Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

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These cases are suggested by forum members for research and information. Injustice Anywhere has not reviewed the details of each case and does not necessarily endorse any claims made within this section. Cases we currently advocate for can be viewed in the "Injustice Anywhere Featured Cases" section, located in the board index.

Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:57 pm

This is the former cop who got 260 or so years for multiple rapes. Without really thinking about it, I just assumed he was guilty. Now I am not so sure. The only forensic evidence I can think of is some DNA on Holtzclaw's zipper area of his trousers. However there was a study of DNA transfer under similar circumstances (NESFW) that indicated that secondary transfer was possible. The study was discussed by Suzanna Ryan at her commendable web site. I can turn up a link if anyone is interested. I don't believe that there was any semen or vaginal fluid brought into evidence.

http://johntv.com/daniel_holtzclaw_01/
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:05 pm

"Similarly, researchers have found that DNA can transfer through non-intimate social contact from the hands of a male individual to his penis during urination5. So, if you are a male who spends time with a female acquaintance and her DNA is later found on your penile swab, it is conceivable that you may find yourself accused of sexually assaulting her. One caveat – the study found that after three minutes of hand-holding and face touching, the only time transfer of female DNA to the penis occurred is if urination took place immediately afterward. However, the fact that the DNA could transfer from the female’s hands/face to the male’s hands and then one step further, to his penis, and be detectable at all, is a frightening realization of how sensitive the testing techniques currently in use are." http://ryanforensicdna.com/trace-dna-analysis/
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:46 pm

I read what you linked and it is at least extremely interesting.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby charlie_wilkes » Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:46 pm

I was skeptical about this case from the start. It was obvious that some of the complaining witnesses were full of shit, which made me think, ok, if they have a good case on any of these charges, why would they dilute that with allegations that are clearly nonsense?

This reminds me of Patrick Griffin, Duke Lacrosse, and Fatty Arbuckle. I think it warrants attention.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:07 pm

In general with science, a whole bunch of garbage data does not build up to anything solid no matter how much you have.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:03 am

"Defense attorney Scott Adams asked Hunt about what kind of underwear Holtzclaw wore while they dated. She said he wore form-fitting compression shorts whenever he would wear his uniform.

The defense attorney noted the type of underwear Holtzclaw wore didn't have an opening in the front. During the trial, many of the accusers have alleged Holtzclaw performed the sexual assaults through his fly while leaving his gunbelt on."
http://newsok.com/article/5464302

I am still on the fence. The first alleged victim to come forward appears to have come forward on her own, but subsequent women were approached by investigators IIUC.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby charlie_wilkes » Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:41 pm

I'm 95 percent convinced the whole thing is a hoax perpetrated by grandiose crusaders. I think this guy is innocent.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Thu May 12, 2016 9:07 pm

http://www.holtzclawtrial.com/hosting-sponsor
Mr. Holtzclaw's supporters have a website. In the comments section of an article that was skeptical of his innocence, I found the following: "You don’t get someone’s DNA on the inside of your fly from patting their clothes down." There is a study of clothing from some years ago that indicates that even unknown DNA shows up there sometimes. It seems to me that secondary DNA transfer would be sufficient to explain the DNA in this case.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby charlie_wilkes » Thu May 12, 2016 9:58 pm

Chris_Halkides wrote:http://www.holtzclawtrial.com/hosting-sponsor
Mr. Holtzclaw's supporters have a website. In the comments section of an article that was skeptical of his innocence, I found the following: "You don’t get someone’s DNA on the inside of your fly from patting their clothes down." There is a study of clothing from some years ago that indicates that even unknown DNA shows up there sometimes. It seems to me that secondary DNA transfer would be sufficient to explain the DNA in this case.


Of course. If this guy is a serial rapist, with all these supposed victims, they should have good physical evidence for at least one count. I can't see that they do. This case reeks.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Tue May 17, 2016 4:47 pm

The Oklahoman is running a series on this case. "She describes her attacker as white, between 35 and 45 years old, 5-foot-7 to 5-foot-9 inches tall, with a thick build and blond hair." Holtzclaw is now 29, is half Japanese IIRC, and has dark hair. What am I missing here?
http://www.oklahoman.com/article/549821 ... g.comments
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Alex_K » Thu May 19, 2016 6:07 am

I've read up on this case a little. It seems to me that it hinges on the testimony of the lady who started the investigation by reporting an alleged assault by a cop the morning after it supposedly happened. She was not good at recalling details, but that does not mean she invented them: why would anyone go to the trouble of making up a story and calling the cops unless one had to gain from it? I don't see her gaining anything.

