Debra Milke Case Discussion

Re: Debra Milke Discussion

Postby geebee2 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:25 pm

To understand US prosecutors, I think this recent Washington Post article says it all.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/opin ... -immunity/

I would pick out this paragraph:

It was an absurd argument that would have essentially rendered the “investigation” exception meaningless. The only time a prosecutor could be held liable for manufacturing evidence would be if a different prosecutor then used that evidence at trial. Nevertheless, during oral arguments, it seemed to have some resonance with at least a few of the Supreme Court justices. But most of the justices seemed skeptical, and it appeared as if the court would affirm the “investigation” exception — prosecutors who knowingly manufacture evidence that results in the conviction of an innocent person shouldn’t be shielded from lawsuits. (Read the clause after the dash again. The idea that this would even be up for discussion shows just how far down the rabbit hole we’ve fallen.)


US prosecutors see themselves as "only doing their job". And this "job" consists of suborning perjury, hiding evidence, threatening defense witnesses, manipulating the press, whatever is need to obtain a conviction from the jury, and a vote from the public at the next election. They have absolute immunity from prosecution, so provided they are careful, there is no problem carrying on in this way. This is the system. Levy is simply a typical example.
User avatar
geebee2
 
Posts: 5153
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:39 pm
Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom

Re: Back to reality...

Postby lane99 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:27 pm

JerBur1909 wrote:...Judge Kozinski...said she very well may be guilty...


He got that part right, at least. As will any sensible person familiar with the background and circumstances of this case...


JerBur1909 wrote:...Judge Kozinski...said...then again why would Styers and Scott not testify to this...


...But he's not much of a "judge" if he can't figure out why Styers wouldn't testify against Milke, no matter how guilty Styers knew she was.

And if he wants to know why Scott didn't testify about his knowledge of Milke's guilt, he need only review other rulings he's made in matters pertaining to Christopher Milke's murder. Perhaps they've slipped his mind through the onset of some form of Judicial Alzheimers.
lane99
 
Posts: 220
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:25 pm

Re: Back to reality...

Postby Alex_K » Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:24 am

lane99 wrote:
JerBur1909 wrote:...Judge Kozinski...said she very well may be guilty...


He got that part right, at least. As will any sensible person familiar with the background and circumstances of this case...


JerBur1909 wrote:...Judge Kozinski...said...then again why would Styers and Scott not testify to this...


...But he's not much of a "judge" if he can't figure out why Styers wouldn't testify against Milke, no matter how guilty Styers knew she was.

And if he wants to know why Scott didn't testify about his knowledge of Milke's guilt, he need only review other rulings he's made in matters pertaining to Christopher Milke's murder. Perhaps they've slipped his mind through the onset of some form of Judicial Alzheimers.


I think it's fair to say that Kozinski is widely considered one of America's smartest judges. He also tends to hire pretty smart clerks.
Alex_K
 
Posts: 1083
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:16 am


Re: Back to reality...

Postby Grayhawker » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:03 am

lane99 wrote:
JerBur1909 wrote:...Judge Kozinski...said she very well may be guilty...


He got that part right, at least. As will any sensible person familiar with the background and circumstances of this case...


JerBur1909 wrote:...Judge Kozinski...said...then again why would Styers and Scott not testify to this...


...But he's not much of a "judge" if he can't figure out why Styers wouldn't testify against Milke, no matter how guilty Styers knew she was.

And if he wants to know why Scott didn't testify about his knowledge of Milke's guilt, he need only review other rulings he's made in matters pertaining to Christopher Milke's murder. Perhaps they've slipped his mind through the onset of some form of Judicial Alzheimers.

When you come up with anything, ANYTHING, other than the word of a corrupt detective that Milke was involved, come back and present it in detail.
Paolo Micheli stated with regard to Amanda and Raffaele: "We do not need evidence, common sense and logic tell us that they dated each other to commit this crime."
User avatar
Grayhawker
 
Posts: 2387
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:13 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: Debra Milke Discussion

Postby geebee2 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:59 pm

The decision as to whether a retired Phoenix detective who claimed Debra Milke confessed to killing her son can invoke his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination in her retrial will now go to the Arizona Court of Appeals.

The court accepted the case Wednesday and set a hearing date for March 5. The retrial will remain on hold until that court makes a decision.


http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoe ... imony.html
User avatar
geebee2
 
Posts: 5153
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:39 pm
Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom

Re: Back to reality...

Postby JerBur1909 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:42 pm

lane99 wrote:
JerBur1909 wrote:...Judge Kozinski...said she very well may be guilty...


He got that part right, at least. As will any sensible person familiar with the background and circumstances of this case...


JerBur1909 wrote:...Judge Kozinski...said...then again why would Styers and Scott not testify to this...


...But he's not much of a "judge" if he can't figure out why Styers wouldn't testify against Milke, no matter how guilty Styers knew she was.

And if he wants to know why Scott didn't testify about his knowledge of Milke's guilt, he need only review other rulings he's made in matters pertaining to Christopher Milke's murder. Perhaps they've slipped his mind through the onset of some form of Judicial Alzheimers.


Bottom line is none of us will ever know for sure if she is guilty or not but based on the lack of evidence against her she should have never been convicted.
JerBur1909
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:54 am

Re: Back to reality...

Postby Grayhawker » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:54 am

JerBur1909 wrote:
lane99 wrote:
JerBur1909 wrote:...Judge Kozinski...said she very well may be guilty...


He got that part right, at least. As will any sensible person familiar with the background and circumstances of this case...


JerBur1909 wrote:...Judge Kozinski...said...then again why would Styers and Scott not testify to this...


...But he's not much of a "judge" if he can't figure out why Styers wouldn't testify against Milke, no matter how guilty Styers knew she was.

And if he wants to know why Scott didn't testify about his knowledge of Milke's guilt, he need only review other rulings he's made in matters pertaining to Christopher Milke's murder. Perhaps they've slipped his mind through the onset of some form of Judicial Alzheimers.


Bottom line is none of us will ever know for sure if she is guilty or not but based on the lack of evidence against her she should have never been convicted.


JerBur - I don't know if you are a murderer either. But all of the evidence for Debra points strongly to the fact that she clearly did NOT have the gun and that the two men in jail are directly responsible for the boy's death.

The question has always been was there any reason for her to ask SOMEONE else to kill the boy. ALL of the circumstantial evidence, which is all there is, say that answer is "No". The only, ONLY, thing that pointed to her as being involved was Saldate's statement that she said she did. No recording. He tossed his notes. No one else heard her say anything. She always, ALWAYS, denied she said any such thing to the most corrupt cop that county had in the past 20 some years.

