I think Guede is as guilty as they come.

But G partied with K and said he was hot for K, and started out covering for K, but seems to have backed away from that as soon as it was apparent to all that K was not returning the favor (FOA's Ciolino lying to the world about how K never laid eyes on G, etc.).

It's always been my understanding that the pro-guilt argument about the window was NOT that it was humanly impossible, but that it was difficult (and, therefore, an illogical/ unlikely entry point).
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Zrausch » Fri May 05, 2017 12:34 am

Mediocrates wrote:As I said, I think Guede is as guilty as they come.

But G partied with K and said he was hot for K, and started out covering for K, but seems to have backed away from that as soon as it was apparent to all that K was not returning the favor (FOA's Ciolino lying to the world about how K never laid eyes on G, etc.).


Well you keep at it. You'll crack this case. The Italians, maybe they can write another brilliant enlightening report. Maybe the mafia connections will be investigated? So much could happen...Good luck.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Mediocrates » Fri May 05, 2017 12:42 am

Hey, man, I'm just watching from the cheap seats. I'm now doubting I'll ever see something clear coming out of Italy, but hope springs eternal. Some cases are more interesting than others and I think this one is up there with OJ and Casey Anthony, but ... not many agree. Attention spans are short, and this legal saga is testing not just attention spans but LIFE spans. If S's latest suit goes to the appellate level, even he'll be pushing 40.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Zrausch » Fri May 05, 2017 12:57 am

LOL. Have you ever actually concluded someone was wrongfully convicted? Aside from like....witch trials in the 1600s (maybe... haha jk!)

I was watching this show on Hulu with the girl from Mad Men and its got like a dystopia future setting and theres a trial but all it is is the judge asking the prosecutor "Do you swear everything you allege is accurate" and he says "Yes your honor" then the judge goes "In that case we find the accused guilty and sentence them to the off colony." thats the whole trial. and I was thinking...wow this is Jackie's dream system.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Mediocrates » Fri May 05, 2017 1:05 am

Totally! I feel sick looking at what happened to Ryan Fergusen and Russ Faria! Shameful!

I'm pretty sure something horrible happened to Avery and Dassey (the interrogation video of Dassey makes my blood boil!)

I think the 'kayak killer' case is pathetic and look forward to seeing the prosecution fail hard on that one.

I could go on and on.

In fact, I'm even reconsidering my once very strong feelings about OJ (I watched a documentary that pointed the finger at his son and found it rather compelling ...)

I'm not a monster. I don't want to see anyone wrongfully convicted!!! (But I don't want to see the guilty go free either.)
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Zrausch » Fri May 05, 2017 1:15 am

Mediocrates wrote:Totally! I feel sick looking at what happened to Ryan Fergusen and Russ Faria! Shameful!

I'm pretty sure something horrible happened to Avery and Dassey (the interrogation video of Dassey makes my blood boil!)

I think the 'kayak killer' case is pathetic and look forward to seeing the prosecution fail hard on that one.

I could go on and on.


Lol very convincing.

*reading the wiki on the Ferguson case*

Image
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Zrausch » Fri May 05, 2017 1:22 am

Mediocrates wrote:(But I don't want to see the guilty go free either.)


If the prosecution really believed Knox was the mastermind killer, they had infinite leverage against Guede to work out a deal to corroborate her involvement. Obviously my view is the prosecution knew Guede knew nothing, but if i were PGP that would be the obvious way to go.

It works.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby NotEvenWrong » Fri May 05, 2017 9:06 am

Don't know much detail about the Ferguson case, but according to wikipedia Ferguson and Erickson recanted their confessions and claim they were coerced by police. That is indeed a bummer!

So I guess the lesson to learn here is that false confessions do indeed happen and people can be coerced by police. Unless of course it happened in a foreign country where you don't know the language, are smacked on the head until you tell the police what they want to hear, interrogated over the course of... 50+ hours (or whatever it was). And also if it happens to an attractive woman who has sex because that probably makes her a witch or at the very least a demon.

Those tabloids are indeed convincing. I can see why we're on the fence about this Knox Samhain murder ritual thing.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby ScifiTom » Fri May 05, 2017 9:23 am

Bruce Fischer wrote: Op-Ed Amanda Knox: Donald Trump supported me when I was wrongly accused of murder. What do I owe him?

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-knox-trump-loyalty-20170504-story.html

I happen to think that Trump was just thumping his chest as an American who wanted to save the pretty girl locked away in an evil foreign prison. He emulated the stereotype that was put on many of us by the pro-guilt crowd. With that said, the attention was appreciated at the time. His views on the wrongfully convicted here in America suggest that he would not have supported Amanda had she been wrongfully convicted in the US.

This is not normally a political forum, but seeing as this article deals with the subject, it's not really off-topic to discuss here. People from all backgrounds came together to help Amanda and Raffaele because something was terribly wrong. People didn't look to change anyone's personal views on life in general. Many people who do not Share Amanda's political views came forward to help because it was the right thing to do.


To Bruce

Hey Bruce, in my own opinion! I don't get what wrong with Trump problem, even when he first supported Amanda Knox of wrongful convicted of murder. I only supported Amanda with the NBA kissing game of hey let kiss. Through the kiss cam, and when Italy show that kissing cam, of Fox News, CNN news and all news station and I ask myself. WHAT FREAKING WRONG WITH YOU! NEWS!!!

I was like why did the news do some kissing part and make it sex game go wrong and it made no sense to me, even she was totally innocent. I wasn't sure of Raffaele, even I only believe Amanda instead. I only wanted Amanda Knox case out and I was going to ignore Raffaele. I only believe on Amanda and just Amanda and only Amanda. But back on Trump when he was going to run for president. I was like seriously your running for president and even I wouldn't vote for him or Hilary and why I hate Hilary so much because I will give you detail and more detail on that part. Why I hated both of them. I really wanted Mark Rubio to win the election and come the next president of 2016, and it was just me, even I was so shock that Trump won the election. I never saw it coming even when I was in Ireland and I was shock by it!!!

But then Trump got mad at Amanda for not voting for him. Hey Trump I didn't vote for you or Hilary. I only voted for a dog. Sorry it just me. What wrong with a dog being a president. It not going to kill you. Some people are babies and it bother you! Grow UP! I love it, even I would had voted for Anne Hathaway instead, of being human. But my dad wanted me to vote for liberal, and I am not into that part. Liberal stinks and it BLANKIT IT stupid to me. I only saw a connect and it was called: The Rainbow connection and I voted for Rainbow connection. My mom was going to vote for me, instead. I know my dad has different taste in politics. He thinks criminal minds is better for liberal to be a president. I just don't agree with him on that part.

But Bruce if you want update on my dad with Cancer updated. It going slow even he not eating his food. But chemo 5 is going to start on Monday 5/8/17!!!
TMJ

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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby ScifiTom » Fri May 05, 2017 9:49 am

Mediocrates wrote:Totally! I feel sick looking at what happened to Ryan Ferguson!

I think the 'kayak killer' case is pathetic and look forward to seeing the prosecution fail hard on that one.

I could go on and on.

I'm not a monster. I don't want to see anyone wrongfully convicted!!! (But I don't want to see the guilty go free either.)


To Mediocrates

Hey Mediocrates, I am sorry you feel sick of Ryan Ferguson, or you think the Kayak Killer case is pathetic &! You're saying your not a monster!!!

Well Medicrates I got news flash for you, that I support 3 or 4 people of wrongful convicted of murder even I am looking for someone wrongful convicted of murder in the West coast. I only got 3 from Greenwich Ct, New Orelean st Lousina, Las Vegas Neveda & I am looking for someone innocent in Seattle Washington, Idaho, Wymong or Oregon!!!

About of a monster. I go through pain of terrible pain of being called a monster, and it hurts me very badly in tears and this is how I get hurt by it: ::cry:: :((: :boxedin: and some people don't get me of why I am hurt in real life form of being a retarded monster and here are those faces too: :confused: :jaw-dropping: :confused: :shocked: :roll:

You got to understand people have different taste and I am one of them of being deaf in real life and it is hard for me to speak to people. It very hard for me, because someone can't understand me one bit or how I go RAMPAGE into bad angry :curse: :curse: :curse: of bad ways!!!
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Bruce Fischer » Fri May 05, 2017 5:25 pm

NotEvenWrong wrote:Don't know much detail about the Ferguson case, but according to wikipedia Ferguson and Erickson recanted their confessions and claim they were coerced by police. That is indeed a bummer!

So I guess the lesson to learn here is that false confessions do indeed happen and people can be coerced by police. Unless of course it happened in a foreign country where you don't know the language, are smacked on the head until you tell the police what they want to hear, interrogated over the course of... 50+ hours (or whatever it was). And also if it happens to an attractive woman who has sex because that probably makes her a witch or at the very least a demon.

Those tabloids are indeed convincing. I can see why we're on the fence about this Knox Samhain murder ritual thing.


Ryan Ferguson never confessed. He stated he was innocent from day one and never wavered. Charles Erickson's case is a bit more complicated. He is innocent as well. http://www.freecharleserickson.org
"This could happen to any one of you. If you don't believe it could happen, you are either misinformed or in a state of deep denial" -- Debra Milke
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Bruce Fischer » Fri May 05, 2017 5:28 pm

ScifiTom wrote:
Bruce Fischer wrote: Op-Ed Amanda Knox: Donald Trump supported me when I was wrongly accused of murder. What do I owe him?

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-knox-trump-loyalty-20170504-story.html

I happen to think that Trump was just thumping his chest as an American who wanted to save the pretty girl locked away in an evil foreign prison. He emulated the stereotype that was put on many of us by the pro-guilt crowd. With that said, the attention was appreciated at the time. His views on the wrongfully convicted here in America suggest that he would not have supported Amanda had she been wrongfully convicted in the US.

This is not normally a political forum, but seeing as this article deals with the subject, it's not really off-topic to discuss here. People from all backgrounds came together to help Amanda and Raffaele because something was terribly wrong. People didn't look to change anyone's personal views on life in general. Many people who do not Share Amanda's political views came forward to help because it was the right thing to do.


To Bruce

Hey Bruce, in my own opinion! I don't get what wrong with Trump problem, even when he first supported Amanda Knox of wrongful convicted of murder. I only supported Amanda with the NBA kissing game of hey let kiss. Through the kiss cam, and when Italy show that kissing cam, of Fox News, CNN news and all news station and I ask myself. WHAT FREAKING WRONG WITH YOU! NEWS!!!

I was like why did the news do some kissing part and make it sex game go wrong and it made no sense to me, even she was totally innocent. I wasn't sure of Raffaele, even I only believe Amanda instead. I only wanted Amanda Knox case out and I was going to ignore Raffaele. I only believe on Amanda and just Amanda and only Amanda. But back on Trump when he was going to run for president. I was like seriously your running for president and even I wouldn't vote for him or Hilary and why I hate Hilary so much because I will give you detail and more detail on that part. Why I hated both of them. I really wanted Mark Rubio to win the election and come the next president of 2016, and it was just me, even I was so shock that Trump won the election. I never saw it coming even when I was in Ireland and I was shock by it!!!

But then Trump got mad at Amanda for not voting for him. Hey Trump I didn't vote for you or Hilary. I only voted for a dog. Sorry it just me. What wrong with a dog being a president. It not going to kill you. Some people are babies and it bother you! Grow UP! I love it, even I would had voted for Anne Hathaway instead, of being human. But my dad wanted me to vote for liberal, and I am not into that part. Liberal stinks and it BLANKIT IT stupid to me. I only saw a connect and it was called: The Rainbow connection and I voted for Rainbow connection. My mom was going to vote for me, instead. I know my dad has different taste in politics. He thinks criminal minds is better for liberal to be a president. I just don't agree with him on that part.

But Bruce if you want update on my dad with Cancer updated. It going slow even he not eating his food. But chemo 5 is going to start on Monday 5/8/17!!!


I think you probably made the right choice by voting for a dog! :)

Thank you for the update on your dad. I wish him all the best.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Samson » Fri May 05, 2017 7:25 pm

Bruce Fischer wrote: Op-Ed Amanda Knox: Donald Trump supported me when I was wrongly accused of murder. What do I owe him?