Perhaps mental illness was affecting her perception of reality - but is there any evidence of that? Perhaps that lady was part of a conspiracy against the officer or the whole police department - but that sounds completely deranged.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Thu May 19, 2016 7:03 am

I have not followed this case in depth, but I think it bears watching. I think that the investigation might have gone off track in the sense of asking witnesses leading questions, in effect telegraphing them that a certain answer was expected. At least one of the witnesses told a story that was not very credible (she said that she was assaulted in a hospital: http://www.koco.com/news/witness-says-d ... l/36373212). However, that does not mean that all of the witnesses lacked credibility. My preliminary take is that some were more credible than others. In the specific example of the woman who recalled that her attacker was between 35 and 45, one possibility is that she was raped, but not by Mr. Holtzclaw.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Thu May 19, 2016 11:46 am

http://www.holtzclawtrial.com/jannie-li ... oser-look/

From what I recall, Brian Bates became involved in this case at the behest of the defense. He is apparently hosting a web site, but I have not attempted to verify the details of what he wrote. He does a good job walking through Jannie Ligons, allegedly Hoytzclaw's final victim from the defense's point of view. I am puzzled over the apparently lack of a photo line-up.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby katchglass » Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:04 am

I never believed anyone could be convicted for 263 years on so little evidence. Has BLM truly intimidated us? Appears they did here with their protesting, the jury could hear there screams in the halls and outside. Has Daniel become a scape goat for a police department and District Attorney that has been accused many times of racism, intimidation and bad rulings?
This is a young man who has no history of this behavior ever, yet the jury believed such flimsy evidence? Also, why would a Judge accept the jury's recommendation when even he had questions regarding the evidence? This is so scary, it could happen to any of us.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby dlruthenberg » Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:36 am

I am one of Daniel's supporters. I am in awe of you on this thread who came to the same conclusions that all of Daniel's supporters came to. But we can't figure out some things either. Like why Jannie came forward. Although I have a theory.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby dlruthenberg » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:06 pm

Chris_Halkides wrote:http://www.holtzclawtrial.com/jannie-ligons-closer-look/

From what I recall, Brian Bates became involved in this case at the behest of the defense. He is apparently hosting a web site, but I have not attempted to verify the details of what he wrote. He does a good job walking through Jannie Ligons, allegedly Hoytzclaw's final victim from the defense's point of view. I am puzzled over the apparently lack of a photo line-up.


The night that Jannie was pulled over, Daniel was on his way home after his night shift. She was on her way home from a friend's house. She admitted that the "friend" was male. She needed to get home before her boyfriend of 20 years got up to go to work and need their one and only car. She and her boyfriend were living with her daughter and her boyfriend and the grandchildren. Jannie also hasn't had a driver's license in many, many years. And she admitted to smoking weed and taking a sleeping pill and pain pill before she left for home. Apparently she was swerving enough that Daniel felt she needed to be stopped to see what was wrong before he went home. The next day when he went in to the station and during report, all the officers were asked if they had stopped a Jannie Ligons last night. Daniel raised his hand and said that he did. He freely admitted to stopping her. That is why there wasn't a photo line-up. They took him to be interrogated right then. Please remember that Jannie went home and then there was a story of her and her daughter driving all over to find a police man to report her sexual assault. Nothing that I know of explains why she didn't call from her home. They went to the police station and said no one was there. Then they happened to find to police cars stopped to talk to each other. They took her to the hospital for a sane test. That was completely negative. The pants that they took from Daniel at the time of the interrogation were the same ones he wore the night before. No other clothing was tested. No Ligons DNA was found on his pants.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:58 pm

I am not sure it has much to do with black lives matter. However, whether it does or does not, IMO supporters of Mr. Holtzclaw should focus on the what, not the why. It's a weak case, and I see evidence of investigator bias. The sentence is over the top.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:13 pm

dlruthenberg wrote:
Chris_Halkides wrote:http://www.holtzclawtrial.com/jannie-ligons-closer-look/

From what I recall, Brian Bates became involved in this case at the behest of the defense. He is apparently hosting a web site, but I have not attempted to verify the details of what he wrote. He does a good job walking through Jannie Ligons, allegedly Hoytzclaw's final victim from the defense's point of view. I am puzzled over the apparently lack of a photo line-up.