I think we can with considerable amount of confidence say she did NOT ask the men to kill her son.
Paolo Micheli stated with regard to Amanda and Raffaele: "We do not need evidence, common sense and logic tell us that they dated each other to commit this crime."
User avatar
Grayhawker
 
Posts: 2387
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:13 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: Debra Milke Discussion

Postby JerBur1909 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:26 pm

Grayhawker-I am not ignorant to the facts of the case.
I understand that she did not pull the trigger and I am aware that the 2 men who are responsible for Chris' death are in prison.
Like I said.There is not and never was enough evidence to convict her.
I hope the charges are dropped soon.
I have a feeling she did not conspire to commit this crime but be that as it may,there is a little bit of circumstantial evidence that makes me scratch my head but certainly not enough to put her on death row or convict her of anything.
This has been a massive injustice.
JerBur1909
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:54 am

Re: Debra Milke Discussion

Postby roteoctober » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:26 pm

Hopefully the hearing on March 5 to decide about Saldate's right to take the fifth will hopefully set a pace for the rest of the proceedings, without a need to wait until 2015.
roteoctober
Tech Director
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:01 pm
Location: Turin - Italy

Re: Debra Milke Discussion

Postby JerBur1909 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:23 pm

Unfortunately,I think the MCAO will drag this on until the date of the trial hoping that James Styers will change his mind and testify or to try and gather witnesses that will bash Debra Milke.
Even though the MCAO must logically have questions about her guilt, they want to appear to be "tough on crime"to the majority of the public that has not dug deep in to this case that still thinks she is guilty.
JerBur1909
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:54 am

Re: Debra Milke Discussion

Postby Sarah » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:16 am

Awesome article by Lise LaSalle

Is the Trial of Debra Milke the Straw That Will Break Maricopa’s Back?
On March 26, 2014

http://www.allthingscrimeblog.com/2014/03/26/is-the-trial-of-debra-milke-the-straw-that-will-break-maricopas-back/
User avatar
Sarah
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3540
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 11:23 pm

Debra Milke Public Discussion Forum

Postby Bruce Fischer » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:44 pm

Debra Milke Public Discussion Forum
"This could happen to any one of you. If you don't believe it could happen, you are either misinformed or in a state of deep denial" -- Debra Milke
User avatar
Bruce Fischer
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 4:26 pm
Location: USA

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby Dougm » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:46 pm

The charges against Debra have been ordered to be dropped!! Success!!

Too bad it took so many years!

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2014/12/11/milke-double-jeopardy-appeals/20253845/
When you berate someone and push them and confuse them and lie to them and convince them that they're wrong you're not finding the truth.

Amanda Knox
Dougm
Moderator
 
Posts: 3189
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:00 pm

Re: Debra Milke Public Discussion Forum

Postby Dougm » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:46 pm

The charges against Debra have been ordered to be dropped!! Success!!

Too bad it took so many years!

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2014/12/11/milke-double-jeopardy-appeals/20253845/
When you berate someone and push them and confuse them and lie to them and convince them that they're wrong you're not finding the truth.

Amanda Knox
Dougm
Moderator
 
Posts: 3189
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:00 pm

Re: Debra Milke Public Discussion Forum

Postby Norm51 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:58 pm

Yes yes yes! About time.
Norm51
 
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:18 pm

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby roteoctober » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:37 pm

Here is a link to the full text of the ruling by the AZ Court of Appeals ordering the dropping of charges against Debra Milke:

http://debmi.me/1IGz66K

We cannot yet say it is definitely over, since the Maricopa County Attorney Office can still appeal to the Arizona Supreme Court. But certainly this is a big victory for Milke and for all those who fight against wrongful convictions.
roteoctober
Tech Director
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:01 pm
Location: Turin - Italy

Re: Debra Milke Public Discussion Forum

Postby roteoctober » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:38 pm

Here is a link to the full text of the ruling by the AZ Court of Appeals ordering the dropping of charges against Debra Milke:

http://debmi.me/1IGz66K

We cannot yet say it is definitely over, since the Maricopa County Attorney Office can still appeal to the Arizona Supreme Court. But certainly this is a big victory for Milke and for all those who fight against wrongful convictions.
roteoctober
Tech Director
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:01 pm
Location: Turin - Italy

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby Dougm » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:58 pm

roteoctober wrote:Here is a link to the full text of the ruling by the AZ Court of Appeals ordering the dropping of charges against Debra Milke:

http://debmi.me/1IGz66K

We cannot yet say it is definitely over, since the Maricopa County Attorney Office can still appeal to the Arizona Supreme Court. But certainly this is a big victory for Milke and for all those who fight against wrongful convictions.


You may be right, but this decision is extremely strong. The reasoning is very clear. What possible rationale the AZ Supreme Court could come up with to overturn this is beyond me.
When you berate someone and push them and confuse them and lie to them and convince them that they're wrong you're not finding the truth.

Amanda Knox
Dougm
Moderator
 
Posts: 3189
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:00 pm

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby geebee2 » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:57 pm

Dougm wrote:
roteoctober wrote:Here is a link to the full text of the ruling by the AZ Court of Appeals ordering the dropping of charges against Debra Milke:

http://debmi.me/1IGz66K

We cannot yet say it is definitely over, since the Maricopa County Attorney Office can still appeal to the Arizona Supreme Court. But certainly this is a big victory for Milke and for all those who fight against wrongful convictions.


You may be right, but this decision is extremely strong. The reasoning is very clear. What possible rationale the AZ Supreme Court could come up with to overturn this is beyond me.


I agree Doug. I think it's unlikely the Supreme Court will overturn this.
User avatar
geebee2
 
Posts: 5153
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:39 pm
Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby Dougm » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:32 am

Just saw a piece on the Milke case on CNN. The host and commentators were appalled that the prosecutor would dare to start a retrial in this case, given the Federal Court decision, Saldate's history of lies, and the lack of any other evidence against Debra. It's not online yet, but they should be repeating it on TV.
When you berate someone and push them and confuse them and lie to them and convince them that they're wrong you're not finding the truth.

Amanda Knox
Dougm
Moderator
 
Posts: 3189
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:00 pm

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby roteoctober » Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:29 am

The more the better.
roteoctober
Tech Director
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:01 pm
Location: Turin - Italy

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby Bill Williams » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:49 am

Dougm wrote:Just saw a piece on the Milke case on CNN. The host and commentators were appalled that the prosecutor would dare to start a retrial in this case, given the Federal Court decision, Saldate's history of lies, and the lack of any other evidence against Debra. It's not online yet, but they should be repeating it on TV.

Acc. to the BBC, the charges have been thrown out by an Arizona appeals court, which said she could not be tried again. What the prosecutors are doing is appealing that decision to the Arizona Supreme Court.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30443351
    “The only way I can pay back for what fate and society have handed me is to try, in minor totally useless ways, to make an angry sound against injustice.”
    Martha Gellhorn
Bill Williams
 
Posts: 7881
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby geebee2 » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:14 am

MCAO Bill Montgomery filed Petition for Review in Debra Milke case.

https://twitter.com/AZCourts/status/554761998638923776
User avatar
geebee2
 
Posts: 5153
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:39 pm
Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby Grayhawker » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:10 am

geebee2 wrote:MCAO Bill Montgomery filed Petition for Review in Debra Milke case.

https://twitter.com/AZCourts/status/554761998638923776

"Gotta protect my buddies. Their reputations are on the line!"
Paolo Micheli stated with regard to Amanda and Raffaele: "We do not need evidence, common sense and logic tell us that they dated each other to commit this crime."
User avatar
Grayhawker
 
Posts: 2387
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:13 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby pmop57 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:47 pm

GOOD AND GREAT NEWS

The TRAIL against Debra Jean Milke is over!!! She will not be retried!
Das Verfahren gegen Debra ist eingestellt. Es wird keine neue Verhandlung mehr geben.

https://www.facebook.com/237767923380/p ... 81/?type=1

No retrial for once condemned Arizona woman Debra Milke. Maricopa County Attorney's Office Special Action to the Arizona Supreme Court was denied. She spent 22 years on death row and 23 years in custody. Since the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals overturned her conviction in 2013, MCA Bill Montgomery has been trying to re-try Milke for the 1989 murder of her son Christopher. Milke is still wearing an electronic monitoring bracelet. The case was turned on its face for prosecutorial misconduct and for the misconduct of lead detective Armando Saldate who claimed Milke confessed to him in a room alone, for which he did not have it witnessed, did not write it down and did not record the supposed confession. Saldate has a history of misconduct in several death penalty cases that the state failed to disclose.
Ordered: Request for Expedited Consideration: DENIED.
Further Ordered: Motion Requesting Formal Gag Order (Capital Case) = DENIED.
Further Ordered: Petition for Review of a Special Action Decision of the Court of Appeals (Real Party State ex rel Montgomery) = DENIED.
Justice Brutinel voted to grant review. Justice Timmer did not participate in the determination of this matter, according to the Arizona Supreme Court post.