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-knox-trump-loyalty-20170504-story.html

I happen to think that Trump was just thumping his chest as an American who wanted to save the pretty girl locked away in an evil foreign prison. He emulated the stereotype that was put on many of us by the pro-guilt crowd. With that said, the attention was appreciated at the time. His views on the wrongfully convicted here in America suggest that he would not have supported Amanda had she been wrongfully convicted in the US.

This is not normally a political forum, but seeing as this article deals with the subject, it's not really off-topic to discuss here. People from all backgrounds came together to help Amanda and Raffaele because something was terribly wrong. People didn't look to change anyone's personal views on life in general. Many people who do not Share Amanda's political views came forward to help because it was the right thing to do.

I think it may be that a wider syndrome is in play, where it is easier for outsiders from a country to see nonsense in another country.
Take the Lundy case for example, 94% of NZers think he is guilty, but from America you people can see straight through it. I happen to think the Bamber case is straightforward, but the establishment in England happily keep him locked up. So Trump could easily believe Italians are bumbling incompetents, less so his own people.
Justice is an issue not a word. Find one issue that isn't fair and change that, and that's justice.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Mediocrates » Sat May 06, 2017 12:56 pm

What a shock: the poster who tried to defend using the 'N-word' is a fan of trump :roll eyes:

(Is there a medical term for someone who thinks EVERY conviction is "wrongful"? Samsonian Fever? GeeBee Syndrome?)
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Mediocrates » Sat May 06, 2017 1:11 pm

ScifiTom wrote:
Mediocrates wrote:Totally! I feel sick looking at what happened to Ryan Ferguson!

I think the 'kayak killer' case is pathetic and look forward to seeing the prosecution fail hard on that one.

I could go on and on.

I'm not a monster. I don't want to see anyone wrongfully convicted!!! (But I don't want to see the guilty go free either.)


To Mediocrates

Hey Mediocrates, I am sorry you feel sick of Ryan Ferguson, or you think the Kayak Killer case is pathetic &! You're saying your not a monster!!!

Well Medicrates I got news flash for you, that I support 3 or 4 people of wrongful convicted of murder even I am looking for someone wrongful convicted of murder in the West coast. I only got 3 from Greenwich Ct, New Orelean st Lousina, Las Vegas Neveda & I am looking for someone innocent in Seattle Washington, Idaho, Wymong or Oregon!!!

About of a monster. I go through pain of terrible pain of being called a monster, and it hurts me very badly in tears and this is how I get hurt by it: ::cry:: :((: :boxedin: and some people don't get me of why I am hurt in real life form of being a retarded monster and here are those faces too: :confused: :jaw-dropping: :confused: :shocked: :roll:

You got to understand people have different taste and I am one of them of being deaf in real life and it is hard for me to speak to people. It very hard for me, because someone can't understand me one bit or how I go RAMPAGE into bad angry :curse: :curse: :curse: of bad ways!!!


Hi, Tom :wave:

I think you misread me. I am not sick of Ryan Fergusen. I am sickened by what happened to him.

The "confession" his "friend" gave the police doomed the both of them and appears to have been the product of a disturbed mind (drugs? mental illness? both?).

This is certainly one instance where the police, prosecutors and courts failed to identify a worthless "confession".

In any event, I am sorry to learn of your troubles and I wish you and your Dad all the best. Keep your hopes up - Modern medicine can do wonderful things.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Desert Fox » Sat May 06, 2017 2:47 pm

Mediocrates wrote:
ScifiTom wrote:
Mediocrates wrote:Totally! I feel sick looking at what happened to Ryan Ferguson!

I think the 'kayak killer' case is pathetic and look forward to seeing the prosecution fail hard on that one.

I could go on and on.

I'm not a monster. I don't want to see anyone wrongfully convicted!!! (But I don't want to see the guilty go free either.)


To Mediocrates

Hey Mediocrates, I am sorry you feel sick of Ryan Ferguson, or you think the Kayak Killer case is pathetic &! You're saying your not a monster!!!

Well Medicrates I got news flash for you, that I support 3 or 4 people of wrongful convicted of murder even I am looking for someone wrongful convicted of murder in the West coast. I only got 3 from Greenwich Ct, New Orelean st Lousina, Las Vegas Neveda & I am looking for someone innocent in Seattle Washington, Idaho, Wymong or Oregon!!!

About of a monster. I go through pain of terrible pain of being called a monster, and it hurts me very badly in tears and this is how I get hurt by it: ::cry:: :((: :boxedin: and some people don't get me of why I am hurt in real life form of being a retarded monster and here are those faces too: :confused: :jaw-dropping: :confused: :shocked: :roll:

You got to understand people have different taste and I am one of them of being deaf in real life and it is hard for me to speak to people. It very hard for me, because someone can't understand me one bit or how I go RAMPAGE into bad angry :curse: :curse: :curse: of bad ways!!!


Hi, Tom :wave:

I think you misread me. I am not sick of Ryan Fergusen. I am sickened by what happened to him.

The "confession" his "friend" gave the police doomed the both of them and appears to have been the product of a disturbed mind (drugs? mental illness? both?).

This is certainly one instance where the police, prosecutors and courts failed to identify a worthless "confession".

In any event, I am sorry to learn of your troubles and I wish you and your Dad all the best. Keep your hopes up - Modern medicine can do wonderful things.


If you want to look into worthless confessions, look into the Norfolk Four.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby ScifiTom » Sat May 06, 2017 8:25 pm

Mediocrates wrote:
ScifiTom wrote:
Mediocrates wrote:Totally! I feel sick looking at what happened to Ryan Ferguson!

I think the 'kayak killer' case is pathetic and look forward to seeing the prosecution fail hard on that one.

I could go on and on.

I'm not a monster. I don't want to see anyone wrongfully convicted!!! (But I don't want to see the guilty go free either.)


To Mediocrates

Hey Mediocrates, I am sorry you feel sick of Ryan Ferguson, or you think the Kayak Killer case is pathetic &! You're saying your not a monster!!!

Well Medicrates I got news flash for you, that I support 3 or 4 people of wrongful convicted of murder even I am looking for someone wrongful convicted of murder in the West coast. I only got 3 from Greenwich Ct, New Orelean st Lousina, Las Vegas Neveda & I am looking for someone innocent in Seattle Washington, Idaho, Wymong or Oregon!!!

About of a monster. I go through pain of terrible pain of being called a monster, and it hurts me very badly in tears and this is how I get hurt by it: ::cry:: :((: :boxedin: and some people don't get me of why I am hurt in real life form of being a retarded monster and here are those faces too: :confused: :jaw-dropping: :confused: :shocked: :roll:

You got to understand people have different taste and I am one of them of being deaf in real life and it is hard for me to speak to people. It very hard for me, because someone can't understand me one bit or how I go RAMPAGE into bad angry :curse: :curse: :curse: of bad ways!!!


Hi, Tom :wave:

I think you misread me. I am not sick of Ryan Fergusen. I am sickened by what happened to him.

The "confession" his "friend" gave the police doomed the both of them and appears to have been the product of a disturbed mind (drugs? mental illness? both?).

This is certainly one instance where the police, prosecutors and courts failed to identify a worthless "confession".

In any event, I am sorry to learn of your troubles and I wish you and your Dad all the best. Keep your hopes up - Modern medicine can do wonderful things.


To Medicaties

Hey Medicaties, thanks anyway for the wishes and thank you for the wishes of my dad as well. Plus thanks for the hopes up too, even I am not a huge fan of medicine even in my own way. I think my way different even I do like the high hope or the low hope. No matter which it is for me. I know that I am not perfect in anything go term. I agree on a lot of things even I still support polygraph test can be tested even I believe that into a very important way, of why because people who take the test can past the test even they mit to lied or they never lied and they were telling the truth of there innocent and it good way to support. I take that for a very good reason, even I believe it. It who I am and it who I will be the rest of my life and no one going to change that, even I support different for a reason and thanks again and I am sorry I mis read you. But let be really honest into a whole new level, of why I am care here and why I do might act crazy even I am trying hard enough and that all and yes thanks again and talk to you soon Medicates!!!
TMJ

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Free: Kirstin Lobato, in Las Vegas NV
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby ScifiTom » Sat May 06, 2017 8:37 pm

Samson wrote:
Bruce Fischer wrote: Op-Ed Amanda Knox: Donald Trump supported me when I was wrongly accused of murder. What do I owe him?

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-knox-trump-loyalty-20170504-story.html

I happen to think that Trump was just thumping his chest as an American who wanted to save the pretty girl locked away in an evil foreign prison. He emulated the stereotype that was put on many of us by the pro-guilt crowd. With that said, the attention was appreciated at the time. His views on the wrongfully convicted here in America suggest that he would not have supported Amanda had she been wrongfully convicted in the US.

This is not normally a political forum, but seeing as this article deals with the subject, it's not really off-topic to discuss here. People from all backgrounds came together to help Amanda and Raffaele because something was terribly wrong. People didn't look to change anyone's personal views on life in general. Many people who do not Share Amanda's political views came forward to help because it was the right thing to do.

I think it may be that a wider syndrome is in play, where it is easier for outsiders from a country to see nonsense in another country.
Take the Lundy case for example, 94% of NZers think he is guilty, but from America you people can see straight through it. I happen to think the Bamber case is straightforward, but the establishment in England happily keep him locked up. So Trump could easily believe Italians are bumbling incompetents, less so his own people.


To Sam

Hey Sam, can I say this that if Trump could or will easily believe Italy are bumbling incompetents, less so his own people. A) I don't know what you mean? B) Or Trump was wise of saying: Hey let boycott Italy. I ask myself why not? I think that was a smart move even I sometimes thought why not take American Troops to bomb Italy. I know it not bright to do so. But I really did wanted something even I believe into the innocent and the whole case of Amanda Knox was sloppy Joe even it was a mess, and I never liked it one bit. I knew Amanda was innocent all along even there was no way she the killer at all. I believe the whole case could had something else into a connect. I really think they need to refresh the case and re open it. It kindly stupid of going backward and believe Amanda & Raffaele both guilty and that was sicken. I hope Italy use there head for a second time. I am not going to agree of Rudy innocent. He was the prime suspect and he guilty for sure even he being toast of hiding something. I really think they should re open the case even something is missing and it will be solved. The case is going to be cold for the rest of there lives and that all and talk to you soon Sam!!!
TMJ

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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby ScifiTom » Sat May 06, 2017 8:48 pm

Bruce Fischer wrote:
ScifiTom wrote:
Bruce Fischer wrote: Op-Ed Amanda Knox: Donald Trump supported me when I was wrongly accused of murder. What do I owe him?

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-knox-trump-loyalty-20170504-story.html

I happen to think that Trump was just thumping his chest as an American who wanted to save the pretty girl locked away in an evil foreign prison. He emulated the stereotype that was put on many of us by the pro-guilt crowd. With that said, the attention was appreciated at the time. His views on the wrongfully convicted here in America suggest that he would not have supported Amanda had she been wrongfully convicted in the US.

This is not normally a political forum, but seeing as this article deals with the subject, it's not really off-topic to discuss here. People from all backgrounds came together to help Amanda and Raffaele because something was terribly wrong. People didn't look to change anyone's personal views on life in general. Many people who do not Share Amanda's political views came forward to help because it was the right thing to do.


To Bruce

Hey Bruce, in my own opinion! I don't get what wrong with Trump problem, even when he first supported Amanda Knox of wrongful convicted of murder. I only supported Amanda with the NBA kissing game of hey let kiss. Through the kiss cam, and when Italy show that kissing cam, of Fox News, CNN news and all news station and I ask myself. WHAT FREAKING WRONG WITH YOU! NEWS!!!

I was like why did the news do some kissing part and make it sex game go wrong and it made no sense to me, even she was totally innocent. I wasn't sure of Raffaele, even I only believe Amanda instead. I only wanted Amanda Knox case out and I was going to ignore Raffaele. I only believe on Amanda and just Amanda and only Amanda. But back on Trump when he was going to run for president. I was like seriously your running for president and even I wouldn't vote for him or Hilary and why I hate Hilary so much because I will give you detail and more detail on that part. Why I hated both of them. I really wanted Mark Rubio to win the election and come the next president of 2016, and it was just me, even I was so shock that Trump won the election. I never saw it coming even when I was in Ireland and I was shock by it!!!

