Debra Milke Case Discussion

Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby pmop57 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:50 pm

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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:34 am

"Debra is since twenty years innocent on Death Row in Arizona. This page deals especially with her case to show what Justice will do to you if the Police faked evidence and that it is time to stopp this cruel punishment all over the world."
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:09 am

I post her the entire article from Facebook by "Free Debra Jean Milke"

Debra Milke was senteced to death for murder of her child only based on the only statement of police officer Saldate following her interrogation without taping, without attorny present, without any other person present then Saldate. His statements were always contested by Debra. There was no other fact implying Debra to the shooting of her son. NO CHANCE. And you must imagine, more then two decades on death row.

I think that again in this case there all ingredients showing how easy it is to sentence an innocent person. This again could happen to verybody.


Quote :

Why would Saldate arrest Debra and fabricate his story against her ?.


par Free Debra Jean Milke, mercredi 2 mai 2012, 11:43

For those visitors to our website and citizens of the general population who have doubts about the misconduct of the Phoenix Police authorities and the prosecution in this case, we would like to explain in greater detail the actual conduct and motives of former Phoenix Police Detective Armando Saldate, and how the police authorities have hindered proper investigation of this crime, the murder of 4-year-old CHRISTOPHER CONAN MILKE.

We begin by looking at the actual events and the time-frame of things. On December 3rd, 1989 at approximately 3.35 p.m. Phoenix citizen ROGER SCOTT confessed that he knew CHRISTOPHER CONAN MILKE, a 4-year-old boy who had disappeared the day before, had in fact been murdered. SCOTT started by laying the primary blame for CHRIS' death on JIM STYERS : "JIM killed him." (STYERS was a long-time friend of SCOTT and the roommate of Debra Milke, CHRIS' mother. JIM STYERS and Debra - who were never romantically involved - shared expenses, and STYERS watched CHRIS and his own 2-year-old daughter WENDY while Debra was at work and sometimes in the evening when she went out with friends). This confession by SCOTT was told to Detective Armando Saldate. Up to that point, SCOTT had denied any knowledge of what had happened to CHRISTOPHER. He had broken down when the detective threatened to search the house of ROGER SCOTT'S elderly and frail mother, which ROGER feared would kill her.

One central part of SCOTT'S statement was true : CHRISTOPHER MILKE had been shot dead by three bullets to the head. This was confirmed when CHRISTOPHER'S body was found in a desert wash north of Phoenix. Yet, as we will see, the rest of SCOTT'S story kept changing as he sought to distance himself from the murder of CHRIS. SCOTT'S changes in his story included the belated claim that Debra Milke had been involved in her son's death. That happened at least sixty, if not ninety minutes after his initial admittance to knowledge about the crime. And instead of closely examining ROGERS SCOTT'S story and questioning him about its many inconsistencies, SALDATE uncritically accepted the shifting story SCOTT told him. The detective and the rest of the authorities then set out to 'prove' the solution of the case that SCOTT had given them, even if real facts had to be ignored or hidden and confirming "evidence had to be manufactured." This confession of SCOTT served as a perfect tool for the homicide veteran, who had served 21 years with the Phoenix Police Department. Because CHRISTOPHER was later found in a desert area north of Phoenix, this essential part of SCOTT's statement was proven to be true.

Was SCOTT to be believed ? CHRISTOPHER MILKE had been shot, as SCOTT had said, but the rest of SCOTT'S statements were self-serving. As we can see in the report of SALDATE about the interrogation, ROGER SCOTT tried to talk himself out of the guilt, putting the blame for the murder on JIM STYERS. And even before ROGER SCOTT confessed, police knew (according to the report of DET. R. JONES #3025, Suppl. DR# 89-179406) that ROGER was not necessarily a person who could be believed : "I asked ROGER to explain the problem he had on his arrest in Glendale several years ago. ROGER indicated that was a long time ago and at that time he had a drinking problem and really wasn't sure what he had done at the time." Furthermore, as we also learn listening to ROGER SCOTT'S taped-recorded interview with DET. BOB MILLS in the evening of December 3, ROGER'S statements were anything but coherent and logical in incriminating the other two individuals, JIM STYERS and Debra Milke. And instead of closely questioning SCOTT about his inconsistent statements, DET. MILLS tried to feed him facts and ask leading questions to help SCOTT put his story together. Yet SCOTT remained completely unable to tell a remotely logical or coherent version about the alleged participation of Debra.

SCOTT'S story was that he was solely the driver, only taking a minor part in the crime. But SALDATE'S report about this 'confession' reveals a lot more : it tells us that ROGER continued to state where the body could be found, that JIM STYERS never liked the kid (SCOTT was actually the only individual who alleged this) and that he and JIM had been together on several other occasions, trying to kill CHRIS. This self-serving story sounded as if the murder was pre-planned. After that SCOTT talked about the purported preparation of the crime, and how he tried to talk STYERS out of that idea. He next described the events of that particular day (Saturday 2nd, 1989), how he, STYERS, and CHRISTOPHER ran various errands and ate pizza for lunch. SCOTT did not mention the boy's mother, Debra Milke, as a part of the crime during all this time in his original confession. ROGER next explained how he - allegedly solely hired as the driver - behaved at the murder-scene, what he had seen and heard and that JIM STYERS had given him the gun after the boy was killed, telling him to get rid of it, "but that JIM also told him that he could keep it if he wanted it." Hardly a logical statement involving two other participants in a conspiracy to commit murder.

After all these statements - according to Det. SALDATE'S own report - Detective SALDATE, DET. BOB MILLS and SCOTT entered a police car at 620 W. Washington and drove to the murder-scene. Only during this drive SCOTT suddenly and voluntarily stated : "The baby's mother knew all about the killing and in fact the only reason that CHRIS was killed was because the mother wanted it done." This statement, made by SCOTT as he became increasingly anxious about the consequences of his admitted role in the murder, must have been made sixty to ninety minutes after SCOTT'S initial confession - therefore the time was approximately 4.45 p.m. SALDATE next contacted the police headquarters and told his supervisor about SCOTT'S new statement ["We then noticed that we needed gas and decided to stop at Cactus Park Briefing Station to get gas. At this time I called SGT. ONTIVEROS and informed him about the mother's involvement and he told me that she was now in Florence."]. At that time, either the supervisor ordered the arrest of Debra Milke and JIM STYERS, or SALDATE decided to arrest the two on his own [the detective later made contradictory statements about this point in an interview with Debra's defense attorney and under oath in court.] The homicide veteran actually made no efforts to investigate or examine the incriminating allegations ROGER SCOTT made pertaining to JIM STYERS and Debra at all. When STYERS, MILLS and SCOTT returned back from the murder-scene and the Metro Center mall to the police main station, it must have been approximately 6.15 p.m. The story later claimed by the police authorities and the prosecution was that STYERS refused to talk to the detectives, but that Debra later made a confession during an interview in Florence.

The truth, indeed, was different. The decision to arrest STYERS and Debra must have been made sometime around 4.45 p.m. [shortly before the dead body of CHRISTOPHER was found], because according to the pertinent police records, DET. HAMRICK and DET. DiMODICA left for Florence at 4.50 p.m.. The reason why the detectives were ordered there was "to learn her [Debra's] exact location to (sic) that DET. SALDATE could interview her." At least that's what HAMRICK'S report states. The proximity from the police main station to STYERS' apartment is roughly a 20, 25 minute drive. The report of DET. T.D. CAREY reads : "On 12-3-89 at 1717 hrs. suspect STYERS was arrested at 7734 N. 12 Street." This report doesn't reveal any more information. There were certainly some questions and explanations before the detectives - along with STYERS - arrived back at 620 W. Washington [the police main station], and therefore STYERS arrived probably shortly prior to 6.00 p.m. that day [KAREN STYERS, JIM'S legal wife who had accompanied him, was interviewed at 6.00 p.m.]. Thirty five minutes later the interview with DET. R. MILLS commenced, but STYERS insisted on an attorney, stating he wouldn't say anything more. SALDATE had no facts or evidence against JIM STYERS and Debra Milke, other than SCOTT'S rambling, disjoined accusations and the dead body of CHRISTOPHER MILKE.

Around the same time, at 6.35 p.m. according to the records, the detectives HAMRICK, DiMODICA and LT. YOST arrived in Florence, confirming that Debra had just arrived at the Pinal County Sheriff's Office, together with her acquaintance JANET FROEBE. Pinal County DEPUTY SOULES, who was ordered to ask Debra to come down to the local jail facility, confirmed in his report and at trial, that he had no order to arrest Debra and that he left it up to her whether she would ride with him, or prefer to take a ride with someone else. Also, according to various pertinent trial records, neither HAMRICK nor DiMODICA or YOST talked with the case leading agent SALDATE upon his arrival, yet both 'somehow knew' that Debra was going to be arrested before SALDATE ever met her [see interviews with JANET FROEBE and MAUREEN SADEIK]. None of the Phoenix detectives spoke with either one of the women, Debra or JANET FROEBE, before SALDATE started his interview. Only SOULES offered them to stay in the jail dispensary to wait for the arrival of SALDATE from Phoenix.

Other than SCOTT'S incoherent and self-serving confession to his participation, the only evidence against STYERS was the false missing person report he had made and there was no evidence at all against Debra Milke. There was no basis on which to believe Debra had any role in CHRISTOPHER'S death - much less any foundation to indict and prosecute her. SALDATE'S ruthless efforts to 'solve' the case resulted in a helicopter ride to Florence, to 'interview' the boy's mother, 25-year-old Debra Milke. At trial SALDATE claimed using a helicopter was solely a means of transportation, yet as we question that it becomes apparent how urgent it must have been for SALDATE to get to Florence and take things into his own hands. Upon arriving at the jail dispensary he sent Debra Milke's accompanying acquaintance JANET out of the room, shut the door and commenced the interrogation. After a 35 minute interview he emerged from the room. DET. HAMRICK, who had just returned from the property of Debra's family, met SALDATE in the jail facility, but no mention of a 'voluntarily confession' which the young woman had allegedly made to the homicide veteran. Only three days later, on December 6th, 1989 Phoenix police presented a report about that interrogation, claiming Debra Milke had confessed to a conspiracy to commit murder. This 'alleged confession' was later on reproduced over and over in the media and served to convince Debra's own family members of her role in the crime.

Another point of importance should be noted here. Not only does the timeline prove that two cars left the police main station in Phoenix in order to arrest both individuals, JIM STYERS and Debra Milke. It additionally raises the question why SALDATE didn't order the arrest of JIM STYERS after SCOTT'S first statement, still at the police main station. Why - only after SCOTT had elongated his accusation and included the young mother - did SALDATE either order the arrest of both individuals or suggested that to his superior ? This coherency depicts that the involvement of a young woman in the entire situation - most likely grief-stricken upon hearing the news about the death of her son and inexperienced in her relations with the authorities - would be easy to intimidate and taken by surprise. And indeed, as the cross-examination at trial had shown SALDATE'S first words to Debra after JANET had exited the dispensary room were "We found your son, he was murdered, and you are under arrest." How much more can a 25-year-old mother in that situation be brutally surprised than this ? And in fact, as we look at other cases where SALDATE'S demeanor was criticized and harshly reprimanded, it becomes clear that he had a pattern of ruthlessly taking advantage of people who were injured, traumatized, unconscious or deeply scared or intimidated.

With all of the preceding information, it is proven that the arrest of JIM STYERS and Debra Milke was pre-planned and solely based on ROGER SCOTT'S rambling and unbelievable statements. Therefore SALDATE had indeed a motivation to fabricate a confession in order to justify the arrest and indictment of Debra. His unlawful actions are self-explanatory and close at hand. The 'alleged "confession"', as produced by SALDATE, was his only way to tie both, STYERS and Milke to this crime, the only way to 'sandwich' STYERS between SCOTT'S incoherent incrimination and an 'invented "confession"' of Debra to a conspiracy. No other proof of any participation of these two individuals in this crime ever materialized. No proof against Debra ever emerged at all; the only true evidence against STYERS was his admission in his letters to Debra that he had been at the murder-scene, along with his false report to police (which he claimed was out of fear). Just the opposite : the records reveal a lot about proven lies and falsehoods that had been spread by SALDATE, and which were instrumental in achieving an indictment greatly influencing the reports of the crime in the media. Character assassination, BIG TIME, but no hard facts at all. For more than twelve years, both - JIM STYERS and Debra Milke - have always maintained their innocence. This website has shown how the case against Debra Milke was nonexistent - a complete fabrication propped up with ruthless tactics and character assassination that has left her rotting unjustly on death row since 1991. The case against STYERS is also weaker than reported, though it is not the goal of this website to explore fully the question of STYERS' guilt or innocence.