This is a case I analysed and folowed in detail. It was a case of horrible injustice, fraudulent Police investigation (Saldate should be in prison) and Prosecution (Levy should be in prison) and completely ignoring Judges (horribly incompetent).

It is a great day for Debra Milke, after 25 years stolen from her! I am very happy for her.

My congratulations to all those who believed in her innocence, who accompanied, helped her and never gave up. And this for 25 years. WOW!
pmop57
 
Posts: 4865
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:13 pm
Location: Luxembourg (Europe)

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby Sarah » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:18 pm

Court rejects 2nd bid to retry Debra Milke in son's killing.

"An Arizona woman who was freed after spending 22 years on death row for her son's killing will not be retried, a court ruled Tuesday."
.

http://ktar.com/22/1817094/Court-rejects-second-bid-to-retry-Debra-Milke-in-sons-killing

http://ktar.com/23/1816991/Court-rejects-bid-to-retry-former-Arizona-death-row-inmate


:yay: :yay: :yay:
User avatar
Sarah
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3540
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 11:23 pm

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby Sarah » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:24 pm

pmop57 wrote:This is a case I analysed and folowed in detail. It was a case of horrible injustice, fraudulent Police investigation (Saldate should be in prison) and Prosecution (Levy should be in prison) and completely ignoring Judges (horribly incompetent).

It is a great day for Debra Milke, after 25 years stolen from her! I am very happy for her.

My congratulations to all those who believed in her innocence, who accompanied, helped her and never gave up. And this for 25 years. WOW!


This is GREAT NEWS pmop!

I'm happy it is over for her. It is such a tragic case.
User avatar
Sarah
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3540
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 11:23 pm

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby roteoctober » Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:32 pm

According to a reliable source this hearing was the hearing in front of the AZ Supreme Court. So, now that the Supreme Court has denied reviewing the case, the December 2014 Appellate Court decision comes into effect. And that Court ordered to close the case. The case will be formally closed at a hearing in front of Judge Rosa Mroz in one of the next weeks.

So it will soon be over and the last step appears to be just a formality.

ETA I just saw pmop57 has already posted the AZ SC decision. :D
roteoctober
Tech Director
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:01 pm
Location: Turin - Italy

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby Flipp » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:21 pm

Debra filed a civil lawsuit against county and city officials.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/12- ... /24887019/
Flipp
 
Posts: 316
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:14 pm

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby Grayhawker » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:34 am

roteoctober wrote:According to a reliable source this hearing was the hearing in front of the AZ Supreme Court. So, now that the Supreme Court has denied reviewing the case, the December 2014 Appellate Court decision comes into effect. And that Court ordered to close the case. The case will be formally closed at a hearing in front of Judge Rosa Mroz in one of the next weeks.

So it will soon be over and the last step appears to be just a formality.

ETA I just saw pmop57 has already posted the AZ SC decision. :D

I think I saw a tweet saying it was scheuled for the 20th, tomorrow. Yes, it mentioned Judge Mroz as hearing the case.
Paolo Micheli stated with regard to Amanda and Raffaele: "We do not need evidence, common sense and logic tell us that they dated each other to commit this crime."
User avatar
Grayhawker
 
Posts: 2387
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:13 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby Grayhawker » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:35 am

Flipp wrote:Debra filed a civil lawsuit against county and city officials.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/12- ... /24887019/

Nail the county. And the lying little bastard, Saldate.
Paolo Micheli stated with regard to Amanda and Raffaele: "We do not need evidence, common sense and logic tell us that they dated each other to commit this crime."
User avatar
Grayhawker
 
Posts: 2387
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:13 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby pmop57 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:27 am

Debra Milke Retrial
Judge Rosa Mroz has dismissed the case in State v Debra Milke.
https://twitter.com/courtpio/status/580030168774774784
pmop57
 
Posts: 4865
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:13 pm
Location: Luxembourg (Europe)

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby Dougm » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:27 am

pmop57 wrote:Debra Milke Retrial
Judge Rosa Mroz has dismissed the case in State v Debra Milke.
https://twitter.com/courtpio/status/580030168774774784


Awesome!
When you berate someone and push them and confuse them and lie to them and convince them that they're wrong you're not finding the truth.

Amanda Knox
Dougm
Moderator
 
Posts: 3189
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:00 pm

Re: Debra Milke Public Discussion Forum

Postby Dougm » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:42 am

OK. NOW we can say it is definitely over!!!

From the Associated Press:

Woman who spent 22 years on death row has murder case tossed

http://news.yahoo.com/woman-spent-22-years-death-row-murder-case-154056543.html
When you berate someone and push them and confuse them and lie to them and convince them that they're wrong you're not finding the truth.

Amanda Knox
Dougm
Moderator
 
Posts: 3189
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:00 pm

Re: Debra Milke Public Discussion Forum

Postby susanna » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:38 pm

Wonderful news! This forum is a lifeline for the wrongfully convicted! Bruce, roteoctober and Dougm should be proud of themselves for the dedication they have shown to all of the people featured here. Thank you for your tireless efforts.
A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. William James
susanna
 
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:31 am
Location: New Mexico, USA

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby Grayhawker » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:27 pm

The ankle bracelet was ordered to be taken off. It is over for the state.

Now, it's Debra's turn. And Saldate is centered in her bullseye.
Paolo Micheli stated with regard to Amanda and Raffaele: "We do not need evidence, common sense and logic tell us that they dated each other to commit this crime."
User avatar
Grayhawker
 
Posts: 2387
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:13 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby roteoctober » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:33 pm

One more to move to the "Successful cases" section ... Hurrah!
roteoctober
Tech Director
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:01 pm
Location: Turin - Italy

Re: Debra Milke Public Discussion Forum

Postby roteoctober » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:42 pm

Thank you Susanna, but there is a group of longtime supporters, mainly but not exclusively based in Germany and Arizona which deserves much more praise and credit than us. We have done our best but others have spent decades of their lives to support Debra, so today the real winners, besides obviously Debra herself, are they.

I'll personally praise for zeal and dedication the one I know best, the one known here as azfrankie, who introduced me to this case and helped me to be of some help for what I could do. He was the webmaster of the DebbieMilke website where I found most of the documentation concerning the case.

The site has been down for a while for legal reasons, but now I hope it can be put online again for historical and documental reasons.

In the meantime IA will have the pleasure to move another case from the features ones to the successful ones.

Best wishes to Debra Milke for her new, finally free, life!
roteoctober
Tech Director
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:01 pm
Location: Turin - Italy

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby Sarah » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:41 pm

roteoctober wrote:One more to move to the "Successful cases" section ... Hurrah!