But then Trump got mad at Amanda for not voting for him. Hey Trump I didn't vote for you or Hilary. I only voted for a dog. Sorry it just me. What wrong with a dog being a president. It not going to kill you. Some people are babies and it bother you! Grow UP! I love it, even I would had voted for Anne Hathaway instead, of being human. But my dad wanted me to vote for liberal, and I am not into that part. Liberal stinks and it BLANKIT IT stupid to me. I only saw a connect and it was called: The Rainbow connection and I voted for Rainbow connection. My mom was going to vote for me, instead. I know my dad has different taste in politics. He thinks criminal minds is better for liberal to be a president. I just don't agree with him on that part.

But Bruce if you want update on my dad with Cancer updated. It going slow even he not eating his food. But chemo 5 is going to start on Monday 5/8/17!!!


I think you probably made the right choice by voting for a dog! :)

Thank you for the update on your dad. I wish him all the best.


To Bruce

Thanks Bruce and this will be my last topic of today, or tomorrow or who knows when it last. But anyway thanks again for the wishes and I am hoping my dad does get better. I know that Monday is chemo 5, and then comes chemo 6 next week. So we are trying to figure it out and see what happen even right now, there something new right now that my dad blood pressure is very high even that not so good, even what bother me, is that we need to get it back down even cancer treatment is or was never good in our family. My grandpa only survior for 5 month and my Aunt Betty survior for 2 month. So now it is 1 month and 1/2 even 3 more weeks will be 2 month. So it going to take a while even it moving good let hope. But it moving slow of him eating slow, and talk to you soon Bruce!!!
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby ScifiTom » Sat May 06, 2017 8:51 pm

Bruce Fischer wrote:
NotEvenWrong wrote:Don't know much detail about the Ferguson case, but according to wikipedia Ferguson and Erickson recanted their confessions and claim they were coerced by police. That is indeed a bummer!

So I guess the lesson to learn here is that false confessions do indeed happen and people can be coerced by police. Unless of course it happened in a foreign country where you don't know the language, are smacked on the head until you tell the police what they want to hear, interrogated over the course of... 50+ hours (or whatever it was). And also if it happens to an attractive woman who has sex because that probably makes her a witch or at the very least a demon.

Those tabloids are indeed convincing. I can see why we're on the fence about this Knox Samhain murder ritual thing.


Ryan Ferguson never confessed. He stated he was innocent from day one and never wavered. Charles Erickson's case is a bit more complicated. He is innocent as well. http://www.freecharleserickson.org


To Bruce

Your right Bruce he never confess, he always believe he was innocent even he believe that part and yes Charlies put him into a different tone and dangerous way of hurting Ryan and Charlies should had know better even Charles was innocent too. and it time for me to go and off to bed and goodnight Bruce and everyone!!!
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Bruce Fischer » Wed May 10, 2017 1:06 pm

GroundReport has been sold to a private investor. The site may live on afterall. I will post more when it becomes available.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Numbers » Fri May 12, 2017 7:10 am

A counter example from ECHR, Grand Chamber, that one's right to a lawyer during police custody may be lawfully limited, as long as no evidence from that period is used for a conviction and other rights are respected (from the press release, PDF available at HUDOC, and currently listed at ECHR home page http://echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=home):

Simeonovi v. Bulgaria (application no. 21980/04)

"The Court also found that Mr Simeonov’s right to legal assistance had been restricted for the first three days of his police custody, but that that restriction had not irremediably infringed the criminal proceedings as a whole. In particular, the Court noted that no evidence capable of being used against Mr Simeonov had been obtained and included in the criminal file during that period; that Mr Simeonov, assisted by a lawyer of his own choosing, had voluntarily confessed two weeks after being charged, when he had been informed of his procedural rights, including the privilege against self-incrimination; that Mr Simeonov had actively participated in all stages of the criminal proceedings; that his conviction had not been based solely on his confession but also on a whole body of consistent evidence; that the case had been assessed at three judicial levels and that the domestic courts had provided adequate reasons for their decisions in both factual and legal terms and had properly examined the issue of respect for procedural rights."
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby anonshy » Fri May 12, 2017 11:18 am

Numbers wrote:A counter example from ECHR, Grand Chamber, that one's right to a lawyer during police custody may be lawfully limited, as long as no evidence from that period is used for a conviction and other rights are respected (from the press release, PDF available at HUDOC, and currently listed at ECHR home page http://echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=home):

Simeonovi v. Bulgaria (application no. 21980/04)

"The Court also found that Mr Simeonov’s right to legal assistance had been restricted for the first three days of his police custody, but that that restriction had not irremediably infringed the criminal proceedings as a whole. In particular, the Court noted that no evidence capable of being used against Mr Simeonov had been obtained and included in the criminal file during that period; that Mr Simeonov, assisted by a lawyer of his own choosing, had voluntarily confessed two weeks after being charged, when he had been informed of his procedural rights, including the privilege against self-incrimination; that Mr Simeonov had actively participated in all stages of the criminal proceedings; that his conviction had not been based solely on his confession but also on a whole body of consistent evidence; that the case had been assessed at three judicial levels and that the domestic courts had provided adequate reasons for their decisions in both factual and legal terms and had properly examined the issue of respect for procedural rights."


Considering the so called confession, inclusion of Lamumba, and many of the main issues that led to this mess all came about while there was no lawyer, make your point moot.

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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Numbers » Fri May 12, 2017 4:19 pm

anonshy wrote:
Numbers wrote:A counter example from ECHR, Grand Chamber, that one's right to a lawyer during police custody may be lawfully limited, as long as no evidence from that period is used for a conviction and other rights are respected (from the press release, PDF available at HUDOC, and currently listed at ECHR home page http://echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=home):

Simeonovi v. Bulgaria (application no. 21980/04)

"The Court also found that Mr Simeonov’s right to legal assistance had been restricted for the first three days of his police custody, but that that restriction had not irremediably infringed the criminal proceedings as a whole. In particular, the Court noted that no evidence capable of being used against Mr Simeonov had been obtained and included in the criminal file during that period; that Mr Simeonov, assisted by a lawyer of his own choosing, had voluntarily confessed two weeks after being charged, when he had been informed of his procedural rights, including the privilege against self-incrimination; that Mr Simeonov had actively participated in all stages of the criminal proceedings; that his conviction had not been based solely on his confession but also on a whole body of consistent evidence; that the case had been assessed at three judicial levels and that the domestic courts had provided adequate reasons for their decisions in both factual and legal terms and had properly examined the issue of respect for procedural rights."


Considering the so called confession, inclusion of Lamumba, and many of the main issues that led to this mess all came about while there was no lawyer, make your point moot.

Anon


Anonshy, I am unsure what your response means, because "moot" has several definitions, such as "debatable" or "of no significance or relevance". Perhaps my post of the counter-example, or my use of the term "counter-example" is not so clear, either.

My point is that the ECHR applies its case law with great consistency, but that the actual facts of a case are compared to the case law with precision.

Thus, a guilter might argue that the ECHR judgment of no violation of Convention Article 6.1 with Article 6.3c in Simeonov v. Bulgaria was a sign that Knox's case alleging that Italy had violated her rights under Convention Article 6.1 with Article 6.3c was not likely to succeed.

However, as you point out in your response, and I attempted to show through highlighting and bolding, there are significant differences in the facts of Knox v. Italy compared to Simeonov v. Bulgaria. Simeonov had confessed after he had a lawyer and received the caution or notice of the right to remain silent while Knox made her statement against Lumumba and wrote her Memoriales 1 and 2 before she had a lawyer and before she had any caution or notice of the right to remain silent, and she withdrew her statement against Lumumba. Other evidence independent of the confession supported Simeonov's conviction, while the only evidence supporting Knox's conviction for calunnia comes from her statements when she was interrogated without a lawyer and held in custody without a lawyer. There were other procedural violations by the Italian authorities in her case. Thus, ECHR case law, applied precisely and consistently, results in an ECHR judgment of no violation of Articles 6.1 with 6.3c for the case of Simeonov v. Bulgaria but which is essentially certain to result in an ECHR judgment of a violation by Italy in the case of Knox v. Italy.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Numbers » Fri May 12, 2017 10:14 pm

european neighbour wrote:Congratulation:
http://floridainnocence.org/content/?page_id=13522


The link is to the Florida Innocence Project site announcing its 2017 fundraising event, "Steppin' Out 2017" on May 11. Amanda was honored at this event with the Frank Lee Smith Innocence Award.

Frank Lee Smith was wrongfully convicted in 1986 of a rape and murder in Florida that occurred in 1985. DNA testing was invented in 1984 and probably would not have been readily available at the time of his trial. Smith died of cancer in prison in January, 2000, before he was exonerated in December, 2000, by DNA testing.

See: https://www.innocenceproject.org/cases/frank-lee-smith/
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Annella » Sun May 14, 2017 9:45 pm

It appears that Amanda getting her life back to normal, sharing her experiences to help others, receiving awards, smiling, laughing, loving etc has sent certain people over the precipice. They were already hanging over the tipping point but to illustrate just what I mean, here are 3 comments left at the latest thread at TJMK.


From Martha Shamp aka ' Hopeful'

Knox is out of control, too right. I think I know why. A PMF member remarked on her recent West Seattle Herald piece about her sister, Deanna, so I reluctantly checked out Knox’s newspaper column. Turns out her article is all about Sibling Rivalry with Deanna, its long course which seems to be culminating now in Deanna’s upcoming nuptials seven months from now, which I think places the wedding in November. Knox did not specify the date, just “seven months” in the future.

Knox states in the WSH that Deanna called her and exhorted Knox to get pregnant, claiming Deanna wants to be an aunt and thinks Chris the current boyfriend is good for Knox. (Naturally there was no mention of Chris marrying Amanda or putting a ring on it first, or doing the right thing, not in that family.)

Knox analyzes Deanna’s strange encouragement to have a baby out of wedlock as some form of inverted kindness, so that Knox might still win out by being first in motherhood, since Deanna will be first down the aisle.

This major milestone and lifestep her younger sister is taking before her may be the reason for Knox’s current anxiety and yes she is out of control.
However, she assures Deanna that she is not expecting a baby, says she and Chris cannot afford one. She seems perplexed at Deanna’s suggestion.

So the Sibling Rivalry is in full bloom. Deanna might momentarily sweep ahead of the egomaniac Knox for one rare moment, walking the aisle first. But Knox got ahead of her by walking into court with guards on either side to face a judge not a priest, and thus onto the world stage the easy way, no accomplishments necessary, just the destruction of another life. Meredith paid for Knox’s headlines.

Now a wedding of baby sister. Will Knox attend? Will cameras cover the day, or will it be like her college graduation, top secret and hidden away?

Deanna has her turn to shine in seven months, the tables have turned and Knox if she is the Knox we know so well, may not be pleased.

Watch out, Deanna. Knox may scurry ahead of you to a Las Vegas chapel or a King County justice of the peace and get hitched and get with child ahead of you yet.

It was probably this same merciless competition and envy for prominence that set the stage for her rage against Meredith. Deanna is actually lucky to be alive and well and able to put on a wedding dress, having been in close proximity to a human volcano for years.

Knox claims in the article that she once won a school prize for best student and that a teacher called Deanna in to assure her she needn’t try to compete with her sister’s academic achievement.

Instead of comforting Deanna the teacher’s emphasis on the possibility somehow stirred in her a deep anxiety or desire to do that very thing.

That misguided but wellmeaning teacher’s remarks were the beginning of a long miserable trend of competition between the two sisters as Knox tells it. An invisible immoveable wall was erected between them. The hostility manifested in Deanna’s coldness and meanness to Amanda seemingly for no reason. Knox felt pain and confusion as to its origin until they had a long talk and broke the ice.

In the WSH Knox shares with the world that Deanna felt sidelined by Knox’s notorious murder case, that Deanna envied the focus of Edda and the family on Knox during the trial, and she felt that she would forever be in the shadow of Knox’s world fame (or should it be world shame?)