The night that Jannie was pulled over, Daniel was on his way home after his night shift. She was on her way home from a friend's house. She admitted that the "friend" was male. She needed to get home before her boyfriend of 20 years got up to go to work and need their one and only car. She and her boyfriend were living with her daughter and her boyfriend and the grandchildren. Jannie also hasn't had a driver's license in many, many years. And she admitted to smoking weed and taking a sleeping pill and pain pill before she left for home. Apparently she was swerving enough that Daniel felt she needed to be stopped to see what was wrong before he went home. The next day when he went in to the station and during report, all the officers were asked if they had stopped a Jannie Ligons last night. Daniel raised his hand and said that he did. He freely admitted to stopping her. That is why there wasn't a photo line-up.
SNIP

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/549821 ... g.comments
"She describes her attacker as white, between 35 and 45 years old, 5-foot-7 to 5-foot-9 inches tall, with a thick build and blond hair." That is why there should have been a line-up.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Desert Fox » Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:22 pm

I usually assume that the first statement is the most accurate.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:43 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I usually assume that the first statement is the most accurate.

I agree. Mr. Holtzclaw was in his late twenties at the time and had dark hair. I would describe him as baby-faced, meaning looking maybe 25 or so. IIRC he is also taller than the person described.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Bruce Fischer » Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:48 pm

dlruthenberg wrote:I am one of Daniel's supporters. I am in awe of you on this thread who came to the same conclusions that all of Daniel's supporters came to. But we can't figure out some things either. Like why Jannie came forward. Although I have a theory.


My interest is peaked after reading this thread. We need a lot more information. Do we have any good sources for case information at this point?
"This could happen to any one of you. If you don't believe it could happen, you are either misinformed or in a state of deep denial" -- Debra Milke
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Bruce Fischer » Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:53 pm

Chris_Halkides wrote:http://www.holtzclawtrial.com/hosting-sponsor
Mr. Holtzclaw's supporters have a website. In the comments section of an article that was skeptical of his innocence, I found the following: "You don’t get someone’s DNA on the inside of your fly from patting their clothes down." There is a study of clothing from some years ago that indicates that even unknown DNA shows up there sometimes. It seems to me that secondary DNA transfer would be sufficient to explain the DNA in this case.


I found this site as well. He does have support.

http://justicefordanielholtzclaw.com/
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:25 pm

In a police interview during their investigation, Carla Raines initially denied that she was ever a victim of sexual assault by an officer, and another accuser wasn't able to identify Holtzclaw out of a police line-up. When Sherry Ellis described her attacker to police she said he was a black man shorter than her, which doesn't fit Holtzclaw's description.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/oklahoma-city- ... d=38517467
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby dlruthenberg » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:22 am

Bruce Fischer wrote:
dlruthenberg wrote:I am one of Daniel's supporters. I am in awe of you on this thread who came to the same conclusions that all of Daniel's supporters came to. But we can't figure out some things either. Like why Jannie came forward. Although I have a theory.


My interest is peaked after reading this thread. We need a lot more information. Do we have any good sources for case information at this point?


Brian Bates was the PI for the case and continues now to support Daniel. His website www.holtzclawtrial.com is a wealth of information.

20/20 did a segment on Daniel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xzm13gOat8

We have some other pundits and podcasters also looking into his case.

Let me know what other kind of information you need. I can also get Brian Bates, Jenny Holtzclaw or Daniel's father's phone number or email addresses for you.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby dlruthenberg » Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:03 am

Chris_Halkides wrote:"Defense attorney Scott Adams asked Hunt about what kind of underwear Holtzclaw wore while they dated. She said he wore form-fitting compression shorts whenever he would wear his uniform.

The defense attorney noted the type of underwear Holtzclaw wore didn't have an opening in the front. During the trial, many of the accusers have alleged Holtzclaw performed the sexual assaults through his fly while leaving his gunbelt on."
http://newsok.com/article/5464302

I am still on the fence. The first alleged victim to come forward appears to have come forward on her own, but subsequent women were approached by investigators IIUC.


I know this is an older post. But Daniel's supporters are trying hard to get the facts of the case out for his appeal. In the interrogation video you can see what his underwear is.

