Darlie Routier Advocate Discussion

Darlie Routier Advocate Discussion

Postby daniowen » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:52 am

Watch on youtube.com
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Re: Darlie Routier

Postby Sinsaint » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:53 am

Bravo Dani! Nice to see your post!
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Re: Darlie Routier

Postby daniowen » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:05 pm

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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Grayhawker » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:10 am

I signed the petition for Darlie.
Paolo Micheli stated with regard to Amanda and Raffaele: "We do not need evidence, common sense and logic tell us that they dated each other to commit this crime."
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby patricking » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:45 pm

In terms of a list of things that need to be accomplished in the Darlie Routier appeals:

1. There was no blood from Devon Routier on that knife OR the knife was improperly tested by the state. Putting someone to death with a question like this hanging over the case seems incredibly cavalier to me. If the child was killed with a weapon not left at the crime scene it goes a long way to verifying Mrs. Routier's explanation of the crime. But if the weapon was only swabbed as many fans of this prosecution maintain, then the weapon was not correctly examined in compliance with international forensic regulations. The state of Texas should not be given a pass on this.

2. Judge Francis ruled that the 33,000 errors in the trial transcript was unacceptable and that a stenographer named Susan Simmons would recreated the transcripts from audio tape. This was a fairly unprecedented judicial decision. Ms. Simmons was never once in that court room during the trial, but also those audio tapes were made clandestinely. They were not sanctioned by the court and are of questionable quality. But the biggest issue is that IF Ms. Simmons ever completed the project she didn't sign off on any pages. All the transcripts available are signed by Sandra Halsey and must therefore contain the 33,000 errors. Ms. Simmons was directed to "recreate" the transcripts not correct them. We need to get to the bottom of this issue. Those errors should have assured Darlie Routier a new trial.

3. There were either 2 or 4 unidentified fingerprints in blood found at the crime scene. That was 17 years ago and Mrs. Routier has been on death row all that time. Still those fingerprints have NEVER been run through AFIS. How can someone be sentenced to death with absolute verifying evidence that someone unknown to the family and investigators was unequivocally there at the time of the crime? Why wouldn't a court seeking justice have run those prints through AFIS BEFORE the case went to trial? Why in the 17 years since Darlie Routier has been on death row has no one run those prints through AFIS? This needs to be done and it is only right that it be done, the sooner the better.

These are just three outstanding problems with the conviction of Darlie Routier. If they do not prove her innocence they strongly imply that she was at least treated very unfairly. When all three of these problems are taken into consideration it is easy to believe that Darlie Routier was actually railroaded and there is an insouciant lack of interest in learning the truth about these crimes.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby daniowen » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:06 pm

Court Reporter Sandra M. Halsey claimed the transcripts were fine, but three court appointed experts claimed otherwise.. All three found discrepencies in the transcripts saying it was an utter failure. Judge orders another Court Reporter to "reconstruct" the transcripts a Ms. Susan Simmons.. Susan Simmons said she believed she was able to reconstruct the transcripts. Well How do you reconstruct something when you were not there in the first place? How can she determine if the records are accurate? Granted she as fixing some one else's errors but how is she to now what was added or most important LEFT OUT!! That in itself should have been reason enough for Darlie to receive a new trial
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Clive Wismayer » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:52 pm

daniowen wrote:Court Reporter Sandra M. Halsey claimed the transcripts were fine, but three court appointed experts claimed otherwise.. All three found discrepencies in the transcripts saying it was an utter failure. Judge orders another Court Reporter to "reconstruct" the transcripts a Ms. Susan Simmons.. Susan Simmons said she believed she was able to reconstruct the transcripts. Well How do you reconstruct something when you were not there in the first place? How can she determine if the records are accurate? Granted she as fixing some one else's errors but how is she to now what was added or most important LEFT OUT!! That in itself should have been reason enough for Darlie to receive a new trial

Well, over here, there would be a tape. Even with that it would not be easy. If there's no tape it's impossible unless she took excellent shorthand that somebody else can read.

What sort of mistakes did she make? Was she merely incompetent or malevolent?
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby ljrobins » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:36 pm

patricking wrote:In terms of a list of things that need to be accomplished in the Darlie Routier appeals:

1. There was no blood from Devon Routier on that knife OR the knife was improperly tested by the state. Putting someone to death with a question like this hanging over the case seems incredibly cavalier to me. If the child was killed with a weapon not left at the crime scene it goes a long way to verifying Mrs. Routier's explanation of the crime. But if the weapon was only swabbed as many fans of this prosecution maintain, then the weapon was not correctly examined in compliance with international forensic regulations. The state of Texas should not be given a pass on this.


Hi Patrick. When I first started looking at this case years ago, it was this fact that bothered me initially more than anything else. I also think it is one of the 3 key things that tell me that there was at least one intruder. The other items are the bloody fingerprint and then the sock. I wonder if the fact that there is obviously two knives involved in the crime that maybe this means two men. Because, frankly, who the hell was that man the cop saw standing outside the house who he initially thought was Darin?
"I am not the only one. There are many other wrongfully convicted people and they need your support. They need a voice." - Ryan Ferguson
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Bruce Fischer » Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:01 pm

I added the case to http://www.Injustice-Anywhere.org and added a single page with links. We need a case overview for the site. I will be adding more informational pages today and tomorrow. There is a new site in the works http://www.darlielynnroutier.com so I don't think we need another new site. We can promote the family site http://www.fordarlieroutier.org as well.

Let me know who would be interested in writing the case overview.

This thread will be discussing projects that IA members will be involved with. Please post all ideas here.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby patricking » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:14 pm

ljrobins wrote:I wonder if the fact that there is obviously two knives involved in the crime that maybe this means two men.


It could be two people committed this crime or it could be that the perpetrator either broke his own knife in the process of stabbing Devon Routier or suddenly thought that using his own knife was first degree murder while using one of the knives from the kitchen he could argue second degree or ideas to that effect. One theory of the crime is that Darlie was clearly visible through the front window and the perpetrators entered with the idea of rape. When they accidentally stepped on the children asleep on the floor they panicked and murdered them.

While I'm not sure about this as a sole motive, I think it's a lot more plausible than that a woman with no prior problems with physical violence or even prior interactions with law enforcement, suddenly went mad and stabbed both of her children to death then denied it for 17 years while none of the physical evidence even implies her guilt. She was convicted on circumstantial evidence and even this had to be massaged and manipulated and much connected evidence left out of testimony to make her look guilty.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby patricking » Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:49 pm

Edited by moderator so YouTube link will play on the forum.

Watch on youtube.com
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby daniowen » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:31 am

Clive Wismayer wrote:
daniowen wrote:Court Reporter Sandra M. Halsey claimed the transcripts were fine, but three court appointed experts claimed otherwise.. All three found discrepencies in the transcripts saying it was an utter failure. Judge orders another Court Reporter to "reconstruct" the transcripts a Ms. Susan Simmons.. Susan Simmons said she believed she was able to reconstruct the transcripts. Well How do you reconstruct something when you were not there in the first place? How can she determine if the records are accurate? Granted she as fixing some one else's errors but how is she to now what was added or most important LEFT OUT!! That in itself should have been reason enough for Darlie to receive a new trial

Well, over here, there would be a tape. Even with that it would not be easy. If there's no tape it's impossible unless she took excellent shorthand that somebody else can read.

What sort of mistakes did she make? Was she merely incompetent or malevolent?

She misplaced answers that were being asked from both sides. Defendant and prosecutors side. I would say completely incompetent is three other court reporters have to go in and check her work and they see all of what she messed up and they call it a total fail.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby SundanceIM » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:51 pm

2. Judge Francis ruled that the 33,000 errors in the trial transcript was unacceptable and that a stenographer named Susan Simmons would recreated the transcripts from audio tape. This was a fairly unprecedented judicial decision. Ms. Simmons was never once in that court room during the trial, but also those audio tapes were made clandestinely. They were not sanctioned by the court and are of questionable quality. But the biggest issue is that IF Ms. Simmons ever completed the project she didn't sign off on any pages. All the transcripts available are signed by Sandra Halsey and must therefore contain the 33,000 errors. Ms. Simmons was directed to "recreate" the transcripts not correct them. We need to get to the bottom of this issue. Those errors should have assured Darlie Routier a new trial.

Hello Patrick,
I agree that the errors in the transcripts alone are enough to warrant a new trial. I can only assume that the Court's lack of concern for the errors in them was only another example of the railroading of Darlie.

However, I feel I must address the part of your post regarding the tapes' creation. Although two of the tapes were of questionable quality as they were inaudible, the recordings were not made clandestinely, but were recorded by Halsey using equipment that she was not entirely familiar with. The jury selection tapes were recorded first, and when they returned to court the following January to begin the actual trial, she was using different equipment to record the tapes. Equipment she was not familiar with and had not used before. Afterwards when she checked two of those tapes she was unable to hear anything but static. She neglected to check all the tapes, and just assumed the others were of inadequate volume as well. (Bad assumption in my opinion, especially with someone's freedom and very life on the line.)

I found this information while reading the transcripts from the Sandra Halsey Disciplinary Hearing before the Texas Court Reporters Certification Board of June 5, 1999.