By the way, for those who still don't believe in the innocence of Debra Milke we'd like to recommend more crucial documents that are available on this website :
â– 
Interview of ROBERT JOHNSON
(in this interview JOHNSON, a co-inmate to ROGER SCOTT, confirmed that SCOTT had confessed the killing of 4-year-old CHRISTOPHER MILKE)
â– 
Telephone interview with JEAN PUGH
(PUGH, a local resident had obtained information that the police authorities were indeed aware of SCOTT'S self-serving incrimination of STYERS and Milke. She also testified to hearing five to seven gun shots, in the morning of December 2, 1989, which contradicts the prosecutions theory of the case. Her attempt to tell police about what she heard was rudely rejected by the case agent because it conflicted with their neat "solution" to the murder and the accompanied "conspiracy theory")
â– 
"Justice in Arizona"
A case synopsis which proves that SALDATE'S decision to arrest Debra Milke was solely based on ROGER SCOTT'S self-serving incrimination and preconceived before the cop had ever laid eyes on her

Source: http://www.debbiemilke.com
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:22 am

I wonder why there is no interest in this case. This women is innocent and if her last appeal is rejected she will be executed for a crime she BARD did not commit.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Bruce Fischer » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:43 am

I will read this tonight. I will add the links to IA.org as well. The sad reality is that there are just too many cases to keep track of them all.
"This could happen to any one of you. If you don't believe it could happen, you are either misinformed or in a state of deep denial" -- Debra Milke
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Norm51 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:37 pm

Thanks Bruce - this one has some real urgency to it. Unbelievable.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:29 am

Norm51 wrote:Thanks Bruce - this one has some real urgency to it. Unbelievable.


If we want to do something we have to do it quickly. This is a case similar to the case of Kristin with even agravated consequences for the defendant. I already signed the petition in favour of Debbie Milke. Its after all about the LIFE of an INNOCENT women on death row since more then two decades. Actually her last possible appeal is running. This should be an opportunity for Injustice Anywhere.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby roteoctober » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:49 pm

I have signed the petition too, but I've seen few signatures...and I don't know what can be done next, especially from abroad...
I hope we can obtain or promote some attention on this case.
Personally I'm against death penalty out of principle, but I know this is not always a good "calling card" in the US.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:17 pm

roteoctober wrote:I have signed the petition too, but I've seen few signatures...and I don't know what can be done next, especially from abroad...
I hope we can obtain or promote some attention on this case.
Personally I'm against death penalty out of principle, but I know this is not always a good "calling card" in the US.


After having read dozens of articles in this case (Germany, France, Swiss, Belgium and US) I am absolutely convinced that this women is INNOCENT. But as you say I also noticed that there seems to be no real interest, and no effective support in place in the US to support Debbie Milke.

I still hope that there will be more interest in this case from our US friends. But until no there way not very much reaction.

Concerning the death penalty I am 100% with your whatever the opinion of somebody else may be.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby LarryK » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:11 am

Where is the petition? If it's accessed through her website, it's not obvious how to navigate to it.
The brain is not configured in a way that makes obedience through logical, language-based propositions possible during distress and suffering. -- James Wilder, "Neurotheology and the Life Model"
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:53 am

LarryK wrote:Where is the petition? If it's accessed through her website, it's not obvious how to navigate to it.



Here is the access to the petition, I hope it works (I entered: Petition Deborah Milke)

www.change.org/petitions/governor-of-ar ... government

Text:

Debra Jean Milke was sentenced to death January 18, 1991 for a crime she did not commit, victim of police negligence and corruption. She was not only wrongly accused but stereotyped due to her economical situation and circumstances as a single mother. The only "evidence" the detective had of her guilt was his claim that she confessed three days later after interrogation. However, there was no recording of this confession, NOR was there a Miranda waiver signed. There was no proof because Debra did NOT confess. Debra did NOT sign a waiver, she didn't know her rights. She did not have a fair trial. The case was inflated with fantasies confected by the detective and was stuffed with accusations, but not any solid proof. Whatever holes were left in the case, the media filled up with lies. And since then she has spent 20 years waiting to be escorted to the execution chamber.

We are asking the state of Arizona clemency for Debra Milke. Her guilt is not proven beyond reasonable doubt. We must ask the governor of Arizona to bring justice to the forgotten where it went wrong.

Let's write together a million letters to the Governor of Arizona by January 9th, 2012.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:24 am

I am still hoping for more interest into case. I am sure that in this case IA could also make the difference.

At least there should be an appeal to sign the petition in favour of Deborah Milke.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby LarryK » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:00 am

I've signed it.
The brain is not configured in a way that makes obedience through logical, language-based propositions possible during distress and suffering. -- James Wilder, "Neurotheology and the Life Model"
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:56 am

LarryK wrote:I've signed it.


Great! Do you have an idea how to get more people interested in this case.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:00 am

An other link concerning this case from Justice:Denied -- The Magazine for the Wrongly Convicted

http://justicedenied.org/debramilke.htm
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Dougm » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:41 pm

This is an interesting video that provides a brief summary of this case. Seems like a travesty to me.

[youtube]Xn4_zUMtL5o[/youtube]
When you berate someone and push them and confuse them and lie to them and convince them that they're wrong you're not finding the truth.

Amanda Knox
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Norm51 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:24 am

I was unable to open the above menioned video - or even see it. My computer seems to be blocking it - interesting.

Is it this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7NT8Nj34e0


[youtube]r7NT8Nj34e0[/youtube]
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Hans » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:55 am

Norm51 wrote:I was unable to open the above menioned video - or even see it. My computer seems to be blocking it - interesting.

Is it this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7NT8Nj34e0
Youtube URL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn4_zUMtL5o
He [Raffaele] is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque caricature that is “Foxy Knoxy”
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:03 am

Norm51 wrote:I was unable to open the above menioned video - or even see it. My computer seems to be blocking it - interesting.

Is it this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7NT8Nj34e0


High
This is a different video. I have no problem to open both. The link posted by Dougm is from a french author having written a book in french language about this case (the video is in english).

For information: Another book was written by the german mother of Deborah. As far as I know it was only published in german laguage.

At the same time I would like to make a FURTHER APPEAL to get more interest in this case. This case is absolutely comparable to the Chamberlain and Lobato case.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Norm51 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:08 am

OK thanks - the video I linked to shows a clearly innocent woman or I haven't learned much in 60 years.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:11 am

Norm51 wrote:OK thanks - the video I linked to shows a clearly innocent woman or I haven't learned much in 60 years.


I would like Bruce or Sarah to get more attention to this case.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Hans » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:25 am

pmop57 wrote:
Norm51 wrote:I was unable to open the above menioned video - or even see it. My computer seems to be blocking it - interesting.

Is it this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7NT8Nj34e0


High
This is a different video. I have no problem to open both. The link posted by Dougm is from a french author having written a book in french language about this case (the video is in english).

For information: Another book was written by the german mother of Deborah. As far as I know it was only published in german laguage.

At the same time I would like to make a FURTHER APPEAL to get more interest in this case. This case is absolutely comparable to the Chamberlain and Lobato case.

Link to the german amazon page:
Renate Janka - Lasst meine Tochter endlich frei
I'll try to get a copy via my local bookstore tomorrow.
He [Raffaele] is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque caricature that is “Foxy Knoxy”
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:53 am

Hans wrote:
pmop57 wrote:
Norm51 wrote:I was unable to open the above menioned video - or even see it. My computer seems to be blocking it - interesting.

Is it this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7NT8Nj34e0


High
This is a different video. I have no problem to open both. The link posted by Dougm is from a french author having written a book in french language about this case (the video is in english).

For information: Another book was written by the german mother of Deborah. As far as I know it was only published in german laguage.

At the same time I would like to make a FURTHER APPEAL to get more interest in this case. This case is absolutely comparable to the Chamberlain and Lobato case.

Link to the german amazon page:
Renate Janka - Lasst meine Tochter endlich frei
I'll try to get a copy via my local bookstore tomorrow.


I'll try to get the french book by Jacques Secretan : Une mère innocente condamnée a mort aux Etats-Unis.
(An innocent mother sentenced to death in the US)

There was also a film made about this case presented at the festival for human rights in Genève.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Hans » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:08 pm

This one was in the german "report München" on April 24th 2012:
[youtube]DCCGUSu--7U[/youtube]
He [Raffaele] is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque caricature that is “Foxy Knoxy”
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Norm51 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:23 pm

Thanks for that. My IE8 has links to tracking blocking software and that software which I downloaded had blocked the site above. I installed Chrome and up at came. I had some issues with IE8 in other links to Kirstin's case as well though not tracking issues.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:10 pm

The last appel is running and the result of the outcome may come every day. Will Debbie Milke be the next innocent executed in the US ?
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby roteoctober » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:26 pm

There is some possibility for a pardon by the Governor of Arizona, eventually?
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Sarah » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:45 pm

pmop57 wrote:
Norm51 wrote:OK thanks - the video I linked to shows a clearly innocent woman or I haven't learned much in 60 years.


I would like Bruce or Sarah to get more attention to this case.


Pmop57,

Thanks for bringing attention to this case. You are doing exactly the right thing by posting, building support and getting others interested in it. There are a lot of cases and it's necessary that members take interest and lead the way in different cases. I haven't looked at this case closely but will have time in the next few days to do so.

Thank you
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Hans » Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:05 pm

roteoctober wrote:There is some possibility for a pardon by the Governor of Arizona, eventually?
I don't know how the current Govenor of Arizona thinks about the death-penalty, Kent Cattani from the general prosecution (in the video above) blames the convicted for lengthening their stay in prison by appealing their death sentence, what a cynic... :sadno:
He [Raffaele] is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque caricature that is “Foxy Knoxy”
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby roteoctober » Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:14 pm

Even worse than cynic...of course if you have General Prosecutors of that kind, then you have wrongful convictions... :sadno:
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:14 am

roteoctober wrote:Even worse than cynic...of course if you have General Prosecutors of that kind, then you have wrongful convictions... :sadno:

In deed: ...... cynicism difficult to top ......
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Norm51 » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:02 am

Just learning about the case or again lack therof. So the whole thing hinges around one detective who says he took her privately to interview her - says he got her to confess behind closed doors without camera, tape, or witnesses or even co-erced signature and therefore she gets put to death by the people of Arizona?
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:40 am

Extract from a mothers appeal, from www.debbiemilke.com with many very familiar questions :
A MOTHER'S APPEAL
……..
I have studied all the legal details and I am SCARED.
MY PLEA TO EVERYONE WHO READS THIS
Read Debbie's web-site and ask yourselves the same questions :

Why could a police officer get away with his methods ?
Why did the family turn on her ?
Why did the court and the jury have such an easy task ?
Why was there no in-depth investigation ?
Why is it possible for the media to condemn an accused before the individual has been able to consult an attorney ?
Why did the defense not call any witnesses who were available to speak for Debbie ?
How is it possible for a state court to admit unsubstantiated evidence ?
Why is the word of an individual with no police record whatsoever held less credible than the word of a detective known for his numerous violations of individual's rights ?
Why would a judge - who by law is sworn to protect the rights of both plaintiff and defendant in an unbiased manner - bar access to the detective's professional records ?
My daughter's case, unfortunately, is not an isolated one. I can imagine that people who are not affected personally have a hard time relating to the suffering it causes. Most of us believe in our justice system, but when justice fails, you feel betrayed.
Please read Debbie's web-site in full. I would also urge any concerned citizen to make comments. I am also speaking for the many other possible "judicial victims" who have suffered as we have. It is a sad chapter in my life to experience.
My heart bleeds for what is happening here, and all I can do is to appeal to the common sense of the common people, the voters and backbone of this country, to preserve our inheritance of human rights and not let it be weakened by political power and ambitions. I do believe in justice according to our constitution, but not if certain individuals use it to their own personal advantage. It is particularly difficult to accept when the alleged killer to this day keeps claiming Debbie's innocence.
All I can say is : WAKE UP TO THE FACT THAT THIS IS NOT FICTION. IT CAN HAPPEN TO YOU, YOUR LOVED ONES, A FRIEND OR A NEIGHBOR.
I APPRECIATE ANYONE WHO JOINS ME IN PRAYER FOR MY DAUGHTER AND FOR THE POWERS IN OFFICE TO DECIDE OVER LIFE AND DEATH TO SEARCH THEIR SOUL.

I also want to thank each and everyone who have taken time to support Debbie's cause. I have learned through this experience how many wonderful people are out there in this world who care.

Sincerely,
Renate Janka
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:27 pm

Norm51 wrote:Just learning about the case or again lack therof. So the whole thing hinges around one detective who says he took her privately to interview her - says he got her to confess behind closed doors without camera, tape, or witnesses or even co-erced signature and therefore she gets put to death by the people of Arizona?


Yes, there was no other element against Debbie but her so called confession which she always contested.
She was sentenced to death because the court belevied one single cop (no other officer present, no taping, no statement signed, ...., nothing, ..., the judges refusing every witnessing in favour of her.
This is a case of blatant miscarriage of justice. All points to this single cop having pushed Debbie under the train to promote bis carreer and all the judges were willing to buy his story. This is really a very sad and cruel case story. I realy am disgusted of all this ignorance.

If this can be called justice everybody must be aware that he can be the next victim of injustice. Or lets simply abolish the whole judicial system and decide by throwing coins.

I would really like the petition for Debbie having more success. What can we do?
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby roteoctober » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:09 am

Unfortunately, out of my own personal experience (I petitioned and campaigned for Derek Rocco Barnabei back in 2000) there is little that foreigners can do to influence justice in a specific State of the US.
Probably not even US citizens from outside that State can do very much: the greatest power, especially on the Governor, comes from the citizens of the State involved.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:16 am

roteoctober wrote:Unfortunately, out of my own personal experience (I petitioned and campaigned for Derek Rocco Barnabei back in 2000) there is little that foreigners can do to influence justice in a specific State of the US.
Probably not even US citizens from outside that State can do very much: the greatest power, especially on the Governor, comes from the citizens of the State involved.