No doubt Knox revels at this thought, the fame part, on some level.

The wedding this autumn of Deanna Knox before Miss Amanda Marie Pace Foxy Knox is a small part of redressing the sisterly imbalance.

The woes increase. In another recent Knox writing, she discusses how she and Chris had to put down his two pet rats. Knox had a tear in her eye, she said, and mentioned the emptiness of the event because it had no ceremony (what, like living in sin with Chris Robinson while Deanna takes wedding vows?) but the euthanasia of the rats was done very simply at the vet because the rats had come to the end of their natural lifespan.

Chris had used them once as a prop at one of his book signings but ended up liking the creatures and keeping them as pets.

Having plunged into the abyss of Knox writings online I also saw her description of a recent Innocence convention which Chris and Edda attended with her.

Knox sounded slightly miffed about the exhausting struggle of the whole convention (maybe this was my jaundiced interpretation, I admit) but she sounded between the lines slightly envious of Edda who was immensely enjoying the social side of the innocence gatherings and basically dancing the night away so to speak, feeling like the belle of the ball (my words) while Knox faced a little more of the stress of the event and the jampacked schedule with a lack of sleep.

She says this was Chris’s first innocence convention and Edda’s fourth.

Knox talks about the masks they made during a workshop, the theme being what mask do you wear to show the world? Knox admits to being flummoxed by the question.

Knox made a mask of a sad but smiling girl.

She recalled with irritation Edda’s efforts to keep her spirits up in prison by cheerleading her to keep smiling despite the pain of prison life. Knox was desperately sad at the time and the advice peeved her.

In this I must agree with her that her mother seems tone deaf to say the least. There is a time to “weep with them that weep” and not speak lightly to the grief of another individual.

No doubt, like Trump, as a mother Edda at the time was alarmed by her daughter’s growing despondency and meant well. She wanted to pull Knox out of an incipient depression but Knox still seems miffed about it, being forced to smile when she’s sad (or is it not sadness under the smile but anger?)

No doubt Knox wears so many masks, she could not settle on a single one for the workshop.

So Knox from these writings seems anything but the happy camper.

At least she has the masks and the charades and parades of pretenders called innocence conventions to enjoy.

At these pretender jamborees they can all breathe freely in their falseness together. Ahhh, the good life. Along with the willingly deluded parents dancing about so happy their offspring slipped under the prison cell and over the wall back to the vipers’ nest.

Must be better than Saturday Night Live tv, and meals provided.

@At KrissyG, your comment about Knox’s faux efforts to support exonerees and the wrongly convicted—yes, she’s probably greatly exaggerating her support role or any real efforts for these former jailbirds or currently incarcerated. She failed to even bother to write responses to the many people who corresponded with her in prison who gave her their affection and support at a critical time when she must have needed to be bolstered in 2007, 2008, 2009 etc. And at that time, she had lots of time on her hands with nothing in the world to do sitting in a cell.

But she will go anywhere that has a microphone and an audience, that’s her thing.

Always remember: she is a sociopath who will say anything.

She doesn’t mind embarrassing her only sister in the newspaper in the town they live in.

Check out the Sibling Rivalry article in West Seattle Herald to see the extent of her details about Deanna if you want to see real cheek.

If she had her sister’s permission, I apologize for the above conclusion.

Posted by Hopeful on 05/06/17 at 08:45 AM | #


This is the piece Amanda wrote for the WSH and which ' Hopeful' alludes to above. http://www.westseattleherald.com/2017/0 ... ng-rivalry


From someone calling himself ' David Mulhern'

Excellent couple of posts from @jamesraper and the usual insightful and forensic comments from @hopeful, @krissyg et al.

I used to read Knox’s horrible, student level musings regularly but found it a depressing experience. She has a dreadful writing style and obviously remembers the portion of her lectures where they discussed how powerful metaphors can enhance a piece. Indeed there are times when her dull metaphors completely overwhelm her writing. In short she is, at best, a bog standard writer. That’s me being extremely kind.

She continues to mock Meredith and her family at every opportunity and cannot hide the fact that she is extremely covetous of others. She’s fame hungry and is just bright enough to know that she has no actual talent that would facilitate her rise in the world, hence it was probably inevitable that she would go down the infamy route at some stage. Classic psychopath behaviour. I do wonder what small animals likely suffered at the hands of Knox when she was younger.

There’s little doubt that jealousy of Meredith (better looking, more intelligent and popular where Knox was openly disliked) and her growing antipathy towards Knox drove Poxy’s already damaged psyche over the edge. Poor Meredith doubtless knew that Knox was hateful but I’m sure she wouldn’t have known the full depths of depravity that Knox was capable of plumbing.

In Knox’s continued mocking of Meredith and her family with her awful weekly column, she is utterly incapable of hiding the fact that she is a deeply disturbed, deeply unhappy human being. She overplays consistently the stuff about how in control of her life she is and how happy she is with the weird boyfriend. Someone without whom she wouldn’t even have the one gig that actually pays her any money. Good old Chris’s daddy being a major player at the WSH.

In amongst her self obsessed drivel, we can see shining out like beacons in the dark, signposts around her despair at being dumped by Madison, her exetreme jealousy of her sister and her continued and even more extreme jealousy of Meredith. Even in death, Meredith continues to outshine her; thankfully now out of each of Poxy’s murdering hands but a constant reminder to Knox of what a miserable failsure she actually is.

Before murdering poor Meredith, Knox thought thought her only path to success and popularity was to get on her back for any man who showed a passing interest. Only deeply unhappy, normally depressed people try to find love and unhappiness in this way. When the deeply unhappy person is a psychopath like Knox, the likelihood of extreme violence erupting at some point is greatly increased.

The fates conspired and a truly decent human being who did the right things and who was beautiful, inside and out, lost her life. It still makes me sick when I think about it.

As @grahamrhodes often reminds us, Knox’s time will come. It may be many more years but we’ll still be here at TJMK, keeping Meredith’s memory alive. What a celebration we will have.

I envisage a NY Central Park meeting with @peterquennell addressing those of us who have managed to fly in and then we all repair to a suitable hostelry for much joyous celebration.

True justice for Meredith Kercher will come. It simply must.

Posted by davidmulhern on 05/14/17 at 06:06 AM | #



And the final piece from Christina Giscombe aka ' Vixen' at ISF, and KrissyG at twitter


An ideal Hollywood-style scenario will have a script wherein the pair really milk their crime for all it’s worth. Raff not only runs a grave care website, he diversifies (product development) into holding seances and providing a mummifying service.

Knox founds an online magazine called ‘Exonerated’ and registers it as a charity to avoid tax. Members of Injustice in Perugia are obliged to click on it several times an hour to make it look busy. Clickbait is Delanney and Ashley. Deanna has a lucky escape from Amanda’s clutches after her marriage, moving one thousand miles away to the other side of the country. She throws her wedding bouquet over her shoulder, which hits Knox smack in the face.

She begs Party Rock to marry her so that she can try and outstage that b***h Deanna and to buy her a bigger engagement ring than Deanna. Party Rock dayreams of planning his escape from Kox, but he is terrified she will stalk him. So he introduces her to all his frineds, hoping she’ll get off with them instead, as she did with him, whilst Thunderstrike back was turned, but who was ecstatic to run a mile in the opposite direction, taking a cut in a ‘gagging clause’.

Knox attempts to populate her EXONERATE magazine with interviews with upcoming Seattle artists, photographers and pop stars. She throws herself at likely-looking musicians. She persuades one to let her strum along with him. His failure to be the slightest impressed by her is met by a savage review online by her hand, dismissing his new album with the faintest of praise.

Photographers can get a free plug if they agree to do a load of shots of her in pretentious poses, such as balancing an apple on her head, or trying to touch her nose with her tongue or crossing her eyes to highlight her ‘goofiness’, which Party Rock encourages, being the artist that he is.

The epiphany of the film happens when Raff, desperate and in the gutter, his undertaking business in liquidation, his father bankrupt, Vanessa working as a waitress and Cassazione having given his compensation appeal the ‘bum’s rush’ decides to take the easy way out. The Wicked One no longer hears his prayers, even when he invokes Marilyn Manson. Sadly, he fail to top himself, too, as he forgot to sharpen his knife. However, the policeman who finds Raff in a stupor in the road clutching a suicide note, opens the letter and reads it, his jaw-dropping. He immediately rings Mignini.

Knox is in the middle of receiving yet another ‘award’ ‘in honor’ of her services to an Innocence Project conference with a nice beach, when in bursts the FBI to arrest her for the murder and sexual assault of Meredith Kercher.

Raff has confessed in his suicide note. He writes, ‘I might be going, Papa, but I’m taking that b***h with me!’

The pair are charged again under the jurisdiction of ‘new evidence’ as they were only ever let off because of ‘insufficient evidence’. Now they get to serve the 25 years each they deserve.

Friends and family of Mez are in court to see them go down.

Carnivals and street parties go on for days in Perugia.

Gumbel, Blackhurst and McGinn are forced to repay all the money they lined their pockets with under the Son of Sam acts.

Posted by KrissyG on 05/14/17 at 11:37 AM | #


:batshit crazy:: :batshit crazy:: :batshit crazy::

And if you have read this far, take the time to watch this recent interview with Amanda, Sunny Jacobs and Peter Pringle. Heartwarming stuff and wonderful to see Amanda so confident and happy. :)

http://www.king5.com/entertainment/tele ... /436852580
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Bruce Fischer » Mon May 15, 2017 9:40 am

Annella wrote:It appears that Amanda getting her life back to normal, sharing her experiences to help others, receiving awards, smiling, laughing, loving etc has sent certain people over the precipice. They were already hanging over the tipping point but to illustrate just what I mean, here are 3 comments left at the latest thread at TJMK.


Amanda is moving forward with her life. There is nothing that a few idiots posting on a site run by a lunatic can do about it. The dozen or so people who continue to speak against Amanda should seek help. I am no expert, but I imagine that the few remaining guilters are either disturbed, extremely lonely, or both. Except for Ergon. He is just a fraud. He knows exactly what he is doing. Thankfully his efforts are all failures. His fraudulent medical center is closed, PMF is dead, and his former "disciples" all appear to have moved on. I have no doubt they eventually came to realize that Ergon is not God. Good for them.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby ScifiTom » Mon May 15, 2017 2:47 pm

Bruce Fischer wrote:
Annella wrote:It appears that Amanda getting her life back to normal, sharing her experiences to help others, receiving awards, smiling, laughing, loving etc has sent certain people over the precipice. They were already hanging over the tipping point but to illustrate just what I mean, here are 3 comments left at the latest thread at TJMK.


Amanda is moving forward with her life. There is nothing that a few idiots posting on a site run by a lunatic can do about it. The dozen or so people who continue to speak against Amanda should seek help. I am no expert, but I imagine that the few remaining guilters are either disturbed, extremely lonely, or both. Except for Ergon. He is just a fraud. He knows exactly what he is doing. Thankfully his efforts are all failures. His fraudulent medical center is closed, PMF is dead, and his former "disciples" all appear to have moved on. I have no doubt they eventually came to realize that Ergon is not God. Good for them.


To Bruce

You are right Bruce that. I might not be the perfect person to say anything. You know if Amanda want to live her life style her way. I will allow it, even it not my business. Sometimes people have different taste, and I know what it like through my sibling even why I hate one so much we never get a long at all. I know that I am going through hard times of my dad cancer treatment even that part is now getting much worst on it. But anyway. I want to focus on things even focus on good thing even I do agree that PMF is dead even Ergon is still trying to run a business of playing dumb even the man is still sick, and about what Hope said! I remember long time ago that I am no longer friend with Hope anymore even I was her facebook friend in the past and through the AOL bookclub forum even I explain it of why I support Amanda Knox and I told her that if Kate bring up this stuff one more time of complaining. I am going to SCREAM AT KATE. I really love it, what is Kate problem. When I read a site of Seattle Washington and Kate said: It only 60% design and what does she mean by that. I have no clue. I just don't want Kate to find me in here, even if she does I am going to go Rampage on her!!!