I have those transcripts if you would care to read them, I could email them to you. (I am new to this board and not sure if there is a way to attach files to posts yet, please forgive my ignorance if this is possible and I am not aware of it yet.)

Halsey had previously informed the Court that no tapes existed for the evidentiary and sentencing portions of the trial. Her explanation was that there was a battery failure in a microphone that caused there not to be audible audiotapes. She insisted that she did not realize the microphone needed batteries. She told them that she had lied because she had concerns about the Routier case being reversed if they couldn't get a certifiable record for the appeal process.

<snip>
17 Q. All right. On that day, did you go in and
18 meet privately with Judge Francis?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. You told him there that -- that there were
21 no usable audiotape?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Or no audiotapes. And that was not
24 truthful, was it?
25 A. That was not truthful at that point.
(Page break)
1 Q. Why did you do that?
2 A. I was so scared of Judge Francis. I had
3 already heard what a temper he has. I didn't want
4 to do anything that would upset this appeal. And I
5 hadn't listened to them. I didn't want to take --
6 have them take audio recordings if -- if there was
7 something on them which Susy had, between that time,
8 told me there was. And just pick -- had this
9 happen, what's happened. Pick apart every little
10 thing.
</snip>

She stated she found out after an October 30 1998 hearing that her daughter, who was one of her scopist for the transcript did in fact know that audible tapes did exist; that they were not all inaudible. She ultimately admitted that tapes did indeed exist to Judge Robert Francis on Nov 12, 1998 at a prehearing conference, at this time she was offered immunity from a perjury charge if she would produce the actual tapes.

As I said, I will be glad to send you these transcripts if you don’t have them. Here is another portion of it:

<snip>
9 Q. Did you not advise several people that
10 were associated in this Routier case in one way or
11 another, whether they were lawyers or court
12 reporters that were helping out or the judge, but
13 you advised a number of people associated with that
14 case that there were, in fact, no audiotape
15 recordings of the evidentiary and the sentencing
16 portion of the case.
17 A. Well, if I can make a clarification on
18 that.
19 Q. Please.
20 A. I said no usable audiotapes. I had made
21 tapes. I thought I repeated over and over. I made
22 tapes, but found out because I had changed equipment
23 from the voir dire portion of the trial until we
24 went back in January, different equipment and that
25 those -- that the jury trial portion, those tapes
(Page break)
1 that I made were not -- I couldn't hear them.
2 Q. Well, let me ask you this: How many of
3 the tapes did you play back and listen to determine
4 that you could not hear them?
5 A. I put two different ones in the
6 transcriber that was in my office and I could hear
7 nothing but static. And that -- that's all I heard.
8 Q. And when did you do that, approximately,
9 approximate date?
10 A. Approximate date? Middle or end of
11 February at my office.
</snip>

I felt like that I should give you this information so that your posts continue to be well informed as well as informative to the readers, as they have been. I am not trying to be a smart ass or anything of that nature, and I hope you take this in the spirit it is given.

Thanks for your time,
Sundance

PS I see the attachment feature here at the bottom, and will try to use it. ::doh::
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Clive Wismayer » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:23 am

Where does the 33,000 number come from? How is it known exactly that there are that number, or approximate number, of errors?
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby spoookee » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:12 pm

Below is a case summary that was done by Carol Factor, close friend to Darlie Kee, who is very knowledgeable about the case. This was written for HopeMob donations for Darlie's DNA testing. I asked Carol if I could use it as the basis for my YouTube page for Darlie. I think this is a great overview...


Darlie Routier has been on death row in Gatesville, Texas, since she was convicted of the murder of one of her two sons, who were killed in the early morning of June 6, 1996.

Darlie and Darin Routier were high-school sweethearts who married in August 1988, after Darlie completed high-school. By 1989, they had their first boy, Devon Rush, and in 1991, Damon Christian, their second son was born.

As their family grew, so did Darin's computer-related business and the family moved to an affluent area known as Dalrock Heights Addition in Rowlett, Texas. Life was going well for the Routier’s. But with the future came tragedy, one that no one could ever predict.
Around 2:30 am on the morning on June 6, 1996, the Rowlett Police received the 911 emergency call from the Routier home. Darlie screamed that she and her two young boys had been stabbed by an intruder. Darin Routier, sleeping upstairs with baby Damon, heard Darlie's screams and ran down the stairs into the family room. He entered the room and saw the blood-soaked bodies of his two sons and his wife. Just hours before, Darin had left his wife sleeping on the couch in the family room downstairs with their two sons lying near her on the floor by the television.

The house quickly filled with paramedics and police. The paramedics began trying to save the children as the police searched the home for the intruder who Darlie said had run in the direction of the attached garage. Policeman David Waddell and Sergeant Matthew Walling noted a bloody knife on the kitchen counter, Darlie's purse and expensive jewelry lying near it, a slash in the screen of a window in the garage, and splattered blood on the floor.

The medics were unable to save either child. The knife thrusts left deep gashes in the boys' chests and punctured their lungs. Gasping for air, they both suffered horrible deaths. Darlie's throat was slashed to within 2 millimeters of severing hercarotid artery. She also suffered multiple injuries, intense bruising and stab wounds. Darlie and Darin were taken to the hospital and the Rowlett Police Department seized the house and began their investigation. Routier’s claims that an intruder had attached them were ignored and within twenty minutes the Rowlett Police Department decided she was their suspect and her wounds were self-inflicted. Twelve days later, she was arrested. Seven months later, she was convicted and sentenced to die.

With no evidence, no confession, no motive, and no eyewitness, she was convicted and sentenced to death.

The prosecution’s case against Darlie Routier was circumstantial and based solely on theories about evidence collected or viewed at the crime scene. The prosecution did what it set out to do, which was to get the jury to find Darlie guilty of murder, yet all the evidence was not shown to the jury. The evidence collected at the crime scene was contaminated by being crammed into bags without any attempt to preserve the integrity of this evidence.

Many issues and facts have come to light after Darlie was convicted and sentenced to death row that provide more than enough evidence that she deserves a new trial. Some of those issues include:

The attorney that represented Darlie Routier at trial had a conflict of interest, because he reportedly had a pre-arrangement with Darin Routier and other family members not to pursue any defense that could implicate Darin. This attorney allegedly stopped key experts for the defense from completing forensic examinations.

Other areas of concern which were never brought to the attention of the jury include the pictures of Darlie's cuts and bruises on her arms which were taken when she was hospitalized the night of the murders. At least one juror told reporters later that he would never have voted to convict if he had been allowed to see the photographs.

Bloody fingerprints have been found that do not belong to Darlie, Darin, the children or any of the police or other people in the Routier house the night of the murder. This contradicts testimony given during her trial that there were no fingerprints found outside the home. A hair found in the screen that was cut was later found to belong to one of the detectives at the crime scene the night of the murders.

Questions that need to be answered:
• A bloody fingerprint was found on the credenza behind the loveseat next to the kitchen. Who does it belong to?
• There was a bloody fingerprint on the door of the garage. Who does it belong to?
• Darin Routier's jeans had blood on them. Whose blood is it?
• A pubic hair and facial hair was found in the Routier living room. Who does it belong to? Former DNA testing revealed that these did not belong to anyone in the Routier family.
• How did the blood on Darlie's nightshirt get there and whose is it?
o Did the police get debris/fiber on the knife in the kitchen while investigating the murder or did it come from the screen door or another source? The same fingerprint brush was used on this knife as was used on the screen contaminating the integrity of the evidence.
Whose limb hairs were on a bloody tube sock found outside the Routier’s home more than 75 yards away (also, a deer hair was found on this sock)?

Darin Routier admitted to trying to arrange an insurance scam prior to the murders, which included having someone break into their home. He has admitted that he had begun the initial steps to arrange this break-in, but that it was to be done when no one was at home. No jury has heard anything about this admission.

The incriminating birthday party video (filmed without permission) that was viewed by the jury showed Darlie along with other family members celebrating the birthday of one of her murdered sons but did not include the filming of the hours previous to that scene when Darlie sobbed and grieved over the graves of her sons with her husband Darin. Why was the additional footage of the families’ periods of extreme grief and sadness not shown to the jury? Only a portion with the famous “silly string” celebration was looked at by the jury. See the You Tube link about the silly string at: Doubt in the Darlie Routier case: the "silly string" video

Neighbors reported seeing a black car sitting in front of the Routier home a week before the murders took place. Other neighbors reported seeing the same car leaving the area on the night of the murders. These reports were not investigated by police even though they had the license plate information.

Investigators during her trial invoked their Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination during cross examination, preventing the defense from rebutting their testimony. What did these investigators fear by being cross-examined?