I agree with you and stay realist. I always knew that the weakness of the support to Debbie was due to most of her supporters being located outside the US, especially in Germany, her mother living in Berlin. And the actuel petition was also organised by an organisation outside the US and has merely no success, not even 400 signatures up to today.
My hope had been that some of our americain friends would get interest in this case which actually seems not to happen. Without that support this is in deed mission impossible.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Dougm » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:05 pm

pmop57 wrote:
roteoctober wrote:Unfortunately, out of my own personal experience (I petitioned and campaigned for Derek Rocco Barnabei back in 2000) there is little that foreigners can do to influence justice in a specific State of the US.
Probably not even US citizens from outside that State can do very much: the greatest power, especially on the Governor, comes from the citizens of the State involved.

I agree with you and stay realist. I always knew that the weakness of the support to Debbie was due to most of her supporters being located outside the US, especially in Germany, her mother living in Berlin. And the actuel petition was also organised by an organisation outside the US and has merely no success, not even 400 signatures up to today.
My hope had been that some of our americain friends would get interest in this case which actually seems not to happen. Without that support this is in deed mission impossible.


I live in the US, in a neighboring state, and I had never heard of this case until it was posted here. I suspect that the reason that there is not that much interest in the US in this case is that most people are not aware of it, and for the ones that are aware, many probably assume, as they did with Amanda Knox, that she must have been involved, or she would not have been convicted. People don't like to think that a cop would frame someone.

I agree this needs much more publicity -- I don't understand how they can convict someone of murder, and sentence them to death, with no evidence except for a so called "confession" that was not recorded, and not even written down and signed by the accused. If that is the case, anyone can make up anything against anybody, and get it to stick.
When you berate someone and push them and confuse them and lie to them and convince them that they're wrong you're not finding the truth.

Amanda Knox
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:40 pm

Dougm wrote:
pmop57 wrote:
roteoctober wrote:Unfortunately, out of my own personal experience (I petitioned and campaigned for Derek Rocco Barnabei back in 2000) there is little that foreigners can do to influence justice in a specific State of the US.
Probably not even US citizens from outside that State can do very much: the greatest power, especially on the Governor, comes from the citizens of the State involved.

I agree with you and stay realist. I always knew that the weakness of the support to Debbie was due to most of her supporters being located outside the US, especially in Germany, her mother living in Berlin. And the actuel petition was also organised by an organisation outside the US and has merely no success, not even 400 signatures up to today.
My hope had been that some of our americain friends would get interest in this case which actually seems not to happen. Without that support this is in deed mission impossible.


I live in the US, in a neighboring state, and I had never heard of this case until it was posted here. I suspect that the reason that there is not that much interest in the US in this case is that most people are not aware of it, and for the ones that are aware, many probably assume, as they did with Amanda Knox, that she must have been involved, or she would not have been convicted. People don't like to think that a cop would frame someone.

I agree this needs much more publicity -- I don't understand how they can convict someone of murder, and sentence them to death, with no evidence except for a so called "confession" that was not recorded, and not even written down and signed by the accused. If that is the case, anyone can make up anything against anybody, and get it to stick.


The case is very well documented, I have been viewing hundreds of pages of documents and informations, except the usual character assassination and conspiracy stories there is nothing but the so called confession only and only witnessed and reported by the police officer Armando Saldate.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Sarah » Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:30 am

This is a really outrageous case. We have seen to many cases of misconduct to think it is impossible that the officer lied. Although this is a blatant one, wow. IF he really got a confession though, as in the Amanda Knox case, where is the video tape, signed confession, anything. She said she didn't say it at all. In some ways it may have been better for her to say she only said it because of coercion. This way she is really challenging the officer with no wiggle room. Either way, it is her word against his. Nothing to use for a murder charge.

There is no other evidence at all?
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Sarah » Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:35 am

If we want to bring more attention to this case could we get some volunteers?

1. To write a case overview
example - http://www.injustice-anywhere.org/JasonP-Overview.html

2. To write a press release
example - post45645.html#p45645

3. To write articles about the case for publication - More would be better.
example - http://www.groundreport.com/Business/Mi ... -V/2946269

4. Is there an active support site? Could someone invite them to the forum?

5. Is there a place to write a letter directly to anyone? What about writing an IA Open letter?

6. We need someone to create a media contact list for the state and area of the case to send a PR to.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Jstanz » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:47 am

So Roger Scott is the true killer? Was he convicted? And he is now admitting that Debra is innocent?
All my grammar and spelling mistakes are the result of auto-correct. If auto-correct is not used here, I still blame it.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:53 am

Jstanz wrote:So Roger Scott is the true killer? Was he convicted? And he is now admitting that Debra is innocent?

Scott and Styers, with clear tendency to Scott but this was not correctly investigated as I understand.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:17 am

Sarah wrote:If we want to bring more attention to this case could we get some volunteers?

1. To write a case overview
example - http://www.injustice-anywhere.org/JasonP-Overview.html

2. To write a press release
example - post45645.html#p45645

3. To write articles about the case for publication - More would be better.
example - http://www.groundreport.com/Business/Mi ... -V/2946269

4. Is there an active support site? Could someone invite them to the forum?

5. Is there a place to write a letter directly to anyone? What about writing an IA Open letter?

6. We need someone to create a media contact list for the state and area of the case to send a PR to.


High Sarah,
I am ready to invest myself to help in this case. There is only the english language problem. My english capacities are for sure not so to be presentable to a larger public audiance. I hope you know what I mean. So were to start?
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Sarah » Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:49 pm

pmop57 wrote:High Sarah,
I am ready to invest myself to help in this case. There is only the english language problem. My english capacities are for sure not so to be presentable to a larger public audiance. I hope you know what I mean. So were to start?


:::thumbs up:::

Start by writing an article. Writing the facts as clear as possible. It could hopefully be used for the Case Overviw on IA also.

Example:
Philip Mause/erasmus44 wrote this article
http://www.groundreport.com/Business/Ki ... pp/2945840

And Bruce used the same basic article for the IA overview:
http://injustice-anywhere.org/KirstinLo ... rview.html

If you're able, get in contact with her support group, if there is one.

Don't worry about the English to much. You can post what you have here and IA members can help with any changes that are needed.

Sarah
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:10 pm

Sarah wrote:
pmop57 wrote:High Sarah,
I am ready to invest myself to help in this case. There is only the english language problem. My english capacities are for sure not so to be presentable to a larger public audiance. I hope you know what I mean. So were to start?


:::thumbs up:::

Start by writing an article. Writing the facts as clear as possible. It could hopefully be used for the Case Overviw on IA also.

Example:
Philip Mause/erasmus44 wrote this article
http://www.groundreport.com/Business/Ki ... pp/2945840

And Bruce used the same basic article for the IA overview:
http://injustice-anywhere.org/KirstinLo ... rview.html

If you're able, get in contact with her support group, if there is one.

Don't worry about the English to much. You can post what you have here and IA members can help with any changes that are needed.

Sarah


I'll start with it this weekend and try to get in contact or with the moderator of www.debbiemilke.com or with the mother of Debbie.

If asked who is the responsable contact person of IA?
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Sarah » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:16 pm

pmop57 wrote:I'll start with it this weekend and try to get in contact or with the moderator of http://www.debbiemilke.com or with the mother of Debbie.

If asked who is the responsable contact person of IA?


Thanks, just give them a link to this thread. Hopefully they will want to join the conversation.

The IA email is - injusticeanywhere@yahoo.com if they want it.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby roteoctober » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:33 pm

Next week I'll be on vacation with limited Internet access, so for a while I won't be able to be much helpful, but anyway I'll try to read the most concerning the case in order to be able to support pmop57 afterwards.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:49 pm

roteoctober wrote:Next week I'll be on vacation with limited Internet access, so for a while I won't be able to be much helpful, but anyway I'll try to read the most concerning the case in order to be able to support pmop57 afterwards.


Roteoctober
Thank you very much. Wish you good vacation.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby roteoctober » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:59 pm

Thanks. :winks:
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Dougm » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:01 pm

Sarah wrote:This is a really outrageous case. We have seen to many cases of misconduct to think it is impossible that the officer lied. Although this is a blatant one, wow. IF he really got a confession though, as in the Amanda Knox case, where is the video tape, signed confession, anything. She said she didn't say it at all. In some ways it may have been better for her to say she only said it because of coercion. This way she is really challenging the officer with no wiggle room. Either way, it is her word against his. Nothing to use for a murder charge.

There is no other evidence at all?


I thought that someone just saying you said something is not evidence, at least without some documentation of some sort. Must be my naivete.
When you berate someone and push them and confuse them and lie to them and convince them that they're wrong you're not finding the truth.

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Re: Debra Milke

Postby RimRider » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:15 am

More interesting details:

[youtube]LAgDMb-t8Ls[/youtube]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAgDMb-t8Ls
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Bruce Fischer » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:28 am

pmop57 wrote:
Sarah wrote:
pmop57 wrote:High Sarah,
I am ready to invest myself to help in this case. There is only the english language problem. My english capacities are for sure not so to be presentable to a larger public audiance. I hope you know what I mean. So were to start?


:::thumbs up:::

Start by writing an article. Writing the facts as clear as possible. It could hopefully be used for the Case Overviw on IA also.

Example:
Philip Mause/erasmus44 wrote this article
http://www.groundreport.com/Business/Ki ... pp/2945840

And Bruce used the same basic article for the IA overview:
http://injustice-anywhere.org/KirstinLo ... rview.html

If you're able, get in contact with her support group, if there is one.

Don't worry about the English to much. You can post what you have here and IA members can help with any changes that are needed.

Sarah


I'll start with it this weekend and try to get in contact or with the moderator of http://www.debbiemilke.com or with the mother of Debbie.

If asked who is the responsable contact person of IA?


pmop57,

Thank you for taking a strong interest in this case. As Sarah already mentioned, please do not worry about your writing. We will edit for you. The facts of the case need to be the main focus.

Injustice Anywhere will become a powerful force when we all stand up and take action for a cause that we all believe in. As more people get involved, we will be able to highlight more cases. The forum is a great place to discuss various cases to see if they are in need of our attention. This case is one that certainly does.
"This could happen to any one of you. If you don't believe it could happen, you are either misinformed or in a state of deep denial" -- Debra Milke
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:31 am

Bruce Fischer wrote:
pmop57 wrote:
Sarah wrote:
pmop57 wrote:High Sarah,
I am ready to invest myself to help in this case. There is only the english language problem. My english capacities are for sure not so to be presentable to a larger public audiance. I hope you know what I mean. So were to start?


:::thumbs up:::

Start by writing an article. Writing the facts as clear as possible. It could hopefully be used for the Case Overviw on IA also.

Example:
Philip Mause/erasmus44 wrote this article
http://www.groundreport.com/Business/Ki ... pp/2945840

And Bruce used the same basic article for the IA overview:
http://injustice-anywhere.org/KirstinLo ... rview.html

If you're able, get in contact with her support group, if there is one.

Don't worry about the English to much. You can post what you have here and IA members can help with any changes that are needed.

Sarah


I'll start with it this weekend and try to get in contact or with the moderator of http://www.debbiemilke.com or with the mother of Debbie.

If asked who is the responsable contact person of IA?


pmop57,

Thank you for taking a strong interest in this case. As Sarah already mentioned, please do not worry about your writing. We will edit for you. The facts of the case need to be the main focus.

Injustice Anywhere will become a powerful force when we all stand up and take action for a cause that we all believe in. As more people get involved, we will be able to highlight more cases. The forum is a great place to discuss various cases to see if they are in need of our attention. This case is one that certainly does.


High Bruce,
On the way! I try my best!
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Dougm » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:42 am

Sarah wrote:
pmop57 wrote:High Sarah,
I am ready to invest myself to help in this case. There is only the english language problem. My english capacities are for sure not so to be presentable to a larger public audiance. I hope you know what I mean. So were to start?


:::thumbs up:::

Start by writing an article. Writing the facts as clear as possible. It could hopefully be used for the Case Overviw on IA also.

Example:
Philip Mause/erasmus44 wrote this article
http://www.groundreport.com/Business/Ki ... pp/2945840

And Bruce used the same basic article for the IA overview:
http://injustice-anywhere.org/KirstinLo ... rview.html

If you're able, get in contact with her support group, if there is one.

Don't worry about the English to much. You can post what you have here and IA members can help with any changes that are needed.

Sarah


I will be happy to help edit and/or spruce up any of the English! I have been super busy lately, but that is getting better, and editing is quick!

Go for it, pmop57!!
When you berate someone and push them and confuse them and lie to them and convince them that they're wrong you're not finding the truth.

Amanda Knox
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Bruce Fischer » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:02 am

http://www.thesudburystar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3468968

Were bullets matching the bullets used to commit the crime found in Debra's purse?