You know when I first started with helping out Amanda Knox case. I told my ladies friends in the AOL Bookclub even me, Frank & Tony were the only 3 guys in that forum. There was a lot of ladies even yes Hopeful was one of them. I explain it.

Hopeful said: Tom calm down even Kate won't understand. I know you support Amanda Knox, and I think she guilty.


I said: Hope you can go your way. But I stick it to a story of why the whole thing was Sloppy Joe or a NBA kissing game of media news play this stupid game of it, even Amanda is totally innocent, even you can go your way. I'm going my way and later on she said fine!

But I got sick and tired of Kate even I am glad she hasn't find me yet. I know she will tried to find me even I will contact Cindy and tell her, even I am ready for her once again to explain my detail of why I support the innocent project or I will contact my best of friend Randy N. I trust more even he a greatest friend I ever had that is that and talk to you soon Bruce!!!
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Annella » Tue May 16, 2017 2:20 am

Oh dear. Seems Christina Giscombe aka Vixen aka KrissyG ( at twitter and TJMK) is having a meltdown, throwing her toys outta the cot!


http://www.internationalskeptics.com/fo ... count=1663

What is this fixation with ' autopsy pics' I do not and have never had ( except those available on the Net) and worth remembering ( well for the clear headed peeps) that I also have never offered them up to 'strangers' in full view of public, plus.. I never use obscenities. Ever. So as usual poor Christina is losing it. Has lost. Is lost. For some odd reason it actually makes me feel rather gay! :lol: :lol: In that old fashioned way. Light. Happy. ;-) ( need a skipping emoji about now).
I do believe Vixen/Christina is a tad miffed. <Cheers>

Dang!! I forgot to add the video on Sunny Jacobs, Peter Pringle and Amanda Knox I have promoted and that SO upsets Vixen. Please. Make up your own minds. :razz:

http://www.king5.com/entertainment/tele ... /436852580
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Annella » Tue May 16, 2017 4:12 am

Christina Giscombe is ranting at ISF about how others behave with social media posts. Now let us take a look at a pic SHE created ( photoshopped) and sent to Amanda's parents last year. Of course we know Edda and Curt have long been divorced but Christina/Vixen just had to hit out at Amanda and she obviously thought this was a good route to take. Do others consider this to be harassment, like I do?

So. Giscombe/Vixen today. " Another Amanda Knox fan, Lynn Duncan (who calls herself Annella) notoriously harasses the Kercher family with obscenities and openly offers strangers sensitive autopsy pictures." ( btw...I dont!!)

Another quote from Vixen today! And I ask the same. " What sort of disturbed psychology produces that sort of thing? That genuinely fascinates me." Case in point pictured below.

Image

I wonder who is paying Christina Giscombe to produce these foul pictures, I have many many more.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Numbers » Tue May 16, 2017 9:29 am

Some can't accept that corrupt police and prosecutors can be involved in a conspiracy to conduct a wrongful prosecution.

However, conspiracies by members of a police department in homicide cases - said conspiracies resulting in wrongful convictions - do occur. Here is an excerpt from a news article about alleged official misconduct in Philadelphia:

".... the Innocence Project joined with a premier Philadelphia civil rights firm to file a wide-ranging lawsuit against the city and 11 police officers, including Santiago and Jastrzembski. Alleging a conspiracy to deprive Wright of his liberty through a malicious prosecution, the complaint lists a pervasive pattern and practice of unconstitutional transgressions in homicide investigations, including coerced confessions, fabricated false evidence, and withheld exculpatory evidence. Eight other cases involving misconduct are listed...."

We know such police conspiracies - often accepted without question or aided by the prosecution - and wrongful convictions have occurred in the US. The Knox - Sollecito case is an example of a police and prosecution conspiracy in Italy.


Source:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... _didn.html
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Sans Souci » Tue May 16, 2017 11:01 am

Do we really need this type of malice from Annella?
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Zrausch » Tue May 16, 2017 11:39 am

Sans Souci wrote:Do we really need this type of malice from Annella?


Vixen can I have your autograph :worthy:
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby NotEvenWrong » Tue May 16, 2017 12:12 pm

Photoshop contest to make fun of the wrongfully convicted's mother? Gee I wonder why these people have papers in forensic psychology journals discussing how they are sociopaths.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby NotEvenWrong » Tue May 16, 2017 12:14 pm

Sans Souci wrote:Do we really need this type of malice from Annella?


And this. You meanies need to quit making fun of Sans Souci! Let her harass others in peace. Free speech!

But don't say mean things about her that's totally off limits and probably illegal and unethical. Can't believe you need that spelled out. (it must be great to be completely oblivious to, well, everything, eh?)
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Bill Williams » Tue May 16, 2017 3:57 pm

Sans Souci wrote:Do we really need this type of malice from Annella?

Why is this, "malice from Annella?"
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby LondonJohn » Tue May 16, 2017 4:44 pm

Bill Williams wrote:
Sans Souci wrote:Do we really need this type of malice from Annella?

Why is this, "malice from Annella?"



I'm thinking this would be a most excellent new perfume brand:

"Malice.... by Annella"

Maybe Vixen could (inexpertly) photoshop up a disturbing image for the bottle label...............

:lol: :roll eyes:
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Annella » Wed May 17, 2017 7:33 pm

LondonJohn wrote:
Bill Williams wrote:
Sans Souci wrote:Do we really need this type of malice from Annella?

Why is this, "malice from Annella?"



I'm thinking this would be a most excellent new perfume brand:

"Malice.... by Annella"

Maybe Vixen could (inexpertly) photoshop up a disturbing image for the bottle label...............

:lol: :roll eyes:


That name has already been taken it seems. But I have a suggestion for a Vixen themed smelly...." Eau de Sulfur " :devil:
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby ScifiTom » Thu May 18, 2017 9:37 am

LondonJohn wrote:
Bill Williams wrote:
Sans Souci wrote:Do we really need this type of malice from Annella?

Why is this, "malice from Annella?"



I'm thinking this would be a most excellent new perfume brand:

"Malice.... by Annella"

Maybe Vixen could (inexpertly) photoshop up a disturbing image for the bottle label...............

:lol: :roll eyes:


To London

Ok London, if you want a new perfume and if Annella is going to take a photo shoot, of it. Here one for Vixen even I know for sure it made by cherry and vanilla and enjoy Vixen!!!

Image
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby anonshy » Thu May 18, 2017 9:53 am

ScifiTom wrote:
LondonJohn wrote:
Bill Williams wrote:
Sans Souci wrote:Do we really need this type of malice from Annella?

Why is this, "malice from Annella?"



I'm thinking this would be a most excellent new perfume brand:

"Malice.... by Annella"

Maybe Vixen could (inexpertly) photoshop up a disturbing image for the bottle label...............

:lol: :roll eyes:


To London

Ok London, if you want a new perfume and if Annella is going to take a photo shoot, of it. Here one for Vixen even I know for sure it made by cherry and vanilla and enjoy Vixen!!!

Image


I know its very quiet in here lately, but do we really need these posts?

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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby ScifiTom » Thu May 18, 2017 10:08 am

Sans Souci wrote:Do we really need this type of malice from Annella?


To Sami

Sami if that is your real name. But I know you don't like people even you go your own way. I am ok with it. But if someone bother you. You go to the profile and add Foe and I done it a lot of time, even I & you are different! I support the innocent of wrongful conviction. You might support the innocent of fraud cases. I am no fan of fraud cases, rape cases or any type of case. I only work on murder cases!!!

I'm sorry you're not having your day of the way we treat you. But if you want to play criminal law, do yourself a favor. Go to Wrongful conviction forum and type in Fraud cases of why they are wrongful conviction. I don't have a problem with it. I only support wrongful murder convictions to bring in the murder to the murder and I know a lot of people don't like me, of why I support polygraph of lying tech test even I believe people can past the test to prove he or she innocent. I an't buying it for them or buy anyone. It who I am and who I will be the rest of my life. Take it or leave it!!!

But finally this is a place about Injustice of Perugia into Amanda Knox & Raffaele Sollecito case and we talk about them and only them of how they were wrongful conviction. I know that I read novels of why it good to read a novel, even one of your friends stop reading at the age of 12 and it was offense of what he said, even he want to be like the next Kayne West. I don't like Kayne West one bit! He a creep and a freaking Jerk of bad havior yes I go against him in many ways. I support criminal law of innocent project, even for black, white, red, blue, yellow even green. It called color of friendship!!!

If you really want to talk about news. I know we got some sad news that the famous CEO foxnews Roger Allies had died today and he will be truly missed, even yes I am a Fox News fan of watching that show, and he means a lot to me and to my family. I do enjoy watching fox news of American Fox news, Happening Now, The Take Five & Hannity even I do sometimes watch Bill O'Reilly show. But we are different into Amanda Knox cases!!!

Plus I also watch NBC news of Today Show, Inside Edition & CBS Evening News Show. Those are the only news I watch. I don't even watch my home news station. I also read novels even that what I do for my spare time, even I only watch one tv show and that is Big Bang Theory. Nothing else to compare to me or how I say it, and I thank you Sami to read this and maybe you will understand it and that is that!!!
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Bruce Fischer » Sat May 20, 2017 11:07 am

The sale of Ground Report is complete. The new owner will be taking the site in a bit of a different direction. Our past articles remain on Ground Report for the time being but we are no longer involved with the operation of that site. The articles are now available on http://www.wrongfulconvictionnews.com. Our articles moving forward on cases of wrongful conviction will be posted on WCN as well.
"This could happen to any one of you. If you don't believe it could happen, you are either misinformed or in a state of deep denial" -- Debra Milke
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby KayPea » Mon May 22, 2017 2:51 pm

Bruce Fischer wrote:The sale of Ground Report is complete. The new owner will be taking the site in a bit of a different direction. Our past articles remain on Ground Report for the time being but we are no longer involved with the operation of that site. The articles are now available on http://www.wrongfulconvictionnews.com. Our articles moving forward on cases of wrongful conviction will be posted on WCN as well.


Onward!
Thanks Bruce
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby ScifiTom » Wed May 24, 2017 4:45 pm

To everyone

Hey everyone, I read this wonderful article today and it something we all must learn of why we pray to god of a great way to care for the christ of God and anyway I will give you detail of some part of what Amanda Knox said in the color red, and then later on I will give you the link of site and enjoy reading this and then I will tell you something of how I went to a Bible class in my senior year in the color blue and happy enjoying reading this and talk to you soon everyone!!!
When I was falsely imprisoned for murder, I experienced firsthand how vulnerable prisoners can become religious. And I'm not alone—across the US, prisons use religion to coerce and control their captive populations.

Katie McKibben and the Orange County Superior Court both agree on one thing: In July 2013, 25-year-old McKibben failed to remain sober while on home arrest for her third DUI. She had been struggling with alcoholism throughout her early 20s, couldn't manage it on her own, and needed help. That's where their agreement ends.

According to the court, McKibben was ordered to participate in a 90-day inpatient rehabilitation program at a county-contracted women's facility in Santa Ana called the Villa. There, from August until November, McKibben received the help she needed. At her regular check-ins with the court, McKibben praised the program for its positive influence. The end.

https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/ ... o-religion


Now that only part of it, even I haven't tell you my story of how I was treated unfair even I went through a lot of ways of how my own school be trade me of giving me a free education even yes I am still planning to confront my teachers inside a novel even they can sue me as well. I will tell you a issue that I had with one of my Teacher who I hated even I knew some Teachers sure can be a pain in the neck or they don't care for that student even they should care to educate that student. I had some pretty bad teachers even one who was pretty sick and anyway enjoy reading this and we are talking about god!!!