More Questions that Need Answers
• The screen which investigators reported to the press as being cut from the inside was later proven in court to be cut from the outside.
• When the paramedics arrived at the scene they said that Darin Routier was outside, but Darin was inside trying to save his children. Who was the man outside and why has an attempt to identify him been stalled for years?
• The testimony from the nurses in the hospital is purported to have been coached and rehearsed in mock trials by the prosecution (Toby Shook) prior to their testimony.
• The surgeon who operated on Darlie said that the cut in her neck was 2mm of the carotid sheath but was superficial to the carotid artery. Yet, the necklace she was wearing was damaged as a result of the wound but it also blocked the knife from going deeper into her neck. The jury was not presented a clear understanding as to the seriousness of her wounds.
• There was improper read-back of testimony to the jury by the court reporter, due to over 33,000 errors she made in the transcript. This court reporter later admitted that she hid 140 transcript tapes in her personal storage shed.
• The prosecution refused to provide access to all evidence in their custody in the case.
• The advancements in DNA testing could put many of these questions to rest. Why is there such a reluctance to complete the testing? And, why is the process to complete the testing taking years to complete?
• The 911 tape played for the jurors during the trial had been altered to remove crucial information that would have helped Darlie. Only recently have we obtained the original 911 tape with proof of tampering.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby spoookee » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:15 pm

Clive Wismayer wrote:Where does the 33,000 number come from? How is it known exactly that there are that number, or approximate number, of errors?


That's a good question Clive. I don't know exactly. I'm assuming defense reviewing the transcripts while listening to the audio. I know in documentaries and articles, Sandra Halsey claimed that they were minor errors: things like using "a" where an" should be, or missing punctuation, etc.

However defense says it's the difference between "yes" and "no," etc.

This is probably the biggest issue that infuriates me about this case. She should have been granted a new trial ON THAT BASIS ALONE. It just shows you the corruption in the Dallas area. And...lets not forget, there wasn't even a HEARING HELD on the matter. There was SUPPOSED to be, but the Judge summarily reviewed the motion and made his decision without the need for a hearing, and announced his decision right before the hearing was to be held.

In other words, you can bet the bank that Judge Francis was paid a little visit by the prosecution....
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby spoookee » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:22 pm

patricking wrote:
ljrobins wrote:I wonder if the fact that there is obviously two knives involved in the crime that maybe this means two men.


It could be two people committed this crime or it could be that the perpetrator either broke his own knife in the process of stabbing Devon Routier or suddenly thought that using his own knife was first degree murder while using one of the knives from the kitchen he could argue second degree or ideas to that effect. One theory of the crime is that Darlie was clearly visible through the front window and the perpetrators entered with the idea of rape. When they accidentally stepped on the children asleep on the floor they panicked and murdered them.

While I'm not sure about this as a sole motive, I think it's a lot more plausible than that a woman with no prior problems with physical violence or even prior interactions with law enforcement, suddenly went mad and stabbed both of her children to death then denied it for 17 years while none of the physical evidence even implies her guilt. She was convicted on circumstantial evidence and even this had to be massaged and manipulated and much connected evidence left out of testimony to make her look guilty.


It is my personal belief that there were two men. For one, I do not believe that the knife that was used on Damon and Darlie was used on Devon. I think even when the knife is tested completely, they will not find any of his blood on it. Darin mentioned in one of the very early Leeza Gibbons shows that, in addition to the lack of blood on the knife, it was the "WIDTH" of Devon's wounds that caused concern. If you've seen any of the close up autopsy photos, you would see what he meant. Damon's wounds closed very - "smoothly," for lack of a better word. Had he lived, his scars would look much like the stab wound scar on Darlie's right arm. During the autopsy, they close the wounds up against a measuring ruler so that you can see the length of the blade/wound. Damon's close up smoothly. Devon's do not. Even when they try to "close" his wound for the photo by the ruler, it leaves a gaping hole. What type of a knife would leave such a wound? A double edged one that is wider in the middle.

Darlie, under hypnosis (which is not admitted in court) recalled TWO men.

Also, Waddell ran into a man outside the front of the house when he arrived on scene. He let the man go. Who knows what the man initially REALLY said to Waddell, as Waddell will most likely take that information to the grave. BUT, in more recent interviews, he now claims that it was Darin and he was going to get a nurse from across the street. (That is NOT what he said at trial.) So imagine gumshoe Waddell's surprise when, he walks into the house and low and behold, there is Darin Routier, tending to Devon.

Darlie also references "they" in her 911 call. Prosecution points to this as guilt. I disagree. I do not think she "slept through" the attack obviously. No one could. However she put up a heck of a fight and lost a lot of blood. She was rendered unconscious and then REGAINED CONSCIOUSNESS, when she says she "woke up." She was immediately on the phone with 911 after that. I think it was just her subliminal mind repeating "they" from the attack.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby daniowen » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:23 pm

spoookee wrote:
Clive Wismayer wrote:Where does the 33,000 number come from? How is it known exactly that there are that number, or approximate number, of errors?


That's a good question Clive. I don't know exactly. I'm assuming defense reviewing the transcripts while listening to the audio. I know in documentaries and articles, Sandra Halsey claimed that they were minor errors: things like using "a" where an" should be, or missing punctuation, etc.

However defense says it's the difference between "yes" and "no," etc.

This is probably the biggest issue that infuriates me about this case. She should have been granted a new trial ON THAT BASIS ALONE. It just shows you the corruption in the Dallas area. And...lets not forget, there wasn't even a HEARING HELD on the matter. There was SUPPOSED to be, but the Judge summarily reviewed the motion and made his decision without the need for a hearing, and announced his decision right before the hearing was to be held.

In other words, you can bet the bank that Judge Francis was paid a little visit by the prosecution....
I am assuming that is what the other court reporter were saying that they found between what The original court reporter wrote and what they compared it too? Maybe just a estimation of what they found, but that is a large amount of errors and I am sure there are more to be found. That is why she should have been granted a new trial. I can only assume that since the other experts were not at he trial (from what I know) that they based it off of what they read and the records of what was shown as evidence that it was a catastrophe from the very beginning. Its hard to say now what The first court reporter wrote and what the last court reporter tried to fix on what exactly is the actual old or new transcripts. Sometimes when trying to fnd them and read them you see the original reporters name and the one who tried to fix it.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby spoookee » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:25 pm

Footage about "the bloody fingerprint:"

Note: since airing of this show, both boys were exhumed and the print does not match either boy.

As the retired detective says, an unidentified bloody fingerprint ON the crime scene is BIG evidence. This should be in AFIS and I want to know why it is not!!!! I think we should push for that, in whatever way that we can.

Watch on youtube.com


I ALSO think it's long overdue that the public see some of the Memorial Service that was held for the boys PRIOR TO the silly string incident. Why Mulder didn't insist that this was shown during trial is beyond me. The man was incompetent.

Watch on youtube.com
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby SundanceIM » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:32 pm

Clive Wismayer wrote:Where does the 33,000 number come from? How is it known exactly that there are that number, or approximate number, of errors?


Hello Clive,
I was able to document the following:

Court reporter Jerry Callaway, a former board member, said it had been
difficult for him to lodge the complaint against Ms. Halsey, whom he
considers a friend. But he said he felt he needed to after reviewing random
parts of Ms. Halsey's notes and transcript and discovering discrepancies.

That review was prompted by concerns expressed by Ms. Routier's appellate
attorneys, and it led to a full-scale review of the transcript by Ms.
Simmons.

Ms. Simmons testified Saturday that she made more than 18,000 corrections on
about 6,000 pages of Ms. Halsey's transcript of the guilt-innocence and
punishment phases
. She said there were typographical errors, misspellings,
misidentifications of speakers, omitted words and incorrect words.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010908192714/http://www.dallasnews.com/metro/0606met100halsey.htm

During a brief hearing Friday, court reporter Sandy Halsey told state district Judge Robert Francis that she couldn't find an audiotape needed to reconstruct 53 pages of her transcript in the Darlie Routier capital murder trial.

http://lubbockonline.com/stories/020500/sta_0205000078.shtml

After Halsey prepared and filed the Routier transcript, the County hired another court reporter to review her work.
The second court reporter later testified to finding approximately 18,000 errors in the 6,000 pages of the record.

https://www.supreme.courts.state.tx.us/historical/2002/oct/010784.htm

I am unable to find any documentation other than media reports of 33,000 errors, so I am not sure where that number came from. That being said, I find that 18.000 errors is not acceptable to me, but that's just my opinion. :noway:

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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby jane » Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:29 am

From questions in a previous post: • How did the blood on Darlie's nightshirt get there and whose is it?

Spoookee, is there some reason you think the blood on the nightshirt is not Darlee's?
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby ljrobins » Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:35 pm

jane wrote:From questions in a previous post: • How did the blood on Darlie's nightshirt get there and whose is it?

Spoookee, is there some reason you think the blood on the nightshirt is not Darlee's?


I believe Bevel testified that it was "splatter" that "proved" Darlie stabbed one of the boys after she "stabbed herself." Sinsaint or others will confirm, but what wasn't discussed in trial was that her clothes and towels with the boys blood were put in the same BROWN BAG that was taken to the fire station. We know Bevel's testimony around blood evidence is highly problematic and that in this case they didn't treat the evidence appropriately -- thus, likely contaminating Darlie's night dress with the one of her boy's blood.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Clive Wismayer » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:33 pm

SundanceIM wrote:
Clive Wismayer wrote:Where does the 33,000 number come from? How is it known exactly that there are that number, or approximate number, of errors?


Hello Clive,
I was able to document the following:

Court reporter Jerry Callaway, a former board member, said it had been
difficult for him to lodge the complaint against Ms. Halsey, whom he
considers a friend. But he said he felt he needed to after reviewing random
parts of Ms. Halsey's notes and transcript and discovering discrepancies.