Image
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby charlie_wilkes » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:58 am

Interesting piece by Michelle Malkin ...

https://www.conservativereview.com/comm ... -touch-dna

I'd like to see the program that came out of her investigation of the Holtzclaw case, but I'm not willing to pay $99 for a subscription to CRTV.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:25 pm

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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Samson » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:45 pm

From the comments after the article..
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Ranchman • 7 days ago
I lived outside of Oklahoma City for many years and can attest to the corruption of the city's investigative services. I can also attest to the severely deceitful, drug addled and manipulative capabilities of its prostitutes. They are well known for an extraordinary desire and ability to not only play the system for all it's worth, but for their willingness to destroy anyone and everyone in the process, without a shred of guilt. There are so many lies, errors, and outright bias on the part of the 2 "detectives" who supposedly investigated this case that there should be no problem getting a retrial. But, then again, after watching the Netflix documentary "Making a Murderer," nothing would surprise me. The level of absolute corruption in what is supposed to be today's American law enforcement agencies, all the way up the ladder to Washington DC, never ceases to amaze me.
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Ranchman • 7 days ago
Even when he gets a retrial and, if innocent, is found not guilty, his life is totally ruined. And that's not just because of his reputation being ruined. A rapist cop in jail with other prisoners? They won't stop until he's dead.

And you're 100% right about Michelle Malkin; I've NEVER seen her get it wrong!
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby erasmus44 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:54 pm

I am still digging into this one. I guess the only evidence against him is the she said/he said evidence and the one piece of DNA evidence.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:26 pm

The DNA is sub-source, and the identifications are problematic. The issue of what kind of shorts he wore (whether or not he always wore compression shorts) might be something to consider.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Samson » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:49 am

If Daniel was operating as policeman and social worker in good faith, we must do our best to fix this.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby erasmus44 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:55 am

Are there any pro-guilt internet sites or sources? I would really like to understand the other side to this debate. A couple of issues jump out but they may be immaterial. First, the stop that got him in trouble - I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was at a time when he was off duty and - I guess - driving home. Is this true? If so how unusual is this? Also - if he was assigned to a group focused on gangs, isn't it a little out of the strike zone for him to be picking up lone prostitutes and searching them for weed? Also - how big a deal is it to bust someone for weed? Is it really worth the time and intrusion to have them jiggle their bra, etc. in order to be sure they don't have weed. I also seem to remember reading that he didn't "call in" some of these stops and that he turned off his GPS at various times. Again, I don't know if this is true and even if it is I don't know how significant it is.
But I am thinking that maybe these deviations from expected behavior were factors in leading the detectives to be suspicious from the beginning. Otherwise, it is surprising to me that they gave so much credibility to the accusation of the first complaining witness given that he seemed to have a completely clean record.
Again, I don't know if any of this stuff is true and if it is I don't know the significance. But before piling into this one, I think it is important to understand the whole picture here.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:56 am

https://www.facebook.com/indefenseofdan ... f=NEWSFEED

Short summary: The criminal justice system is keeping its response to the appeal proceedings under tight wraps. The report seems to come from Fox News in Oklahoma where Mike Brooks is an anchor.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby erasmus44 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:28 pm

I am beginning to think that what they should have done was to investigate the one case in which there was a spontaneous accuser and not try to solicit new complaints. It is dangerous to solicit new complaints in a situation in which it is commonly known that a successful complainant will be able to receive a large civil damage award and that the authorities will support new complaints. It is almost certainly true that at least some of the new complaints they generated by aggressively soliciting complainants were demonstrably false.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:37 pm

I seem to recall that there was a lack of a photo line-up in at least one case. Sometimes a correctly executed line-up can demonstrate that an accuser is not credible, according to Gary L. Wells.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby erasmus44 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:39 pm

My understanding is that they did not even try to prosecute some of the complaints and that he was acquitted on quite a few of the ones that they prosecuted.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:10 pm

A friend of the court brief was not accepted, on the basis that it made the same arguments as the appeal itself. Hmm...
http://www.enidnews.com/oklahoma/news/c ... 29e24.html

See this link for the non-transparency issue:
http://okcfox.com/news/fox-25-investiga ... ht-to-know
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby erasmus44 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:30 am

Chris_Halkides wrote:A friend of the court brief was not accepted, on the basis that it made the same arguments as the appeal itself. Hmm...
http://www.enidnews.com/oklahoma/news/c ... 29e24.html