On Friday, December 1, 1989 JIM STYERS took both CHRISTOPHER and his daughter WENDY with him for Christmas shopping to the Phoenix Metro Center, while Debra stayed at home doing laundry. It was during these chores that Debra found a box of bullets between the laundry, and she didn't want them lying around and shoved them into her purse. In the meantime CHRISTOPHER saw Santa Claus at the Metro Center mall, and it excited him a great deal. The little boy was determined to see "Santa" again. Later that evening STYERS dropped WENDY off at his mother GAIL and inquired of her whether he could pick WENDY up again on Saturday morning. GAIL refused because of things she had already planned, but suggested JIM should pick his daughter up later on the afternoon of Saturday.

From the interview of GAIL LIPSHULTZ, June 25, 1990 :


I am hung up on this detail. Can anyone provide more information on this?
"This could happen to any one of you. If you don't believe it could happen, you are either misinformed or in a state of deep denial" -- Debra Milke
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby RimRider » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:20 am

Bruce Fischer wrote:http://www.thesudburystar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3468968

Were bullets matching the bullets used to commit the crime found in Debra's purse?

I am hung up on this detail. Can anyone provide more information on this?


Yes. While cleaning up in the apartment DEBRA found a box of bullets. She didn't want them lying around openly, and put it in her purse. It was a box that STYERS had purchased in connection with acquiring three guns ins total (one which which was eventually fatal to CHRIS, and was later found in ROGER SCOTT's apartment, wrapped up, hidden in a box).

From http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/intro/enlightenment.shtml
On Friday, December 1, 1989 JIM STYERS took Christopher and his daughter WENDY with him for Christmas shopping at the Phoenix Metrocenter, while Debra stayed at home doing laundry. It was during these chores that Debra found a box of bullets between the laundry, and she didn't want them lying around and put them into her purse.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:47 am

Bruce Fischer wrote:http://www.thesudburystar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3468968

Were bullets matching the bullets used to commit the crime found in Debra's purse?

On Friday, December 1, 1989 JIM STYERS took both CHRISTOPHER and his daughter WENDY with him for Christmas shopping to the Phoenix Metro Center, while Debra stayed at home doing laundry. It was during these chores that Debra found a box of bullets between the laundry, and she didn't want them lying around and shoved them into her purse. In the meantime CHRISTOPHER saw Santa Claus at the Metro Center mall, and it excited him a great deal. The little boy was determined to see "Santa" again. Later that evening STYERS dropped WENDY off at his mother GAIL and inquired of her whether he could pick WENDY up again on Saturday morning. GAIL refused because of things she had already planned, but suggested JIM should pick his daughter up later on the afternoon of Saturday.
I
From the interview of GAIL LIPSHULTZ, June 25, 1990 :


I am hung up on this detail. Can anyone provide more information on this?


As far as I can see up to know this was never part of the trial against Milke. Attention to interviews, there was a real which hunt against Milke at that time.
What is clear is that Styers was the owner of the arm that way used to kill Christopher, so it is possible that there were bullets in the apparment.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Hans » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:04 pm

This is a short overview on the case as posted on [url]debbiemilke.com[/url] (It's the first listed under "The Case" and titeled "State of Arizona vs. Debra Jean Milke")
Debra Jean Milke was arrested on December 3rd, 1989, for complicity in the murder of her only child, four year-old Christopher Conan Milke. The previous day, Debra allowed JIM STYERS, with whom she temporarily shared an apartment, to use her car for shopping errands at a nearby mall. Christopher begged her to let him go along. When she received a phone call from STYERS that Christopher was missing she phoned the police for assistance.

Before even going to the mall, STYERS picked up a friend of his, ROGER MARK SCOTT. Police detectives interviewed STYERS as well as SCOTT, while other police personnel were searching for leads to find Christopher. After many hours of waiting in the apartment for news of what might have happened to Christopher, Debbie went with her stepmother and stepsister to her father's house near Florence, Arizona. The police took her father's telephone number in case they needed to reach her.

Meanwhile, police detectives questioned SCOTT and STYERS intensively and eventually, Homicide Detective Armando Saldate, jr. was assigned to handle the case. STYERS was subsequently released, but after many hours of interrogation, SCOTT led the police to a place in the desert where Christopher's body was found, shot to death by three .22 caliber bullets to the back of his head. SCOTT claimed "JIM killed him", and during the ride to the crime scene - approximately 30 minutes later - he also implicated Debra stating, "The baby's mother knew all about the killing and in fact the only reason that CHRIS was killed was because she wanted it done."

JAMES STYERS, during his questioning by police, NEVER implicated Debra to have any part in this conspiracy - not then, not during his own trial, or any time later. STYERS claims SCOTT killed Christopher and threatened to kill him too. SCOTT denied that he killed Christopher, but confessed the murder to a co-inmate, ROBERT E. JOHNSON. However, the interrogation reports, his tape-recorded confession, and his testimony during his own trial show that he constantly changed his story.

Based on the allegation of SCOTT police decided to arrest JIM STYERS for murder, and it was only after his refusal to say anything more that Saldate went by helicopter, with no recording device to Florence to interview Debra. Debbie was awakened from a short nap (by Pinal County Sheriff's deputy SOULES) and she was told that a Phoenix Police detective would meet her at the Sheriff's Office. A friend of the family, JANET FROEBE, took Debra to the Sheriff's Complex, where both of them were led to a small infirmary room. Two Phoenix police detectives, who had arrived at the Jail facility at the same time, did not make contact with any of the two women, but asked Deputy SOULES whether there was a room where they could wait. After one hour seventeen minutes Saldate arrived and entered the room. He identified himself, dismissed JANET, and closed the door. He did not use any recording devices and later on claimed, he would only go to Florence to interview Debra. In fact, Saldate made contradictory statements about this point on various occasions. When Debra immediately asked Saldate if the police had found her son or if they had any knowledge of what might have happened, he ignored her question - instead he opened his interview by telling her : "We found your son, he was murdered, and you are under arrest." The interview lasted approximately thirty five minutes, and when Saldate left the room he made no statements to anyone on the outside at all. Later he claimed he had a "confession" from Debra Milke. Debbie was not permitted to make a phone call during the interview and when she was taken from the interrogation room, she was instructed not to speak to anyone. Saldate then took her to Phoenix to the main police station, but didn't handcuff her on the way there.

On the same day that the Grand Jury indicted her, Debra spoke to her assigned public defender for the very first time. She volunteered to be tried first, because she proclaimed her innocence in this conspiracy at all times and "wanted to get this nightmare over with." Debbie volunteered to testify and denied having had anything to do with the murder of her son, or ever having made a confession to anyone.

During her trial, Saldate testified that he had destroyed his copious notes, taken during his interview with Debbie. He did not write up his report of the interview until three days later. This seven page police report (which according to court testimony was supplemented at some later date) was handed to Debra to read in mid January 1990 by her Defense Counsel. She dismissed it as a total fabrication, never initialed or signed this report and vehemently denied ever having made any "confession" to anybody. Her defense attorney, during the investigative pre-trial stage, did not receive a copy of the supplemental report until July 1990 (two months prior to trial) and was not aware that this report would later be used as a "confession." During Debra's trial, Saldate's self-written report was accepted into evidence by Judge Cheryl Hendrix, who ruled that the contents of the report had been given voluntarily by Debra Jean Milke and that she had been properly "Mirandized."

Prosecutor NOEL LEVY subpoenaed Debbie's father, RICHARD SADEIK, and his wife MAUREEN; her sister, SANDRA PICKINPAUGH (even though she was a Wyoming citizen at that time); her step-sister, KAREN SMITH and her former close friend DOROTHY MARKWELL to testify for the State against Debra. Their testimonies, based on the questions they were asked, were instrumental for the jury to reach their decision of "guilty" on all counts. Debra Milke's trial was concluded in October 1990, and she was convicted of conspiracy to commit murder, first degree murder, kidnapping, and child abuse. In January 1991, Judge Cheryl K. Hendrix sentenced her to death.

It seems that Armando Saldate needed a big case solved because he was candidating for an office. Another thing, during that unrecorded questioning Debra said something like "I didn't want him (her son) to be like his dad." That was taken as "I'd rather let him be killed, before he becomes like his father..." ???
This is from the Lates News Part of debbiemike.com:
Mom’s Confession Claim in Son’s Killing Denied
Filed under: Arizona,Media,Publications — Tags: federal court, Miranda Warning, Robert C. Broomfield, The Arizona Republic — Webmaster @ 12:00 am

by Michael Kiefer – Jan. 30, 2010 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

A federal judge in Phoenix rejected a child killer’s claim that the confession that led to her 1990 conviction was not obtained knowingly and voluntarily as required by law.

Debra Milke, 45, was sentenced to death for the murder of her 4-year-old son, who was taken to the desert by friends of Milke and shot in the head.

But in September, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ordered that a judge at the U.S. District Court in Phoenix hold hearings to determine if Milke’s confession was properly obtained and then report back to the 9th Circuit.

During those hearings earlier this month, Milke and the detective who obtained the confession both testified about the interview they sat through nearly 20 years earlier.

The detective, Armando Saldate, said he did not record the interview at Milke’s choosing. Milke maintained that she did not understand her Miranda warnings and that her requests to see a lawyer were denied.

But in his ruling late Friday, Judge Robert Broomfield determined that Milke “knowingly, voluntarily and intelligently waived her Miranda rights during her interrogation by Detective Saldate.”

It will now be up to the 9th Circuit to decide whether to overturn Milke’s death sentence or to grant her a new trial.

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/2010/01/30/20100130milke0130-CP.html
I'm trying to get a hand on Renate Janka's (Debbie's mother's) book... I hope that the "e-mail"-contact button on debbiemilke.com still works... :winks:
He [Raffaele] is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque caricature that is “Foxy Knoxy”
~ Amanda Knox
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby RimRider » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:49 pm

Please have a look at the video clip I posted above.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby RimRider » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:00 pm

I'm trying to get a hand on Renate Janka's (Debbie's mother's) book... I hope that the "e-mail"-contact button on debbiemilke.com still works... :winks:


Hans, write to webmaster@debbiemilke.com
The book is only available as used copies on the German amazon.de website. For the others, I can offer translated English files of the entire book.
However, it does not offer many details about Debra's case. It solely describes the situation from Renate's point of view at the time, which explains a little about the lack of support Debra received at the time. It took a few years for the two women to work out their misunderstandings and clashes.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Bruce Fischer » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:02 pm

RimRider wrote:
Bruce Fischer wrote:http://www.thesudburystar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3468968

Were bullets matching the bullets used to commit the crime found in Debra's purse?

I am hung up on this detail. Can anyone provide more information on this?


Yes. While cleaning up in the apartment DEBRA found a box of bullets. She didn't want them lying around openly, and put it in her purse. It was a box that STYERS had purchased in connection with acquiring three guns ins total (one which which was eventually fatal to CHRIS, and was later found in ROGER SCOTT's apartment, wrapped up, hidden in a box).

From http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/intro/enlightenment.shtml
On Friday, December 1, 1989 JIM STYERS took Christopher and his daughter WENDY with him for Christmas shopping at the Phoenix Metrocenter, while Debra stayed at home doing laundry. It was during these chores that Debra found a box of bullets between the laundry, and she didn't want them lying around and put them into her purse.


I am having a difficult time with this explanation. Another post said that this was not used in court. Do we have confirmation on that? I don't want to make too much about nothing but it sounds odd to me that she found bullets while doing chores and decided to put them in her purse. Why not put them on a shelf or in a cabinet?
"This could happen to any one of you. If you don't believe it could happen, you are either misinformed or in a state of deep denial" -- Debra Milke
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:21 am

Bruce Fischer wrote:
RimRider wrote:
Bruce Fischer wrote:http://www.thesudburystar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3468968

Were bullets matching the bullets used to commit the crime found in Debra's purse?

I am hung up on this detail. Can anyone provide more information on this?


Yes. While cleaning up in the apartment DEBRA found a box of bullets. She didn't want them lying around openly, and put it in her purse. It was a box that STYERS had purchased in connection with acquiring three guns ins total (one which which was eventually fatal to CHRIS, and was later found in ROGER SCOTT's apartment, wrapped up, hidden in a box).

From http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/intro/enlightenment.shtml
On Friday, December 1, 1989 JIM STYERS took Christopher and his daughter WENDY with him for Christmas shopping at the Phoenix Metrocenter, while Debra stayed at home doing laundry. It was during these chores that Debra found a box of bullets between the laundry, and she didn't want them lying around and put them into her purse.


I am having a difficult time with this explanation. Another post said that this was not used in court. Do we have confirmation on that? I don't want to make too much about nothing but it sounds odd to me that she found bullets while doing chores and decided to put them in her purse. Why not put them on a shelf or in a cabinet?