I first started my senior which a teacher name Bruce Pennmitted and he was a journal newspaper teacher, and I never wrote a newspaper even I once created my own blog and Bruce was not a typical teacher he give you 2 homework and they are due the next day and then one day he will give you 3 homework even he want it all done the next day and there other subject well like Math, Science, English & History even you got to do that homework even he tell his student ignore the Science, English, Matt & History and just do my homework.
Mr Pennmitted had a weird way to work his student even I never liked him and I tried to do much homework as I can even I got other homework and it was to much even I was losing my sleep. So after the first 2 weeks I apolized to him and said sorry I just couldn't finish it, and all of sundley he GRAB ME! Out of the blue, even I am deaf and learning disiblity and I never felt ashamed of why did he do that to me? I was shock by it and I told my family and the next day I got out of his class even my dad written a letter to the president of school and principal as well and yes I get to change my class. I wanted my favorite teacher Mr Minks. But I couldn't have him, even I got Mr Jacob and Mr Jacob sure was a good teacher even I knew a lot of student hated him even they never liked him one bit and I can see why? But that another story anyway Mr Jacob was my Bible teacher and he taught me how to write and explain detail of writing even why we must pray for god even there are churches to attend and why the bible is so good to help us even care for one and for other even he only give us reading homework not write paper, of reading a bible inside the class


What I am saying is that we must care even if Amanda did pray to god and give a power of praying of why we care for the innocent of people who are wrongful conviction of murder, and I was more happy of having Mr Jacob class then Mr Pennmitted class! But sometime I do think Mr Pennmitted should learn that we should never put a hand on a learning disiblity or handicap people. I know it not right and I will do anything into that power of right now!!!
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby ScifiTom » Fri May 26, 2017 1:18 pm

To everyone

Hey everyone as knowing today is Memorial Day Weekend and I now I am seeing a quiet day of 00000000000000000 Zero post and 0000000000 Zero responds. Are we forgetting the national holiday today of this whole weekend. It look I am going to be like this all day for the weekend. :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: Yep my friend even no one want to join the force of America RIghts!!!

I know that I support the American Troops of style even I support the Glory of Manchester as well. We fight to be united even I am going to go rampage because no one is here today or will they be here for the whole weekend. It look like we are going to begone for a vacation week. What happen here, even it so quiet here today and I can see why? Come on team we need some team work. Why not show some respect of America and Manchester can be united even I know that part. But I am here for a fight with the glory and are you all going to watch FS2 at 7pm eastern time zone. I think you should watch Barclay Soccer FC tonight it will be the reapted of Manchester United vs Neitherland Ajax team! It is going to be epic and why not I am going to watch it tonight!!!

But finally I heard that Peter Quennell is or willing to bring up Alan Alda new book. Yep I got a hunch he will do it, even he a friend of Peter Quennell and I bet you he will bring this up. I know so anyway and I can care less even I am here for the Glory of Manchester United 4-life and I will be back later tonight after the game at 9:30pm to say goodnight even I get any responds and that all and enjoy your wonderful Memorial weekend and see you then!!!
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Numbers » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:27 pm

Here is some information from ECHR on case (application) processing and anticipated timing of judgments and decisions after communication of an application:

"3.2.4. Backlog applications

In general, applications “in backlog” are those pending applications in which certain targets fixed by the Court have not been met.

Since November 2012 the Court has identified its backlog according to the criteria specified at the Brighton Conference:

Applications awaiting first decision are considered as backlog if they have not moved to the next procedural step (i.e. disposed of or communicated to the respondent Government) within one year;

Applications having been communicated to the respondent Government: these are considered as backlog if they have not been disposed of by a decision or judgment within two years.

The backlog applications are subject to constant supervision by the Court, especially if they are in the prioritised categories (see also “Categories of priority”)."

Source: http://echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=reports&c=
Link: PDF "Understanding the Court's statistics" p 8

Amanda's application was communicated to Italy on 29 April 2016.

"Communiquée le 29 avril 2016

PREMIÈRE SECTION

Requête no 76577/13
Amanda Marie KNOX
contre l’Italie
introduite le 24 novembre 2013"

Thus, it would enter the "backlog" if there were no ECHR decision or judgment by 29 April 2018.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby garlex » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:26 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuliano_Mignini

Wikipedia page on Mignini.

"The Court, however, acknowledged that it is a "proven fact" that Knox was at the murder scene when the murder was committed[5][6][7] while it was not proven "beyond reasonable doubt" that Knox and Sollecito had an "active participation" to the "killing action",[6][8] and invoked the legal categories of "non punishable connivence" or "concurring in the crime committed by others";[9] the sentence also acknowledges as "incontrovertible" the fact that Kercher was killed by more than one person and that Guede concurred in committing the murder "together with others".[10][11]"
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Zrausch » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:25 pm

garlex wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuliano_Mignini

Wikipedia page on Mignini.

"The Court, however, acknowledged that it is a "proven fact" that Knox was at the murder scene when the murder was committed[5][6][7] while it was not proven "beyond reasonable doubt" that Knox and Sollecito had an "active participation" to the "killing action",[6][8] and invoked the legal categories of "non punishable connivence" or "concurring in the crime committed by others";[9] the sentence also acknowledges as "incontrovertible" the fact that Kercher was killed by more than one person and that Guede concurred in committing the murder "together with others".[10][11]"


Found another one:

"On February 24 the Qualifiers delivered their unanimous report:
...
the proposition that the Earth's moves and is not at the centre of the universe [is "foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of Holy Scripture"]"
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Numbers » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:29 am

Posted on ISF by Bill Williams:

Raffaele's appeal of the judgment of his request for compensation for unfair detention will be heard on 28 June 2017 by the Supreme Court of Cassation (CSC).

http://www.umbriadomani.it/politica-umb ... th-148809/
______

The article is brief:

"Sollecito torna in Cassazione per chiedere un risarcimento dopo l’ingiusta detenzione dopo l’omicidio di Meredith

La richiesta era già stata sconfessata dai giudici toscani

PERUGIA – E’ fissata per il 28 giugno l’udienza in Cassazione di Raffaele Sollecito, che vuole chiede un risarcimento allo Stato Italiano per la sua ingiusta detenzione. Sollecito è stato in carcere infatti per l’omicidio della studentessa inglese Meredith Kercher. La richiesta era già stata sconfessata dai giudici toscani, che avevano parlato delle dichiarazioni contraddittorie del giovane pugliese."

Google translation (with my assistance):

Sollecito Returns to Cassation to Claim Compensation for Unjust Detention After Meredith Murder

The request was already refused by [a judgment of] the Tuscan [lower court] judges

PERUGIA - The hearing in the Supreme Court of Cassation of the [appeal of the lower court judgment] on Raffaele Sollecito's request seeking compensation from the Italian State for his unjust imprisonment is scheduled for 28 June [2017]. Sollecito was imprisoned for the murder of English student Meredith Kercher. The request had already been refused by the Tuscan [lower court] judges, whose [motivation report] had stated that the contradictory statements of the young man from Puglia [was a reason for the refusal].
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby ScifiTom » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:55 am

To everyone

Hey everyone I just found this out today that Raffaele Sollecito is going to return to supreme court on June 28, 2017 of him being wrongful conviction of murder and course the Italy case was a joke and is shamed that they never realize the whole case was made by sloppy Joe and it was plan ruin even the dna ruin the whole evidence through the crime scene and there zero evidence that point not to either Raffaele or Amanda. But anyway here is the article and enjoy reading this!!!

http://www.umbriadomani.it/politica-umb ... th-148809/
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Bill Williams » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:09 am

garlex wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuliano_Mignini

Wikipedia page on Mignini.

"The Court, however, acknowledged that it is a "proven fact" that Knox was at the murder scene when the murder was committed[5][6][7] while it was not proven "beyond reasonable doubt" that Knox and Sollecito had an "active participation" to the "killing action",[6][8] and invoked the legal categories of "non punishable connivence" or "concurring in the crime committed by others";[9] the sentence also acknowledges as "incontrovertible" the fact that Kercher was killed by more than one person and that Guede concurred in committing the murder "together with others".[10][11]"

Depending on which "court" this edit (on Mignini's page) is citing, it is on the face of it true. Raffaele's compensation court actually said those things, although probably not all of them. With Raffaele's compensation case being heard by Cassazione on June 28, there will be another motivations report The way this decade-long saga has gone it is reasonable to expect yet another 180 degree departure from the nonsense that the compensation court spewed out - and we'll be back to a war of citations.

Who knows. Maybe Mignini's page is descending into the kind of edit-warfare that plagued the "Murder of...." page seven years ago, requiring Jimbo Wales' own intervention to sort out. I cannot imagine a relatively unbiased newby, though, simply stopping at the Mignini page on Wikipedia and forming an opinion based on that. Still, the overwhelmingly majority opinion these days is as reflected on this site (IIP, IA) including the most recent relevant pages on Wikipedia - and including the Netflix documentary, as well as Winterbottom's 2014 film (albeit that one was rarely seen).

It is easy to ferret-out who made that edit - an edit on Mignini's page, as if they concede his reputation needs resuscitation.... which after his own admissions on the Netflix documentary - along with Pisa's admissions - pretty much sticks a fork in what's-what with this decade-long case.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Bill Williams » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:15 am

garlex wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuliano_Mignini

Wikipedia page on Mignini.

"The Court, however, acknowledged that it is a "proven fact" that Knox was at the murder scene when the murder was committed[5][6][7] while it was not proven "beyond reasonable doubt" that Knox and Sollecito had an "active participation" to the "killing action",[6][8] and invoked the legal categories of "non punishable connivence" or "concurring in the crime committed by others";[9] the sentence also acknowledges as "incontrovertible" the fact that Kercher was killed by more than one person and that Guede concurred in committing the murder "together with others".[10][11]"

Aki_001 is the editor of the Mignini page these days. Find out who Aki_001 is and you've solved the riddle - obviously a Mignini fan-boy!
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby carlofab » Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:16 pm

Bill Williams wrote:
garlex wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuliano_Mignini

Wikipedia page on Mignini.

"The Court, however, acknowledged that it is a "proven fact" that Knox was at the murder scene when the murder was committed[5][6][7] while it was not proven "beyond reasonable doubt" that Knox and Sollecito had an "active participation" to the "killing action",[6][8] and invoked the legal categories of "non punishable connivence" or "concurring in the crime committed by others";[9] the sentence also acknowledges as "incontrovertible" the fact that Kercher was killed by more than one person and that Guede concurred in committing the murder "together with others".[10][11]"

Aki_001 is the editor of the Mignini page these days. Find out who Aki_001 is and you've solved the riddle - obviously a Mignini fan-boy!


I wonder if this does not refer to the supreme court finalizing her conviction for falsely accusing Patrick? It was her statement against him which placed her at the scene.

That statement was proven false, which was the basis for her conviction re: Patrick. It would not surprise me if Italian law proved a statement false for one purpose, but considered it at least partially true for another purpose. Strange, because a statement cannot be partially true in logic, which the courts pretend to use.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Zrausch » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:04 pm

carlofab wrote:
Bill Williams wrote:
garlex wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuliano_Mignini

Wikipedia page on Mignini.

"The Court, however, acknowledged that it is a "proven fact" that Knox was at the murder scene when the murder was committed[5][6][7] while it was not proven "beyond reasonable doubt" that Knox and Sollecito had an "active participation" to the "killing action",[6][8] and invoked the legal categories of "non punishable connivence" or "concurring in the crime committed by others";[9] the sentence also acknowledges as "incontrovertible" the fact that Kercher was killed by more than one person and that Guede concurred in committing the murder "together with others".[10][11]"

Aki_001 is the editor of the Mignini page these days. Find out who Aki_001 is and you've solved the riddle - obviously a Mignini fan-boy!


I wonder if this does not refer to the supreme court finalizing her conviction for falsely accusing Patrick? It was her statement against him which placed her at the scene.

That statement was proven false, which was the basis for her conviction re: Patrick. It would not surprise me if Italian law proved a statement false for one purpose, but considered it at least partially true for another purpose. Strange, because a statement cannot be partially true in logic, which the courts pretend to use.


I'm pretty sure if you add up all the Italian rulings at this point, you'll find that Meredith Kercher is considered legally un-stabbed, and therefore alive.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby ScifiTom » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:37 pm

carlofab wrote:
I wonder if this does not refer to the supreme court finalizing her conviction for falsely accusing Patrick? It was her statement against him which placed her at the scene.

That statement was proven false, which was the basis for her conviction re: Patrick. It would not surprise me if Italian law proved a statement false for one purpose, but considered it at least partially true for another purpose. Strange, because a statement cannot be partially true in logic, which the courts pretend to use.