See this link for the non-transparency issue:
http://okcfox.com/news/fox-25-investiga ... ht-to-know



I saw the second link. I am not sure what is going on. At some point, he as a right to a public trial under the Constitution. But he may have waived it. This case keeps getting stranger and stranger.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby charlie_wilkes » Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:47 pm

erasmus44 wrote:
Chris_Halkides wrote:A friend of the court brief was not accepted, on the basis that it made the same arguments as the appeal itself. Hmm...
http://www.enidnews.com/oklahoma/news/c ... 29e24.html

See this link for the non-transparency issue:
http://okcfox.com/news/fox-25-investiga ... ht-to-know



I saw the second link. I am not sure what is going on. At some point, he as a right to a public trial under the Constitution. But he may have waived it. This case keeps getting stranger and stranger.


I bet they are in a panic. They are worried about riots if they spring him, but they're getting a lot of pressure from people who ordinarily support the criminal justice system.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:32 am

erasmus44 wrote:
Chris_Halkides wrote:A friend of the court brief was not accepted, on the basis that it made the same arguments as the appeal itself. Hmm...
http://www.enidnews.com/oklahoma/news/c ... 29e24.html

See this link for the non-transparency issue:
http://okcfox.com/news/fox-25-investiga ... ht-to-know



I saw the second link. I am not sure what is going on. At some point, he as a right to a public trial under the Constitution. But he may have waived it. This case keeps getting stranger and stranger.

Does the public have a recognized right to access, apart from the defendant's right?
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby erasmus44 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:49 pm

Chris_Halkides wrote:
erasmus44 wrote:
Chris_Halkides wrote:A friend of the court brief was not accepted, on the basis that it made the same arguments as the appeal itself. Hmm...
http://www.enidnews.com/oklahoma/news/c ... 29e24.html

See this link for the non-transparency issue:
http://okcfox.com/news/fox-25-investiga ... ht-to-know



I saw the second link. I am not sure what is going on. At some point, he as a right to a public trial under the Constitution. But he may have waived it. This case keeps getting stranger and stranger.

Does the public have a recognized right to access, apart from the defendant's right?


Like almost everything else, this varies state by state.
As I understand it - and this is not my area of expertise - a defendant has a right to a public trial. But the defendant can waive the right. The public's right to access the trial if there is such a waiver is a matter of state law and is not guaranteed by the federal Constitution.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:50 am

article "More than half a dozen forensic science experts have reviewed the DNA evidence and testimony and attempted to intervene in the case with concerns the testimony during trial fell outside current scientific knowledge. Those requests were denied by the appeals court.

“It is a problem when a scientist starts testifying beyond the realm of science and starts speculating in favor of their client whether that be the state or a private attorney,” said Brent Turvey, an internationally renowned criminologist and forensic scientist."

I have also seen this in a case on which I have been working for some time. It is disappointing that the appeals court denied the request.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Desert Fox » Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:54 am

Note thought that Brent Turvey is not well liked in the field from what I have heard
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:03 am

Not well liked in what sense?
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:48 pm

http://us.blastingnews.com/news/2017/07 ... 36857.html
"The testimony of the DNA expert has been called into question. After the Holtzclaw trial, other experts have reviewed the same DNA sample. Those outside experts found DNA that did not belong to Daniel Holtzclaw or the alleged female victim. That DNA belongs to an unknown male. There have been over half a dozen additional forensic science experts look at the DNA evidence and testimony. They have voiced their concerns about the evidence and testimony, but their reports have been denied by the court of appeals."
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Desert Fox » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:07 pm

Chris_Halkides wrote:Not well liked in what sense?


Heard Jim Clemente speak against him. On Real Crime Profile, he spoke that Brent Turvey has no actual field experience.
Look, I don't fully trust Jim Clemente because he was asked about how his research has been scientifically validated and he basically said "You just have to trust me."
Science is only science to me if it can be validated.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:28 am