That review was prompted by concerns expressed by Ms. Routier's appellate
attorneys, and it led to a full-scale review of the transcript by Ms.
Simmons.

Ms. Simmons testified Saturday that she made more than 18,000 corrections on
about 6,000 pages of Ms. Halsey's transcript of the guilt-innocence and
punishment phases
. She said there were typographical errors, misspellings,
misidentifications of speakers, omitted words and incorrect words.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010908192714/http://www.dallasnews.com/metro/0606met100halsey.htm

During a brief hearing Friday, court reporter Sandy Halsey told state district Judge Robert Francis that she couldn't find an audiotape needed to reconstruct 53 pages of her transcript in the Darlie Routier capital murder trial.

http://lubbockonline.com/stories/020500/sta_0205000078.shtml

After Halsey prepared and filed the Routier transcript, the County hired another court reporter to review her work.
The second court reporter later testified to finding approximately 18,000 errors in the 6,000 pages of the record.

https://www.supreme.courts.state.tx.us/historical/2002/oct/010784.htm

I am unable to find any documentation other than media reports of 33,000 errors, so I am not sure where that number came from. That being said, I find that 18.000 errors is not acceptable to me, but that's just my opinion. :noway:

Sundance

Thanks. Spelling errors and typos are mostly OK (but not necessarily - it's easy to type 'not' instead of 'now' and end up with a completely different meaning) but the other things you mention can be more serious. However, the jury presumably did not convict on the transcript but on the evidence they saw and heard so it's not obvious by itself why these 18,000 or 33.000 errors mean the trial was not fair.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby ljrobins » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:46 pm

Clive Wismayer wrote:
SundanceIM wrote:
Clive Wismayer wrote:Where does the 33,000 number come from? How is it known exactly that there are that number, or approximate number, of errors?


Hello Clive,
I was able to document the following:

Court reporter Jerry Callaway, a former board member, said it had been
difficult for him to lodge the complaint against Ms. Halsey, whom he
considers a friend. But he said he felt he needed to after reviewing random
parts of Ms. Halsey's notes and transcript and discovering discrepancies.

That review was prompted by concerns expressed by Ms. Routier's appellate
attorneys, and it led to a full-scale review of the transcript by Ms.
Simmons.

Ms. Simmons testified Saturday that she made more than 18,000 corrections on
about 6,000 pages of Ms. Halsey's transcript of the guilt-innocence and
punishment phases
. She said there were typographical errors, misspellings,
misidentifications of speakers, omitted words and incorrect words.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010908192714/http://www.dallasnews.com/metro/0606met100halsey.htm

During a brief hearing Friday, court reporter Sandy Halsey told state district Judge Robert Francis that she couldn't find an audiotape needed to reconstruct 53 pages of her transcript in the Darlie Routier capital murder trial.

http://lubbockonline.com/stories/020500/sta_0205000078.shtml

After Halsey prepared and filed the Routier transcript, the County hired another court reporter to review her work.
The second court reporter later testified to finding approximately 18,000 errors in the 6,000 pages of the record.

https://www.supreme.courts.state.tx.us/historical/2002/oct/010784.htm

I am unable to find any documentation other than media reports of 33,000 errors, so I am not sure where that number came from. That being said, I find that 18.000 errors is not acceptable to me, but that's just my opinion. :noway:

Sundance

Thanks. Spelling errors and typos are mostly OK (but not necessarily - it's easy to type 'not' instead of 'now' and end up with a completely different meaning) but the other things you mention can be more serious. However, the jury presumably did not convict on the transcript but on the evidence they saw and heard so it's not obvious by itself why these 18,000 or 33.000 errors mean the trial was not fair.


Hey Clive. :wave: I am just wondering how such an error filled document is considered with respect to appeals -- since the "law" is based on what was in trial and how the conviction played out based on the letter of the law. I am probably not asking my question very clearly, but how do you put forth an appeal when the transcripts that a judgement was based on are in huge error?
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Clive Wismayer » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:29 pm

ljrobins wrote:Hey Clive. :wave: I am just wondering how such an error filled document is considered with respect to appeals -- since the "law" is based on what was in trial and how the conviction played out based on the letter of the law. I am probably not asking my question very clearly, but how do you put forth an appeal when the transcripts that a judgement was based on are in huge error?

With great difficulty, no doubt. Added difficulty where, as I think happened here, a new legal team that did not hear the original evidence conducts the appeal. But not impossible. It ought to be possible to point to material errors in the transcript, over and above spelling errors etc. and discuss how they impact on the process. IOW its not enough by itself to announce a large number of transcript errors and claim the right to a new trial. The law of Texas may say otherwise, I don't know.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby spoookee » Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:42 am

Thank you Sundance!!!!

Jane - I'm not sure what you mean. I think that almost all of the blood on Darlie's nightshirt is Darlie's. It's my understanding that they only found one - ONE - speck of what was a mixture of Devon and Damon's blood (very small) on the back of her shoulder. Yet they think it got there by cast off as she stabbed them. Defense finds that impossible and ludicrous. If she had cast off blood spatter, as she should have if it were indeed her that stabbed the boys, she should have had a LOT more than one almost microscopic speck. I think it got there by transfer, personally. Either while Darin and Darlie were tending to the boys, or more likely, when they bagged up the evidence improperly.

As for her trial, the NUMBER and TYPES of errors make it a HUGE deal. She should have gotten a new trial years ago based upon the transcript issue in and of itself.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Clive Wismayer » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:51 am

spoookee wrote:Thank you Sundance!!!!

Jane - I'm not sure what you mean. I think that almost all of the blood on Darlie's nightshirt is Darlie's. It's my understanding that they only found one - ONE - speck of what was a mixture of Devon and Damon's blood (very small) on the back of her shoulder. Yet they think it got there by cast off as she stabbed them. Defense finds that impossible and ludicrous. If she had cast off blood spatter, as she should have if it were indeed her that stabbed the boys, she should have had a LOT more than one almost microscopic speck. I think it got there by transfer, personally. Either while Darin and Darlie were tending to the boys, or more likely, when they bagged up the evidence improperly.

As for her trial, the NUMBER and TYPES of errors make it a HUGE deal. She should have gotten a new trial years ago based upon the transcript issue in and of itself.

Can you cite any law on that?
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby jane » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:25 am

spoookee wrote:Thank you Sundance!!!!

Jane - I'm not sure what you mean. I think that almost all of the blood on Darlie's nightshirt is Darlie's. It's my understanding that they only found one - ONE - speck of what was a mixture of Devon and Damon's blood (very small) on the back of her shoulder. Yet they think it got there by cast off as she stabbed them. Defense finds that impossible and ludicrous. If she had cast off blood spatter, as she should have if it were indeed her that stabbed the boys, she should have had a LOT more than one almost microscopic speck. I think it got there by transfer, personally. Either while Darin and Darlie were tending to the boys, or more likely, when they bagged up the evidence improperly.

As for her trial, the NUMBER and TYPES of errors make it a HUGE deal. She should have gotten a new trial years ago based upon the transcript issue in and of itself.


Thanks spoookee, that answers my question about the blood on the nightshirt. I suppose Bevel was the one who testified about cast-off.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby spoookee » Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:57 am

jane wrote:
spoookee wrote:Thank you Sundance!!!!

Jane - I'm not sure what you mean. I think that almost all of the blood on Darlie's nightshirt is Darlie's. It's my understanding that they only found one - ONE - speck of what was a mixture of Devon and Damon's blood (very small) on the back of her shoulder. Yet they think it got there by cast off as she stabbed them. Defense finds that impossible and ludicrous. If she had cast off blood spatter, as she should have if it were indeed her that stabbed the boys, she should have had a LOT more than one almost microscopic speck. I think it got there by transfer, personally. Either while Darin and Darlie were tending to the boys, or more likely, when they bagged up the evidence improperly.

As for her trial, the NUMBER and TYPES of errors make it a HUGE deal. She should have gotten a new trial years ago based upon the transcript issue in and of itself.


Thanks spoookee, that answers my question about the blood on the nightshirt. I suppose Bevel was the one who testified about cast-off.


Yep, you got it Jane... ::doh::
Unbelievable huh?
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby spoookee » Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:21 am

Clive Wismayer wrote:
spoookee wrote:Thank you Sundance!!!!

Jane - I'm not sure what you mean. I think that almost all of the blood on Darlie's nightshirt is Darlie's. It's my understanding that they only found one - ONE - speck of what was a mixture of Devon and Damon's blood (very small) on the back of her shoulder. Yet they think it got there by cast off as she stabbed them. Defense finds that impossible and ludicrous. If she had cast off blood spatter, as she should have if it were indeed her that stabbed the boys, she should have had a LOT more than one almost microscopic speck. I think it got there by transfer, personally. Either while Darin and Darlie were tending to the boys, or more likely, when they bagged up the evidence improperly.

As for her trial, the NUMBER and TYPES of errors make it a HUGE deal. She should have gotten a new trial years ago based upon the transcript issue in and of itself.

Can you cite any law on that?