This is from "www.debbiemilke.com": A Try of Enlightement

Now that we know about how LEVY twisted testimonies we should have a look if there are really indications to assume that JIM STYERS and Debra had a part in the killing of CHRIS. Why did LEVY suggest that STYERS and CHRISTOPHER have left the apartment at 11:00 a.m., when in fact more indications exist that tell us it has actually happened earlier ? First of all, let's have a look at the issue of the bullets again. When STYERS and SCOTT were arrested on December 3, 1989 the car they used - Debra's while Toyota Corolla - was confiscated by Phoenix police. In a police report by DET. R. MILLS #2781 he stated :
( ... )
"On 12/7/89 at 1012 hours, DET. ARMANDO SALDATE and I went to the basement at 620 W. Washington to the vehicle examination room where we located the 1986 white Toyota Corolla bearing Arizona license DCZ-395. A search was conducted of that vehicle with appropriate photographs being taken by Latent Print Examiner MARK HATCHER #A2863.
( ... )
On the transmission hum in front of the gear shift I located the sunglasses. When opening up the glovebox the first item noted was the child size Cardinals sweatshirt, and underneath of that was the box of CCI brand .22 caliber ammunition."
( ... )
And the first page of that report summarized under point 7 : "One plastic box of CCI brand .22 cal. ammunition. Head stamp "C", silver casing with copper plated hollow point bullets. 18 missing from box of 50, K-Mart sale tag reading $2.19 488 - Key 7."
Six of those bullets were found in the revolver discovered at ROGER SCOTT'S apartment, but police has never questioned why eighteen bullets were missing from this box. Since CHRISTOPHER had been found shot to death with three bullets in the head fifteen more bullets must have been used and spent otherwise. How ? Why ? What was behind the use of these other fifteen bullets ? None of the questions ever came up in Debra Milke's trial.

So there must have been two boxes with bullets, one in the car and one in the appartment!?
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:45 am

Here is the short version of this case. I am grateful for every correction and addendum to this.

The Debra Jean Milke case

On december 2nd Debra MILKE consented to Jim STYERS, a man with whom she was sharing a flat allowing her to divide the accommodation costs, to use her car to visit a nearby shopping center. She also allowed her son, four year old Christopher, who was begging for, to accompany him. STYERS did not inform her in advance that on the way he would also take Roger SCOTT along. During this time Debra stayed at home doing housework.
Later Jim STYERS informed her by phone that her son Christopher was missing in the shopping center. After this call Debra MILKE in panic informed her father and the police by asking for help.
Meanwhile the police was starting questioning Jim STYERS and this questioning soon was leading to Roger SCOTT. Both claimed in a first time that the missing of Christopher had to be about kidnapping.
After intensive questioning Roger SCOTT was leading the police to the place where the dead body of Christopher was laying. Christopher was shot dead with three bullets to the back of his head. At this moment the investigation started to be managed by homicide detective Armando SALDATE.
Roger SCOTT indicated that Debra MILKE was the commissioner of the killing, that Christopher was killed because his mother wanted it to be done. In the future he often will change his statements. In his own trial he will deny that Debra MILKE was involved in the murder. Jim STYERS never claimed that Debra MILKE was in any way involved in the killing of her son.
But Armando SALDA believed Roger SCOTT and decided to go to arrest Debra MILKE without ever having talked to her, without ever having met her.
Before going to interrogate Debra MILKE, police officer Armando SALDATE was advised by his superior to tape the interrogation because of the high profile of the case, an order Armando SALDATE will later simply ignore.
When Armando SALDATE arrived at the police station where Debra MILKE with a relative, he immediately separated the two women. He left the relative with another police officer outside the interrogation room, so that he and Debra MILKE were the sole persons present during the interrogation.
Debra MILKE when asking Armando SALDATE if they had found her son and what might have happened to him he ignored her questions and started the interview by telling her that they found her son, that he was murdered and that she was under arrest. Everybody should be able to understand the state of mind of the young mother at that moment. After thirty minutes he left the interrogation room without any statement, Debra MILKE was instructed to speak to anyone and carried to Phoenix, to the main police station.
Later Armando SALDE stated in his report that during the interrogation Debra MILKE had confessed her participation in the murder by commissioning the two men, Jim STYERS and Roger SCOTT, to commit the crime.
In the future Debra MILKE will always strongly and vehemently contest ever having admit any participation in the murder of her four year old son, ever having made any confession to anybody.
The extraordinary on this is that Armanda SALDATE ignored the order of his superior to tape the interrogation, that he undertook everything to avoid the interrogation being witnessed by anybody, there was no document signed by Deborah MILKE and that later he conceded having destroyed his handwritten notes of the interrogation. He only wrote his report three days later, out of memory, confirming the so called confession of Debra MILKE.
There was no other element implying Debra MILKE to the crime, not a single one, but the witnessing of Armando SLADATE. Nothing but his word against the word of Debra MILKE.
Based on the statements of Armando SALDATE, by a court exclusively believing the police officer, by a court refusing any witnessing in favour of the defendant, Debra MILKE was sentenced to death. Since she was for more than two decades on Arizona death row, most time in solitary confinement.
Actually Debra MILKE is waiting for the very last decision of the judicial instances, hope for a new trial or execution by lethal injection.
In separate trials, Jim STYERS and Roger SCOTT were also sentenced to death.

The most challenging points of this case :

- The real execution of the four year old son of Debra MILKE, three shooting in the back of his head.
- The conspiracy theory, Debra MILKE commissioning the killing of her son.
- The character assassination campaign by the press, the relatives of her former husband and even members of her own family. She became the most hated women of Arizona.
- A very telling story, …… a boy who simply wanted to see Santa Claus murdered in the desert ……
- A case built up on the saying of a police officer. A motive constructed by the prosecution.
- The interrogation : No taping, no other persons present (but officer Armando SALDATE), no hand written statement, no signed statement, nothing.
- The carrier of Armando SALDATE who was aspiring for getting elected to a public office and who could really profit from the outcome of this high profile case.
- A totally biased court.
- The justification of the sentence.

This case is centered on the witnessing of Armando SALDATE.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby RimRider » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:21 am

pmop57 wrote:So there must have been two boxes with bullets, one in the car and one in the appartment!?


Correct. We know for a fact that STYERS and SCOTT had been out in that desert area for target practicing a few times before. And indeed, four witnesses exist who testified that not only three, but five to seven shots were fired on that Saturday. In his incredible incrimination of Debra SCOTT claimed that there was a previous attempt on CHRIS life, but was never able to tell a consistent story:
http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/case/docs ... view.shtml
In fact, later on (even at his own trial) he attempted to recant his story. Also, he reclined the offer for a plea bargain to testify against Debra.
http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/mjplay/pleabargain.shtml

Plus the fact, that four people independently stated that not three, but five to seven shots were heard on that Saturday when CHRIS got killed:
http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/case/docs/jeanpugh.shtml
Those were the only shots they heard that Saturday, and they happened approx. at 11 a.m. This is totally out of sync with the story prosecutor NOEL LEVY told the jury, and which Debra was convicted on. By the way, LEVY was the same prosecutor in the cases against RAY KRONE and DAVID HEYDE.

If I recall correctly, the box of bullets was never an issue at Debra Milke's trial at all. Talking about why she shoved them in her purse, I can only assume that we should remember it was not her own apartment she lived in at the time. Maybe her purse was just open and close by. That's really up to speculation. However, since no one ever accused Debra of having shot herself, and there is no connection that links her to any gun; there's no direct relevance, I would think.

P.S.: Oh, I should add, there was another incident with a gun. MARK MILE drove to a place when STYERS own car wrecked up one time. CHRIS was with him again. MARK noted that STYERS had a gun with him (under one seat, I believe), and had him promise to never subject CHRIS to the presence of a weapon ever again. That's not on the debbiemilke.com website, but I recall reading it in the police records. Also, during the missing person investigation Debra handed out one gun she knew of, from a closet. Another gun was found at their apartment when the place was searched. So, I think Debra was aware that STYERS had a love for guns, but she obviously didn't know everything about it. I would guess she didn't know about the two guns STYERS had purchased shortly before this happened.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:37 am

I am actually reading the book published by swiss journalist Jacques Secrtain about this case. It is very telling concerning the carriers of Levy and Saldate. I am trying to get him post on this thread. My opinion is to focus on the issues of the trial but always staying vigilant to supplementary informations.
It has also to be paid attention to various hate proposals towards Debbie Milke (from her former husbands family up to pro death sentence activists).
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby RimRider » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:44 am

pmop57 wrote:I am actually reading the book published by swiss journalist Jacques Secrtain about this case. It is very telling concerning the carriers of Levy and Saldate. I am trying to get him post on this thread. My opinion is to focus on the issues of the trial but always staying vigilant to supplementary informations.
It has also to be paid attention to various hate proposals towards Debbie Milke (from her former husbands family up to pro death sentence activists).


Problem here is this: The trial did not reveal the true story surrounding the murder case. The story raised against Debra Milke is factually wrong (knowingly manipulated by LEVY), and can be disproved. The entire timeline told doesn't fit, that's a fact.
http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/case/docs ... well.shtml

Secretan is supporting Debra, but for the most part he confuses the details of the case.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby RimRider » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:52 am

Has anyone seen the Facebook page of Mark Milke lately?
http://www.facebook.com/arizona.milke

There he's stating: "Well... not long ago,I had both ex-wives in the same prison at the same time,with my last name.My catch-phrase motto became:"I'm cleaning up the streets of Phoenix...One wife at a time" Sorry Ladies...applications not being accepted at this time!"
Boy, the guy is such a freak... :unhappy:

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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:36 am

If I understand correctly the sole focus on the interrogation methods of Saladate is not enough to understand but Levy was also envolved in manipulating this case. This would lead to the conclusion that there was conspiracy of the responsables for this case against Deborah Milke and that finally Levy must have known that Deborah Milke was innocent. This was of cause not part of the different appeal stages of the case.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby RimRider » Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:35 am

pmop57 wrote:If I understand correctly the sole focus on the interrogation methods of Saladate is not enough to understand but Levy was also envolved in manipulating this case. This would lead to the conclusion that there was conspiracy of the responsables for this case against Deborah Milke and that finally Levy must have known that Deborah Milke was innocent. This was of cause not part of the different appeal stages of the case.


Her name is Debra, not Deborah. Debra Jean Milke.
You are correct. Many cases in the US show that it is usually two officials in helping to create such injustice. In Europe the justice system is more about truly finding out what happened. The prosecution is obliged to correct itself if indexes exist that a person may be innocent. In the US the system is more about winning at any cost, no matter what. It is fine to want to win a case, but let's be honest, it is not okay for a prosecutor to knowingly orchestrate a case against an innocent person. Plus the fact that a prosecutor can't be held responsible for fraudulent activity. Also, it is hard to prove what a prosecutor truly thought of an indictment.

P.S.: Oh, again an addendum: We know for a fact that Det. Saldate and Levy had an arrest which led to a death penalty case just on the day before (a completely different case). The two often cooperated. I was also told a rumor (which I cannot prove or verify) that Levy was the highest paid prosecutor back then, in the years of 1988-'92.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Bruce Fischer » Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:44 am

RimRider wrote:
pmop57 wrote:So there must have been two boxes with bullets, one in the car and one in the appartment!?


Correct. We know for a fact that STYERS and SCOTT had been out in that desert area for target practicing a few times before. And indeed, four witnesses exist who testified that not only three, but five to seven shots were fired on that Saturday. In his incredible incrimination of Debra SCOTT claimed that there was a previous attempt on CHRIS life, but was never able to tell a consistent story:
http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/case/docs ... view.shtml
In fact, later on (even at his own trial) he attempted to recant his story. Also, he reclined the offer for a plea bargain to testify against Debra.
http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/mjplay/pleabargain.shtml

Plus the fact, that four people independently stated that not three, but five to seven shots were heard on that Saturday when CHRIS got killed:
http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/case/docs/jeanpugh.shtml
Those were the only shots they heard that Saturday, and they happened approx. at 11 a.m. This is totally out of sync with the story prosecutor NOEL LEVY told the jury, and which Debra was convicted on. By the way, LEVY was the same prosecutor in the cases against RAY KRONE and DAVID HEYDE.

If I recall correctly, the box of bullets was never an issue at Debra Milke's trial at all. Talking about why she shoved them in her purse, I can only assume that we should remember it was not her own apartment she lived in at the time. Maybe her purse was just open and close by. That's really up to speculation. However, since no one ever accused Debra of having shot herself, and there is no connection that links her to any gun; there's no direct relevance, I would think.

P.S.: Oh, I should add, there was another incident with a gun. MARK MILE drove to a place when STYERS own car wrecked up one time. CHRIS was with him again. MARK noted that STYERS had a gun with him (under one seat, I believe), and had him promise to never subject CHRIS to the presence of a weapon ever again. That's not on the debbiemilke.com website, but I recall reading it in the police records. Also, during the missing person investigation Debra handed out one gun she knew of, from a closet. Another gun was found at their apartment when the place was searched. So, I think Debra was aware that STYERS had a love for guns, but she obviously didn't know everything about it. I would guess she didn't know about the two guns STYERS had purchased shortly before this happened.


It sounds like guns were present in the home so it would not have been a shock for Debra to find an unopened box of bullets.

It is a strong talking point for those who believe that Debra is guilty.

"Bullets matching the bullets used to kill her son were later found in her purse"
"This could happen to any one of you. If you don't believe it could happen, you are either misinformed or in a state of deep denial" -- Debra Milke
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:25 am

Bruce Fischer wrote:
RimRider wrote:
pmop57 wrote:So there must have been two boxes with bullets, one in the car and one in the appartment!?