"As Wright State University biology professor and president of Forensic Bioinformatics, Dr. Dan Krane, a leading DNA expert, emphasized to me, indirect “transfer is a well documented and real possibility.” Yet, no testing was conducted anywhere else on the pants to rule out this phenomenon of secondary or even tertiary transfer due to casual interaction such as a handshake or other indirect contact. (Holtzclaw had searched A.G.’s purse.) Nor were the pants fluoresced or tested for other body fluids.
"Furthermore, prosecutors failed to note the presence of at least three other sources of DNA on Holtzclaw’s pants, including an unknown male’s — a glaring omission now being raised on appeal that further bolsters the innocuous transfer theory. Prosecutor Gayland Gieger sneered at the transfer DNA phenomenon in closing arguments, again in direct contradiction to the State’s own crime lab expert, who acknowledged under oath the possibility of secondary transfer and its extensive documentation in peer-reviewed scientific journals." Malkin

https://www.conservativereview.com/arti ... ever-heard
[start quote] "We brought you leading DNA forensic expert and Wright State University professor Dan Krane's touch DNA demonstration, which showed how easily trace amounts of DNA — a billionth of a gram! — can be transferred indirectly from one person to an item to another person.

Dr. Krane also noted in my interview with him that the crime lab’s identification of multiple unknown DNA profiles from the extensive testing on Daniel’s car interior “speaks to how easily DNA can be transferred and transferred in a way that isn't necessarily associated with a crime.”

Yet, sex-crime detectives Rocky Gregory and Kim Davis repeatedly claimed in my interview with them that indirect DNA transfer “never happens,” is “hard to get,” is “very rare,” and “almost impossible.” [end quote]

Quoting Dr. Krane: "A substrate control would have been enormously helpful in terms of painting a picture about what the results actually mean. How incriminating? How suspicious are those results on the fly in the context of what we see on the rest of that article of clothing? I think that would have again given us some very important insights. If the 17-year-old's DNA was not found on any other place on the pants, but the fly, I'm thinking that lends some pretty strong support to the prosecution's theory of the case. If in contrast it was found in other places, if inside the pants pocket for instance, I think it sheds a whole different cast on the interpretation of that one evidence sample."

Dan Krane's name is well known to students of the Knox/Sollecito case.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:42 pm

"The scientists claimed Oklahoma City Police Department's forensic analyst reached a "flawed conclusion" that sexual contact best explained the DNA evidence. That analyst, after nearly 30 years with the department, retired three days after Holtzclaw filed his appeal." News9

What's odd is that the quoted testimony from the forensic technician does not sound that bad; the prosecutor's leap to calling its source vaginal fluid is completely unfounded. If this worker knew of the unknown male DNA and did not report, that would be a matter of some concern.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:45 pm

Jones S et al. "DNA transfer through nonintimate social contact," Science & Justice Volume 56, Issue 2, March 2016, Pages 90-95. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.scijus.2015.10.004
"DNA transfer was found on the waistband and outside front of underwear worn by a male following non-intimate social contact."
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:27 pm

Forensic Magazine “'During Mr. Holtzclaw’s trial, the DNA analyst drew conclusions that were inconsistent with her reported results and which may have been outside the realm of her expertise,' the experts write. 'In addition, important information regarding the DNA results from the fly area of Mr. Holtzclaw’s pants was not fully disclosed during the DNA analyst’s trial testimony.'

"The DNA experts are: Peter Gill, a British expert known for his analysis of the Amanda Knox case; Jane Goodman-Delahunty, an expert at Charles Sturt University in Australia; Suzanna Ryan, a California-based DNA scientist; Moses Schanfield, a former New York lab director now at George Washington University; George Schiro, a Mississippi-based lab director; and Brent Turvey, of the Alaska-based Forensic Criminology Institute."

The prosecution had sub-source DNA, yet it claimed that the DNA came from vaginal fluid, for which there was no evidence. The appeals court did not allow these experts to file a friend of the court brief.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby erasmus44 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:43 pm

This more and more likes like a case of confirmation bias. That doesn't mean he is innocent. But the prosecutors and investigators were not searching for the truth - they were trying to find and "develop" evidence that fit their theory. Especially in a situation like this in which they solicited complaints, this creates a huge danger of wrongful convictions.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:38 pm

Randall T. Coyne wrote, "A recently filed Open Records Act request for 15,000 pages of case-related records resulted in the release of fewer than a third — 10,000-plus pages remain withheld. Even more alarming, the city now admits it destroyed all of its DNA investigator's emails after her retirement in February. This is no way to run a criminal justice system. In 29 years of practicing and teaching criminal law in Oklahoma, I have never seen the level of sealed orders and secret, ex parte courtroom proceedings that has occurred in the Holtzclaw matter. The Court of Criminal Appeals' sealed orders even violate its own rule requiring their disclosure."
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:29 am

In the comments thread of the article directly above, there is the following:

Jonathan Manes, who runs the Civil Liberties & Transparency Clinic at SUNY Buffalo Law School, has a somewhat different take. Here is what he wrote:

"I wasn’t aware of the Holtzclaw case and it seems like exactly the kind of egregious judicial secrecy practice that we’re concerned about. It’s surprising how often this sort of thing pops up all around the country.