Well, here's a case at the U.S. Supreme Court Level that discusses the matter. I guess you can't get much more solid than that. Make sure to read the *dissenting opinion" at the end as well, which discusses verbatim transcripts, audio recordings, etc. http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions%5Cunpub%5C05/05-20838.0.wpd.pdf

Now as for how the judge "got away with his ruling" (for now)...?

"It is well established that the lack of a verbatim transcript is not a constitutional defect when a suitable alternative is provided. Mayer v. City of Chicago, 404 U.S. 189, 194, 92 S.Ct. 410, 414-415, 30 L.Ed.2d 372 (1971); Morgan v. Massey, 526 F.2d 347, 348 (5th Cir. 1976); Mack v. Walker, 372 F.2d 170, 172-174 (5th Cir. 1966). Quoting Draper v. Washington, 372 U.S. 487, 495, 83 S.Ct. 774, 9 L.Ed.2d 899 (1963), the Supreme Court reiterated in Mayer, supra, thatSU Alternative methods of reporting trial proceedings are permissible if they place before the appellate court an equivalent report of the events at trial from which the appellant's contentions arise. A statement of facts agreed to by both sides, a full narrative statement based perhaps on the trial judge's minutes taken during trial or on the court reporter's untranscribed notes, or a bystander's bill of exceptions might all be adequate substitutes, equally as good as a transcript. . . ." 583 F.2d 775

The thing is, in most of the cases where they determined that there was an "equivalent report," or in the cases where they ruled that the transcript wasn't "too full of errors," they were usually just typographical, and not substantive in nature. I saw one where there were 300 errors. This is an entirely different matter here. So we know there were at least 18,000 errors. That is *a lot*! As for untranscribed notes, Halsey's *did not match* what she was typing from what I understand, which is part of what brought this stink out to begin with. That is also why the second court reporter REFUSED to certify HER transcript. She did NOT feel that it offered an accurate portrayal because there were SO MANY errors in the portions she DID re-construct, from the tapes...then you've got MISSING tapes. I don't blame her. I wouldn't have certified it, either. I assume the local judge used this "loophole" for his original ruling. I also suspect that the higher courts are going to have a big problem with how this was handled.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby spoookee » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:36 pm

I'll be visiting Darlie tomorrow, April 12, 2014 at 5:30 p.m. if anyone has any case related questions you would like for me to ask. They won't let you so much as take in a piece of paper, so I have to go off of memory when I visit, but thankfully I have a decent one (memory, thus far that is). I will check this thread before my visit tomorrow afternoon. Or if you'd like to get me privately, spookystephtx@gmail.com
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby erasmus44 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:22 pm

I have read through a good deal of material and have tried to distill it into an "elevator speech" - I think that the strongest points in her favor are - 1. timeline - there just isn't enough time for her to do everything and then get on the 911 call, 2. the sock at a good distance from the house - implausible that she would plant it - it looks like something dropped by the perps by accident - also she made no reference to it until they discovered it, 3. the fingerprint - inconsistent with Darlie, her husband, the boys - must be an intruder, 4. her wounds - too severe to be self-inflicted, hard to do to yourself if you are right-handed, the bruises indicate self-defense. On the other side, we have no motive for an intruder to commit the crime, ambiguous evidence of a break in, difference in the type of wounds inflicted on Darlie and the boys, number of wounds on the boys suggest a "crime of passion" committed by someone who knows them, and bogus blood spatter evidence analyzed by the Professor Irwin Corey of criminal forensic "science". The investigation was subpar and this is one where, if we are honest, we may have to admit that we will never know for sure exactly what happened. But I just don't see how anyone can get to guilty beyond a reasonable doubt on these facts.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Clive Wismayer » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:48 am

erasmus44 wrote:I have read through a good deal of material and have tried to distill it into an "elevator speech" - I think that the strongest points in her favor are - 1. timeline - there just isn't enough time for her to do everything and then get on the 911 call, 2. the sock at a good distance from the house - implausible that she would plant it - it looks like something dropped by the perps by accident -also she made no reference to it until they discovered it, 3. the fingerprint - inconsistent with Darlie, her husband, the boys - must be an intruder, 4. her wounds - too severe to be self-inflicted, hard to do to yourself if you are right-handed, the bruises indicate self-defense. On the other side, we have no motive for an intruder to commit the crime, ambiguous evidence of a break in, difference in the type of wounds inflicted on Darlie and the boys, number of wounds on the boys suggest a "crime of passion" committed by someone who knows them, and bogus blood spatter evidence analyzed by the Professor Irwin Corey of criminal forensic "science". The investigation was subpar and this is one where, if we are honest, we may have to admit that we will never know for sure exactly what happened. But I just don't see how anyone can get to guilty beyond a reasonable doubt on these facts.

That point (the one highlighted) was answered by a pro-guilt poster recently. Their theory was that she was actually trying to hide the incriminating sock, not plant it. She ran to dump it in a trash can, missed and just ran back home without picking it up and shoving it in. Possible, but I still don't believe it. This person had her running out the front of the house in her husband's trainers which considerably lengthens the run and has her flip-flopping like Coco the clown in a man's shoes. She also had to fiddle with laces and replace them neatly by the front door as they were found. She risked being seen, when the game would surely be up, and of course also risked the husband waking up and finding a blood bath downstairs. But if she was cool enough for this she surely would have made sure the sock went in the trash or, alternatively, that she somehow worked the sock subtly into her story somehow to explain it once it was inevitably found. Also, there were probably a dozen places to hide it in the house (in a pot plant or something) without taking as much time or risk.

I see the motive as sexual with things going wrong when the intruder found the boys asleep on the floor.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby MisterMeaner » Sat May 10, 2014 3:42 pm

Saw this stuff :jaw-dropping: and read a boatload. :clue:
Thoughts: -sounds like the hubby's scheming for $$$ went thru & awry. The investigation was slanted from the get-go.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby MisterMeaner » Sat May 10, 2014 3:50 pm

Also (following with my theory) -the oddly, neatly and obvious display/placement of her jewelry ... could hubby have placed it there for his "robber" (who went horribly awol from the script & forgot/missed it) to take to help establish "robbery"?
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Bruce Fischer » Sun May 18, 2014 12:55 pm

I was really hoping to see more activity in this group. Several came forward stating that they would contribute when we voted to make this a featured case. We need Darlie's supporters here to come together so we can make progress.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby LarryK » Mon May 19, 2014 12:10 am

I'm still waiting to see her promised Case Overview on her IA page. (Though I can't commit to contribute, I want to follow her case.) Also, she is on the IA Home page but not the IA Featured Cases page.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Bruce Fischer » Mon May 19, 2014 1:03 am

LarryK wrote:I'm still waiting to see her promised Case Overview on her IA page. (Though I can't commit to contribute, I want to follow her case.) Also, she is on the IA Home page but not the IA Featured Cases page.


A supporter here offered to write the case overview. We are currently waiting for that.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby ljrobins » Mon May 19, 2014 4:36 pm

MisterMeaner wrote:Also (following with my theory) -the oddly, neatly and obvious display/placement of her jewelry ... could hubby have placed it there for his "robber" (who went horribly awol from the script & forgot/missed it) to take to help establish "robbery"?


Hi MisterMeaner,

I'm not at all convinced by the idea that Darin was behind what happened, but I suppose it is possible. I wonder what others think about that? Why do you think the placement of her jewelry is "oddly, neatly and obviously displayed?"
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby LarryK » Tue May 20, 2014 12:32 am

This is an alternative explanation which, unless discredited, generates doubt that Darlie is guilty. It's not necessary for a court to find this alternative to be the reality, just that it may be a plausible scenario where she would be innocent. (There may also be other credible innocent scenarios.)
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Poppy1016 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:49 pm

Anything new happening here? No posting isn being done.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Bruce Fischer » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:57 am

Poppy1016 wrote:Anything new happening here? No posting isn being done.


Unfortunately the supporters that were in favor of making this a featured case have been inactive. If we do not see organization soon we may need to add this to our profiled cases instead.

Our position on this case has not changed, but our featured case list only includes cases that we are actively working on. This was made very clear when discussing the addition of this case.

Other threads for featured cases on the forum are not active either but we have strong support and organization outside of the forum. The support for this case was generated here on the forum. I do not see IA support for this case elsewhere. We need to make positive contributions if we are going to claim that we are featuring a case.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby jane » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:00 pm

Bruce Fischer wrote:
Poppy1016 wrote:Anything new happening here? No posting isn being done.


Unfortunately the supporters that were in favor of making this a featured case have been inactive. If we do not see organization soon we may need to add this to our profiled cases instead.

Our position on this case has not changed, but our featured case list only includes cases that we are actively working on. This was made very clear when discussing the addition of this case.

Other threads for featured cases on the forum are not active either but we have strong support and organization outside of the forum. The support for this case was generated here on the forum. I do not see IA support for this case elsewhere. We need to make positive contributions if we are going to claim that we are featuring a case.


I'm very disappointed that nothing has been done since IA decided to make this a featured case. Wasn't there a group of people who agreed to work on it? Who was in charge of the group? I know that Clive is the one who presented the case to you asking for it to be a featured case.