Correct. We know for a fact that STYERS and SCOTT had been out in that desert area for target practicing a few times before. And indeed, four witnesses exist who testified that not only three, but five to seven shots were fired on that Saturday. In his incredible incrimination of Debra SCOTT claimed that there was a previous attempt on CHRIS life, but was never able to tell a consistent story:
http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/case/docs ... view.shtml
In fact, later on (even at his own trial) he attempted to recant his story. Also, he reclined the offer for a plea bargain to testify against Debra.
http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/mjplay/pleabargain.shtml

Plus the fact, that four people independently stated that not three, but five to seven shots were heard on that Saturday when CHRIS got killed:
http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/case/docs/jeanpugh.shtml
Those were the only shots they heard that Saturday, and they happened approx. at 11 a.m. This is totally out of sync with the story prosecutor NOEL LEVY told the jury, and which Debra was convicted on. By the way, LEVY was the same prosecutor in the cases against RAY KRONE and DAVID HEYDE.

If I recall correctly, the box of bullets was never an issue at Debra Milke's trial at all. Talking about why she shoved them in her purse, I can only assume that we should remember it was not her own apartment she lived in at the time. Maybe her purse was just open and close by. That's really up to speculation. However, since no one ever accused Debra of having shot herself, and there is no connection that links her to any gun; there's no direct relevance, I would think.

P.S.: Oh, I should add, there was another incident with a gun. MARK MILE drove to a place when STYERS own car wrecked up one time. CHRIS was with him again. MARK noted that STYERS had a gun with him (under one seat, I believe), and had him promise to never subject CHRIS to the presence of a weapon ever again. That's not on the debbiemilke.com website, but I recall reading it in the police records. Also, during the missing person investigation Debra handed out one gun she knew of, from a closet. Another gun was found at their apartment when the place was searched. So, I think Debra was aware that STYERS had a love for guns, but she obviously didn't know everything about it. I would guess she didn't know about the two guns STYERS had purchased shortly before this happened.


It sounds like guns were present in the home so it would not have been a shock for Debra to find an unopened box of bullets.

It is a strong talking point for those who believe that Debra is guilty.

"Bullets matching the bullets used to kill her son were later found in her purse"


I don't find any other document confirming the presence of the bullets in her purse. That there were arms in the appartment, I think, she should have known.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby RimRider » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:29 am

pmop57 wrote:I don't find any other document confirming the presence of the bullets in her purse. That there were arms in the appartment, I think, she should have known.


Well, as I said above, she knew of one gun which she handed over to police during the missing person investigation. She had no idea about the other one which was found thereafter, upon police searching the place. And it makes sense: The purpose for JIM STYERS to go to ROGER SCOTT in the morning of that day was to give ROGER that gun. STYERS had some time to kill before he could go and pick his daughter WENDY up, and that's why they decided to go to the desert and try the new gun:
http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/case/docs ... ultz.shtml
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:03 am

I don't claim and never claimed before knowing every detail of the case. From the documents I could read the first element that intrigued me was the way the interrogation was managed by Saladate. The second point was how all this could be so easily be accepted by the judges and finally lead to sentencing to death. The third point was that Debra was on the way reorganizing her life and all pointed to that she wanted to reorganize her life with and for her son. The implication of Levy in the framing of Debra makes sense for me.

Actually on this thread we might be able to reconstruct every detail of what was going wrong in this case. This would of cause be of peculiar interest for a reopening of the trial. But is there enough time left to do so?

So my actuel question is. 1) Are we willing to and is it still opportune to lounch an appeal for more support for this case to get more attention to the actual petitionning? And if so we have to hurry! 2) Is there a major risk (possibility of ignoring incriminating facts)to cause damage to IA?


My personal conviction is that Debra Milke is innocent, that she was railroaded to serve the carreers of some gluttons and that the principle of responsable beyond any reasonnable doubt was clearly violated by the judges.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby RimRider » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:31 am

pmop57, I'm very much at your side. Actually, all details of the case are cleared up now, in great detail, with the tiniest comb. Debra not only had a weak public defender at her own trial. Her attorney through the 90s, Mr. Anders Rosenquist, also largely based his legal briefs on assumptions, other than to properly research the case. I spoke to the man on the phone once, and his second sentence to me was already: "Where did Debra's mother get the money to hire one Mike Kimerer?" That's the type of attorney Rosenquist is. The case lies before us today, and there is hardly one detail which has not been researched and cleared up properly.

Debra is in her federal appeals process, and it's up to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco to decide what will happen. The two oral arguments before that court can also be followed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMQ1KWK8jz0 and http://youtu.be/GdsbRCQ8K_Q
Especially the second hearing went very good, I think. So, if the 9th Circuit Court throws out the troubling purported confession (Saldate's police report), it will be up to the state of Arizona to retry Debra. In every case, whatever the 9th Circuit Court will decide, the losing party will appeal. But I doubt Arizona will attempt to retry Debra, because there is no single other piece of evidence, and the efforts of her supporters to become vocal about this gross injustice have become way too strong. I think the prosecution will not be interested to be accused of wasting more tax payer's money. I personally would hope for more attention locally in Arizona, but as soon as San Francisco comes up with a decision, her name will be in the headlines again; I have no doubts about that. So, it's hurry up and wait at this point, and keeping our fingers crossed.

Oh, let me just explain this: Since the appeals on the state level (filed by atty. Rosenquist) were so weak, Debra is now legally limited to the narrow issue of "waiver" (in the federal appeal). The question before the 9th Circuit Court is weather she understood her rights. She continued to talk, which served Saldate to make up his report, and mix some of Debra's statements with his made up claims. That's his usual technique, as the comparison of the audio tape with his report of the interview of Sandra Pickenpaugh shows. The 9th Circuit Court now has to decide, if she was in a situation to grasp (just being informed about her son's death) that she waived her rights by talking to Saldate. Since Saldate was not able to produce evidence for Debra waiving her rights (signature, tape recording, witness) that decision may become crucial in respect to the handling of Miranda Warnings in the future.

[youtube]jyfLSZpgL1M[/youtube]
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Dougm » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:57 am

pmop57 wrote:I don't claim and never claimed before knowing every detail of the case. From the documents I could read the first element that intrigued me was the way the interrogation was managed by Saladate. The second point was how all this could be so easily be accepted by the judges and finally lead to sentencing to death. The third point was that Debra was on the way reorganizing her life and all pointed to that she wanted to reorganize her life with and for her son. The implication of Levy in the framing of Debra makes sense for me.

Actually on this thread we might be able to reconstruct every detail of what was going wrong in this case. This would of cause be of peculiar interest for a reopening of the trial. But is there enough time left to do so?

So my actuel question is. 1) Are we willing to and is it still opportune to lounch an appeal for more support for this case to get more attention to the actual petitionning? And if so we have to hurry! 2) Is there a major risk (possibility of ignoring incriminating facts)to cause damage to IA?


My personal conviction is that Debra Milke is innocent, that she was railroaded to serve the carreers of some gluttons and that the principle of responsable beyond any reasonnable doubt was clearly violated by the judges.


Although, with the information I have read so far, I can't say 100% she is innocent, the case seems extraordinarily week against her. I don't understand how she was convicted, much less sentenced to death, on such weak evidence.

Further, to me this case represents a very important issue for justice: Should we, as a society, be convicting someone of a crime with the only evidence being the testimony that the person confessed to a cop who has no independent verification of that confession? Add to that this is a young mother who lost her child, and that she is sentenced to death, and we have a real travesty here.
When you berate someone and push them and confuse them and lie to them and convince them that they're wrong you're not finding the truth.

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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:12 pm

Dougm
I do not want to be misunderstood.
I'm 100% with you. She is innocent. I do not doubt about that.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Dougm » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:43 pm

pmop57 wrote:Dougm
I do not want to be misunderstood.
I'm 100% with you. She is innocent. I do not doubt about that.


I understood your position, and there is nothing I can see to contradict your view.

What I was saying is, even if I am not 100% sure she is innocent, I am 100% sure we should not convict a mother and sentence her to death with the evidence they have. Which appears to be none.
When you berate someone and push them and confuse them and lie to them and convince them that they're wrong you're not finding the truth.

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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Bruce Fischer » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:03 pm

I am amazed that they were able to secure a death sentence with the evidence presented. All three defendants were looked at with the same hatred with no attempt to look at each of the accused as an individual. With that mindset, the prosecution's story looked good to the jury. A child was murdered. People tend to lose the ability to think rationally when horrific crimes of this nature occur.
"This could happen to any one of you. If you don't believe it could happen, you are either misinformed or in a state of deep denial" -- Debra Milke
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby roteoctober » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:47 pm

I'm really in trouble to express all my dismay for such an absurd conviction.

A conviction based just on the word of a police officer without written statements or recording is tantamount to give any police officer the power of deciding who is guilty and who is innocent, when the sentence is death, it is equivalent to give them a power of choosing who lives and who dies.

This is something that usually happens only in dictatorships.

I cannot swear with certainty that something similar never happened in Italy (death penalty and fascist era aside), but from what I can remember, I never heard of a life sentence (or even 20-30 years) deriving just from the words of a police officer.

What strikes me the most is that the various appeal grades didn't seem to point out this immediately.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:50 pm

What can, should be the next steps?
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Dougm » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:59 pm

roteoctober wrote:I'm really in trouble to express all my dismay for such an absurd conviction.

A conviction based just on the word of a police officer without written statements or recording is tantamount to give any police officer the power of deciding who is guilty and who is innocent, when the sentence is death, it is equivalent to give them a power of choosing who lives and who dies.

This is something that usually happens only in dictatorships.

I cannot swear with certainty that something similar never happened in Italy (death penalty and fascist era aside), but from what I can remember, I never heard of a life sentence (or even 20-30 years) deriving just from the words of a police officer.

What strikes me the most is that the various appeal grades didn't seem to point out this immediately.


I concur, roteoctober. I am shocked to realize that something like this can happen in the US. It should not be allowed anywhere. We were all fighting against the idea that the authorities just made stuff up in the Amanda Knox case, but this one is worse, if only because they didn't bother to make up much more than an unrecorded confession, because they didn't think they needed to, and they were right.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby RimRider » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:37 pm

Listen here:
Excerpts of the Interview of County Attorney Office's investigator with Jean Pugh, a local who lived just one and a half block away from where Christopher Milke was shot; recorded October 9, 1990, one day before the state's closing argument in the case against Debra Milke.

JeanPugh_Interview1.mp3
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby roteoctober » Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:23 pm

pmop57 wrote:What can, should be the next steps?


I've read that something is moving and there is some reaction in the public. I don't know how much can be done from Europe, but we can sign petition and intervene on blogs and article discussions. Unfortunately, as I said, I'll be away for a few days with limited Internet access, but I'll try to read more about the case and then put together some sort of article for IA.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:43 am

RimRider wrote:Listen here:
Excerpts of the Interview of County Attorney Office's investigator with Jean Pugh, a local who lived just one and a half block away from where Christopher Milke was shot; recorded October 9, 1990, one day before the state's closing argument in the case against Debra Milke.

JeanPugh_Interview1.mp3


I have problems to understand the record, are there any scripts of it available?
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:46 am

roteoctober wrote:
pmop57 wrote:What can, should be the next steps?


I've read that something is moving and there is some reaction in the public. I don't know how much can be done from Europe, but we can sign petition and intervene on blogs and article discussions. Unfortunately, as I said, I'll be away for a few days with limited Internet access, but I'll try to read more about the case and then put together some sort of article for IA.


I am with you. There has to be done some articles and they have to be posted by IA.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby LarryK » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:51 am

This sounds like a worse railroad job than Amanda Knox. I wouldn't have believed that a death sentence in the United States could be obtained on so little, at least since the pre-Civil-Rights days in the South. I'm wondering why it was so late in becoming public knowledge. It's almost too late to do anything now; we just have to hope the 9th Circuit Court does its job and recognizes that she was deprived of her Miranda rights without her knowledge. If they overturn her conviction, hopefully the increasing degree of public notoriety will dissuade the state of Arizona from retrying her.

I have to add that I really don't have the time to commit to help publicize this, unfortunately.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby RimRider » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:56 am

pmop57 wrote:I have problems to understand the record, are there any scripts of it available?