I don’t know the details of this case, but based on the description you’ve provided and the news accounts, it does seem that the extent of secrecy in this case is extraordinary. At a minimum, you would expect that the court would issue an order publicly explaining the scope of the sealing order and the reasons for excluding the public. A number of appellate courts have found that the First Amendment imposes these requirements. It doesn’t look like the court has done that here.

It seems there are a couple other potential legal problems here. First, courts aren’t supposed to hold secret hearings unless they notify the public in advance, so that journalists or others have an opportunity to file a motion to challenge the secrecy before the hearing happens. It’s unclear whether that happened here.

Second, the fact that defense counsel has been excluded from these proceedings raises potential Due Process concerns, particularly in a criminal case.

Third, the fact that the court is departing from its own rules regarding protective orders strikes me as less problematic in principle, but still woefully underexplained in this case. It generally is the case that a court can make an exception to its own rules of practice in a particular case. I don’t know how it works in Oklahoma, but usually court rules are not imposed by statute, but are issued by the court itself as an exercise of the court’s power to manage its own procedures. As a result, it’s not all that unusual for courts to vary the rules in a particular case when there is good reason to do so. But you’d expect that they’d at least provide a rationale for departing from those rules.

One caveat: Sometimes courts can’t fully explain the reasons for secrecy in public because doing so would itself compromise legitimately secret information. I have in mind, for example, situations involving confidential informants where the court doesn’t want to disclose information that could unmask the informant. But even in that kind of case, courts can describe the scope of the secrecy order, and they can almost always give some public explanation for secrecy. This case seems highly unusual both because of how much seems to have happened in secret, and how little public explanation has been given.

My bottom line: Even if the reasons for all this secrecy turn out to be benign, it certainly undermines public confidence in the fairness of the proceeding and probably undermines the actual quality of the proceedings too. Public scrutiny keeps judges and lawyers on their toes. It also allows members of the public to come forward if they have relevant evidence."
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby erasmus44 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:25 pm

I am going to do a little digging but I was always under the impression that our Constitution created a right to a public trial. One of the issues in the Revolution was the fact that secret trials had been used by the Colonial Administration to persecute those who resisted the burdensome taxes and regulations that the monarchy was imposing. The term, "Star Chamber proceedings", was used to refer to secret or abusive judicial or regulatory actions.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby BeK » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:50 am

Why would someone want him wrongfully convicted though? That’s my question. Did he speak out against immortal practices pertaining to the police department or something? There are police officers who get off scott free for killing people of color on a consistent basis (even if there is video footage showing the unjust killing). What made the prosecution push so hard to get this particular police officer convicted is the question I have, and why.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:45 pm

One more link that discusses the conclusions of the forensic scientists: https://www.conservativereview.com/arti ... overturned

BeK, That's an interesting question that I will try to address when I can.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:33 am

BeK wrote:Why would someone want him wrongfully convicted though? That’s my question. Did he speak out against immortal practices pertaining to the police department or something? There are police officers who get off scott free for killing people of color on a consistent basis (even if there is video footage showing the unjust killing). What made the prosecution push so hard to get this particular police officer convicted is the question I have, and why.

I remain on the fence about whether or not there was any personal animosity toward Mr. Holtzclaw. This might be a case where a narrative about sexual assault produced investigatory tunnel vision.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby erasmus44 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:40 am

I still think that there may be something to the first accusation but that many of the others are questionable (he was acquitted on some counts and there were other accusations which did not lead to prosecution so it is pretty safe to say that there were at least some false accusations). I would like to know more about police procedure, whether his behavior deviated from it, whether his pattern of stopping and searching was unusual, etc. Did they suspect him because some of these things deviated from the norm so enormously as to raise serious suspicions or did they just say - in effect - anyone who wants a shot at suing the City for $1 million and was stopped by this guy in the past 5 years should call this 800 number?
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:17 pm

http://okcfox.com/news/local/newly-unse ... ign=buffer

"Holtzclaw’s original trial attorney, Scott Adams, has nothing to do with the appeal, but spoke with FOX 25 about the case. He said it is unlike anything he has seen in his years of practice and he has yet to find an attorney or judge in Oklahoma that has ever witnessed such secrecy."
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby erasmus44 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:30 pm