:coke: <Cheers> :witch:

It is so GREAT to see another case end in the right place.
I'm very happy for Debra!
User avatar
Sarah
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3540
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 11:23 pm

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby Sarah » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:44 pm

Mother who spent 22 years on death row is finally cleared of killing her four-year-old son - after she was convicted by cop with a history of lying

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z3VFPnv4QZ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3007888/Woman-spent-22-years-death-row-murder-case-tossed.html
User avatar
Sarah
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3540
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 11:23 pm

Re: Debra Milke Public Discussion Forum

Postby kermit the frog » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:07 pm

Finally free, wow!
Thanks to all fighters for justice!
je suis Charlie
User avatar
kermit the frog
 
Posts: 585
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:59 am
Location: Germany

Re: Debra Milke Advocate Discussion

Postby Bruce Fischer » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:38 pm

Great news. No compensation will ever be enough but a statement must be made in this case. The state needs to pay an amount that will never be forgotten. This must not be swept under the rug.
"This could happen to any one of you. If you don't believe it could happen, you are either misinformed or in a state of deep denial" -- Debra Milke
User avatar
Bruce Fischer
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 4:26 pm
Location: USA

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby Hans » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:26 pm

He [Raffaele] is collateral damage in the unreasonable, irresponsible, and unrelenting scapegoating of the prosecution’s grotesque caricature that is “Foxy Knoxy”
~ Amanda Knox
Hans
 
Posts: 4541
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:41 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby Sarah » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:27 pm

Debra Milke: Statement at Press conference 03/24/2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GER1LR2lnc8


Watch on youtube.com
User avatar
Sarah
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3540
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 11:23 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby Sarah » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:34 pm

User avatar
Sarah
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3540
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 11:23 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby Sarah » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:36 pm

Debra Milke's full statement on her release after 22 years on death row

http://ktar.com/22/1819247/Debra-Milkes-full-statement-on-her-release-after-22-years-on-death-row


"I had absolutely nothing to do with the brutal murder of my son, Christopher, and I did not give a confession to Mr. Saldate. I always believed this day would come. I just didn't think it would have to take 25 years, 3 months and 14 days to rectify such a blatant miscarriage of justice.

"Losing a child to murder is a devastating tragedy with an indescribable pain no parent should ever have to feel. It is the purest form of anguish imaginable that sears the soul, and the hurt never goes away, ever. The only thing equally worse is to be falsely accused of participating in your own child's death. Someone in this room may identify with the pain of the loss of a child but I'm quite sure you don't know what it feels like to be accused by the authorities contributing to it.

"My little son, Christopher, meant everything to me and I love him with all my heart. I miss him terribly and think about him every single day. He was such a sweet and affectionate child. He loved to be silly and make others laugh. Often, I hear his cute little laugh in my mind that instantly brings a smile to me as I remember the many hugs and kisses, his "I love you, mommy" whispers in my ear and the darling smile he had that sometimes made it hard for me to say no to him. He had many curiosities but one of his most favorite things to do was to pedal his Big Wheel as fast as he could, put on the brakes and spin out. He went through 2 Big Wheels until the motorized cars caught his attention. Yes, he had one of those but, thankfully, he couldn't spin out with it.

"He'd get the biggest kick out of popping the bubble I'd blow with bubble gum. The bigger the bubble, the more fun it was for him. Watching it deflate on my face caused the giggles, followed by, "blow another one, mommy!"

"I have countless memories, precious memories, of Christopher that are etched in my heart and mind. No one can ever desecrate them or take them away from me. His death is a tragedy of unspeakable magnitude to me, my family, and those who loved him. He is sorely missed but never forgotten, as he will forever remain the greatest joy and blessing in my life. I live with an abiding sense of loss, and a chunk of my heart is gone but Christopher's spirit is with me always, which is a comfort to the remaining pieces of my broken heart.

"Being falsely accused of a crime you didn't commit is also a devastating tragedy. Try to imagine that as some of you sit in judgment of me. The prosecution against me was one of malicious nature. My innocence did not matter in their pursuit of a conviction. Honoring Christopher's memory did not matter in their pursuit of justice. We, as U.S. citizens living under the same Constitution, deserve justice. Law enforcement officials are human and a badge or law degree does not make them moral. Some of them are corrupt but many are not. Seeking a conviction at any cost is unconscionable and is now what defines justice. The Chief Judge of the 9th Circuit Court perfectly states that "bad cops, and those who tolerate them, put all of us in an untenable position." Injustice does not discriminate. What happened to me can happen to anyone, as it already has hundreds of times over thus far across the country. This could happen to any one of you. If you don't believe it could happen, you're either misinformed or in a deep state of denial.

"My legal fight pales in comparison to the immense pain in my heart and soul over the cruel death of Christopher but the unfortunate encounter with Mr. Saldate, who has a long history of lying, fabricating evidence, and violating people's rights, left an indelible impression so traumatizing that I can still hear his life-shattering words.

"In closing, I am profoundly grateful to my awesome lawyers, Michael Kimerer and Lori Voepel, who lived and breathed my case for over a decade, working tirelessly to redress this injustice. I extend my deepest thanks to the numerous lawyers who helped to restore honor and justice for my son, Chris.

"I give my heartfelt thanks to Frankie for his years of relentless research and for being the voice for Chris and me. To Pat and Patti, thank you for believing in me and for your unconditional love and support. To my dear mother for sacrificing so very much and walking with me down this pain-filled road. To Paul for being an advocate of mine for many years, and to the thousands of people out there for their belief in me, kind sentiments and moral sense of justice. My heart is truly filled with enormous gratitude."
User avatar
Sarah
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3540
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 11:23 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby Sarah » Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:35 pm

Full News conference : Debra Milke and her Lawyers Speak to Press

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6ky3uGiWZM


Watch on youtube.com
User avatar
Sarah
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3540
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 11:23 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby Desert Fox » Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:23 pm

I listened to an interview of the prosecutors. . . . .He does not care about her son.
User avatar
Desert Fox
 
Posts: 2188
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:50 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby Grayhawker » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:46 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I listened to an interview of the prosecutors. . . . .He does not care about her son.


If he continues to disparage her reputation, portraying her as guilty, isn't there a line to be crossed where it becomes defamation?
Paolo Micheli stated with regard to Amanda and Raffaele: "We do not need evidence, common sense and logic tell us that they dated each other to commit this crime."
User avatar
Grayhawker
 
Posts: 2387
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:13 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby ScifiTom » Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:27 am

To everyone

Hey everyone, I am glad this case is over even it still sad of unknown even it hurts on some people are hurt of losing a love even they get lost into emotion of beliving into guilt without proof of not knowing. It just plan sicken and yesterday I watched Inside edition and the Father of the son still believe she guilt of not knowing. So here is the official link of that site!!!

http://www.insideedition.com/headlines/ ... lieves-she

It like the pain never end, even he blame her or she blame him. It just keep on going and going, even I seen this around the neighbor hood of pain is just to much of unknown!!!
TMJ

Anne Hathaway number 1 fan

Freedom 6
Brendan Dassey
Emily Defries
Nyki Kish
Kirstin B. Lobato
Michael Skakel
Dustin A. Turner
User avatar
ScifiTom
 
Posts: 4244
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:58 am
Location: Norfolk Va

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby Norm51 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:46 am

I think the relatives of the victim want to hang it on someone worse than the prosecutors do - and they stand behind the prosecutors forever. The Kerchers, for example, will never accept anything other than guilt for Amanda and Raffaele - they've been force fed it for so long there's nothing else for them. The earth is flat and that's that.
Wrongful convictions are like some kinds of cancer. You think you got it all - but it keeps coming back. Of course the longer the media can keep it going the more money they make. But that's another subject.
Norm51
 
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:18 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:38 am

Looks like the prosecutor is using the same "All the other evidence" argument which is used by the Amanda Knox guilters
User avatar
Desert Fox
 
Posts: 2188
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:50 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby erasmus44 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:33 am

Desert Fox wrote:Looks like the prosecutor is using the same "All the other evidence" argument which is used by the Amanda Knox guilters



Prosecutors seem to have an extraordinary reluctance to admit they are wrong. I chalk this up to the powerful "confirmation bias" phenomenon. I understand that there are people in the New York prosecutor's office who still think the "Central Park Five" are guilty. Once the human mind locks in on a scenario, it is very very hard to shake it.
erasmus44
 
Posts: 2902
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:10 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:44 am

erasmus44 wrote:Prosecutors seem to have an extraordinary reluctance to admit they are wrong. I chalk this up to the powerful "confirmation bias" phenomenon. I understand that there are people in the New York prosecutor's office who still think the "Central Park Five" are guilty. Once the human mind locks in on a scenario, it is very very hard to shake it.