Yep, I also have a problem to understand two, three places, but here it is.... Stan Reichsfeld is the County Attorney Office's investigator...
(...)
Stan Reichsfeld: What was the information that you gave to Mr. Ray?
Jean Pugh: Ah, the amount of gun shots that I had heard.
Stan Reichsfeld: Okay. On what particular day?
Jean Pugh: It was on December the 2nd.
Stan Reichsfeld: Okay. How do you know it was that day as opposed to some other day?
Jean Pugh: Because they were different type of shots, they were very unusual for out here.
Stan Reichsfeld: Okay, how do you know is was that December 2nd, as opposed to December 3rd, or December 4th...
Jean Pugh: 'Cause my son was up there.
Stan Reichsfeld: Aha.
Jean Pugh: Ah, we were barbequing the whole day, and... The - I have a neighbor down below me that's sort of camping there, as a privilege from the owner of the hilltop, and he has a mental - ah - disorder. And we've seen him carrying a gun which upset me. And then when the shots were not the normal type of shots we hear here, I was very much alert because I have a lot of glass in my house.
Stan Reichsfeld: You bet, yeah.
Jean Pugh: And - my first thought was 'Oh God, somebody's running to shoot a gun, it must be Mike'. And so I went outdoors and at the time I opened the door the first series of shots stopped, and I walked over to see if he was out there, learning how to use a gun. And when I could see that he wasn't any place around I relaxed and went back in. I no more sat down, and then there was two or three more shots.
Stan Reichsfeld: Okay.
Jean Pugh: And - And I waited for that - I was... My son wanted to eat again, he started barbeque, and I went out where it was situated, it were just a matter of a few minutes, I've seen a vehicle pull away.
Stan Reichsfeld: Okay.
Jean Pugh: And I thought 'Thank God, they are gone for the day...'
Stan Reichsfeld: Okay.
(...)
Stan Reichsfeld: What time of day do you think it was that you heard the shots?
Jean Pugh: It was early, before noon; 'cause he was - my eldest son is the type that wants to eat. You're doing good if you put him off every two hours, and he doesn't gain weight, and he was up there for the day, and I had just fed him breakfast, and he'd come around and he'd 'Mom, I'm hungry, what you got for BBQ?' and I thought 'Oh God, I could just die cause it means I'll have to prepare four meals a day instead of five. So it was just practically after he'd finish breakfast that he wanted lunch.
Stan Reichsfeld: Okay.
Jean Pugh: So, it was ah, oh - some place between 10.30 and 11.
Stan Reichsfeld. Okay.
Jean Pugh: I have no, no, no reason to look at the clock except it was later (inaudible), so... three, five, seven, so... (inaudible)
Stan Reichsfeld: Did you know which direction the shots came from?
Jean Pugh: Oh yeah, they came from my left, from the south-west...
(...)
Jean Pugh: You can tell the difference between, ahm, an amateur and somebody learning to handle a gun, or a professional, there is a smooth rhythm to somebody that's used to handling a gun. This was definitely not a smooth rhythm. And I thought, since it was a low caliber, and since it was close to Christmas and I had seen it was not Mike, I thought: 'Oh great, daddy's got a little boy out here, teaching him how to shoot,' because it was one shot - and then it was a wait. You know, and then it was one shot - and then it was a wait. And, I counted three or four others more but like I said I was in the house and outdoors and I don't recall. I mean, that was my impression, oh great, they usually bring a box of shells, they'll be here all day. I'm gonna have to hear this pinging, you know, one at a time for hours...
Stan Reichsfeld: Okay, and from your house the location where you saw the car is about how far?
Jean Pugh: About a block and a half.
Stan Reichsfeld: About a block and a half...
Jean Pugh: I've never measured... I'm just...
Stan Reichsfeld: So, so you feel that you are hearing the shots was consistently that block and a half distance?
Jean Pugh: Oh yes, it's very easy to tell directions out here from the echoes. And that was the only gun shots that whole day. That was the only ones...
Stan Reichsfeld: The only ones on that day, okay...
(...)
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:27 pm

RimRider wrote:R: You bet.
P: And - my first thought was 'Oh God, somebody's running to shoot a gun, it must be Mike'. And so I went outdoors and time I opened the door the first series of shots stopped, and I walked over to see if he was out there, learning how to use a gun. And when I could see that he wasn't any place around I relaxed and went back in. (inaudible) sat down and then there was two or three more shots.
P: And I waited for that - was (inaudible) my son he started BBQ, and I went out where it was situated, or just a matter of a few minutes, I've seen a vehicle pull away, and I thought 'Thank God, they are gone for the day...'
R: What time of day do you think it was when you heard the shots?
P: It was early, before noon
P: So, it was ah, oh - some place between 10.30 and 11.
R. Okay.
P: I have no, no, no reason to look up the clock (inaudible), so...
R: Did you know which direction the shots came from?
P: Oh yeah, they came from my left, from the south-west...
(...)
P: You can tell the difference between, ahm, an amateur and somebody learning to handle a gun, or a professional, there is a smooth rhythm to somebody that's used to handling a gun. This was definitely not a smooth rhythm. I thought: Oh great, daddy's got a little out here, teaching him how to shoot, because it was one shot - and the it was a wait. You know, and then it was one shot - and then it was a wait. And, I counted three or four others (inaudible) but like I said I was in the house and outdoors (inaudible). I mean, that was my impression, oh great, they usually bring a box of shells, they'll be here all day. I'm gonna have to hear this pinging, you know, one at a time for hours...
R: Okay, and from your house the location where you saw the car is about how far?
P: About a block and a half.
R: About a block and a half...
P: I'm never measured... I'm just...
R: So, so you feel that you are hearing the shots was consistently that block and a half distance?
P: Oh yes, it's very easy to tell directions out here from the echoes. And that was the only gun shots that whole day. That was the only ones...
R: The only ones on that day, okay...
(...)


The information I get from this is:

There were two series of shooting, three to four bullets each time (minimum 6 bullets - maximum 8 bullets)
After the the second shooting a car was leaving
The time ist set at 10:30 (but no watch)
The shooting was done by an inexperienced shooter

But actually I do not really know what to do with these informations, even if I accepted these four statements being true. Eventually you can help me!?
Question : Do you have a comparative timetable (one of the official investigation ant the one quoted above)? Were can I find the official time table?
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby RimRider » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:56 pm

pmop57 wrote:But actually I do not really know what to do with this information, even if I accepted these four statements being true. Eventually you can help me!?
Question : Do you have a comparative timetable (one of the official investigation ant the one quoted above)? Were can I find the official time table?

Yep, I also got a little further with the transcript; I was working on it. In the case against Debra the prosecution claimed that little Christopher was shot after 1 p.m. He was allegedly taken to a pizza parlor to have his "last meal." MS. PUGH, her son, her son's friend ALAN SWANSON and neighbor CAROL GRIFFIN contradict that claim. Not only have all these four individuals heard five to seven shots (that's now much I counted), but they also stated that those were the only shots fired on that Saturday. If two series of shots were fired, with a one or two minute break in between, this incident tells us a whole new story. I'll let you come to your own conclusions here...

Oh, there's no official time table (of the prosecution), but just wait a few days for clip #4 of the website....
So far, you can take the details from Levy's closing argument: http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/mjplay/closingargument.shtml
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:49 am

Actually I am finishing reading the closing statements of prosector Levy.
In dead Levy the prosecuter is at least as manipulator and perverting the facts as Saldate the police officer. First I thought it was only Saladate who corrupted this case but Levy is at least at the same level. Additionnally he seems tobe the specialist of character assassination. He really turns every point against Debbie, he is not interested by showing evidence or proving his statements. Everything that could have in favour of her is dismissed and this odd behaviour is covered up the judges. I am more and more disgusted by these men corrupting the judicial system for the sole purpose to push up their carreers or to stay in the spotlight of their individual ambitions, and porobably the big earning behind. They don't give a damn about law and justice. They make fun of the people willing to believe and trust them, and all is done in the name of the constitution, in the name of us citizens. Where is the limit to this corrupt and untolarable behaviour of public servants?
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Jstanz » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:23 am

These questions may not really be germane to the objective here, but I'm wondering, if someone doesn't mind answering:

Was it established that Styers and Scott actually did go to the mall? Did they go to the mall before or after going to the desert? Was Christopher with them at the mall? When exactly has it been pinned down that Christopher was gone?

What is the supposed motive for any of them to want to kill Christopher?
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:57 am

Jstanz wrote:These questions may not really be germane to the objective here, but I'm wondering, if someone doesn't mind answering:

Was it established that Styers and Scott actually did go to the mall? Did they go to the mall before or after going to the desert? Was Christopher with them at the mall? When exactly has it been pinned down that Christopher was gone?

What is the supposed motive for any of them to want to kill Christopher?


- Styers went to the mall after going to the desert and informed the guard that Christopher was missing. Scott should join him later in the mall and was seen at different points in the town. That must have been around 14:00. They wanted to make the police believe that a kidnapping had occured.
-Christopher was not with them at the mall, at least there was no witness who could testify that he was with them.
-Debbie was informed shortly afterward by Styers who told her the boy was missing.

Concerning the global timelines of that day I still have a problem with.

My opinion is that, after Styers had picked up Scott they immediatly left for the desert. There was a telling that they had been eating a Pizza before, but there was no witness to confirm that and it could also not be confirmed by the public coroner that Christopher had been eating a pizza before he was shot.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby RimRider » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:45 pm

pmop57 wrote:- Styers went to the mall after going to the desert and informed the guard that Christopher was missing. Scott should join him later in the mall and was seen at different points in the town. That must have been around 14:00. They wanted to make the police believe that a kidnapping had occured.
-Christopher was not with them at the mall, at least there was no witness who could testify that he was with them.
-Debbie was informed shortly afterward by Styers who told her the boy was missing.

Concerning the global timelines of that day I still have a problem with.

My opinion is that, after Styers had picked up Scott they immediately left for the desert. There was a telling that they had been eating a Pizza before, but there was no witness to confirm that and it could also not be confirmed by the public coroner that Christopher had been eating a pizza before he was shot.

It should be added that the state's own witness, examiner Dr. Bolduc could not verify that Christopher's stomach and bowel content was indeed pizza: http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/intro/enlightenment.shtml

( ... )
Ken Ray : In connection with the examination of this child, there was found to be 150 cc's of stomach content remaining in the stomach at the time of your examination, is that right ?
Dr. Bolduc : Yes.
Ken Ray : From your experience as a doctor in this area of forensics, do you have an opinion as to when that food had been consumed ?
Dr. Bolduc : No, I really don't. There's a lot of -- as I say, a lot of factors that influence the time that food can remain in the stomach.
Ken Ray : What factors are those, sir ?
Dr. Bolduc : Well, there are quite a few. One we already mentioned is the size of the meal. Secondly, a second consideration would be the type of food. For instance, if there's fats in the food, that can slow up the emptying of the stomach. If there is vegetable matter, it takes generally longer for vegetable matter to digest than other food, such as proteins. Another factor would be just the individual themselves. Every individual will have their own rate of food digestion and passage through the digestive system.
Another thing is how much liquid was also consumed with the meal. Another consideration is how well -- you know, what consistency the food had, was it well chewed, or was it large chunks or was it diced or pureed. before eating. So that can slow up the digestive process also.
Ken Ray : You utilize -- have you ever been called upon, in connection with your participation in homicide investigations, to determine the time of death ?
Dr. Bolduc : Well, I have been asked that question, yes.
Ken Ray : And have you been able to render any opinions in that regard ?
Dr. Bolduc : Well, yes, but in the sense that I usually give a qualified, general response to that.
Ken Ray : In connection with the examination of Christopher Milke, you were not asked to perform an analysis to determine time of death, were you ?
Dr. Bolduc : Asked when ?
Ken Ray : At the time that you undertook to examine this child.
Dr. Bolduc : If I was, I don't recall at this time.
Ken Ray : Then, straightforward, did you do any type of analysis during the course of your examination or involvement with Christopher Milke to determine the time of death ?
Dr. Bolduc : No.
Ken Ray : And isn't it true that in making such determinations you would consider stomach content ?
Dr. Bolduc : Well, I'd have to know a large number of factors before I could probably make that, and even then, it would probably be just only a rough estimate, if that.
Ken Ray : You saved the contents of the stomach in this case, did you not ?
Dr. Bolduc : I saved a portion of it, not the whole content.
Ken Ray : Did you perform any analysis of the content ?
Dr. Bolduc : No, no analysis was done an the stomach, no.
Ken Ray : Did you do any type of processing of those contents to determine what food had last been eaten ?
Dr. Bolduc : Not analysis, only visual examinatian at the time of -- at the time I inspected the stomach and its content.
Ken Ray : So, then, you can't say what it was that he had eaten just before or at same point in time before he died ?
Dr. Bolduc : No, except that there was some vegetable matter present, and so that would indicate some kind af a vegetable matter was consumed.
Ken Ray : But you can't --
Dr. Bolduc : The vegetable I couldn't identify.
Ken Ray : You couldn't identify what type of vegetable ?
Dr. Bolduc : No, I couldn't. It appeared it might have been green, green-colored vegetable.
Ken Ray : And indeed, in your examinatian of the colan of this child, yau have described that as being a saft, green staal, is that correct ?
Dr. Bolduc : Yes.
Ken Ray : Similar in color to that which was found in the stomach ?
Dr. Bolduc : Well, it's really coincidental. Most stool does look that way.
Ken Ray : I see. So then you do not know what time of day or even the day, for that matter, that this child died ?
Dr. Bolduc : Well, I know from the information provided that --
Ken Ray : Do you know --
Dr. Bolduc : I don't know the time of death.
Ken Ray : Do you know from a scientific standpoint or medical standpoint what time or day or both that this child died ?
Dr. Bolduc : Well, only from the time that he was officially pronounced dead.
Ken Ray : But he was --
Dr. Bolduc : The time the body was found.
Ken Ray : He was presented to you, though, not alive, correct ?
Dr. Bolduc : That's correct.
Ken Ray : And you don't know when he got in that condition ?
Dr. Bolduc : Only based on the information that was provided to me. But from the autopsy itself, I couldn't tell the hour or date that he died, no, only whether or not it might be consistent with that.

MR. RAY : Thank you. No further questions.
( ... )

pmop57, please don't speculate or guess at this point. I promise in a few you days you'll see a satisfactory explanation for all this. I'm working on it...
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:12 pm

RimRider wrote:
pmop57 wrote:- Styers went to the mall after going to the desert and informed the guard that Christopher was missing. Scott should join him later in the mall and was seen at different points in the town. That must have been around 14:00. They wanted to make the police believe that a kidnapping had occured.
-Christopher was not with them at the mall, at least there was no witness who could testify that he was with them.
-Debbie was informed shortly afterward by Styers who told her the boy was missing.