I don't know enough about the case to be an active participant. But there were several people in the discussions who did. Sinsaint, LJ Robins and Darlie's family members.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Poppy1016 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:19 pm

Can anything be done to resurrect this forum, or is it dead?
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Poppy1016 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:45 pm

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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Clive Wismayer » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:14 am

I said when advocating this case be featured that I myself would not be able to devote major time to it. By that I mean, absorbing the entire trial file and appeals, reading around the relevant fields of expertise and framing arguments. That is a massive undertaking which some have already performed (Sinsaint being the main one) but for which I do not presently have time, unfortunately, as the case is certainly worth it in my opinion, being a ridiculous and obviously wrong conviction (at whichever angle you poke it with a stick it falls apart, as the bat-brained prosecution theory would lead you to expect anyway)

If there is another better-supported case on the forum (or even if not) I would have no problem with this one being reclassified as profiled. My impression, sadly, is that there is no great appetite for cases other than Amanda's and Raffaele's here.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Poppy1016 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:13 am

I am not as well versed as Clive, Sinsaint, and others. The one thing I do have is time. I'm not quite sure what I would be capable of doing, but I suppose I could help in some way. I am very interested in this case , and from all I have read, I see at least reasonable doubt here.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Sinsaint » Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:49 am

Bruce Fischer wrote:I was really hoping to see more activity in this group. Several came forward stating that they would contribute when we voted to make this a featured case. We need Darlie's supporters here to come together so we can make progress.


Sorry Bruce. I had some personal issues come up that required my full attention. For the most part, those issues have been resolved. Please let me know what is needed and I will get to work.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Poppy1016 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:29 pm

Sinsaint wrote:
Bruce Fischer wrote:I was really hoping to see more activity in this group. Several came forward stating that they would contribute when we voted to make this a featured case. We need Darlie's supporters here to come together so we can make progress.


Sorry Bruce. I had some personal issues come up that required my full attention. For the most part, those issues have been resolved. Please let me know what is needed and I will get to work.


Good to see you back
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Clive Wismayer » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:31 am

Is it old news? I just read on FB that a judge has dismissed opposition to further DNA testing on her T-shirt, the sock and the fingerprint. He has ordered that he is to be kept informed of progress at regular intervals.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby geebee2 » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:45 pm

I don't think there is any news, which likely accounts for the lack of activity here.

I think this photo says quite a lot : https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 1398090371

"LIVING WITH REGRET: Former juror Charlie Samford, pictured here in a Whataburger restaurant on Junction Highway in Ingram, holds a copy of the book that he said made him realize that there was more to the Darlie Routier case than he had known when he helped sentence the Rowlett mother to death in 1997. Years ago, Samford spoke to the imprisoned Routier by phone, and apologized for allowing himself to be swayed by other jurors convinced of her guilt. The greeting card on the table was sent to the TCCJ by Routier, along with a letter stating that she has “truly forgiven” Samford."
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby TruthMatters » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:33 pm

To anyone with direct evidence knowledge....Could the 'splatter' on Darli's nightgown be from attempting to help her son who was still breathing at the time or possibly from some type of chest compression she performed on the other son? Anyone who has ever worked as a first responder or in emergency medicine has had to deal with both the mist and the splatter-type spray that comes from specific wounds when you are performing CPR. Someone who was frantically performing incorrect CPR could really cause serious spray. Just curious and thanks in advance for your responses!

Also, I had posted on the other board before I read all the drama, I do not recall ANY mention of a SINGLE hesitation mark on ANY of Darlie's wounds. When someone self-inflicts knife wounds, even when they are intentionally committing suicide, there are still hesitation marks so if Darlie had none, how can anyone believe she caused these violent, vicious, painful injuries to herself?!
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby TruthMatters » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:40 pm

In regards to how we can help revive this case..... What will it take to get this case reheard? Is there a specific area of concentration like needing someone to physically read thru documents looking for X -Y - Z? Or what needs to be done? I've signed the petition, do not have much legal knowledge, but I do have a few hours here and there that I can give to you if I can help in any way. Please PM me here if there is anything I can do.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby TruthMatters » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:50 am

..
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Poppy1016 » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:05 pm

It is very sad that Darlie has been forgotten
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Clive Wismayer » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:05 am

Poppy1016 wrote:It is very sad that Darlie has been forgotten

She hasn't. Even if the discussion here suggests otherwise. DNA tests are awaited which may change the game.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Clive Wismayer » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:09 am

TruthMatters wrote:To anyone with direct evidence knowledge....Could the 'splatter' on Darli's nightgown be from attempting to help her son who was still breathing at the time or possibly from some type of chest compression she performed on the other son? Anyone who has ever worked as a first responder or in emergency medicine has had to deal with both the mist and the splatter-type spray that comes from specific wounds when you are performing CPR. Someone who was frantically performing incorrect CPR could really cause serious spray. Just curious and thanks in advance for your responses!

Also, I had posted on the other board before I read all the drama, I do not recall ANY mention of a SINGLE hesitation mark on ANY of Darlie's wounds. When someone self-inflicts knife wounds, even when they are intentionally committing suicide, there are still hesitation marks so if Darlie had none, how can anyone believe she caused these violent, vicious, painful injuries to herself?!

I am not a blood spatter expert but I am aware of how unreliable this type of evidence can be. It was used in the wrongful convictions of Sion Jenkins and David Camm but OTOH, because it didn't suit the crown's case, ignored as exculpatory evidence against Nyki Kish.

I am not sure that Darlie herself performed CPR in this case though.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Desperado » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:01 am

TruthMatters wrote:To anyone with direct evidence knowledge....Could the 'splatter' on Darli's nightgown be from attempting to help her son who was still breathing at the time or possibly from some type of chest compression she performed on the other son? Anyone who has ever worked as a first responder or in emergency medicine has had to deal with both the mist and the splatter-type spray that comes from specific wounds when you are performing CPR. Someone who was frantically performing incorrect CPR could really cause serious spray. Just curious and thanks in advance for your responses!

Also, I had posted on the other board before I read all the drama, I do not recall ANY mention of a SINGLE hesitation mark on ANY of Darlie's wounds. When someone self-inflicts knife wounds, even when they are intentionally committing suicide, there are still hesitation marks so if Darlie had none, how can anyone believe she caused these violent, vicious, painful injuries to herself?!


Darlies own statements do not say she ever preformed CPR on either child NOR do Darins Statements say that she did.Darin did not have cast off on his back and he did testify that he gave CPR ( 7 years certified in CPR) to Devon and Blood gushed out of his chest according to statements Darlie was on the other side of the room when this spray occurred In Giving CPR one would be facing the inflicted person to preform it any spry would hit them in the chest or frontal area not the back of them.

If you read the transcripts you will see that tow different doctors called her neck wound a hesitation wound superficial and non life threatening
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby jane » Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:29 pm

http://darlielynnroutier.com/

This is the new website that was mentioned earlier on this thread.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby FantasticallyFlawed » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:31 pm

Any news on forensic testing??? I was so happy to join the advocate forum. After spending days reading through the discussion forum it seemed to me that the Darlie guilters were so defensive and not backing up their opinion with facts. I'm new to this site but have followed her case since seeing it on Unsolved Mysteries., and then other programs. I believe she was railroaded, and deserves a new trial or to be freed. I found an interesting article that sums up some of the mistakes and ethical issues of the trial ... http://hcnews.com/pages/justice_for_all ... sychopath/
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Grayhawker » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:44 am

The problem of the sock is how it relates to the timeline.

It is practically impossible for her to have attacked her kids, cleaned some of the crime scene, slashed herself (within mm's of taking her own life), ran out and deposited the sock.

All within mere minutes of the arrival of the first responder.

The other big red flag is having Bevel testify as a splatter expert for the prosecution. He has been thoroughly discredited.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby ljrobins » Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:21 pm

FantasticallyFlawed wrote:Any news on forensic testing??? I was so happy to join the advocate forum. After spending days reading through the discussion forum it seemed to me that the Darlie guilters were so defensive and not backing up their opinion with facts. I'm new to this site but have followed her case since seeing it on Unsolved Mysteries., and then other programs. I believe she was railroaded, and deserves a new trial or to be freed. I found an interesting article that sums up some of the mistakes and ethical issues of the trial ... http://hcnews.com/pages/justice_for_all ... sychopath/


Welcome FantasticallyFlawed (love your username). Thanks for posting the article. It's not one that I've seen before. It seems to be a common pattern (for the media and public especially) to refer to people as psychopaths even when they have not been diagnosed with such a personality disorder. Drives me crazy!

I think this is a very clear case of a wrongful conviction -- especially with the sock as Grayhawker suggests. It makes for an impossible timeline.
"I am not the only one. There are many other wrongfully convicted people and they need your support. They need a voice." - Ryan Ferguson
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby FantasticallyFlawed » Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:39 am

Thanks ljrobins! :wink: I agree, the sock thing couldn't have been more unrealistic. What baffles the mind too is the incredible crime scene photos and the how the letters were so carefully entered into evidence the last day of the trial during Darlie's testimony. The defense had no way to prepare her for cross examination of those letters. Just many of the aspects of this case that erks me :curse:
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby geebee2 » Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:21 am

A couple of things:

David Camm, who is supporting this case, is now on twitter : https://twitter.com/DavidRCamm

and another conviction in Texas, Hannah Overton, was overturned on 16th September.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Grayhawker » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:04 am

If I recall, she and her then husband are divorced. I believe by her actions.