That guy is relatively young. . . . . I would not be surprised if he about the age her son would be.
There is an issue in science where sometimes an issue has trouble gaining traction until the old guard dies off.
He doe not appear to be part of that old guard however.
User avatar
Desert Fox
 
Posts: 2188
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:50 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby Grayhawker » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:47 am

Desert Fox wrote:
erasmus44 wrote:Prosecutors seem to have an extraordinary reluctance to admit they are wrong. I chalk this up to the powerful "confirmation bias" phenomenon. I understand that there are people in the New York prosecutor's office who still think the "Central Park Five" are guilty. Once the human mind locks in on a scenario, it is very very hard to shake it.


That guy is relatively young. . . . . I would not be surprised if he about the age her son would be.
There is an issue in science where sometimes an issue has trouble gaining traction until the old guard dies off.
He doe not appear to be part of that old guard however.


I think it is more that a conviction was overturned on his watch. Pride goeth before his eventual fall if that is his moral foundation.
Paolo Micheli stated with regard to Amanda and Raffaele: "We do not need evidence, common sense and logic tell us that they dated each other to commit this crime."
User avatar
Grayhawker
 
Posts: 2387
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:13 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby erasmus44 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:55 am

What scares me about these situations is that I tend to think that the prosecutors honestly believe the acquitted defendants are guilty. I would feel much better if we had a group of intelligent prosecutors who knew that the defendants were innocent and were simply lying to the media out of self-interest. That would at least give us someplace to start in fixing the problem. But confirmation bias is so strong and the level of prosecutorial competence is so low in some parts of the country that these idiots really believe what they are saying.
erasmus44
 
Posts: 2902
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:10 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:11 pm

erasmus44 wrote:What scares me about these situations is that I tend to think that the prosecutors honestly believe the acquitted defendants are guilty. I would feel much better if we had a group of intelligent prosecutors who knew that the defendants were innocent and were simply lying to the media out of self-interest. That would at least give us someplace to start in fixing the problem. But confirmation bias is so strong and the level of prosecutorial competence is so low in some parts of the country that these idiots really believe what they are saying.


You prefer a dishonest prosecutor who will execute an innocent person for their own gain? I think a person such as you describe would be a sociopath and not one of those fuzzy definitions of sociopath either.
User avatar
Desert Fox
 
Posts: 2188
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:50 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby erasmus44 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:20 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
erasmus44 wrote:What scares me about these situations is that I tend to think that the prosecutors honestly believe the acquitted defendants are guilty. I would feel much better if we had a group of intelligent prosecutors who knew that the defendants were innocent and were simply lying to the media out of self-interest. That would at least give us someplace to start in fixing the problem. But confirmation bias is so strong and the level of prosecutorial competence is so low in some parts of the country that these idiots really believe what they are saying.


You prefer a dishonest prosecutor who will execute an innocent person for their own gain? I think a person such as you describe would be a sociopath and not one of those fuzzy definitions of sociopath either.



I really tend to prefer dishonesty to stupidity. A dishonest prosecutor will tend to be less zealous than a maniacal true believer and will be more willing to agree to a "face saving" compromise if his interests can be protected. A prosecutor who honestly thinks an innocent person is guilty will probably fight to the death for a conviction and will go the extra mile to get a conviction by falsifying evidence to "frame a guilty defendant." I think that Mignini really believes AK and RS are guilty. I think that the prosecutors in the Lobato, Camm and Faria cases really think the defendants are guilty. And they are all so dumb and blinded by confirmation bias that there is no evidence you could possibly produce that would change their minds. This is what is so dangerous.
erasmus44
 
Posts: 2902
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:10 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:33 pm

erasmus44 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
erasmus44 wrote:What scares me about these situations is that I tend to think that the prosecutors honestly believe the acquitted defendants are guilty. I would feel much better if we had a group of intelligent prosecutors who knew that the defendants were innocent and were simply lying to the media out of self-interest. That would at least give us someplace to start in fixing the problem. But confirmation bias is so strong and the level of prosecutorial competence is so low in some parts of the country that these idiots really believe what they are saying.


You prefer a dishonest prosecutor who will execute an innocent person for their own gain? I think a person such as you describe would be a sociopath and not one of those fuzzy definitions of sociopath either.


I really tend to prefer dishonesty to stupidity. A dishonest prosecutor will tend to be less zealous than a maniacal true believer and will be more willing to agree to a "face saving" compromise if his interests can be protected. A prosecutor who honestly thinks an innocent person is guilty will probably fight to the death for a conviction and will go the extra mile to get a conviction by falsifying evidence to "frame a guilty defendant." I think that Mignini really believes AK and RS are guilty. I think that the prosecutors in the Lobato, Camm and Faria cases really think the defendants are guilty. And they are all so dumb and blinded by confirmation bias that there is no evidence you could possibly produce that would change their minds. This is what is so dangerous.


Everybody believes things that are not true, it is part of being human. I don't consider them stupid just human. I though about some ways to argue this but many ways goes into politics where I think politicians are being dishonest and supporting issues only to get votes. Not sure that this is right for this forum since it tries to stay apolitical.
User avatar
Desert Fox
 
Posts: 2188
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:50 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby erasmus44 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:46 pm

Going to politics, in the 1950's in the South, there were politicians who made racist statements just to get elected and there were politicians who made racist statements because they really believed them. Who would you prefer? I think that the True Believer is always more dangerous than the opportunist. On the other hand, I always have trouble understanding prosecutors who purport to believe the defendant is guilty but who oppose DNA testing. If they are convinced the defendant is guilty, why not agree to DNA testing?
erasmus44
 
Posts: 2902
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:10 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby pmop57 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:50 pm

If you speak about the prosecutor in the Debra Milke case, Noel Levy, it was always obvious for me that he exactly knew that Saldate was a liar, that he was lying while witnessing in Court, he even helped Saldate in critical questionning situations. If you read the documents of the interrogation all this was obvious. If further you read his final speech at Court it was again clear that he used the invented story of Saldate to convince the jury. I am certain that he knew that Saldate was a liar and lying about Debra being guilty though becoming an accomplish of Saldate, he is not a iota better than Saldate, both should be in prison. Debra had been the third of his victims to be sentenced to death, actually the three cases had been overturned. This says it all.
pmop57
 
Posts: 4865
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:13 pm
Location: Luxembourg (Europe)

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:06 pm

I hate to bring it up but with the other two defendants, at least one sounds like he has mental illness. Granted, I am anti death penalty but I thought that the Supreme Court had declared that the death penalty cannot be used against those with mental illness?
User avatar
Desert Fox
 
Posts: 2188
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:50 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby pmop57 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:24 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I hate to bring it up but with the other two defendants, at least one sounds like he has mental illness. Granted, I am anti death penalty but I thought that the Supreme Court had declared that the death penalty cannot be used against those with mental illness?


Both had serious mental health problems, Scott probably the more serious. It was never clearly investigated whether it had been Scott or Styers who had shot and killed Debra's son, there had been elements pointing to Styers (Frankie, a very close observer and advocate for Debra had always opted for Styers being the killer).
The Prosecution tried to offer Scott a deal if he would become their key witness against Debra, he refused, probably not even understanding what the deal was about and how it could help his position.
pmop57
 
Posts: 4865
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:13 pm
Location: Luxembourg (Europe)

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:41 pm

pmop57 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I hate to bring it up but with the other two defendants, at least one sounds like he has mental illness. Granted, I am anti death penalty but I thought that the Supreme Court had declared that the death penalty cannot be used against those with mental illness?