To Carlo

Hey Carlo long time see my friend. You had been gone for a very long time, and welcome Carlo and about Amanda being place at the scene. That only occurred when she took a shower even she had nothing to do with it. It was wrong of the legal team to test her of taking a shower even some will think she guilt. But she isn't. She only took it for a reason. But what I don't like is this, that something is missing even when Amanda said: The door was wide open she explain that crystal clear and it was shown inside the video as well through Fox news, CNN news even Italy news. Now if they show that, she telling us something true. But it shows that she only made a boo boo of accident of crossing blood or seeing something ugly of Rudy potty crap!!!
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby carlofab » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:52 pm

ScifiTom wrote:
carlofab wrote:
I wonder if this does not refer to the supreme court finalizing her conviction for falsely accusing Patrick? It was her statement against him which placed her at the scene.

That statement was proven false, which was the basis for her conviction re: Patrick. It would not surprise me if Italian law proved a statement false for one purpose, but considered it at least partially true for another purpose. Strange, because a statement cannot be partially true in logic, which the courts pretend to use.


To Carlo

Hey Carlo long time see my friend. You had been gone for a very long time, and welcome Carlo and about Amanda being place at the scene. That only occurred when she took a shower even she had nothing to do with it. It was wrong of the legal team to test her of taking a shower even some will think she guilt. But she isn't. She only took it for a reason. But what I don't like is this, that something is missing even when Amanda said: The door was wide open she explain that crystal clear and it was shown inside the video as well through Fox news, CNN news even Italy news. Now if they show that, she telling us something true. But it shows that she only made a boo boo of accident of crossing blood or seeing something ugly of Rudy potty crap!!!


No, they are saying it is proven she was in the house at the time of the murder. That could only come from her confession, which placed her there when she heard Meredith scream.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Mediocrates » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:20 pm

::covereyes::

Ssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhush, Carlo! Don't mention that where "Bill" could see it (he does not want to hear that interpretation, even if it's coming from an appellate court in Florence :::eek::: ).



:facepalm:
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby LondonJohn » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:55 am

Why are you writing "Bill" in quotation marks, Jackie? Is your real name Mediocrates? Or Jackie for that matter? No, it's not. So what's the purpose in the quotation marks, "Mediocrates"/"Jackie"?
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby LondonJohn » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:05 am

carlofab wrote:No, they are saying it is proven she was in the house at the time of the murder. That could only come from her confession, which placed her there when she heard Meredith scream.



And the ONLY reason why the Marasca MR incorporates this point is so that its judgement does not stand in conflict/contradiction with the prior SC motivations report in respect of Knox's criminal slander conviction (in which, as you point out above, the judgement is that Knox "confessed" that she was in the cottage when she heard Kercher's scream - even though, paradoxically, this was the same trial process which found that Knox had lied when she "confessed" that she took Lumumba to the cottage....).

Look at it this way: imagine that the Marasca SC panel had ruled that there was zero credible, reliable evidence connecting Knox or Sollecito in any way with the murder, and that it was a near certainty that Guede alone had committed the crime. This would immediately have been in conflict with two separate prior SC settled judgements: the Guede one which ruled multiple attackers, and the Knox criminal slander one which ruled that Knox had been there and had heard Kercher scream. So Marasca HAD to find some way to make his MR compatible with those prior SC settled judgements. Otherwise a whole can of worms would inevitably have been opened up, involving the probability of revision trials and various constitutional-court matters.

Of course, this is yet another of the crazy failings of the Italian criminal justice system. The sole role of the Marasca SC panel should have been to determine whether there was enough credible, reliable evidence - that was PRESENTED IN THE KNOX/SOLLECITO TRIAL PROCESS ALONE - to have lawfully constituted proof BARD that Knox and/or Sollecito were guilty of the crimes with which they were charged.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby ScifiTom » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:22 am

LondonJohn wrote:Why are you writing "Bill" in quotation marks, Jackie? Is your real name Mediocrates? Or Jackie for that matter? No, it's not. So what's the purpose in the quotation marks, "Mediocrates"/"Jackie"?


To London John

Hey London John, if Mediocrates is Jackie. Then Broseph must be Kate. It look like I have to contact Cindy right now. But I did in fact PM Broseph to talk about Kirstin Lobato case and will she show up. I haven't heard anything yet. I am waiting Kate, are you coming Kate!!!

So talk to you soon London John!!!
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby ScifiTom » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:55 am

LondonJohn wrote:
carlofab wrote:No, they are saying it is proven she was in the house at the time of the murder. That could only come from her confession, which placed her there when she heard Meredith scream.



And the ONLY reason why the Marasca MR incorporates this point is so that its judgement does not stand in conflict/contradiction with the prior SC motivations report in respect of Knox's criminal slander conviction (in which, as you point out above, the judgement is that Knox "confessed" that she was in the cottage when she heard Kercher's scream - even though, paradoxically, this was the same trial process which found that Knox had lied when she "confessed" that she took Lumumba to the cottage....).

Look at it this way: imagine that the Marasca SC panel had ruled that there was zero credible, reliable evidence connecting Knox or Sollecito in any way with the murder, and that it was a near certainty that Guede alone had committed the crime. This would immediately have been in conflict with two separate prior SC settled judgements: the Guede one which ruled multiple attackers, and the Knox criminal slander one which ruled that Knox had been there and had heard Kercher scream. So Marasca HAD to find some way to make his MR compatible with those prior SC settled judgements. Otherwise a whole can of worms would inevitably have been opened up, involving the probability of revision trials and various constitutional-court matters.

Of course, this is yet another of the crazy failings of the Italian criminal justice system. The sole role of the Marasca SC panel should have been to determine whether there was enough credible, reliable evidence - that was PRESENTED IN THE KNOX/SOLLECITO TRIAL PROCESS ALONE - to have lawfully constituted proof BARD that Knox and/or Sollecito were guilty of the crimes with which they were charged.


To Carlo & London John

Hey Carlo she was only there to take a shower even that was the confess, even it was plan nonsense even I am positive that they had a video of some stupid man came in and he should had been punish of damaging a window with no nonsense, even Italy man or security broke that law, even it was shown in video and they capture it on video as well. The way Italy did this case was like the NBA kissing cam of why they hate to show comfort. I can see it now that Italy hate to lose a love ones!!!

Image

I second it London John even the whole case was made into sloppy Joe even it was plan nonsense even I truly think they ruin it. It was damage the whole time, even first Rudy confess first and change his story over and over again even the whole case is a mess. I truly think the case started since November 1st, 2007-November 1st, 2017 and Rudy Guede might go free in July or August 2017!!!

But in my own point of view. I truly think after the 10th anniversary of Meredith Kercher our President Donald J Trump should take away the Italy case and let refresh the case of reopen it, even the case will be close on November 1st, 2017!!!
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:41 pm

This may have been asked before but there are almost 560 pages here. . . . Why do others think that there is (or was) such a hatred for Amanda Knox?
I am not clueless and have some ideas but want to ask others?
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Zrausch » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:01 pm

Desert Fox wrote:This may have been asked before but there are almost 560 pages here. . . . Why do others think that there is (or was) such a hatred for Amanda Knox?
I am not clueless and have some ideas but want to ask others?


This thread captures the emotions brewing in real time. One poster says 'I haven't been so angry at a suspect since Chester Stiles.'

I didn't follow the case when it first happened so don't have perspective on the early days. But it seems the vast majority of the guilters were exposed to the case through that early media portrayal of Knox as a spoiled American brat sociopath who wanted to lie and shrug her way out of a murder charge.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:41 pm

I kind of meant more recently with the few people who still argue that she is guilty?
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Zrausch » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:58 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I kind of meant more recently with the few people who still argue that she is guilty?


That's like 5 people but they all came out of that same environment i'm sure. The only difference is they don't mind wasting time posting about a lost cause. It's not as if somewhere out there stilicho or thoughtful or pick your retired guilter thinks they got it wrong or it was a weak case after all. They just are bit quicker to assess the futility of the situation.
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby ScifiTom » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:59 pm

Zrausch wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I kind of meant more recently with the few people who still argue that she is guilty?


That's like 5 people but they all came out of that same environment i'm sure. The only difference is they don't mind wasting time posting about a lost cause. It's not as if somewhere out there stilicho or thoughtful or pick your retired guilter thinks they got it wrong or it was a weak case after all. They just are bit quicker to assess the futility of the situation.


To Zrausch

I agree with you Zrausch, even it was a weak case even the whole case is a mess and I can care less what Dessert Fox said! I an't buying it, even Ignore him and I had it, even no matter what I say if some person saying: Hey we want answer. Screw the answers! The case is over and it a done deal even you can't always get answers even the whole case was a mess and it shame that they still believe into the guilt and some how they think they are right and we are wrong. No one is right or wrong. The case was weak and not only weak it, was made of sloppy Joe and it was ruin even a huge mess. They couldn't get it right. The problem was ruin even everything was weak and if they had listen to me. I would had done it much different to prove them all wrong of who really killed: Meredith Kercher? I know how it was done and who committed the crime. I an't going to or I an't willing to buy any guilters of the crime. She won the case and it over and end of story! I am not going to buy it period!!!
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Numbers » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:53 am

The ECHR has scheduled an important Italian human rights case for judgment by 22 June 2017. The case is significant in part because it is listed as a "noteworthy pending case" against Italy in Italy's Country Profile, as is Amanda's case alleging that her conviction for calunnia violated the Convention. The relevance is that the ECHR is beginning to get to these significant human right cases and we can hope that Amanda's case will be judged in 2017 or 2018.

The anticipated judgment is for a case consisting of a group of applications relating to misconduct by the Italian police alleged to have been ineffectively investigated or adjudicated by the Italian judicial system. Here is the ECHR's prejudgment summary.

Bartesaghi Gallo and Others v. Italy (nos. 12131/13 and 43390/13)

The applicants are 42 individuals of various nationalities who were born between 1937 and 1981. The cases concern allegations of ill-treatment by police officers during an anti-globalisation demonstration organised to coincide with the 27th summit of the eight major industrialised nations (G8) from 19 to 21 July 2001.

On 21 July 2001, at around midnight, police officers from the VII Nucleo antisommassa – a unit made up essentially of officers belonging to a division specialising in anti-riot operations – raided Diaz-Pertini School in order to secure the building and carry out searches. The applicants alleged that the police officers, most of whom wore face masks, had punched, kicked and clubbed them, while shouting at them and threatening them. They had also thrown furniture at some of the applicants. Those who tried to escape and hide had been caught, beaten, and in some cases pulled by their hair from their hiding places. Following the operation, 93 people were arrested – 78 of whom were taken to hospital – and were prosecuted for conspiracy to commit unlawful damage and destruction, aggravated resistance to the police and unlawful carrying of weapons. The proceedings against the occupiers of the building ended with their acquittal.

On the same night, a unit of officers entered Pascoli School, where journalists were filming the events taking place in Diaz-Pertini School, and where a radio station was broadcasting the events live. When the police arrived the journalists were allegedly forced to stop filming and broadcasting, and video tapes containing footage taken over the three days of the summit were reportedly seized. Criminal proceedings were instituted against the law-enforcement officers in question. With regard to events at Diaz-Pertini School, the Court of Cassation found that the violence in question could be characterised as “torture” within the meaning of, among other provisions, Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights but that, in the absence of an ad hoc criminal offence in the Italian legal system, the alleged perpetrators of the violence had been charged with offences of simple or aggravated bodily harm. The proceedings concerning those offences had been discontinued under Article 157 of the Criminal Code as the limitation period had expired. As to the events in Pascoli School, the Court of Appeal found that the raid by the law-enforcement officers had been aimed at destroying any filmed evidence of the raid taking place at Diaz-Pertini School. However, it discontinued the proceedings on the grounds that prosecution of the offence in question was time-barred. That judgment was upheld by the Court of Cassation.