There has been suggestions that he might have staged a "robbery" to make insurance claims and it went horribly wrong. I don't expect it to be used in court by her defense at this time, probably hard to prove beyond some weird circumstantial information.

For all the criticism Texas has taken for wrongful convictions and executions, they also seem to be taking the lead to institute some reforms. Proactive reforms.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby geebee2 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:45 am

This relates to the Michael Morton act, signed by Rick Perry in May 2013, which in turn has significance for Darlie Routier.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Leischa » Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:54 pm

I realize this part of the forum seems to have been pretty much inactive for the last couple of months but I'd like to get an opinion on something I've been thinking about for the last two days or so. I stumbled upon this case about three weeks ago and cannot stop reading about it. From the very beginning, I've had the feeling that Darin has been involved in this and that Darlie didn't realize it at the time. I'm not saying that there was no intruder in the house because I think it could've been the case, but there is something very strange about how Darin managed the situation when he got downstairs after he heard Darlie scream.

Darin was upstairs. He heard her scream Devon's name and, in the report he filed at the police station, Darin said he went straight to Devon. If you look at the house plan of the house, and also at the DNA blood map, you can see that Darin had to walk over (or right by) Damon in order to get to Devon, who was in the far corner of the room. Damon was right at the entrance of the Roman room (in the hallway I think) and, unless Darin just ran and jumped over the couch to get to Devon, he must have seen Damon first, right? Yet, he didn't mention it. Am I the only one who thinks this is weird?

I mean, you are awaken by your spouse yelling one of your son's name (or yours), you get downstairs and see one of your sons laying in the hallway, but since your spouse didn't yell the name of this child, you go straight to the other one and ignore this one? How does that make any sense?
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby TruthMatters » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:58 am

Leischa wrote:I realize this part of the forum seems to have been pretty much inactive for the last couple of months but I'd like to get an opinion on something I've been thinking about for the last two days or so. I stumbled upon this case about three weeks ago and cannot stop reading about it. From the very beginning, I've had the feeling that Darin has been involved in this and that Darlie didn't realize it at the time. I'm not saying that there was no intruder in the house because I think it could've been the case, but there is something very strange about how Darin managed the situation when he got downstairs after he heard Darlie scream.

Darin was upstairs. He heard her scream Devon's name and, in the report he filed at the police station, Darin said he went straight to Devon. If you look at the house plan of the house, and also at the DNA blood map, you can see that Darin had to walk over (or right by) Damon in order to get to Devon, who was in the far corner of the room. Damon was right at the entrance of the Roman room (in the hallway I think) and, unless Darin just ran and jumped over the couch to get to Devon, he must have seen Damon first, right? Yet, he didn't mention it. Am I the only one who thinks this is weird?

I mean, you are awaken by your spouse yelling one of your son's name (or yours), you get downstairs and see one of your sons laying in the hallway, but since your spouse didn't yell the name of this child, you go straight to the other one and ignore this one? How does that make any sense?



I have been researching this case and trying to dodge the Darla-haters so have not posted recently. I do agree with you that Darin's behavior was what I consider odd, but I do not know what type of person he is. Is he someone who hyper-focuses in an emergency? Does he see one thing and that is all he sees? Does he freak out and see everything yet nothing at the same time? Does he calmly take control of the situation, assess need, and administer to the neediest? I know that I literally walked right over a copperhead snake in my front yard because I was focused on my dog which was barking at the time to warn me that a snake was coiling up near my foot. Sometimes things are right in front of us and we do not even register them because of the way our minds work. I would hate to lay false blame on this family (they've had enough already imho) but I do agree that his reaction seems out of place. I will have to see if I can find some more interviews with him. There are plenty with Darla but not many with him? Or am I just looking in the wrong place?
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Leischa » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:30 am

TruthMatters, I'm glad to see that you're still interested in this case. I remember seeing your name around on the forum while reading what others thought about this case.

I agree with you that we don't know what type of person he is so it's hard to judge how he reacted to the situation. I've never been involved in such an event so I don't know how I would react. I'd probably start to hyperventilate and pass out. :observing:

I've tried looking for interviews or videos of Darin (or any other type of information about the man) online but, just like you, I didn't find much. All I could find was bits of interviews that were fitted into documentaries about Darlie's story.

I don't know whether Darin is guilty or not. I didn't find any proof, it's just that, the more I read about this case, the more I realize that there are a lot of things that Darlie was blamed for that seem to be applying to him more than her. For example, a lot of people say that all she wanted was to live big, look good, buy expensive stuff, etc. Sure, she did live in a way that many women cannot afford. But who paid for it? It was him. Don't tell me that she's been holding a gun to his head all these years to have him buy her all the jewelry, the nice furniture, to get a boob job, etc.

I read somewhere from people who believe in her guilt that the reason why she didn't stab herself in the chest was because she didn't want to damage her boobs. At first I just laughed about it but, after reading that Darin *supposably* told the police officer at the hospital that she had great/huge boobs (something of that kind), I think that, if we suppose he's the attacker, that he wouldn't have stabbed her there. He seemed to be very proud of his wife's looks. Also, isn't he the one who first hinted that she had probably been stalked and raped because she was very attractive..?

There is also the way he changes his stories... But this cannot really be established because a lot of people seem to have lied during trial so it's hard to know the truth from the lies.

Also, I heard him say in a video that it would be easier on him if she was indeed guilty of the murders of her sons. Why? Because he could move on and remarry. Seriously? Who would say such a thing?

This is all speculation on my part, but I've started to think that maybe Darin, as the closest person to Darlie before and while she was held in custody before her trial (I would assume), helped her ''remember'' how things happened, who the possible intruders could be. Let's say he's the one who did it. His best interest would be to help her remember things that fit the intruder story. He was a very supportive husband. He didn't want her to start doubting about him. During the trial, they read letters that she'd written to friends and family, saying that she knew who did it (Glenn Mize and Gary Austin), and she hinted that it was Darin and her mother who'd told her about those leads. Yet, she was blamed publicly for lying ?!

The one fact that makes me very suspicious about him is that he hired Mulder on the condition that he would not use anything that could make him a suspect in the case, after learning that the appointed defense team had found clues leading to him. I suspect this is why the defense couldn't do much to save her. Did she know about that? In a way, I could understand how an innocent man wouldn't want to end up in death row but still... If they'd used what the first defense team had found, perhaps she wouldn't have been convicted.

There are also all sorts of strange things that I found... For example, he went over to their old house and checked on the windows to see if the screens had been cut. Why? This is just weird, but I don't see how it could prove his guilt either.

The fact that, according to Darlie, he had his pants on when he rushed downstairs. Who would take the time to put their pants on while their spouse is yelling hysterically downstairs?

I've been trying to think of how he could've done it without Darlie noticing that it was him and, for now, all I can think of is that he ran into the utility room and he either

1- Got outside through the garage, then came back inside through the front door (remember, Darlie said that she found it unlocked while it should've been locked), ran back upstairs and then back down the stairs in time for when she started screaming for him.

or

2- He dropped the knife and baseball cap at the entrance of the utility room and, while she was turning back to turn the lights on (I'd have to know where the light switch that she used was, all I know is that she said she turned around to go turn on the lights), he ran out of the utility room, and went straight upstairs. There was a wall between the dining room area and the other side of the house so, if he did it real quick while she was panicking and probably not listening to the sounds around her closely, perhaps he could've made it.

What do you think?
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby jane » Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:57 am

Sinsaint wrote:
Bruce Fischer wrote:I was really hoping to see more activity in this group. Several came forward stating that they would contribute when we voted to make this a featured case. We need Darlie's supporters here to come together so we can make progress.


Sorry Bruce. I had some personal issues come up that required my full attention. For the most part, those issues have been resolved. Please let me know what is needed and I will get to work.


Has there been any followup with Sinsaint?
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Discussion

Postby Grayhawker » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:24 am

Maybe the two threads should be merged? Which is the "official" thread?
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Grayhawker » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:30 am

Leischa wrote: "Also, I heard him say in a video that it would be easier on him if she was indeed guilty of the murders of her sons. Why? Because he could move on and remarry. Seriously? Who would say such a thing? "

I believe that he got his wish. She divorced him!

Some speculate that he hired someone to break into the home and take things so he could double dip - sell them plus claim insurance loss but the "thief" took it way to far.

Don't know about who the murder was or if Darin was involved, but there is no way Darlie was involved.

No one could have wounded themselves to the degree she was and in the manner she was. It was intended to kill and would have except for missing her veins by fractions of an inch.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby Sinsaint » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:48 am

jane wrote:
Sinsaint wrote:
Bruce Fischer wrote:I was really hoping to see more activity in this group. Several came forward stating that they would contribute when we voted to make this a featured case. We need Darlie's supporters here to come together so we can make progress.


Sorry Bruce. I had some personal issues come up that required my full attention. For the most part, those issues have been resolved. Please let me know what is needed and I will get to work.


Has there been any followup with Sinsaint?