Both had serious mental health problems, Scott probably the more serious. It was never clearly investigated whether it had been Scott or Styers who had shot and killed Debra's son, there had been elements pointing to Styers (Frankie, a very close observer and advocate for Debra had always opted for Styers being the killer).
The Prosecution tried to offer Scott a deal if he would become their key witness against Debra, he refused, probably not even understanding what the deal was about and how it could help his position.


Funny how often the police take advantage of such people (or try to)
Seems like in some cases defense attorneys actually will try to protect other defendants from their clients being used against others - Misskelley for example.
User avatar
Desert Fox
 
Posts: 2188
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:50 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby geebee2 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:29 am

I would argue that neither Scott nor Styers should be executed.

I strongly believe Styers was the shooter and the mastermind.

The reason execution is not appropriate is that he is a Vietnam war veteran, and his mental condition can entirely be attributed to what happened in Vietnam.

I also believe Scott was duped, and has low intelligence. He knew of Styers' intent, but "didn't believe Jim would go through with it."

So the extent of his crime was failing to stop Styers, and giving him an alibi. I believe this is why he refused a plea deal.

[ But pmpop, where you say "Frankie, a very close observer and advocate for Debra had always opted for Styers being the killer", that's wrong. His theory, the last time I heard, is that Scott was the killer. This (in my view) wrong theory has always been a big concern of mine about the case! ]
User avatar
geebee2
 
Posts: 5153
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:39 pm
Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby pmop57 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:21 am

I am sorry if I misquoted Frankie.

Concerning the death penalty I want to be very clear, I am against death penalty in whatever circumstances. I also oppose life sentences without parole or without the possibility of anticipated release and review of the individual cases.
pmop57
 
Posts: 4865
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:13 pm
Location: Luxembourg (Europe)

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:48 am

pmop57 wrote:I am sorry if I misquoted Frankie.

Concerning the death penalty I want to be very clear, I am against death penalty in whatever circumstances. I also oppose life sentences without parole or without the possibility of anticipated release and review of the individual cases.


I believe there are "exceptional" case which warrant life without parole but these are cases such as the Green River Killer.
I do see it as far too often given out however. Part of free society is risk and we have to accept that sometimes released criminals will re-offend.
User avatar
Desert Fox
 
Posts: 2188
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:50 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby pmop57 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:38 am

pmop57
 
Posts: 4865
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:13 pm
Location: Luxembourg (Europe)

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby roteoctober » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:25 am

The Arizona Supreme Court has already slammed the door on his face once, he evidently liked the experience so much that he wants to repeat it.
roteoctober
Tech Director
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:01 pm
Location: Turin - Italy

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby Desert Fox » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:25 pm

I have discussed issues of wrongful convictions with prosecuting attorneys and they try to argue that it is a few rogue prosecutors. The problem is that he would have most likely been fresh out of school when this case went to trial and was probably sitting in the sands of the Gulf during the time. That is why I do not think this is a few rogue prosecutors because these cases go through multiple hands with none arguing that there is a problem.

Let us assume she really is guilty. Even in such a case, you have no unimpeached evidence. You have to put the case to bed even if you think the defendant is guilty.
User avatar
Desert Fox
 
Posts: 2188
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:50 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby Grayhawker » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:27 am

What is up with Montgomery? Is he trying to build his own Titantic?

Did he not get the memo, the Titantic already went down, he missed the boarding call, and as much as he wishes to get on, he should thank his lucky stars he was not on board when it sunk.
Paolo Micheli stated with regard to Amanda and Raffaele: "We do not need evidence, common sense and logic tell us that they dated each other to commit this crime."
User avatar
Grayhawker
 
Posts: 2387
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:13 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: Debra Milke Case

Postby Alex_K » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:46 am

pmop57 wrote:Montgomery refuses the obvious
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/ari ... g.comments


He wants the Arizona appeals court's ruling on double jeopardy depublished so that it would only apply to the Milke case and would not create a legal precedent. Why does he think the ruling is so dangerous to prosecutors? Is there any evidence that the appeals court's view is out of step with the prevailing orthodoxy on Brady violations?
Alex_K
 
Posts: 1083
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:16 am

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby pmop57 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:23 am

There is still the problem with Prosecutor Noel Levy. I am quite certain that he knew that Armando Saldate was not credible. You clearly can see this when he was assisting Saladete being questioned at Court. He was also obviously manipulating the jury at the beginning of his pleadings and repeating lie by lie what Saldate had been inventing, he as the 'intellectual part' of the construct of the case they had been making up against Debra Milke. It was also Levy who was cited in a newspaper stating "when I looked at her eyes while in the Court room I knew that she was guilty". If Saldate is a criminal and I am certain he is than Levy is also and he should be sued.
pmop57
 
Posts: 4865
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:13 pm
Location: Luxembourg (Europe)

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby Sarah » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:56 pm

Interview with Debra Milke's attorney Michael Kimerer
#wrongfulconviction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnXZokuOujI


Watch on youtube.com
User avatar
Sarah
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3540
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 11:23 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby Sarah » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:02 pm

The American Nightmare: Debbie Milke Recounts Life on Death Row
Spiegel

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/debbie-milke-recalls-her-years-on-death-row-a-1027584.html
User avatar
Sarah
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3540
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 11:23 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby roteoctober » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:08 am

roteoctober
Tech Director
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:01 pm
Location: Turin - Italy

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby Sarah » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:36 pm




:clap: :clap: :clap:

I'm glad they didn't bow to Bill Montgomery's request.
User avatar
Sarah
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3540
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 11:23 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby geebee2 » Thu May 07, 2015 11:18 am

An article I have just been re-reading (from Febrauary 2014), it notes the misconduct in Debra Milke's case and Ray Krone ( and many allegations of misconduct in th Arias trial ).

A study by The Arizona Republic found improper behavior by prosecutors was alleged in half of all death penalties reviewed by the Arizona Supreme Court since 2002. The high court found that prosecutorial impropriety or outright misconduct had indeed occurred in nearly 40 percent of those allegations, but only twice found it rose to a level where the conviction was overturned. But other instances of misconduct do not appear among those numbers because the misconduct caused a mistrial or encouraged prosecutors to offer a plea deal to a lesser sentence to avoid mistrial.

Former Deputy Maricopa County Attorney Noel Levy, who was Arizona Prosecutor of the Year in 1990, was never sanctioned, even though he helped put Debra Milke on death row that year based on a questionable confession. He and law enforcement were successful in blocking the defense attorney’s attempt to impeach the detective who said Milke confessed.

And then two years later, Levy helped put an innocent man on death row as well. Ray Krone spent 10 years in prison before he was exonerated by DNA. Milke’s conviction and death sentence were overturned in March of this year. Courts acknowledged prosecutorial lapses in both cases and overturned the verdicts and sentences.

Montgomery also refused to divulge Levy’s personnel file “due to the best interests of justice.”

Levy told The Republic: “I just did my job, and I did it ethically. I’m fully aware of my ethical obligation to present evidence. It’s up to the jury to make a decision.”


http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... -day3.html
User avatar
geebee2
 
Posts: 5153
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:39 pm
Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby Bruce Fischer » Thu May 07, 2015 3:45 pm

geebee2 wrote:An article I have just been re-reading (from Febrauary 2014), it notes the misconduct in Debra Milke's case and Ray Krone ( and many allegations of misconduct in th Arias trial ).

A study by The Arizona Republic found improper behavior by prosecutors was alleged in half of all death penalties reviewed by the Arizona Supreme Court since 2002. The high court found that prosecutorial impropriety or outright misconduct had indeed occurred in nearly 40 percent of those allegations, but only twice found it rose to a level where the conviction was overturned. But other instances of misconduct do not appear among those numbers because the misconduct caused a mistrial or encouraged prosecutors to offer a plea deal to a lesser sentence to avoid mistrial.