Chris_Halkides wrote:http://okcfox.com/news/local/newly-unsealed-records-reveal-more-details-about-holtzclaw-appeal?utm_content=buffer06dff&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

"Holtzclaw’s original trial attorney, Scott Adams, has nothing to do with the appeal, but spoke with FOX 25 about the case. He said it is unlike anything he has seen in his years of practice and he has yet to find an attorney or judge in Oklahoma that has ever witnessed such secrecy."


This is really extraordinary and it may be going on with the consent of the defendant's attorneys. The case in general is pretty weird and this aspect is especially weird.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby charlie_wilkes » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:10 am

erasmus44 wrote:
Chris_Halkides wrote:http://okcfox.com/news/local/newly-unsealed-records-reveal-more-details-about-holtzclaw-appeal?utm_content=buffer06dff&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

"Holtzclaw’s original trial attorney, Scott Adams, has nothing to do with the appeal, but spoke with FOX 25 about the case. He said it is unlike anything he has seen in his years of practice and he has yet to find an attorney or judge in Oklahoma that has ever witnessed such secrecy."


This is really extraordinary and it may be going on with the consent of the defendant's attorneys. The case in general is pretty weird and this aspect is especially weird.


Heh. They're trying to figure out how they can throw out the conviction without setting off riots.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:21 pm

http://okcfox.com/news/fox-25-investiga ... conviction

"The City of Oklahoma City has found thousands of emails it said were deleted from the account of a now retired police lab employee. The DNA analyst, Elaine Taylor, retired earlier this year and the city said it deleted all her emails when FOX 25 requested records pertaining to her work on the Daniel Holtzclaw case."
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:22 am

Enid News Malkin, who is a conservative commentator, said people don’t have to agree with her politics to come together in support of Holtzclaw.

“Whether you’re left, right or center, people don’t have to agree with me ideologically to believe that Daniel was wronged in very grievous ways, and at the very least deserves a retrial,” Malkin said.

As someone who does not agree with Ms. Malkin on any number of things, I welcome her point in this regard.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby erasmus44 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:47 am

Chris_Halkides wrote:Enid News Malkin, who is a conservative commentator, said people don’t have to agree with her politics to come together in support of Holtzclaw.

“Whether you’re left, right or center, people don’t have to agree with me ideologically to believe that Daniel was wronged in very grievous ways, and at the very least deserves a retrial,” Malkin said.

As someone who does not agree with Ms. Malkin on any number of things, I welcome her point in this regard.


I find that specific cases and the mass incarceration issue in general cross political lines. William F. Buckley was a bid advocate of Hurricane Carter. The Koch brothers and the Cato Institute oppose mass incarceration.
What we should remind our "conservative" (really 19th century liberal) friends is that the Scalia-clone judicial appointments favored by Republicans almost always vote to tighten up the rules for post conviction relief. The hero of the right wing and the Federalist Society, Justice Scalia took the position that it was perfectly consistent with the US Constitution for a state to execute a man they knew was innocent.
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:49 pm

Conservative Review “The misuse of DNA evidence in Mr. Holtzclaw’s trial – and the failure of defense counsel to challenge it – went to the heart of the case and deprived Mr. Holtzclaw of a fair trial,” the report states. “We are concerned that forensic science mistakes were made during collection, analysis, and testimony about the DNA evidence from the fly of Mr. Holtzclaw’s uniform pants, with prosecutorial misconduct violating Mr. Holtzclaw’s rights to due process. Trial defense counsel did not effectively reveal or address these errors, in violation of the Sixth Amendment requirement for effective counsel, causing the DNA evidence to be extremely prejudicial even though it had little probative value because it could be explained by non-intimate DNA indirect transfer.”
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Re: Daniel Holtzclaw case in Oklahoma

Postby Chris_Halkides » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:05 am

http://michellemalkin.com/2017/12/05/py ... -part-one/

An interesting read. Unless the analyst in question was doing more than following Joyce Gilchrist's orders, I am not sure that I see the relevance of bringing up Gilchrist's misdeeds (which were numerous and severe). However, perhaps the entire culture of the crime lab in question is problematic. That was the case in North Carolina.
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