I'm back now.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Discussion

Postby jane » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:05 am

I have been trying to find information about the results of the new testing that was ordered last year. Evidently, the results are not yet available.

https://youcouldbewrong.wordpress.com/2 ... tier-case/

The case moved through Texas state courts and is now in the U.S. District Court in San Antonio. Routier’s lawyers, in a 58-page motion, have raised several issues challenging the state’s theory on the case including, the handling of evidence and inadequate assistance of defense counsel at the trial level. The appellate lawyers argue that her defense attorneys did not effectively challenge the prosecution’s motive that Routier murdered her sons for financial reasons and then tried to make it look like an intruder committed the crime.

The federal review has been on hold for 6 years, so that DNA tests can be done. Some tests have been completed and Routier’s defense believes it supports Routier’s claims of innocence. Other tests remain including a bloody fingerprint, a bloody sock found outside the home, and Routier’s nightgown. The judge ordered that the remaining DNA testing begin by June 30th of this year (2014) and that he receive status reports every 180 days after that date.

**********
July 2014
Late last month, Texas Assistant Attorney General Tomee Heining filed a status report in the Routier case saying that the DNA testing has not been completed. He recommended that the U.S. Federal District Court in West Texas continue to maintain its stay until state proceedings have been concluded. According to reports, once state-level testing is complete, testing ordered by federal courts will begin. A conference was held on May 2nd, during which the University of North Texas Science Center, said it could not perform the DNA testing in the Routier case because it does not perform quantification analysis, which is requested in the case.

Routier has always maintained her innocence and says that a man entered her Texas home on June 6, 1996 where Routier and two of her children were sleeping downstairs. They were attacked, including Routier. Devon, 6, and Damon, 5, were killed. Prosecutors contend that Routier inflicted the wounds upon herself and killed the two boys. Routier’s husband and other son were sleeping upstairs and were not injured.

Routier was convicted of killing her 5-year-old son Damon, but was not charged in the murder of Devon. Routier was sentenced to death and is currently on death row in Texas.

Routier has been awaiting DNA testing on the evidence in her case for 6 years. In 2008, Routier was granted the right to DNA testing.

Judge Fred Biery granted a request for improved testing on a bloody fingerprint, a bloody sock, and Routier’s nightgown.


***********
This site has links to the Herzog videos about the case.
******************
Here's an interesting comment by Patrick King:

Yes. (Tommy Lynn) Sells was in Mount Olive Correctional facility in West Virginia on June 6, 1996 for the knife assault on Fabienne Witherspoon. However Jonathan Scott Graham was in Texas at the time and he was not arrested until 2004. Look him up in your Serial Killers A-Z… or just google him.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Discussion

Postby Clive Wismayer » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:42 pm

Thanks Jane.

I follow the goings on in this case on Facebook and my understanding of the reason for the delay in testing is that it's financial. Money is required and I assume that's because Texas is not paying for the tests.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Discussion

Postby jane » Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:29 am

Clive Wismayer wrote:Thanks Jane.

I follow the goings on in this case on Facebook and my understanding of the reason for the delay in testing is that it's financial. Money is required and I assume that's because Texas is not paying for the tests.


Thanks for that information, Clive. This appears to be the facebook page with the latest on the case. Perhaps there are people here who would like to contribute. I plan to.

https://www.facebook.com/FIGHTforDarlieRoutier
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Discussion

Postby Clive Wismayer » Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:59 am

jane wrote:
Clive Wismayer wrote:Thanks Jane.

I follow the goings on in this case on Facebook and my understanding of the reason for the delay in testing is that it's financial. Money is required and I assume that's because Texas is not paying for the tests.


Thanks for that information, Clive. This appears to be the facebook page with the latest on the case. Perhaps there are people here who would like to contribute. I plan to.

https://www.facebook.com/FIGHTforDarlieRoutier

I am not sure there isn't more than one page. In fact, just checking FB now I appear to be in four FB groups concerning this case. I guess a group is not the same thing as a page though, is it? I am not terribly au fait with FB TBH.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Discussion

Postby jane » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:06 am

Clive Wismayer wrote:
jane wrote:
Clive Wismayer wrote:Thanks Jane.

I follow the goings on in this case on Facebook and my understanding of the reason for the delay in testing is that it's financial. Money is required and I assume that's because Texas is not paying for the tests.


Thanks for that information, Clive. This appears to be the facebook page with the latest on the case. Perhaps there are people here who would like to contribute. I plan to.

https://www.facebook.com/FIGHTforDarlieRoutier

I am not sure there isn't more than one page. In fact, just checking FB now I appear to be in four FB groups concerning this case. I guess a group is not the same thing as a page though, is it? I am not terribly au fait with FB TBH.


We need some input from long time supporters and family members who have posted here previously.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Discussion

Postby Clive Wismayer » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:27 am

Nice to be on the same side on this one, Jane :)
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Discussion

Postby jane » Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:20 am

Clive Wismayer wrote:Nice to be on the same side on this one, Jane :)


Yes, it is. :shocked:
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Discussion

Postby jane » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:26 pm

jane wrote:
Clive Wismayer wrote:Thanks Jane.

I follow the goings on in this case on Facebook and my understanding of the reason for the delay in testing is that it's financial. Money is required and I assume that's because Texas is not paying for the tests.


Thanks for that information, Clive. This appears to be the facebook page with the latest on the case. Perhaps there are people here who would like to contribute. I plan to.

https://www.facebook.com/FIGHTforDarlieRoutier


You can access the video for the recent episode of CNN Death Row stories from this link.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Discussion

Postby LarryK » Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:37 am

Here is a new petition. Please sign it even if you have signed other petitions for Darlie before.

https://www.change.org/p/dallas-da-susa ... utier-case
The brain is not configured in a way that makes obedience through logical, language-based propositions possible during distress and suffering. -- James Wilder, "Neurotheology and the Life Model"
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Forum

Postby SundanceIM » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:36 pm

TruthMatters wrote:To anyone with direct evidence knowledge....Could the 'splatter' on Darli's nightgown be from attempting to help her son who was still breathing at the time or possibly from some type of chest compression she performed on the other son? Anyone who has ever worked as a first responder or in emergency medicine has had to deal with both the mist and the splatter-type spray that comes from specific wounds when you are performing CPR. Someone who was frantically performing incorrect CPR could really cause serious spray. Just curious and thanks in advance for your responses!

Also, I had posted on the other board before I read all the drama, I do not recall ANY mention of a SINGLE hesitation mark on ANY of Darlie's wounds. When someone self-inflicts knife wounds, even when they are intentionally committing suicide, there are still hesitation marks so if Darlie had none, how can anyone believe she caused these violent, vicious, painful injuries to herself?!


Hello TruthMatters. At trial, Darin testified that while he was trying to help Devon, the oldest child, and blew into his mouth, the blood sprayed out of the wounds in his chest. He testified that he and then later Darlie, tried to hold the edges of the wounds together while he was trying to breathe for him, with the same result - the blood sprayed out of the massive chest wounds on little Devon. This would cause the tiny spots of Devon's blood to be deposited on Darlie's nightshirt.

Darin was not wearing a shirt, and later at the Neal's house across the street, washed the blood off his face, hands, arms, chest and back before Karen Neal's husband drove him to the hospital where they had taken Darlie. So Darin had no shirt to test.
No matter where you go, there you are.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Discussion

Postby SundanceIM » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:43 pm

jane wrote:I have been trying to find information about the results of the new testing that was ordered last year. Evidently, the results are not yet available.

https://youcouldbewrong.wordpress.com/2 ... tier-case/



Hi Jane. Here are the results of the latest DNA testing that are dated 6/17/2015. I have attached them.

Sundance
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Discussion

Postby jane » Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:46 pm

SundanceIM wrote:
jane wrote:I have been trying to find information about the results of the new testing that was ordered last year. Evidently, the results are not yet available.

https://youcouldbewrong.wordpress.com/2 ... tier-case/



Hi Jane. Here are the results of the latest DNA testing that are dated 6/17/2015. I have attached them.

Sundance


Thank you for the results, Sundance. I hope others on this board will read and study them.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Discussion

Postby jane » Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:23 pm

This is one of many cases where DNA results do not provide exonerating evidence. Criminals who deliberately commit crimes often make sure that they do not leave DNA evidence behind.
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Discussion

Postby jane » Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:08 am

Have you seen this episode from CNN's Death Row Stories?

Here's a new link:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x31glb ... 02e01_news

41 minutes
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Discussion

Postby kez389 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:41 am

I would really like to know why Darin Routier was not arrested for the crime. He wasn't even investigated for the crime. I think the police let Darin go to ensure a conviction on Darlie. I think they aren't going after Darin because they are scared of not getting their execution with Darlie. That is pretty sad for sure. She needs a new trial and a new jury needs to hear the evidence against Darin
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Re: Darlie Routier Advocate Discussion

Postby Sinsaint » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:54 pm

kez389 wrote:I would really like to know why Darin Routier was not arrested for the crime. He wasn't even investigated for the crime. I think the police let Darin go to ensure a conviction on Darlie. I think they aren't going after Darin because they are scared of not getting their execution with Darlie. That is pretty sad for sure. She needs a new trial and a new jury needs to hear the evidence against Darin


There's nothing about this crime that points to Darin.
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