Former Deputy Maricopa County Attorney Noel Levy, who was Arizona Prosecutor of the Year in 1990, was never sanctioned, even though he helped put Debra Milke on death row that year based on a questionable confession. He and law enforcement were successful in blocking the defense attorney’s attempt to impeach the detective who said Milke confessed.

And then two years later, Levy helped put an innocent man on death row as well. Ray Krone spent 10 years in prison before he was exonerated by DNA. Milke’s conviction and death sentence were overturned in March of this year. Courts acknowledged prosecutorial lapses in both cases and overturned the verdicts and sentences.

Montgomery also refused to divulge Levy’s personnel file “due to the best interests of justice.”

Levy told The Republic: “I just did my job, and I did it ethically. I’m fully aware of my ethical obligation to present evidence. It’s up to the jury to make a decision.”


http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... -day3.html


Please keep the Jodi Arias information in the Jodi Arias thread. You have a bad habit of promoting the Arias case in all the wrong places. Please show respect to each case thread.
"This could happen to any one of you. If you don't believe it could happen, you are either misinformed or in a state of deep denial" -- Debra Milke
User avatar
Bruce Fischer
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 4:26 pm
Location: USA

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby erasmus44 » Thu May 07, 2015 10:22 pm

For a state with limited Amtrak service, Arizona seems to be a place where it is pretty easy to get railroaded.
erasmus44
 
Posts: 2902
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:10 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby geebee2 » Fri May 08, 2015 4:04 am

Bruce Fischer wrote:
geebee2 wrote:An article I have just been re-reading (from Febrauary 2014), it notes the misconduct in Debra Milke's case and Ray Krone ( and many allegations of misconduct in th Arias trial ).

A study by The Arizona Republic found improper behavior by prosecutors was alleged in half of all death penalties reviewed by the Arizona Supreme Court since 2002. The high court found that prosecutorial impropriety or outright misconduct had indeed occurred in nearly 40 percent of those allegations, but only twice found it rose to a level where the conviction was overturned. But other instances of misconduct do not appear among those numbers because the misconduct caused a mistrial or encouraged prosecutors to offer a plea deal to a lesser sentence to avoid mistrial.

Former Deputy Maricopa County Attorney Noel Levy, who was Arizona Prosecutor of the Year in 1990, was never sanctioned, even though he helped put Debra Milke on death row that year based on a questionable confession. He and law enforcement were successful in blocking the defense attorney’s attempt to impeach the detective who said Milke confessed.

And then two years later, Levy helped put an innocent man on death row as well. Ray Krone spent 10 years in prison before he was exonerated by DNA. Milke’s conviction and death sentence were overturned in March of this year. Courts acknowledged prosecutorial lapses in both cases and overturned the verdicts and sentences.

Montgomery also refused to divulge Levy’s personnel file “due to the best interests of justice.”

Levy told The Republic: “I just did my job, and I did it ethically. I’m fully aware of my ethical obligation to present evidence. It’s up to the jury to make a decision.”


http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... -day3.html


Please keep the Jodi Arias information in the Jodi Arias thread. You have a bad habit of promoting the Arias case in all the wrong places. Please show respect to each case thread.


Bruce, perhaps we could have a post from prosecution misconduct generally, or specifically in Arizona?

There are many examples. not least the case of Paul Huebl, who I am sure you know was the first to know that Debra Milke's confession never happened, having interviewed her the same day.

Actually, I think there may be an old post somewhere, I will see if I can revive it.

Found it, see here : viewtopic.php?p=157945#p157945
User avatar
geebee2
 
Posts: 5153
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:39 pm
Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby pmop57 » Fri May 08, 2015 4:34 am

Levy told The Republic: “I just did my job, and I did it ethically. I’m fully aware of my ethical obligation to present evidence. It’s up to the jury to make a decision.”

This is a total absurdity coming from Noel Levy. Looking only at this final pleading in the case shows how she was manipulating the jury, no moment of ethics or morals. He invited the jury to more their gut feelings than the evidence, ..., he supported the entire story of Saldate, he assisted Saladate in difficulties when cross examined at Court ... . A coward who wants to put the entire responsibility on the jury.

In a further interview with the Press he stated that "when looking in the eyes of Debra during the trial he knew that she was guilty".

Noel Levy re-read the documents and at least be honest towards yourself. You certainly did at no moment act ethically.
pmop57
 
Posts: 4865
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:13 pm
Location: Luxembourg (Europe)

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby geebee2 » Fri May 08, 2015 5:06 am

Eric King, who was executed, was another possible victim of Saldate, see here : http://www.skepticaljuror.com/2011_03_16_archive.html

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 16, 2011

The Impending Wrongful Execution of Eric King: 3
Eric King sits on death row. The people of Arizona plan to execute him on 29 March. Though I stand mute for most executions, I fervently oppose this one. I believe Eric King may in fact be innocent of the crime for which he is to die.


He was no angel, but another dubious case.

Also here:

Not surprisingly, Eric’s case rests on the lack of testimony by a codefendant of sorts, Michael Page Jones, who was originally charged with the murders but allowed to walk free, and another dubious account by Detective Armando Saldate as to what Jones had said during a lengthy interrogation. Again, without Saldate’s testimony, there was absolutely no chance of conviction. There was no physical evidence and several witnesses from the scene were unable to identify Eric as the man that they had saw fleeing. There was only a distorted store tape that showed and a verbal description by witnesses of a sweater worn by one of the robbers. But then, days after Jones arrest came the alleged story of his girlfriend, Renee Hill, which suddenly gave the prosecutor a case.


http://arizonadeathpenaltyinjustice.yol ... c-king.php
User avatar
geebee2
 
Posts: 5153
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:39 pm
Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby pmop57 » Fri May 08, 2015 5:27 am

Not to forget that the Prosecution wanted to get a deal with Roger Scott (who acted together with Jim Styers to kill Christopher) to become the key witness against Debra Milke although Roger Scott was a mentally ill man with a very low IQ. He refused probably not even understanding what he had been asket to do!

Just another example of Noel Levy's professional integrity, ethical and moral acting. I do not see any excuse for the acting of this man. He was and remains one of the main actors knowingly (if not he is/was simply stupid) ruining the live of a young and innocent women!
pmop57
 
Posts: 4865
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:13 pm
Location: Luxembourg (Europe)

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby Bruce Fischer » Sun May 24, 2015 12:48 pm

http://www.spreaker.com/user/injusticeanywhere

Injustice Anywhere Radio: An Interview With Death Row Exoneree Debra Milke

Please tune in on Tuesday May 26 at 8 PM CDT, to listen to an in-depth interview with Debra Milke.

Please visit our show page to listen in. The show link will appear on the show page at 8 PM. If you do not see this week's show link, just refresh your page and it should appear.

All shows are available on our show page archive after they air. If you miss the live broadcast, be sure to catch the podcast at your convenience.
In this episode, we will be talking with Debra Milke about the loss of her son, her wrongful incarceration, and her eventual vindication.

On Saturday, December 2, 1989, Christopher Milke, Debra Milke’s 4 year old son, was shot to death in the desert, in an area just North of Phoenix, Arizona. It was a horrible, senseless crime. Despite little to no evidence she had anything to do with Christopher’s death, Debra Milke was convicted of his murder and sentenced to death.

The only evidence against Debra was an alleged unrecorded confession to a police officer named Armando Saldate. Debra was convicted in what amounted to be a he said she said case between Debra and a police officer. Saldate would later be exposed as a dirty cop, racking up a laundry list of misconduct throughout his career.