Relying on Article 3 (prohibition of torture and inhuman or degrading treatment), the applicants complain that they were subjected to acts of violence which, in their view, amounted to torture and inhuman and degrading treatment. Under Article 13 (right to an effective remedy), they complain of the lack of an effective investigation. In particular, they complain of the failure to identify most of the officers responsible for the violence and of the absence, in the Italian criminal-justice system, of an offence of torture and inhuman and degrading treatment. Lastly, some of the applicants rely on other Articles of the Convention.
Expert witness testimony must be the product of reliable principles and methods. {Paraphrase of Fed. Rules of Evidence 702c}
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby european neighbour » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:24 am

Numbers wrote:The ECHR has scheduled an important Italian human rights case for judgment by 22 June 2017.


Italia condannato:
http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/cronaca ... 69d35.html
http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng-press?i=0 ... 18-7319590
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Numbers » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:53 am

european neighbour wrote:
Numbers wrote:The ECHR has scheduled an important Italian human rights case for judgment by 22 June 2017.


Italia condannato:
http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/cronaca ... 69d35.html
http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng-press?i=0 ... 18-7319590


Here is the ECHR press release summary. The judgment is available only in French.

The treatment to which the applicants were subjected during an
anti-globalisation demonstration amounted to torture

In today’s Chamber judgment in the case of Bartesaghi Gallo and Others v. Italy
(applications nos. 12131/13 and 43390/13) the European Court of Human Rights held, unanimously, that there had been:

a violation of Article 3 (prohibition of torture and inhuman or degrading treatment) of the European Convention on Human Rights.

The case concerned the ill-treatment to which 42 demonstrators were subjected by police officers inside a school, in the context of an anti-globalisation demonstration organised to coincide with the 27th summit of the eight major industrialised countries (G8). The Court found in particular that the treatment to which the applicants had been subjected should be regarded as torture, on account of the “severe” physical and psychological suffering it had caused them and its particularly serious and cruel nature. The applicants had been both victims of and witnesses to the use of uncontrolled violence by the police, with officers systematically beating each of the school’s occupants, including those who were lying down or sitting with their hands up, despite the fact that the occupants had not committed any act of violence or resistance against the police.

The Court, noting that the domestic procedure in question was the same procedure that had led to a finding of a violation in the case of Cestaro v. Italy, therefore saw no reason to depart from its findings in that case, including with regard to the shortcomings of the Italian legal system concerning the punishment of torture.
_____
The ECHR has issued a judgment in one of the "noteworthy pending cases" against Italy listed in Italy's Country Profile. Knox v. Italy is another "noteworthy pending case" in that list, although it has not yet been judged.

Significant findings of the case that has been judged is that the Italian police had tortured non-violent peaceful demonstrators at the G8 summit, and that the dysfunction of the Italian judicial and legal system prevented those police who had committed these acts to be adequately disciplined or punished according to any law. These failures amounted to a violation of Convention Article 3, the prohibition of torture and inhuman or degrading treatment. One allegation in Knox v. Italy is that there was a violation of Article 3 (degrading treatment) during the interrogation of Knox on Nov. 5/6, leading to her false accusation of Lumumba.

One implication of this judgment is that some units of the Italian police under certain circumstances will commit serious violations of human rights to advance the arbitrary goals of the police, and the Italian judicial system is apparently incapable of addressing such violations of the European Convention on Human Rights. These failings of the Italian justice system can be considered as explanations for the police and judicial treatment of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito in this case.
Expert witness testimony must be the product of reliable principles and methods. {Paraphrase of Fed. Rules of Evidence 702c}
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Numbers » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:11 am

Numbers wrote:
european neighbour wrote:
Numbers wrote:The ECHR has scheduled an important Italian human rights case for judgment by 22 June 2017.


Italia condannato:
http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/cronaca ... 69d35.html
http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng-press?i=0 ... 18-7319590


Here is the ECHR press release summary. The judgment is available only in French.

The treatment to which the applicants were subjected during an
anti-globalisation demonstration amounted to torture

In today’s Chamber judgment in the case of Bartesaghi Gallo and Others v. Italy
(applications nos. 12131/13 and 43390/13) the European Court of Human Rights held, unanimously, that there had been:

a violation of Article 3 (prohibition of torture and inhuman or degrading treatment) of the European Convention on Human Rights.

The case concerned the ill-treatment to which 42 demonstrators were subjected by police officers inside a school, in the context of an anti-globalisation demonstration organised to coincide with the 27th summit of the eight major industrialised countries (G8). The Court found in particular that the treatment to which the applicants had been subjected should be regarded as torture, on account of the “severe” physical and psychological suffering it had caused them and its particularly serious and cruel nature. The applicants had been both victims of and witnesses to the use of uncontrolled violence by the police, with officers systematically beating each of the school’s occupants, including those who were lying down or sitting with their hands up, despite the fact that the occupants had not committed any act of violence or resistance against the police.

The Court, noting that the domestic procedure in question was the same procedure that had led to a finding of a violation in the case of Cestaro v. Italy, therefore saw no reason to depart from its findings in that case, including with regard to the shortcomings of the Italian legal system concerning the punishment of torture.
_____
The ECHR has issued a judgment in one of the "noteworthy pending cases" against Italy listed in Italy's Country Profile. Knox v. Italy is another "noteworthy pending case" in that list, although it has not yet been judged.

Significant findings of the case that has been judged is that the Italian police had tortured non-violent peaceful demonstrators at the G8 summit, and that the dysfunction of the Italian judicial and legal system prevented those police who had committed these acts to be adequately disciplined or punished according to any law. These failures amounted to a violation of Convention Article 3, the prohibition of torture and inhuman or degrading treatment. One allegation in Knox v. Italy is that there was a violation of Article 3 (degrading treatment) during the interrogation of Knox on Nov. 5/6, leading to her false accusation of Lumumba.

One implication of this judgment is that some units of the Italian police under certain circumstances will commit serious violations of human rights to advance the arbitrary goals of the police, and the Italian judicial system is apparently incapable of addressing such violations of the European Convention on Human Rights. These failings of the Italian justice system can be considered as explanations for the police and judicial treatment of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito in this case.


http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/cronaca ... 69d35.html

Google translation of excerpts:

G8: Italy again condemned by Strasbourg for Diaz's violence
The Court also condemned the country for not having properly punished the perpetrators

Italian laws are inadequate to punish and thus prevent acts of torture committed by law enforcement. It has been established by the European Court of Human Rights which again condemned Italy for acts of torture perpetrated by law enforcement in the night between 20 and 21 July 2001 at the Diaz School, at the margins of the G8 in Genoa, To the damage of several people. The Court also condemned Italy for failing to adequately punish those responsible for what happened in Genoa.

Yesterday, the Council of Europe invited the Chamber of Deputies {of the Italian Parliament} to amend the text of the law against torture that is being discussed and that should go to the Chamber 29 because in its present form it contains a definition of the offense and various elements that are in disagreement with what is prescribed By international standards. This is what Nils Miuznieks, Council of Europe's Human Rights Commissioner, {pointed out} in a letter sent to the Presidents of the two branches of Parliament, Laura Boldrini and Pietro Grasso. ....
Expert witness testimony must be the product of reliable principles and methods. {Paraphrase of Fed. Rules of Evidence 702c}
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Annella » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:13 pm

Numbers wrote:
Numbers wrote:
european neighbour wrote:
Numbers wrote:The ECHR has scheduled an important Italian human rights case for judgment by 22 June 2017.


Italia condannato:
http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/cronaca ... 69d35.html
http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng-press?i=0 ... 18-7319590


Here is the ECHR press release summary. The judgment is available only in French.

The treatment to which the applicants were subjected during an
anti-globalisation demonstration amounted to torture

In today’s Chamber judgment in the case of Bartesaghi Gallo and Others v. Italy
(applications nos. 12131/13 and 43390/13) the European Court of Human Rights held, unanimously, that there had been:

a violation of Article 3 (prohibition of torture and inhuman or degrading treatment) of the European Convention on Human Rights.

The case concerned the ill-treatment to which 42 demonstrators were subjected by police officers inside a school, in the context of an anti-globalisation demonstration organised to coincide with the 27th summit of the eight major industrialised countries (G8). The Court found in particular that the treatment to which the applicants had been subjected should be regarded as torture, on account of the “severe” physical and psychological suffering it had caused them and its particularly serious and cruel nature. The applicants had been both victims of and witnesses to the use of uncontrolled violence by the police, with officers systematically beating each of the school’s occupants, including those who were lying down or sitting with their hands up, despite the fact that the occupants had not committed any act of violence or resistance against the police.

The Court, noting that the domestic procedure in question was the same procedure that had led to a finding of a violation in the case of Cestaro v. Italy, therefore saw no reason to depart from its findings in that case, including with regard to the shortcomings of the Italian legal system concerning the punishment of torture.
_____
The ECHR has issued a judgment in one of the "noteworthy pending cases" against Italy listed in Italy's Country Profile. Knox v. Italy is another "noteworthy pending case" in that list, although it has not yet been judged.

Significant findings of the case that has been judged is that the Italian police had tortured non-violent peaceful demonstrators at the G8 summit, and that the dysfunction of the Italian judicial and legal system prevented those police who had committed these acts to be adequately disciplined or punished according to any law. These failures amounted to a violation of Convention Article 3, the prohibition of torture and inhuman or degrading treatment. One allegation in Knox v. Italy is that there was a violation of Article 3 (degrading treatment) during the interrogation of Knox on Nov. 5/6, leading to her false accusation of Lumumba.

One implication of this judgment is that some units of the Italian police under certain circumstances will commit serious violations of human rights to advance the arbitrary goals of the police, and the Italian judicial system is apparently incapable of addressing such violations of the European Convention on Human Rights. These failings of the Italian justice system can be considered as explanations for the police and judicial treatment of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito in this case.


http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/cronaca ... 69d35.html

Google translation of excerpts:

G8: Italy again condemned by Strasbourg for Diaz's violence
The Court also condemned the country for not having properly punished the perpetrators

Italian laws are inadequate to punish and thus prevent acts of torture committed by law enforcement. It has been established by the European Court of Human Rights which again condemned Italy for acts of torture perpetrated by law enforcement in the night between 20 and 21 July 2001 at the Diaz School, at the margins of the G8 in Genoa, To the damage of several people. The Court also condemned Italy for failing to adequately punish those responsible for what happened in Genoa.

Yesterday, the Council of Europe invited the Chamber of Deputies {of the Italian Parliament} to amend the text of the law against torture that is being discussed and that should go to the Chamber 29 because in its present form it contains a definition of the offense and various elements that are in disagreement with what is prescribed By international standards. This is what Nils Miuznieks, Council of Europe's Human Rights Commissioner, {pointed out} in a letter sent to the Presidents of the two branches of Parliament, Laura Boldrini and Pietro Grasso. ....


Just as a matter of interest, this video is worth listening to. A fellow New Zealander describes his ordeal at the hands of Italian police after being arrested re the G8 summit. It is horrific. His written piece which was very graphic seems to have disappeared.

https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/01/332603.html

Lots more info on how police treated the protesters....

https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/02/332829.html
'The Italian concept of judicial truth does not trouble itself with reality; it controls the narrative by controlling the past"
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby european neighbour » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:10 pm

Will Perugia be Napoleoni's Waterloo?
https://www.umbria24.it/cronaca/perugia ... a-giudizio
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Hans » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:52 pm

european neighbour wrote:Will Perugia be Napoleoni's Waterloo?
https://www.umbria24.it/cronaca/perugia ... a-giudizio

It looks like the "Curse of the Witch of Perugia" is still working :winks:
He [Raffaele] is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque caricature that is “Foxy Knoxy”
~ Amanda Knox
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Annella » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:26 pm

Hans wrote:
european neighbour wrote:Will Perugia be Napoleoni's Waterloo?
https://www.umbria24.it/cronaca/perugia ... a-giudizio

It looks like the "Curse of the Witch of Perugia" is still working :winks:


A google translation of the link......( not the best!) goo.gl/hKusSM
'The Italian concept of judicial truth does not trouble itself with reality; it controls the narrative by controlling the past"
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby toto » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:28 pm

Hi,
Is anyone able to tell me what has happened to the Sollecito / Gumbel defamation trial? Thanks
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Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011

Postby Zrausch » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:54 pm

european neighbour wrote:They are crazy!
http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/topnews ... 7b590.html


How does this fit in with the narrative that Raff's family can control the courts with a few phone calls or w/e.
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