Concerning the global timelines of that day I still have a problem with.

My opinion is that, after Styers had picked up Scott they immediately left for the desert. There was a telling that they had been eating a Pizza before, but there was no witness to confirm that and it could also not be confirmed by the public coroner that Christopher had been eating a pizza before he was shot.

It should be added that the state's own witness, examiner Dr. Bolduc could not verify that Christopher's stomach and bowel content was indeed pizza: http://www.debbiemilke.com/en/intro/enlightenment.shtml

( ... )
Ken Ray : In connection with the examination of this child, there was found to be 150 cc's of stomach content remaining in the stomach at the time of your examination, is that right ?
Dr. Bolduc : Yes.
Ken Ray : From your experience as a doctor in this area of forensics, do you have an opinion as to when that food had been consumed ?
Dr. Bolduc : No, I really don't. There's a lot of -- as I say, a lot of factors that influence the time that food can remain in the stomach.
Ken Ray : What factors are those, sir ?
Dr. Bolduc : Well, there are quite a few. One we already mentioned is the size of the meal. Secondly, a second consideration would be the type of food. For instance, if there's fats in the food, that can slow up the emptying of the stomach. If there is vegetable matter, it takes generally longer for vegetable matter to digest than other food, such as proteins. Another factor would be just the individual themselves. Every individual will have their own rate of food digestion and passage through the digestive system.
Another thing is how much liquid was also consumed with the meal. Another consideration is how well -- you know, what consistency the food had, was it well chewed, or was it large chunks or was it diced or pureed. before eating. So that can slow up the digestive process also.
Ken Ray : You utilize -- have you ever been called upon, in connection with your participation in homicide investigations, to determine the time of death ?
Dr. Bolduc : Well, I have been asked that question, yes.
Ken Ray : And have you been able to render any opinions in that regard ?
Dr. Bolduc : Well, yes, but in the sense that I usually give a qualified, general response to that.
Ken Ray : In connection with the examination of Christopher Milke, you were not asked to perform an analysis to determine time of death, were you ?
Dr. Bolduc : Asked when ?
Ken Ray : At the time that you undertook to examine this child.
Dr. Bolduc : If I was, I don't recall at this time.
Ken Ray : Then, straightforward, did you do any type of analysis during the course of your examination or involvement with Christopher Milke to determine the time of death ?
Dr. Bolduc : No.
Ken Ray : And isn't it true that in making such determinations you would consider stomach content ?
Dr. Bolduc : Well, I'd have to know a large number of factors before I could probably make that, and even then, it would probably be just only a rough estimate, if that.
Ken Ray : You saved the contents of the stomach in this case, did you not ?
Dr. Bolduc : I saved a portion of it, not the whole content.
Ken Ray : Did you perform any analysis of the content ?
Dr. Bolduc : No, no analysis was done an the stomach, no.
Ken Ray : Did you do any type of processing of those contents to determine what food had last been eaten ?
Dr. Bolduc : Not analysis, only visual examinatian at the time of -- at the time I inspected the stomach and its content.
Ken Ray : So, then, you can't say what it was that he had eaten just before or at same point in time before he died ?
Dr. Bolduc : No, except that there was some vegetable matter present, and so that would indicate some kind af a vegetable matter was consumed.
Ken Ray : But you can't --
Dr. Bolduc : The vegetable I couldn't identify.
Ken Ray : You couldn't identify what type of vegetable ?
Dr. Bolduc : No, I couldn't. It appeared it might have been green, green-colored vegetable.
Ken Ray : And indeed, in your examinatian of the colan of this child, yau have described that as being a saft, green staal, is that correct ?
Dr. Bolduc : Yes.
Ken Ray : Similar in color to that which was found in the stomach ?
Dr. Bolduc : Well, it's really coincidental. Most stool does look that way.
Ken Ray : I see. So then you do not know what time of day or even the day, for that matter, that this child died ?
Dr. Bolduc : Well, I know from the information provided that --
Ken Ray : Do you know --
Dr. Bolduc : I don't know the time of death.
Ken Ray : Do you know from a scientific standpoint or medical standpoint what time or day or both that this child died ?
Dr. Bolduc : Well, only from the time that he was officially pronounced dead.
Ken Ray : But he was --
Dr. Bolduc : The time the body was found.
Ken Ray : He was presented to you, though, not alive, correct ?
Dr. Bolduc : That's correct.
Ken Ray : And you don't know when he got in that condition ?
Dr. Bolduc : Only based on the information that was provided to me. But from the autopsy itself, I couldn't tell the hour or date that he died, no, only whether or not it might be consistent with that.

MR. RAY : Thank you. No further questions.
( ... )

pmop57, please don't speculate or guess at this point. I promise in a few you days you'll see a satisfactory explanation for all this. I'm working on it...


I am actually studying how Levy was manipulating the judges by committing well planned character assassination of Debra at the end of the trial and his interaction with Saldate.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Bruce Fischer » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:46 pm

LarryK wrote:This sounds like a worse railroad job than Amanda Knox. I wouldn't have believed that a death sentence in the United States could be obtained on so little, at least since the pre-Civil-Rights days in the South. I'm wondering why it was so late in becoming public knowledge. It's almost too late to do anything now; we just have to hope the 9th Circuit Court does its job and recognizes that she was deprived of her Miranda rights without her knowledge. If they overturn her conviction, hopefully the increasing degree of public notoriety will dissuade the state of Arizona from retrying her.

I have to add that I really don't have the time to commit to help publicize this, unfortunately.



I am amazed at some of the cases that I am reading about. Jeffrey Havard's trial started on a Tuesday morning and ended on Wednesday afternoon. The jury returned a guilty verdict in 36 minutes after listening to a trial that took less than 2 days. Havard currently sits on death row in Mississippi.

http://www.injustice-anywhere.org/JeffreyHavard.html

Many cases have been lingering for years. People fight for as long as they can but support falls off as time passes by.
"This could happen to any one of you. If you don't believe it could happen, you are either misinformed or in a state of deep denial" -- Debra Milke
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby RimRider » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:24 pm

Bruce Fischer wrote:Many cases have been lingering for years. People fight for as long as they can but support falls off as time passes by.

Not here. I believe Debra will be free with a forthcoming decision of the 9th Circuit Court.

By the way, here's the timeline of what I think most likely happened, and which matches completely with all details (as opposed to the story Noel Levy told to the jury, that Christopher was taken to the pizza place to have his 'last meal'):
9.00 - 9.30 a.m. : JIM STYERS and CHRISTOPHER left the apartment.
9.30 - 10.00 a.m. : They arrived at ROGER SCOTT'S apartment, picked him up and drove to the desert area at Lake Pleasant Road for target practicing, or trying the new gun.
10.45 - 11.00 a.m. CHRISTOPHER MILKE was shot by ROGER SCOTT, unforeseeable for JAMES STYERS and without a 'reasonable, comprehensible motive'.
11.50 a.m. : STYERS and SCOTT arrived at the crossroads of 4343 W. Glendale where ROGER SOCTT picks up a prescription at Walgreens.
12.13. p.m. : Both men decide to sit down at 'Peter Piper Pizza' to talk about how to cover the crime. The plan to claim that CHRISTOPHER was missing from Metro Center was born.
approx. 1.00 p.m. : SCOTT and STYERS leave the restaurant and separate. They agreed to meet again at Metro Center.
1.15 p.m. : ROGER SCOTT, presumably dropped off by STYERS, entered a Circle K store.
1.15 - 1.20 p.m. : ROGER SCOTT was seen by TRINI STERN at an Osco Drugs store.
1.30 - 2.00 p.m. : ROGER SCOTT had a Rum and Coke at the Arabian Room. In the meantime STYERS was on his way to Metro Center.
2.00 - 2.30 : STYERS runs around at Metro Center and subsequently talked to THOMAS 'Buddah' LYNCH.
Later on ROGER SCOTT returned to Metro Center, obviously disposing JIM STYERS' shoes at the Metro Center parking lot prior to entering the mall; that's how he knew where the shoes could be found.

Reading this, I believe the story of a 'conspiracy' needs to be re-written.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:08 am

RimRider wrote:
Bruce Fischer wrote:Many cases have been lingering for years. People fight for as long as they can but support falls off as time passes by.

Not here. I believe Debra will be free with a forthcoming decision of the 9th Circuit Court.

By the way, here's the timeline of what I think most likely happened, and which matches completely with all details (as opposed to the story Noel Levy told to the jury, that Christopher was taken to the pizza place to have his 'last meal'):
9.00 - 9.30 a.m. : JIM STYERS and CHRISTOPHER left the apartment.
9.30 - 10.00 a.m. : They arrived at ROGER SCOTT'S apartment, picked him up and drove to the desert area at Lake Pleasant Road for target practicing, or trying the new gun.
10.45 - 11.00 a.m. CHRISTOPHER MILKE was shot by ROGER SCOTT, unforeseeable for JAMES STYERS and without a 'reasonable, comprehensible motive'.
11.50 a.m. : STYERS and SCOTT arrived at the crossroads of 4343 W. Glendale where ROGER SOCTT picks up a prescription at Walgreens.
12.13. p.m. : Both men decide to sit down at 'Peter Piper Pizza' to talk about how to cover the crime. The plan to claim that CHRISTOPHER was missing from Metro Center was born.
approx. 1.00 p.m. : SCOTT and STYERS leave the restaurant and separate. They agreed to meet again at Metro Center.
1.15 p.m. : ROGER SCOTT, presumably dropped off by STYERS, entered a Circle K store.
1.15 - :1.20 p.m. : ROGER SCOTT was seen by TRINI STERN at an Osco Drugs store.
1.30 - 2.00 p.m. : ROGER SCOTT had a Rum and Coke at the Arabian Room. In the meantime STYERS was on his way to Metro Center.
2.00 - 2.30 : STYERS runs around at Metro Center and subsequently talked to THOMAS 'Buddah' LYNCH.
Later on ROGER SCOTT returned to Metro Center, obviously disposing JIM STYERS' shoes at the Metro Center parking lot prior to entering the mall; that's how he knew where the shoes could be found.

Reading this, I believe the story of a 'conspiracy' needs to be re-written.


I agree with you. This timeline fits most of the statements of different independant witnesses and also the statemetn of Debra Milke:
About 9:00 - 9:00 : Time stated by Debra Milke were Christopher left with Jim STYERS, confirmed by the phone call of Carmen SANTANA
About 9:30 - 10:00 : Time confirmed by Roger SCOTT during his interrogation
About 11:00 : The shooting time in the desert witnessed different people

YES! All this is contrary to a 'conspiray'!

And yet another point is that Jim STYERS had initially planned to also take along his own daughter and this did not happen because of not matching the planning of her mother, he should take her later in the afternoon. He probably would no have want his daughter watching the crime.

Its a further confirmation to my opinion that Debbie MILKE was never envolved in any way in the killing of her son. I am also convinced that this women was knowingly railroaded by SALDATE and LEVY. The reading of the final statement of LEVY during the trial is VERY TELLING. And there are other cases confirming the way of acting of these two individuals.

I hope you are right: Quote: I believe Debra will be free with a forthcoming decision of the 9th Circuit Court.
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby pmop57 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:18 am

MY QUESTION TO ALL OF YOU IS:

Does it actually make sense to start a campaign in favour of Debra MILKE (and for more attention to the petition) or simply wait for the issue of the decision of the 9th Circuit Court?

AND

Everybody interested should have a look at this case : It is an object lesson of justice gowing wrong!
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby RimRider » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:30 am

pmop57 wrote:Does it actually make sense to start a campaign in favour of Debra MILKE (and for more attention to the petition) or simply wait for the issue of the decision of the 9th Circuit Court?

Well, I feel that the briefs and the statements of Debra's defense lawyer Lori Voepel toward the 9th Circuit Court were real strong, and the reaction of the judges speak for themselves. I therefore think we will see the 9th Circuit Court throwing out the supposed "confession" sometime soon. That would be a first step to getting Debra free. Certainly, the state will appeal if they should lose their case, but I still doubt they would retry. Retrying would mean that they'd be upholding their claims in respect to Debbie, and I really don't see that happening in light of what unraveled so far. What we are saying here is also what the media would be told if that happened. I believe, eventually that will be realized (but then, I'm a hopeless optimist) :yay:
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Re: Debra Milke

Postby Bruce Fischer » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:11 am

We need a volunteer to take the information that has been provided on this thread to put together a case overview that we can post on Injustice-Anywhere.org. pmop57 has provided his summary above titled "The Debra Jean Milke case." If we can have someone edit his work I will create a section on the site detailing this case. It will be listed as a case of interest to hopefully bring more people to the forum to discuss the case. The main goal at this point is to try to bring more interest to the case.

RimRider and others who have studied this case have provided excellent information to work with as well.

http://www.debbiemilke.com has a great deal of information so our objective on IA'org will be to direct people to the information that is already available. IA needs an accurate detailed case overview to move forward.

I am currently working on several other projects so hopefully we can bring a group together on this thread to keep this effort moving in the right direction.
"This could happen to any one of you. If you don't believe it could happen, you are either misinformed or in a state of deep denial" -- Debra Milke
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