The revelations about Saldate would eventually lead to Debra’s release, but irreparable damage had already been done. Debra Milke spent over 24 years in prison as an innocent person. Now she looks to build a new life in a world that looks nothing like it did when she entered prison over two decades ago.
"This could happen to any one of you. If you don't believe it could happen, you are either misinformed or in a state of deep denial" -- Debra Milke
User avatar
Bruce Fischer
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 4:26 pm
Location: USA

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby Sarah » Tue May 26, 2015 10:39 am

Don't forget show is tonight.

And you can join us on the facebook group for a live chat about show as it plays:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/291062117582686/
User avatar
Sarah
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3540
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 11:23 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:13 pm

I just started listening to it and will finish it when I walk my dog tonight. . . .Why the hell did the judge give the death penalty though? Forgive me if it has already been covered.
User avatar
Desert Fox
 
Posts: 2188
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:50 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby roteoctober » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:20 pm

I think because it allegedly was a conspiracy to kill a child for money (5000 $ insurance policy).

It was all completely false and the point about the insurance policy even technically wrong, but in the context of a trial polluted by character assassination on the media (a constant element in many wrongful convictions), the outrage for such a heinous crime, assumed as existing, made the death penalty almost due, particularly in a land like Arizona, even more in Maricopa County, a place where they are not just tough but tougher if not the toughest on crime.

Unfortunately many times (have a look at the Temple Massacre case in Phoenix, for instance) they get the wrong people.
roteoctober
Tech Director
 
Posts: 2429
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:01 pm
Location: Turin - Italy

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:18 pm

roteoctober wrote:I think because it allegedly was a conspiracy to kill a child for money (5000 $ insurance policy).

It was all completely false and the point about the insurance policy even technically wrong, but in the context of a trial polluted by character assassination on the media (a constant element in many wrongful convictions), the outrage for such a heinous crime, assumed as existing, made the death penalty almost due, particularly in a land like Arizona, even more in Maricopa County, a place where they are not just tough but tougher if not the toughest on crime.

Unfortunately many times (have a look at the Temple Massacre case in Phoenix, for instance) they get the wrong people.


The judge is suppose to act as a counter to the jury and should note there really was not much to the case
User avatar
Desert Fox
 
Posts: 2188
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:50 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby pmop57 » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:37 am

Desert Fox wrote:
roteoctober wrote:I think because it allegedly was a conspiracy to kill a child for money (5000 $ insurance policy).

It was all completely false and the point about the insurance policy even technically wrong, but in the context of a trial polluted by character assassination on the media (a constant element in many wrongful convictions), the outrage for such a heinous crime, assumed as existing, made the death penalty almost due, particularly in a land like Arizona, even more in Maricopa County, a place where they are not just tough but tougher if not the toughest on crime.

Unfortunately many times (have a look at the Temple Massacre case in Phoenix, for instance) they get the wrong people.


The judge is suppose to act as a counter to the jury and should note there really was not much to the case


The Judge was completely incapapable to seriously lead the trial and entirely sided the Prosecution. She was later dismissed to further lead criminal cases.
pmop57
 
Posts: 4865
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:13 pm
Location: Luxembourg (Europe)

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:47 am

pmop57 wrote:The Judge was completely incapapable to seriously lead the trial and entirely sided the Prosecution. She was later dismissed to further lead criminal cases.


We had a similar situation with Judge Burnett. . . .He seemed to basically kick the legs out from the defense
User avatar
Desert Fox
 
Posts: 2188
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:50 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby Alex_K » Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:07 am

I don't know which thread would be the best for the link but since the 9th Circuit judge Alex Kozinski played an important part in freeing Debra Milke, here's a link to his preface to the June 2015 issue of The Georgetown Law Journal: http://georgetownlawjournal.org/files/2 ... reface.pdf. He discusses a number of false but widely held beliefs such as "eyewitnesses are credible" and "DNA never lies." Here's the first paragraph:
Although we pretend otherwise, much of what we do in the law is guesswork. For example, we like to boast that our criminal justice system is heavily tilted in favor of criminal defendants because we’d rather that ten guilty men go free than an innocent man be convicted. There is reason to doubt it, because very few criminal defendants actually go free after trial. Does this mean that many guilty men are never charged because the prosecution is daunted by its heavy burden of proof? Or is it because jurors almost always start with a strong presumption that someone wouldn’t be charged with a crime unless the police and the prosecutor were firmly convinced of his guilt? We tell ourselves and the public that it’s the former and not the latter, but we have no way of knowing. They say that any prosecutor worth his salt can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. It may be that a decent prosecutor could get a petit jury to convict a eunuch of rape.
Alex_K
 
Posts: 1083
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:16 am

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby Jude » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:13 pm

I agree that Debra Milke should never had been prosecuted using the alleged confession in light of Detective Saldate's past wrongdoings, lack of notes, etc. She is 100% legally innocent and was wronged by the system.

But I do not see why so many of you persist in believing in her actual innocence. She was by all accounts an abusive mother. She had the bullets that killed her son in her purse. She wrote to Jim Styers, the murderer of her son, while in prison and never mentioned Christopher or railed against the murder. How could that be? She knew the bullets in her purse--which she claimed she found in Syer's jean pocket the night before--were the same that killed her son. Why would she ever speak to Syers? By all accounts, Scott was a dimwit with no motive to kill Christopher and Syers was the one who took Christopher to the pizza place and then the desert and, given the shoe marks and common sense, shot the child execution style.

Have you read the account from her ex-husband where he claimed Syers lured him and Christopher out to a deserted stretch of road a few months prior to the murder? http://www.peoriatimes.com/features/fea ... f887a.html

So, I ask again, if she were innocent, why did she correspond with Syers and never accuse him or ask for answers?
If she were innocent, how would Roger Scott known about the $5000 life insurance policy?
Jude
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:01 pm

Re: Debra Milke Case Discussion

Postby Bill Williams » Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:56 am

Jude wrote:I agree that Debra Milke should never had been prosecuted using the alleged confession in light of Detective Saldate's past wrongdoings, lack of notes, etc. She is 100% legally innocent and was wronged by the system.

But I do not see why so many of you persist in believing in her actual innocence. She was by all accounts an abusive mother. She had the bullets that killed her son in her purse. She wrote to Jim Styers, the murderer of her son, while in prison and never mentioned Christopher or railed against the murder. How could that be? She knew the bullets in her purse--which she claimed she found in Syer's jean pocket the night before--were the same that killed her son. Why would she ever speak to Syers? By all accounts, Scott was a dimwit with no motive to kill Christopher and Syers was the one who took Christopher to the pizza place and then the desert and, given the shoe marks and common sense, shot the child execution style.

Have you read the account from her ex-husband where he claimed Syers lured him and Christopher out to a deserted stretch of road a few months prior to the murder? http://www.peoriatimes.com/features/fea ... f887a.html

So, I ask again, if she were innocent, why did she correspond with Syers and never accuse him or ask for answers?
If she were innocent, how would Roger Scott known about the $5000 life insurance policy?

IMNSHO, I am astonished when stuff like this is presented. On two grounds.

What possible difference to the murder charge does it make - for all the stuff above completely unrelated to the murder? Milke was not in the running for Pope, nor for mother of the year. Posts like these make it seem like we perhaps consider her guilty anyway, based on her behaviour, or based on, "by all accounts". I thought the only thing at issue was, "Dd she participate in the murder"?

Second - the post above starts with a declaration that Milke was, "100% legally innocent and was wronged by the system." but then lays out evidence that may or may not have been relevant to a jury to hear.

I do ot get it. Forget about Debra Milke for a second - why on earth would one say, "She is 100% legally innocent and was wronged by the system," but then go on to try to make a case FOR actual guilt?
    “The only way I can pay back for what fate and society have handed me is to try, in minor totally useless ways, to make an angry sound against injustice.”
    Martha Gellhorn
Bill Williams
 
Posts: 7881
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:49 pm

Previous

Return to Debra Milke Case

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest